Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[DrModesty]

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see, now this is what an insulting offer looks like

Perspective is a funny thing. I have been on the higher end of Giddey, but on Cam Thomas I am definitely not convinced. I feel like he is the classic black hole player that should be stayed away from. I would definitely want to stay below $20m on him and the closer to $20m I go, the shorter term I want it to be. That offer only feels like its a couple million off AAV for me.

Edit: nvm, I didn't read it properly. Team option on that second year makes that a pretty awful offer.

[DrModesty]

Hypothetically... giddy takes qo for 11.

Doesn't that.free up substantial amounts we can absorb.via trade and or use the tpe?

We'd have Josh for 1 year on a bargain while he plays for his next contract, could use the space to upgrade elsewhere, and who knows... if he balls out, we could still offer him over 30... and essentially get him on a good average because we stole him in 2025 cheap. Now maybe feelings are hurt and he won't entertain an offer, or maybe he decides we have something here.

If Giddey on the QO balls out like he did post all star break for the entire next season, his contract would start with a 4, not a 3. He would also be all but gone because him taking the QO only happens if he is feeling insulted by the Bulls (because the Bulls only excuse to not pay him is they don't think he is worth it. They don't have cap issues)

[Andi Obst]

Love the way the Bulls are handling this. I just wish they did the same with Pat and Vuc (wasn't a RFA, but they still overpaid for no reason before free agency even started).

Pat on an Isaiah Joe-type contract would at least not look terrible.

[Evil_Headband]

It's doesn't make sense for Giddey to take the QO for more reasons than financially. He asked for a trade in OKC and would now be on the outs with his second team. He also wouldn't have bird rights even if he would agree to an in-season trade. He's going to need a team with cap space to get his desired contract. He shouldn't be confident there will be such a team. There should be more cap-space teams next year than this year but still not many.

4/$100 with a player option for the last year is what he should be trying to settle for.

[Chi town]

Giddey only played like a 30M player for 20 games. He played like a MLE player the rest of the season.

If he refuses anything less than 30 he will be playing on the QO. Same for Kuminga.

Flashes don’t mean worth.

[MGB8]

Not surprised by things going on this direction. The 30 M demand and standing on it shows some lack of self awareness by Giddey and his people.

They can point to bad deals given before the impact of the apron was understood, but even those were for 2-way players, and the reality is that Giddey is awful defensively as a guard (borderline unplayable) and only passable as a forward.

Between that, the limited streak of productivity, and the concerns about his shooting being maintained, it isn't reasonable to expect ~80% or so of a 0-6 MAX.

And while the Bulls talked about how they viewed Giddey as a cornerstone, they were very non-committal about getting a deal done. "Hope something can be worked out that makes sense for both..."

I think a short deal (3 years) is probably where we are heading. Hope the Bulls are being creative and submitting parallel offers. At same time, while Wizards will have cap space and a need (assuming none of vets resigned), you will also have D'Aaron Fox as the premier PG free agent if an extension doesn't happen. Wiz might also draft a PG, Giddey's deficiencies may again show strongly, and Wiz simply may not be interested. Not that many teams project to have a ton of cap space beyond Washington.

[Chi town]

I think Kuminga signs which will establish a market first then Giddey will sign.

[Infinity2152]

There is an argument that the Bulls, by letting this go on (i.e. give Giddey's agent time to find another team to offer a higher deal), are doing Giddey a bit of a favor.

No there isn't, teams aren't going to all of a sudden decide they want to offer Giddey a bigger deal now.

That would have happened already.

There's no cap space in the league. Where will he go

Jazz can easily create enough space to make him a $30+ mill offer. Cap space estimated to be $20-$25 mill right now, depending on final figures and contract holds. They could be in the market for a great young PG, and Giddey certainly fits a rebuild. Just like he said, this helps Giddey more than the Bulls. Bulls can't get any more leverage, Giddey potentially can. The Bucks found cap space to sign Myles Turner to a contract bigger than what the Bulls are allegedly offering. Didn't take them months to do it either.


Pacers thought nobody could offer Turner 5 yrs/$125 mill either. Nobody had cap space. Didn't work out well for them.

[jnrjr79]

No there isn't, teams aren't going to all of a sudden decide they want to offer Giddey a bigger deal now.

That would have happened already.

There's no cap space in the league. Where will he go

Jazz can easily create enough space to make him a $30+ mill offer. Cap space estimated to be $20-$25 mill right now, depending on final figures and contract holds. They could be in the market for a great young PG, and Giddey certainly fits a rebuild. Just like he said, this helps Giddey more than the Bulls. Bulls can't get any more leverage, Giddey potentially can. The Bucks found cap space to sign Myles Turner to a contract bigger than what the Bulls are allegedly offering. Didn't take them months to do it either.


Pacers thought nobody could offer Turner 5 yrs/$125 mill either. Nobody had cap space. Didn't work out well for them.

The fact that the Jazz could do this, but haven't done it, suggests to me they won't do it.

[Chi town]

That 3 ball looks better and better

[dougthonus]

If Giddey on the QO balls out like he did post all star break for the entire next season, his contract would start with a 4, not a 3. He would also be all but gone because him taking the QO only happens if he is feeling insulted by the Bulls (because the Bulls only excuse to not pay him is they don't think he is worth it. They don't have cap issues)

If Giddey plays the way he did prior to the all-star break when going up against teams that were primarily trying instead of tanking, his contract could start with a 1 and not a 2, but yes, they don't think he's worth a contract that starts with a 3 and likely neither does anyone else in the NBA.

