Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Onus]

Do you not believe the Kings want to give him $20M? Or are you simply saying they can't do it without a S&T and that by "market" you are strictly referring to teams with cap space?

I do think the kings are willing to give him 20 but the warriors want compensation.

Do you think we want to give him 20M?

I asked somewhere else if anyone has heard a single word about an actual contract that was offered to JK, either from the dubs or in one of the rumored S&T proposals. I haven't even heard what the dubs are thinking of offering, only the "JK wants 30M+" narrative that, I assume, is something the team is putting out there. But I haven't heard anything about GSW/Chi/Sac/Was/PHX/etc. willing to offer JK $___M. Has anyone heard of a number?

Even the Giddey negotiations have parameters (bulls want to give him 20, he wants 30). That's been pretty well reported. I haven't heard a word about JK getting a single offer.

20 yes, 25 that's where the hesitation starts coming in. 23 I believe allows us to use all the vet mins we want which is preferable.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Kuminga just taking the qo offer doesnt help anyone.

This doesnt look like it's going to end amicably.

Imo, best course of action for both parties is to sign a 2+1 extension, maybe 3/60-75 then look to use him as the contract to trade at the deadline

Assuming this is the path, mjd will look for a fit + a contract that coincides with steph, jimmy, and dray. So essentially 2 years max left on a deal.

So leaves us with with 10 players that are between 20-30M per year with 2 years left on their deals:

Hartenstein
Wiggins
RJ Barrett
VanFleet
Derozan
D.Hunter
Kuzma
D.Brooks
KCP
C.Johnson

Of those 10, only van Fleet is poor positional fit.
Mjd wants players who can defend. So, now Barrett, derozan, kuzma, and Johnson are out.

Now we are down to 5.
I'd love him, but no way does hartenstein get moved.

Now to 4.
Wiggins, hunter, brooks, and kcp fill an absolute need for us. A wing who can switch and shoot the 3 ball.

Who would take kuminga?
Suns for sure. Maybe the Heat? Maybe the Grizz? Definitely not the Cavs.

Now down to 3. Wiggins, Brooks, and kcp.

If mjd thinks he can get one of these 3 for kuminga at the dealine, I think both sides can come out smelling like roses. Kuminga gets paid, and steph gets some veteran help.

If we were to remain paralyzed for the whole free agency process, go through all this drama, and the end result was trading Kuminga for Dillon Brooks in October, I would definitely not say we would smell like roses. Ditto with KCP. We'd smell like something, for sure.

Pretty good consolation prize for someone the team doesn't want and for a player who doesnt want to be here.

Brooks is big and strong. He can switch 2-4 . I dont like that he thinks hes a much better offensive player than he actually is. I akso worry about the adjustment period. But he'd absolutely help in the playoffs.

Kcp cant really switch onto bigger players, but he's a good defender and can spread the floor. Again, valuable in the playoffs.

Neither guy is going to do all that and drop 20 in game, but it's what's available to us. And especially not in our budget

If jk gets his 25-30M per year and balls out, then options open up. But right now, there just isn't anything in the price range unless we take on longer contracts.

[Onus]

Kuminga just taking the qo offer doesnt help anyone.

This doesnt look like it's going to end amicably.

Imo, best course of action for both parties is to sign a 2+1 extension, maybe 3/60-75 then look to use him as the contract to trade at the deadline

Assuming this is the path, mjd will look for a fit + a contract that coincides with steph, jimmy, and dray. So essentially 2 years max left on a deal.

So leaves us with with 10 players that are between 20-30M per year with 2 years left on their deals:

Hartenstein
Wiggins
RJ Barrett
VanFleet
Derozan
D.Hunter
Kuzma
D.Brooks
KCP
C.Johnson

Of those 10, only van Fleet is poor positional fit.
Mjd wants players who can defend. So, now Barrett, derozan, kuzma, and Johnson are out.

Now we are down to 5.
I'd love him, but no way does hartenstein get moved.

Now to 4.
Wiggins, hunter, brooks, and kcp fill an absolute need for us. A wing who can switch and shoot the 3 ball.

Who would take kuminga?
Suns for sure. Maybe the Heat? Maybe the Grizz? Definitely not the Cavs.

Now down to 3. Wiggins, Brooks, and kcp.

If mjd thinks he can get one of these 3 for kuminga at the dealine, I think both sides can come out smelling like roses. Kuminga gets paid, and steph gets some veteran help.

