Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[vvoland]

I don’t know that the nuance of that number being what he was seeking rather than what the Warriors were offering changes the narrative that his camp significantly overshot his market value. What it actually sounds like is that the Warriors front office realized very quickly that the sides were too far apart for productive discussion and chose the wait and see approach.

If their concern really was the poison pill, like slater said, and they didn't make any contract offer, it sounds like his camp had/has little to do with it.

I don't think any contract would have worked (maybe something like what moody signed is small enough to minimize the PP impact?). Last summer, using JJ as the comp to start a negotiation makes a ton of sense, from the agency side.

Somehow, that got leaked as something JK rejected when nothing, at all, was even offered.

[vvoland]

Yes, that would be the protected 1st from Sac and a 1st from GS in 26 or 27 when GS should still be good.

JK and a frp for a center that won't start or close games? Trading our last real asset for another non-shooter next to dray and Jimmy? I'd pass

Sure, Kessler would eat up minutes to hypothetically keep Horford rested for the season and individual games to close out games. Kessler has size to defend bigger players and on offense other than being a lob threat/finisher, he seems to be a decent passer just not utilzed that way.

I'm open for a better trade but as of now getting Saric, Carter and a prot 1st or G.Allen and N.Richards on an expiring contract doesn't seem to be better options.

I'm not upset at Kuminga, he's playing how he wants to (and how he wants to play during his career vs being a roleplayer which didn't help GS), it's the FO issue for not moving Kerr guys in front of him to give him his opportunity or just deciding to make that huge Butler swing without following that up with a Kuminga trade if the new team would waive his physical since he was injured at the time(maybe nobody would do that).

A lot of people are acting like this is no longer a workable relationship. They forget the hoops this front office made dray, iggy, and klay jump through, before, eventually, bringing them back. They even thought about playing hardball with Steph after the FOURTH ring.

I'd still be willing to bet he's here on Nov 1st. Now, March 1st, is another matter.

[Onus]

JK and a frp for a center that won't start or close games? Trading our last real asset for another non-shooter next to dray and Jimmy? I'd pass

Sure, Kessler would eat up minutes to hypothetically keep Horford rested for the season and individual games to close out games. Kessler has size to defend bigger players and on offense other than being a lob threat/finisher, he seems to be a decent passer just not utilzed that way.

I'm open for a better trade but as of now getting Saric, Carter and a prot 1st or G.Allen and N.Richards on an expiring contract doesn't seem to be better options.

I'm not upset at Kuminga, he's playing how he wants to (and how he wants to play during his career vs being a roleplayer which didn't help GS), it's the FO issue for not moving Kerr guys in front of him to give him his opportunity or just deciding to make that huge Butler swing without following that up with a Kuminga trade if the new team would waive his physical since he was injured at the time(maybe nobody would do that).

A lot of people are acting like this is no longer a workable relationship. They forget the hoops this front office made dray, iggy, and klay jump through, before, eventually, bringing them back. They even thought about playing hardball with Steph after the FOURTH ring.

I'd still be willing to bet he's here on Nov 1st. Now, March 1st, is another matter.

It's not if he no longer wants to be here. We're offering the most money and likely the 2nd best role (phx, gsw, sac) and he's still looking for a s&t.

[cpower]

I think people should have a reality check.. Kuminga is not worth 25, probably not even 20.
Herb Jones 3yr/$68M ~ 20M and he is more valuable than Kuminga ...

[One_and_Done]

According to seigal:

Kings now included a protected 1st with saric and Carter.

Warriors want Keegan or Ellis. Kings have put those 2 off limits.

Kings are overpaying. I think the GSW front office isn't being realistic here.

The Warriors still have the most leverage. They can afford to be unrealistic. You have to assume they’re pretty comfortable with whatever other FA moves they intend to make or they’d be showing more urgency.

Leverage for what? To hold on to a guy only notoriously bad franchises even want?