[Jvaughn]

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see, now this is what an insulting offer looks like

Perspective is a funny thing. I have been on the higher end of Giddey, but on Cam Thomas I am definitely not convinced. I feel like he is the classic black hole player that should be stayed away from. I would definitely want to stay below $20m on him and the closer to $20m I go, the shorter term I want it to be. That offer only feels like its a couple million off AAV for me.

Edit: nvm, I didn't read it properly. Team option on that second year makes that a pretty awful offer.

The ball movement in Brooklyn with MPJ and Cam Thomas is about to be hysterical. I honestly might get League Pass this year just to watch.

[drosestruts]

If Giddey on the QO balls out like he did post all star break for the entire next season, his contract would start with a 4, not a 3. He would also be all but gone because him taking the QO only happens if he is feeling insulted by the Bulls (because the Bulls only excuse to not pay him is they don't think he is worth it. They don't have cap issues)

If Giddey plays the way he did prior to the all-star break when going up against teams that were primarily trying instead of tanking, his contract could start with a 1 and not a 2, but yes, they don't think he's worth a contract that starts with a 3 and likely neither does anyone else in the NBA.

of our 30 games post all-star break I count 8 games against teams I'd say were tanking. We did go 8-0 in those games.

For the 22 other games we wnt 10-12. And 1-3 specifically in games Giddey missed.

So just under .500 against "competing" teams and did our job against bad teams.

But that's more of a team success.

I know you don't like +/- but I'm not sure I have a better stat here.

Giddey only has a negative +/- in 4 games post all-star break. So he was largely winning his minutes when on the court, even if we weren't winning all the games.

At the end of the day I'm not even sure what my point is - because both of your points are also very right.

If Giddey plays to his full potential he'll be worth a lot more, if he plays poorly (which he has for stretches at times) - he'll be worht a lot less.

Als a statement that can be said about most players.

[Indomitable]

There's no cap space in the league. Where will he go

Jazz can easily create enough space to make him a $30+ mill offer. Cap space estimated to be $20-$25 mill right now, depending on final figures and contract holds. They could be in the market for a great young PG, and Giddey certainly fits a rebuild. Just like he said, this helps Giddey more than the Bulls. Bulls can't get any more leverage, Giddey potentially can. The Bucks found cap space to sign Myles Turner to a contract bigger than what the Bulls are allegedly offering. Didn't take them months to do it either.


Pacers thought nobody could offer Turner 5 yrs/$125 mill either. Nobody had cap space. Didn't work out well for them.

The fact that the Jazz could do this, but haven't done it, suggests to me they won't do it.

Is this person comparing a team trying to keep a top 2 player with signing Giddey.

My God Reinsdorf actually paid for the 6 peat team. Before Rose got ruined he actually paid the Luxury tax.

Nobody thinks Kuminga or Giddey are worth it.
Every player that was valued never made it to rfa.

I understand it is the off season but come on. Giddey will either sign the qfa or a team friendly deal.

[dougthonus]

of our 30 games post all-star break I count 8 games against teams I'd say were tanking. We did go 8-0 in those games.

For the 22 other games we wnt 10-12. And 1-3 specifically in games Giddey missed.

So just under .500 against "competing" teams and did our job against bad teams.

But that's more of a team success.

I know you don't like +/- but I'm not sure I have a better stat here.

Giddey only has a negative +/- in 4 games post all-star break. So he was largely winning his minutes when on the court, even if we weren't winning all the games.

At the end of the day I'm not even sure what my point is - because both of your points are also very right.

If Giddey plays to his full potential he'll be worth a lot more, if he plays poorly (which he has for stretches at times) - he'll be worht a lot less.

Als a statement that can be said about most players.

In the end, what you have summed up, and I agree with, is that dealing with guys in this range is always difficult. When they are young and have a wide variance on potential outcomes it is even more difficult. Throw in the inability for the market to really do a lot to help set a value point where it becomes a stalemate, and it is again even more difficult.

I'd guess Giddey ultimately is back at around 25M AAV, but I would also bet we don't see anything until October.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[jnrjr79]

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Refreshing to see AK actually negotiating and using leverage for the first time in his life.

[sco]

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Refreshing to see AK actually negotiating and using leverage for the first time in his life.

So what do we think has been the back and forth?

Giddey's agent: We think $30M is market for my client. Look at Suggs etc.

AK: We want Josh here a long time and value him, and if he did what he did all year, we might think differently, but it was for 1/3 of a season.

Giddey's agent: But it was for a good enough stretch to extrapolate

AK: Sorry, but we think 4/$80 is fair, but if you find someone offering an AAV of $30M, sign it and we'll probably match. Take as much time as you want.

(1 month later)

Giddey's agent: You guys change your position?

AK: Nope. You?

Giddey's agent: Nope.

(soon thereafter)

Giddey: I'm not happy with how negotiations are going!

[MisterRoy]

Because it's the Bulls and Because it's AKME, he will sign the QO and go elsewhere next season.

[nomorezorro]

that article said that nobody has contacted either side about a s&t.

if i was giddey’s agent and wanted the bulls to come up to my asking price, i would personally be trying to get literally one other franchise in the entire league to show even a modicum of interest in acquiring giddey at that price point. because otherwise it kind of seems like nobody thinks he’s worth that