I'm not sure that Wiggins, Brooks, or KCP are worth half a year of turmoil over Kispert, or Ayo/JSmith. This whole sign him so we can trade him at the deadline doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You sign him and you hope that he's able to play a role. The whole wait 6 months to be traded just isn't a good premise. Maybe we do end up trading him but if you're promising to trade him at the dead line then he should be gone before the season starts. The west is too good to be trying to incorporate JK for 6months and then changing how we play after the deadline to accommodate someone that isn't even in the team's future.

Really the best deal is still getting Devin Carter + Keon Ellis for JK + 1st.

[Crazy-Canuck]

I think the chances are slim he gets traded before the season starts.

And any extension jk is given, the option of being able to trade him at the deadline is a part of the equation. There's no way around that. So, I basically broke down what would be available at that price point while matching the steph, jimmy, and dray contract length.

If jk gets his bag and all of a sudden starts playing the way the team wants? That's ideal.

[Onus]

I think the chances are slim he gets traded before the season starts.

And any extension jk is given, the option of being able to trade him at the deadline is a part of the equation. There's no way around that. So, I basically broke down what would be available at that price point while matching the steph, jimmy, and dray contract length.

If jk gets his bag and all of a sudden starts playing the way the team wants? That's ideal.

I've been saying the most likely outcome is that JK signs a 2+1 he just has to come down on what he's willing to accept. He's not getting 30. If he's actually at 25 and the warriors are at 20 then we're actually close. But if he's at 30 then he's just delusional. His agent canvassed the league and that number isn't possible. The agent saying he would take 30 in a heartbeat signals he's not at 30. So basically we're just waiting on JK to realize there's no other options. And as long as Horford and Melton are willing to wait then we have nothing to really lose to wait for JK to come to this realization.

[bay2hk]

It would be ideal if warriors offer JK $48.7m over 3 years with $15m starting salary, 8% annual raise, and 3rd year player option. Sign Horford for $10.3 over 2 years starting at $5m, Sign one vet min (eg melton or Brogdan), and our 2 SRPs to the min. We can also delay signing one SRP (Tooney) by 2 weeks after the season starts and begin our roster with 13 players.

This will give us enough space for a couple of 10 days rookie min contracts during the season and end of season 15th player on the last day while staying under the first Apron.

[statsman]

It would be ideal if warriors offer JK $48.7m over 3 years with $15m starting salary, 8% annual raise, and 3rd year player option. Sign Horford for $10.3 over 2 years starting at $5m, Sign one vet min (eg melton or Brogdan), and our 2 SRPs to the min. We can also delay signing one SRP (Tooney) by 2 weeks after the season starts and begin our roster with 13 players.

This will give us enough space for a couple of 10 days rookie min contracts during the season and end of season 15th player on the last day while staying under the first Apron.

Nearly all of this has zero chance of happening, starting with staying under the 1st apron. You obviously have no idea who the owner of the Warriors is.

[vvoland]

I really don't think selling low has the same math as keeping him through the deadline at a contract in the low 20s. Is the devin carter or kispert option really going away in the first 45 games of next season? I doubt it. Barring injury or regression, of course. But same could be said for Kispert and Carter - they could get hurt or suck. Now, if we're getting a guy we're confident would close games for us, let's ship out JK today.

I think Kispert would close for us. A Curry/Kispert/Jimmy/Dray lineup gives us a lot of versatility.

I don't think Ayo or Smith play much, outside of injury. JK, almost certainly, would. Not as much as he'd like but unless we're in another race to escape the play-in, I think JK gets 6th man minutes (25+) this season.

I mean everyone is pretty much in agreement that Melton is likely to get hurt. Horford is old and will sit out plenty of games. Ayo and J Smith would be great pieces to give us depth behind those 2.

I fully believe in that 23-7 record to end the season and, barring injury, I don't think the dubs are in a fight for the 6th seed. Sure, Curry gets hurt and it's curtains but in virtually any other scenario, I think we're in the top 5, fairly safely. If that's the case, we have plenty of time of figure out if JK is the bench scorer, a starter next to the core 3, an empty calorie scorer for the deadline, or a mistake. I think the chances of getting burned by that last option are the smallest of the bunch.

Thinking back on that 23-7 record, it took a lot of curry heroics to get there with some jimmy heroics thrown in as well. Then once JK got added things kind of fell off. I do think with Horford and Melton we would be better as those are upgrades, but how many games will Melton and Horford be available?

I don't think any team was truly safe in the west outside of the Thunder. Lakers/Denver/Clippers were all just 1 game out of the play in. Unless you think we're going to be as good as the thunder then no there's not going to be plenty of time to figure out what JK's role is going to be. Especially since the Rockets, Lakers, Nuggets, Clippers also all got better as well. We don't want to have a mad dash down the stretch of the regular season to avoid the play ins again.