[vvoland]

Sure, Kessler would eat up minutes to hypothetically keep Horford rested for the season and individual games to close out games. Kessler has size to defend bigger players and on offense other than being a lob threat/finisher, he seems to be a decent passer just not utilzed that way.

I'm open for a better trade but as of now getting Saric, Carter and a prot 1st or G.Allen and N.Richards on an expiring contract doesn't seem to be better options.

I'm not upset at Kuminga, he's playing how he wants to (and how he wants to play during his career vs being a roleplayer which didn't help GS), it's the FO issue for not moving Kerr guys in front of him to give him his opportunity or just deciding to make that huge Butler swing without following that up with a Kuminga trade if the new team would waive his physical since he was injured at the time(maybe nobody would do that).

A lot of people are acting like this is no longer a workable relationship. They forget the hoops this front office made dray, iggy, and klay jump through, before, eventually, bringing them back. They even thought about playing hardball with Steph after the FOURTH ring.

I'd still be willing to bet he's here on Nov 1st. Now, March 1st, is another matter.

It's not if he no longer wants to be here. We're offering the most money and likely the 2nd best role (phx, gsw, sac) and he's still looking for a s&t.

Yes, except we don't know that to be the case. The rumors of the warriors getting more serious about their offer sounds hollow considering slater just told us there were 0 offers seriously discussed last summer after the media letting everyone think we offered 5/150 just 12 months ago.

Not sure about the second best role. If you were JK, would you have any confidence Kerr won't bury you at the first gray cloud? He's been promised everything in the world, including dray's starting spot, only to get single digit minutes shortly thereafter. Not saying he didn't earn many of those setbacks but I'd be much more confident in his minutes in sac, phx, mia, etc than next year in gsw.

Do I think the most likely path is him getting 25+ mins as a spot starter and 6th man? Yes. Would I take the over on 25 mpg and 25 starts? No. If I had to, I'd bet the under on both of those, given even odds.

[CS707]

I don’t know that the nuance of that number being what he was seeking rather than what the Warriors were offering changes the narrative that his camp significantly overshot his market value. What it actually sounds like is that the Warriors front office realized very quickly that the sides were too far apart for productive discussion and chose the wait and see approach.

If their concern really was the poison pill, like slater said, and they didn't make any contract offer, it sounds like his camp had/has little to do with it.

I don't think any contract would have worked (maybe something like what moody signed is small enough to minimize the PP impact?). Last summer, using JJ as the comp to start a negotiation makes a ton of sense, from the agency side.

Somehow, that got leaked as something JK rejected when nothing, at all, was even offered.

Not making an offer doesn’t mean they didn’t talk numbers. There is a lot of contradictory information out there so who knows what’s the actual truth but I doubt very much that there was zero willingness to engage in reasonable discussion by the Warriors. Up until recently JK was supposedly off limits as a trade option by the organization. Now they wanted to trade him so badly that they refused to talk extension? At the same time, they’re supposedly fighting to retain him this offseason? To me, this feels a lot like JKs camp trying to get control of the narrative.

[CS707]

Kings are overpaying. I think the GSW front office isn't being realistic here.

The Warriors still have the most leverage. They can afford to be unrealistic. You have to assume they’re pretty comfortable with whatever other FA moves they intend to make or they’d be showing more urgency.

Leverage for what? To hold on to a guy only notoriously bad franchises even want?

The Warriors control where he plays and how much money he earns next year. Anything he wants goes through our front office. Worst case scenario he’s back on the QO and has to play for his career.

[statsman]

Not making an offer doesn’t mean they didn’t talk numbers. There is a lot of contradictory information out there so who knows what’s the actual truth but I doubt very much that there was zero willingness to engage in reasonable discussion by the Warriors. Up until recently JK was supposedly off limits as a trade option by the organization. Now they wanted to trade him so badly that they refused to talk extension? At the same time, they’re supposedly fighting to retain him this offseason? To me, this feels a lot like JKs camp trying to get control of the narrative.

