Bucks News, Transactions, Trade Ideas

[Frank Nova]

How desperate is Toronto to really unload Barrett? Would they attach a 1st or Jakobe Walter in a deal to save themselves money? I’d be all over that if I’m Horst but unfortunately he probably views Kuzma too highly.

Wait. You think if Toronto called and offered a first and Barrett that Horst would decline?

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

[M-C-G]

How desperate is Toronto to really unload Barrett? Would they attach a 1st or Jakobe Walter in a deal to save themselves money? I’d be all over that if I’m Horst but unfortunately he probably views Kuzma too highly.

Wait. You think if Toronto called and offered a first and Barrett that Horst would decline?

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Yeah I have a tough time with that but I guess it depends on what you think of Horst/Doc

[Frank Nova]

Wait. You think if Toronto called and offered a first and Barrett that Horst would decline?

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Yeah I have a tough time with that but I guess it depends on what you think of Horst/Doc

Not much of a fan of Doc but he seems to have positive influence over the group of players I like so that’s fine. I just worry about Horst and Doc overvaluing someone like Kuzma who they clearly have a vision for on the team. I’m not sold Doc benching Kuzma during the Indiana series is indicative of what the approach is to start this season. If Kuzma is on the team, he’ll be given ample opportunity to earn his keep and I worry we’ll end up digging ourselves out of that hole. Time will tell I suppose. And if Barrett’s value is that low, I could see Horst balk at a potential deal even if the sweetener came from Toronto. It’s really not that difficult to picture imo.

[M-C-G]

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Yeah I have a tough time with that but I guess it depends on what you think of Horst/Doc

Not much of a fan of Doc but he seems to have positive influence over the group of players I like so that’s fine. I just worry about Horst and Doc overvaluing someone like Kuzma who they clearly have a vision for on the team. I’m not sold Doc benching Kuzma during the Indiana series is indicative of what the approach is to start this season. If Kuzma is on the team, he’ll be given ample opportunity to earn his keep and I worry we’ll end up digging ourselves out of that hole. Time will tell I suppose. And if Barrett’s value is that low, I could see Horst balk at a potential deal even if the sweetener came from Toronto. It’s really not that difficult to picture imo.

Yeah possible. A plus and minus of Horst appears to be his ability to get players the coaches want. I’d say he has been pretty quick to ‘undo’ those moves. But none of us have a handle on the power dynamics going on at the moment. That said, if any kind of asset was on the table for us to swap RJB for Kuz, I think Horst would hit the ground like a rocket to accept it.

[Jez2983]

How desperate is Toronto to really unload Barrett? Would they attach a 1st or Jakobe Walter in a deal to save themselves money? I’d be all over that if I’m Horst but unfortunately he probably views Kuzma too highly.

Wait. You think if Toronto called and offered a first and Barrett that Horst would decline?

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Wow.

I've no doubt that we'd do that trade. Barrett is definitely the right sort of guy to thrive next to Giannis. I'm also certain Horst isn't a fool, he can see what Kuzma's on court production is (or lack thereof). And getting a first? As long as management was happy to take on the salary and tax I've no doubt Horst would do the deal.

[skbucks1985]

This is going to be a little hyperbolic, but only a little...

If Horst would turn down a trade of Barrett for Kuzma straight up or with a 3rd tier prospect like AJax, that's a borderline fireable offense. Even if you believe they are similar caliber players the fact that Barrett is 5 years younger and positionally fits with the team much better that alone makes him better for this team than Kuzma. You have to believe that Kuzma is appreciably better than Barrett to turn down a swap that is straight up or Kuzma and AJax

[drone3]

Really think less pressure RS minutes can boost Kuz value. We want him gone before the playoffs but don't sell at the lowest

[tedbrogen]

He's as efficient as MPJ, Josh Hart, Derrick White

He’s not even in the same planet as Hart and White defensively. MPJ sure but there’s a reason a contending team dumped him.

If we give up nothing to get him why not. He's a higher salary and better to pair with future picks next off season.

That higher salary means it’s even harder to bench him when you inevitably find out that pairing GA with a subpar shooter who can’t finish is a bad idea.

[tedbrogen]

Wait. You think if Toronto called and offered a first and Barrett that Horst would decline?

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Wow.