I don't think Kispert closes. We have Steph, Jimmy, Dray, and, if healthy, Horford as the closing 4. After that, Podz is my odds on favorite, considering how much Steve loves him. If Horford is in, Kispert's shooting is not as necessary. Same with Post. I'm not sure Kispert is better than Buddy, who was very good for us last year.

Ayo/Jsmith would have trouble taking minutes from Podz/Post, respectively. JK, on the other hand, barring something weird, would be locked in as the backup 4 and spot starter.

If it's 'unsalvageable' then yes, take whatever is being offered. I don't think that's the case and would rather gamble on JK finding a role than hoping DC, Ayo, JS would actually earn one here.

I hear about the comp in the west next year. I don't believe in the lakers or clippers but am open to being wrong. To me, there is a clear top 6 in the west:
Tier 1 - OKC
Tier 2 - Hou
Tier 3 - LAC, Minny, GSW, Den

I think that'll be the top 6 with a real gap to the play-in teams:

Tier 4 - LAL, DAL, SAS, Mem
Tier 5 - Por, NOP,

Lottery bound - Uta, Sac, Phx

I'm not saying we'll have all the time in the world to figure it out. I just don't think we'll be under .500 in mid jan like we were the last two seasons and fighting for 2 months to get out of the play-in. Barring injury, of course.

[statsman]

Read on Twitter

Sounds like an agent getting unhinged after losing alot of money betting on his clients basketball games.

His only other client besides kuminga is......



Rozier.

What I don't hear from this agent is what *did* the Warriors offer. What if the Warriors offered $25M to start with 8% raises. That's 25/27/29/31/33, 5/145, or $29M/yr. Was that the offer? Because it *is* less than $30M. It would make sense because it would have been just a touch lower than "Punch-Face" Draymond.

We have no real numbers to work with. Well, at least those of us in the public don't. Negotiation by social media is rather unpleasant to observe.

[azwfan]

Read on Twitter

Sounds like an agent getting unhinged after losing alot of money betting on his clients basketball games.

His only other client besides kuminga is......



Rozier.

What I don't hear from this agent is what *did* the Warriors offer. What if the Warriors offered $25M to start with 8% raises. That's 25/27/29/31/33, 5/145, or $29M/yr. Was that the offer? Because it *is* less than $30M. It would make sense because it would have been just a touch lower than punch-face Draymond.
We have no real numbers to work with. Well, at least those of us in the public don't. Negotiation by social media is rather unpleasant to observe.

Yeah, what I wonder about is who is leaking the information.

Seems like it would be obvious that someone within the Warriors organization leaked the contract offer at $30m/year last year (whether true or not). It doesn't make JK look good, and it makes the organization look good for trying to resign him.

How much money JK is looking for... that also sounds like its coming from the organization (or possibly other organizations?). Doesn't seem like the agent gets anything out of leaking publicly how much money he is looking for (when its possible to sign for less) while again the organization can gauge public sentiment and possible put the fans in their corner. We even see it here... where some people are saying JK is holding the team hostage and what not, when the reality is the other way around. The team did not need to offer the QO and he could have been a UFA. It is the team's right under the CBA to do what they did, but make no mistake, the team put themselves in this situation.

[Onus]

I don't think Kispert closes. We have Steph, Jimmy, Dray, and, if healthy, Horford as the closing 4. After that, Podz is my odds on favorite, considering how much Steve loves him. If Horford is in, Kispert's shooting is not as necessary. Same with Post. I'm not sure Kispert is better than Buddy, who was very good for us last year.

I don't think Horford is a sure fire closer. That would be matchup dependent. Horford and Kispert are not in the same stratosphere as shooters. I think one of Buddy or Kispert will be closing and really they might be able to close together. That could be very hard to defend Curry/Buddy/Kispert/JB/Dray may be our best lineup. Unless Moody takes a step up. Horford would close based on matchups like Jokic.

Ayo/Jsmith would have trouble taking minutes from Podz/Post, respectively. JK, on the other hand, barring something weird, would be locked in as the backup 4 and spot starter.

Think Ayo would be taking over GP2's role in this scenario. He played some 4 in chicago and has the athleticism/length to do it. Jsmith is better than Post and would likely supplant him moving post down. Ayo and JSmith is the worst haul for sure since they're all just back up players, but does give us depth just in case, which would be really good for the 82 game grind.