I'm likely to believe this than most of what's being reported or discussed. It's also very possible what the Warriors were thinking last offseason changed a great deal after the Butler trade, especially since Kuminga wouldn't return for another 5 weeks after the trade.

[CS707]

Not making an offer doesn’t mean they didn’t talk numbers. There is a lot of contradictory information out there so who knows what’s the actual truth but I doubt very much that there was zero willingness to engage in reasonable discussion by the Warriors. Up until recently JK was supposedly off limits as a trade option by the organization. Now they wanted to trade him so badly that they refused to talk extension? At the same time, they’re supposedly fighting to retain him this offseason? To me, this feels a lot like JKs camp trying to get control of the narrative.

I'm likely to believe this than most of what's being reported or discussed. It's also very possible what the Warriors were thinking last offseason changed a great deal after the Butler trade, especially since Kuminga wouldn't return for another 5 weeks after the trade.

The information contradicts though. On one hand we’re hearing that we’re trying to keep him, on the other hand we’re hearing that that we’re of the mind to trade him as early as last offseason.

[NW]

[x]

Read on Twitter

[/x]

Slater on Sac radio talking about how Kuminga talked to the Sac FO crew and likes what they’re saying.

Then sell them on adding Keon Ellis or lowering protection on the first

[statsman]

The Warriors still have the most leverage. They can afford to be unrealistic. You have to assume they’re pretty comfortable with whatever other FA moves they intend to make or they’d be showing more urgency.

Leverage for what? To hold on to a guy only notoriously bad franchises even want?

The Warriors control where he plays and how much money he earns next year. Anything he wants goes through our front office. Worst case scenario he’s back on the QO and has to play for his career.

There is the remote possibility that some team could clear enough cap space to make an offer above what the Warriors may/could be offering, but it is a bit of a long-shot. That team would need to make one or more trades for that to happen. I'm not sure Kuminga is worth it to teams to do that.

Make no mistake, there are several teams who would pay Kuminga $20M+ for this season. The mechanisms to get there are what limit that possibility, if the reported trades are to be believed.

[Onus]

A lot of people are acting like this is no longer a workable relationship. They forget the hoops this front office made dray, iggy, and klay jump through, before, eventually, bringing them back. They even thought about playing hardball with Steph after the FOURTH ring.

I'd still be willing to bet he's here on Nov 1st. Now, March 1st, is another matter.

It's not if he no longer wants to be here. We're offering the most money and likely the 2nd best role (phx, gsw, sac) and he's still looking for a s&t.

Yes, except we don't know that to be the case. The rumors of the warriors getting more serious about their offer sounds hollow considering slater just told us there were 0 offers seriously discussed last summer after the media letting everyone think we offered 5/150 just 12 months ago.

Not sure about the second best role. If you were JK, would you have any confidence Kerr won't bury you at the first gray cloud? He's been promised everything in the world, including dray's starting spot, only to get single digit minutes shortly thereafter. Not saying he didn't earn many of those setbacks but I'd be much more confident in his minutes in sac, phx, mia, etc than next year in gsw.

Do I think the most likely path is him getting 25+ mins as a spot starter and 6th man? Yes. Would I take the over on 25 mpg and 25 starts? No. If I had to, I'd bet the under on both of those, given even odds.

Read between the lines. We're offering him the most money. We have 3 guys (Steph, JB, Dray) that we can run offense through. The kings have Schroeder, Monk, Lavine, DDR, Sabonis to run offense through. They plan on starting Keegan and want to see what he can do as well. He really thinks he's going to have more opportunities in Sac? I guess in sac he only has to compete with Keegan, DDR for minutes and here he has to compete with JB, Dray and Gui (lmao) for minutes. He's scared he's going to get beat out by Gui?!?! If he can't get 25+ mpg that's on him. He most likely won't get 25 starts here, while he may start in sac, but they won't be running offense through him.