I've no doubt that we'd do that trade. Barrett is definitely the right sort of guy to thrive next to Giannis. I'm also certain Horst isn't a fool, he can see what Kuzma's on court production is (or lack thereof). And getting a first? As long as management was happy to take on the salary and tax I've no doubt Horst would do the deal.

Please provide stats that show why Barrett is ideal next to GA. All I see are stats showing he is below league average from three, a sub par finisher at the rim, inefficient even though he only takes shots that are efficient, not a good defender, and doesn’t create for others.

[tedbrogen]

He's as efficient as MPJ, Josh Hart, Derrick White

He’s not even in the same planet as Hart and White defensively. MPJ sure but there’s a reason a contending team dumped him.

I get what you are saying but just going by a contending team dumping a guy is not a great reason. The Bucks roster are full of players that were dumped by their former team.

Toppin and Nesmith were dumped by their former team. Sometimes good players need the right support system for their specific skills. One will never know but I can imagine a scenario where Dort was traded if he didn't have SGA with him in the lineup.

I mean MPJ whose one skill is shooting was playing with one of the greatest player of all time at creating open looks for others and they still traded him.

The Dort comparison doesn’t work because MPJ had Jokic with him and they still dumped him.

Personally, I think it’s no coincidence the Knicks became a better team without RJ Barrett. To me, he’s empty, inefficient stats. Bobby can give you the exact same inefficient scoring without creating for others. The difference is Bobby can also play efficiently off ball in lineups with GA due to being an above average three point shooter. Barrett offball in lineups with GA would kill the spacing.

[ShootingtheJ]

I’d have my doubts, yeah.

Wow.

I've no doubt that we'd do that trade. Barrett is definitely the right sort of guy to thrive next to Giannis. I'm also certain Horst isn't a fool, he can see what Kuzma's on court production is (or lack thereof). And getting a first? As long as management was happy to take on the salary and tax I've no doubt Horst would do the deal.

Please provide stats that show why Barrett is ideal next to GA. All I see are stats showing he is below league average from three, a sub par finisher at the rim, inefficient even though he only takes shots that are efficient, not a good defender, and doesn’t create for others.

I agree with most of what you said, but Barrett's strength is creating for others. That's most of his intrigue.

[raferfenix]

Please provide stats that show why Barrett is ideal next to GA. All I see are stats showing he is below league average from three, a sub par finisher at the rim, inefficient even though he only takes shots that are efficient, not a good defender, and doesn’t create for others.

I agree with most of what you said, but Barrett's strength is creating for others. That's most of his intrigue.

This board is spooking me about Barrett.

Kuzma's far from ideal but is paid significantly less already and it declines next year.

If neither have much/any positive trade value then the consideration could be who's salary slot would be more appealing on the market:

2025-26: Kuzma = $22.4M, RJ = $27.7M
2026-27: Kuzma = $20.3M, RJ = $29.6M.

[GoldenAntlers]

Really think less pressure RS minutes can boost Kuz value. We want him gone before the playoffs but don't sell at the lowest

There is some truth to this, but I'm not sure that wasting a training camp is worth it to bring somebody in halfway through the year. I'd much prefer stability and alignment.

[mlloyd10]

Hard pass on Barrett, he’s horribly inefficient at the most efficient shots basketball.

He's as efficient as MPJ, Josh Hart, Derrick White

He’s not even in the same planet as Hart and White defensively. MPJ sure but there’s a reason a contending team dumped him.

Was going purely off Hollinger NBA Player Statistics PER

[tedbrogen]

He's as efficient as MPJ, Josh Hart, Derrick White

He’s not even in the same planet as Hart and White defensively. MPJ sure but there’s a reason a contending team dumped him.

Was going purely off Hollinger NBA Player Statistics PER

PER doesn’t account for how much a subpar three point shooter kills spacing for GA. Post their shooting stats and let’s see how RJB stacks up against those three.

[Ron Swanson]

Derrick White also looked like nothing more than a JAG rotation guy and poor 3PT shooter at Barrett's age. I'm certainly not the biggest fan of either Barrett or Kuminga, but the reason we're talking about both and why these guys would be attractive options is because of their age and talent/pedigree. Do we wanna find the next Lauri Markkanen, Joe Johnson, or even just the next Bobby? Ok, then these are the dudes you probably need to take a chance on.

[tedbrogen]

Wow.