I hear about the comp in the west next year. I don't believe in the lakers or clippers but am open to being wrong. To me, there is a clear top 6 in the west:
Tier 1 - OKC
Tier 2 - Hou
Tier 3 - LAC, Minny, GSW, Den

I think that'll be the top 6 with a real gap to the play-in teams:

Tier 4 - LAL, DAL, SAS, Mem
Tier 5 - Por, NOP,

Lottery bound - Uta, Sac, Phx

I'm not saying we'll have all the time in the world to figure it out. I just don't think we'll be under .500 in mid jan like we were the last two seasons and fighting for 2 months to get out of the play-in. Barring injury, of course.

Think you're down playing the Lakers. Ayton is better than Jaxson Hayes in every form. Smart is better than Jonathan Goodwin / Gabe Vincent. Luka and Lebron are going to be really hard for some teams to defend, they will be in play for the top 6.

That's still 7 teams that will have at least 45 wins fighting for 6 spots.

[vvoland]

Read on Twitter

Sounds like an agent getting unhinged after losing alot of money betting on his clients basketball games.

His only other client besides kuminga is......



Rozier.

What I don't hear from this agent is what *did* the Warriors offer. What if the Warriors offered $25M to start with 8% raises. That's 25/27/29/31/33, 5/145, or $29M/yr. Was that the offer? Because it *is* less than $30M. It would make sense because it would have been just a touch lower than "Punch-Face" Draymond.

We have no real numbers to work with. Well, at least those of us in the public don't. Negotiation by social media is rather unpleasant to observe.

I agree, it's weird there's been so little reporting around those actual details. The numbers you mention are probably spot on, maybe a few M lower while still hitting the 30M mark in the last year so they can say it was a 30M/yr offer. Don't ask me who is "they" in this case.

How many of those years were team options, that's the real question. If it 2 of them were, it was really a 3 year deal for 27/yr AAV. Still should have taken it but that's very different than the 5/150 that was rumored and now taken as gospel.

I can see why the agent is responding but it's not a good look. JK and his team is getting murdered with everyone convinced they turned down a guaranteed 150M last summer. I have serious doubts about that number.

[xdrta+]

How many of those years were team options, that's the real question.

A contract can only contain one option year.

[vvoland]

Think you're down playing the Lakers. Ayton is better than Jaxson Hayes in every form. Smart is better than Jonathan Goodwin / Gabe Vincent. Luka and Lebron are going to be really hard for some teams to defend, they will be in play for the top 6.

That's still 7 teams that will have at least 45 wins fighting for 6 spots.

I may be wrong about kispert but why give up JK for a guy that's duplicative of buddy at 2x the contract? I don't see kerr playing both very often. Again, are any of these trades disappearing by Feb if JK doesn't find a role? or in the summer if he does find a role but not the one Kerr wants? Why rush? I don't think there's anything toxic between JK and the team. Mostly, just on the internets, as per usual.

I think Ayo would be fighting moody for that role.

Ayton will be a net negative for the lakers. He's not a cancer but i don't want him near this roster and we could reaalllly use his skillset. I don't think Lebron is 100% bought in for this season in LA. JJ dealing with Ayton and Lebron and Luka and LA expectations might be a challenge. We'll see if skinny luka is real, this time. Maybe it's my LA hate but I don't believe in either la-la team.

And out of those top 6, 4 have serious weaknesses. LAC and GSW are older than dirt. Den is still shallow and missing some upside. Minny has no PG or depth. Hou and OKC can withstand injuries but even Hou is in trouble if KD goes down. I don't see a ton of upside from the Dal, Mem, LAL group. Mayyyybe they'll be in the race to 50 wins. I would bet against it.

This is all just hot gas, of course. Who really knows. I'm just saying I expect those Tiers to be fairly sequestered - 60+wins for OKC, 55+ for Hou, 50/52 wins for tier 3 and 46 or less for tier 4. 4 games isn't a huge gap but considering the last 3/4 seasons, it's a chasm.

[vvoland]

How many of those years were team options, that's the real question.

A contract can only contain one option year.

are there partial guarantees that can function as a 2nd/3rd option year? I just looked up Buddy. He's 3M gtd in 26-27 and then a PO in 27-28. I assume that PO could have been TO. That's essentially two TOs, right?

edit #2: Buddy's PO is only guaranteed 3M if exercised before the draft? I'm having trouble understanding it. Can they cut him before the draft AND before he exercises the PO? Spotrac reads:

2027-28: Player Option (deadline 6/29/27), $3,136,364 guaranteed (if option exercised, fully guaranteed one day after 2027 NBA Draft

[xdrta+]

How many of those years were team options, that's the real question.