I've no doubt that we'd do that trade. Barrett is definitely the right sort of guy to thrive next to Giannis. I'm also certain Horst isn't a fool, he can see what Kuzma's on court production is (or lack thereof). And getting a first? As long as management was happy to take on the salary and tax I've no doubt Horst would do the deal.

Please provide stats that show why Barrett is ideal next to GA. All I see are stats showing he is below league average from three, a sub par finisher at the rim, inefficient even though he only takes shots that are efficient, not a good defender, and doesn’t create for others.

I agree with most of what you said, but Barrett's strength is creating for others. That's most of his intrigue.

Last season:
RJB 5.4 apg 2.8 topg
Monk 5.6 apg 2.4 topg

[emunney]

Derrick White also looked like nothing more than a JAG rotation guy and poor 3PT shooter at Barrett's age. I'm certainly not the biggest fan of either Barrett or Kuminga, but the reason we're talking about both and why these guys would be attractive options is because of their age and talent/pedigree. Do we wanna find the next Lauri Markkanen, Joe Johnson, or even just the next Bobby? Ok, then these are the dudes you probably need to take a chance on.

Markannen is a good comp as bumping up the salary commitment from Kuzma feels like a similar level of investment that the Jazz made with Markannen, taking a flier on him as salary filler. Joe Johnson was pretty aggressively pursued (multiple 1sts and a big contract), and I suspect all the people who're poo-pooing Barrett would be over the moon to get him for the BAE (Bobby).

For me, I really like that Barrett seems to be improving, that he fits the age of the new cohort of guys, and that he seems, from a distance, to have a professional approach to the game and his own development. At the same time, it scares the **** out of me that his FT% has cratered. That seems petty but could be a very bad sign.

[tedbrogen]

Derrick White also looked like nothing more than a JAG rotation guy and poor 3PT shooter at Barrett's age. I'm certainly not the biggest fan of either Barrett or Kuminga, but the reason we're talking about both and why these guys would be attractive options is because of their age and talent/pedigree. Do we wanna find the next Lauri Markkanen, Joe Johnson, or even just the next Bobby? Ok, then these are the dudes you probably need to take a chance on.

White shot 85% free the free throw line his last two full seasons with the Spurs. I’m told free throw percentage is one of the best correlations with being able to become a consistently good three point shooter.

What was RJB’s free throw percentage the past two seasons?

[raferfenix]

I'm certainly not the biggest fan of either Barrett or Kuminga, but the reason we're talking about both and why these guys would be attractive options is because of their age and talent/pedigree.

That and we’d also be dumping Kuzma.

Barrett will have fewer years on his deal and would cost less to acquire that Kuminga but has a lower ceiling to improve are other considerations.

We don’t have many tradeable salary slots (even aside from assets), so whatever we do or don’t do here will be important!

RJ in theory could be flipped again on draft day when we could pair him with 3 firsts. Kuminga seems like he’d require a bigger commitment + we’d probably have to include a first to get him:

Restricted free agent Jonathan Kuminga rejected the Golden State Warriors' latest contract proposal and continues exploring sign-and-trade opportunities, according to ESPN's Shams Charania.

Kuminga told ESPN after a Thursday morning workout in Miami that he found nothing appealing in the Warriors' recent offers. The stalemate has kept Golden State's other offseason business on hold as they remain the only NBA team not to sign or trade for a player this summer.

Agent Aaron Turner has spent July searching for sign-and-trade opportunities, with the Phoenix Suns and Sacramento Kings showing the most tangible interest. Both teams remain on the fringe of discussions while attempting to engage the Warriors on potential packages.

Golden State wants a promising young player and a first-round pick in any Kuminga sign-and-trade deal. The Warriors also refuse to take on what they consider bad salary, creating complications for potential suitors.

Beyond contract demands, Kuminga is searching for a more guaranteed, consistent starting role and featured opportunity than he has with the Warriors. The Suns and Kings have pitched him on expanded roles in their respective systems.

Kuminga was entirely out of the rotation in the first round against Houston but scored 18, 30, 23 and 26 points in the final four playoff games against Minnesota after Stephen Curry's injury. The contrasting playoff experiences have shaped his current mindset about his role.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/281498/Jonathan-Kuminga-Rejects-Warriors-Latest-Contract-Offer-Explores-Sign-And-Trades-With-Kings-Suns