A contract can only contain one option year.

are there partial guarantees that can function as a 2nd/3rd option year? I just looked up Buddy. He's 3M gtd in 26-27 and then a PO in 27-28. I assume that PO could have been TO. That's essentially two TOs, right?

edit #2: Buddy's PO is only guaranteed 3M if exercised before the draft? I'm having trouble understanding it. Can they cut him before the draft AND before he exercises the PO? Spotrac reads:

2027-28: Player Option (deadline 6/29/27), $3,136,364 guaranteed (if option exercised, fully guaranteed one day after 2027 NBA Draft

Options and guarantees are treated differently but can be combined. For instance, Santos had a club option and a partial guarantee this year. The club option was picked up on 6/29 and he's now on a $225k partial guarantee with a full guarantee due on 1/10/26.

[Onus]

I may be wrong about kispert but why give up JK for a guy that's duplicative of buddy at 2x the contract? I don't see kerr playing both very often. Again, are any of these trades disappearing by Feb if JK doesn't find a role? or in the summer if he does find a role but not the one Kerr wants? Why rush? I don't think there's anything toxic between JK and the team. Mostly, just on the internets, as per usual.

Because we've seen how having 2 players running around screens and being dead eye shooters works. These trades don't work at the dead line since then these trades have to add more stuff to get to JK's number. So they can't even be the same. Let alone if you make these trades at the dead line you only get 2 months to integrate them into the team which isn't ideal.

But really it's dependent on JK not wanting to be here, which relies on Siegel saying JK doesn't want to be here. If he's actually said that to the Warriors then just get the best that you can. If he hasn't said that then, like I've said since the beginning he will sign a 2+1.

[xdrta+]

edit #2: Buddy's PO is only guaranteed 3M if exercised before the draft? I'm having trouble understanding it. Can they cut him before the draft AND before he exercises the PO? Spotrac reads:

2027-28: Player Option (deadline 6/29/27), $3,136,364 guaranteed (if option exercised, fully guaranteed one day after 2027 NBA Draft

This situation is specifically addressed in the CBA. In case the player is waived before the PO is exercised, the contract must contain either that the option year is paid or the option year is not paid. One of two clauses that are spelled out in the CBA must be included in the contract.

As far as I know there's no way to know which applies to Buddy.

[statsman]

There are two competing conflicts right now. Kuminga wants a certain amount/year, and the Warriors want a certain amount of assets in return. I don't think teams around the league are interested in Kuminga at the "advertised" amount, and maybe not even close to that. There may be teams willing to offer $20M/yr average, but I don't think Kuminga and his camp are willing to sign for that (at least for now).

I don't think teams want to meet the Warriors' demands for low-salary talented young player(s) and a first round pick in return for a S&T. They also know the Warriors are being held over a barrel right now, between Kuminga's BYC value in a S&T, and fighting to stay below the 2nd apron (which would be a hard cap if Horford is signed to the TPMLE).

[vvoland]

I may be wrong about kispert but why give up JK for a guy that's duplicative of buddy at 2x the contract? I don't see kerr playing both very often. Again, are any of these trades disappearing by Feb if JK doesn't find a role? or in the summer if he does find a role but not the one Kerr wants? Why rush? I don't think there's anything toxic between JK and the team. Mostly, just on the internets, as per usual.

Because we've seen how having 2 players running around screens and being dead eye shooters works. These trades don't work at the dead line since then these trades have to add more stuff to get to JK's number. So they can't even be the same. Let alone if you make these trades at the dead line you only get 2 months to integrate them into the team which isn't ideal.

But really it's dependent on JK not wanting to be here, which relies on Siegel saying JK doesn't want to be here. If he's actually said that to the Warriors then just get the best that you can. If he hasn't said that then, like I've said since the beginning he will sign a 2+1.

100% agree.

The exact trades you mention won't work at the deadline but removing the BYC will likely make trades easier, not harder. Including for the players we're currently discussing. I'm just saying there's a non 0 chance that JK doesn't really take a huge leap for Kerr but puts up good numbers for a winning team and we can flip him + 1 more asset at the deadline for Trey Murphy. Not the goal, just saying there's a non-0 chance of that happening. Between that narrow path (not just Trey, but a player like that) and the even narrower one where he earns Kerr's trust and closes games, I'll take my chance for games 1 - 50.

Like you said, if he said it's not a workable situation and he is going to play the JP3 his last year here, sure, ship him out for a carton of expired milk.