If MDJ is able to get Keon added somehow then I think JK is a King.

[NW]

It's not if he no longer wants to be here. We're offering the most money and likely the 2nd best role (phx, gsw, sac) and he's still looking for a s&t.

Yes, except we don't know that to be the case. The rumors of the warriors getting more serious about their offer sounds hollow considering slater just told us there were 0 offers seriously discussed last summer after the media letting everyone think we offered 5/150 just 12 months ago.

Not sure about the second best role. If you were JK, would you have any confidence Kerr won't bury you at the first gray cloud? He's been promised everything in the world, including dray's starting spot, only to get single digit minutes shortly thereafter. Not saying he didn't earn many of those setbacks but I'd be much more confident in his minutes in sac, phx, mia, etc than next year in gsw.

Do I think the most likely path is him getting 25+ mins as a spot starter and 6th man? Yes. Would I take the over on 25 mpg and 25 starts? No. If I had to, I'd bet the under on both of those, given even odds.

Read between the lines. We're offering him the most money. We have 3 guys (Steph, JB, Dray) that we can run offense through. The kings have Schroeder, Monk, Lavine, DDR, Sabonis to run offense through. They plan on starting Keegan and want to see what he can do as well. He really thinks he's going to have more opportunities in Sac? I guess in sac he only has to compete with Keegan, DDR for minutes and here he has to compete with JB, Dray and Gui (lmao) for minutes. He's scared he's going to get beat out by Gui?!?! If he can't get 25+ mpg that's on him. He most likely won't get 25 starts here, while he may start in sac, but they won't be running offense through him.

If MDJ is able to get Keon added somehow then I think JK is a King.

The fact Keon Ellis is the sticking point is crazy for a player they want to pay and give starter’s minutes and a role.

But Keon Ellis is the bridge to far. The guy they didn’t give a qualifying offer to so they could pay Dennis Schroder more money and now is stuck among their wing/guard glut of Murray, LaVine, DeRozan, Monk, the Clifford kid they traded into the first round to get and are a leader for Westbrook or Ben Simmons.

Ellis has to be looking at being in an unrestricted contract year like “F this”.

[Onus]

Yes, except we don't know that to be the case. The rumors of the warriors getting more serious about their offer sounds hollow considering slater just told us there were 0 offers seriously discussed last summer after the media letting everyone think we offered 5/150 just 12 months ago.

Not sure about the second best role. If you were JK, would you have any confidence Kerr won't bury you at the first gray cloud? He's been promised everything in the world, including dray's starting spot, only to get single digit minutes shortly thereafter. Not saying he didn't earn many of those setbacks but I'd be much more confident in his minutes in sac, phx, mia, etc than next year in gsw.

Do I think the most likely path is him getting 25+ mins as a spot starter and 6th man? Yes. Would I take the over on 25 mpg and 25 starts? No. If I had to, I'd bet the under on both of those, given even odds.

Read between the lines. We're offering him the most money. We have 3 guys (Steph, JB, Dray) that we can run offense through. The kings have Schroeder, Monk, Lavine, DDR, Sabonis to run offense through. They plan on starting Keegan and want to see what he can do as well. He really thinks he's going to have more opportunities in Sac? I guess in sac he only has to compete with Keegan, DDR for minutes and here he has to compete with JB, Dray and Gui (lmao) for minutes. He's scared he's going to get beat out by Gui?!?! If he can't get 25+ mpg that's on him. He most likely won't get 25 starts here, while he may start in sac, but they won't be running offense through him.

If MDJ is able to get Keon added somehow then I think JK is a King.

The fact Keon Ellis is the sticking point is crazy for a player they want to pay and give starter’s minutes and a role.

But Keon Ellis is the bridge to far. The guy they didn’t give a qualifying offer to so they could pay Dennis Schroder more money and now is stuck among their wing/guard glut of Murray, LaVine, DeRozan, Monk, the Clifford kid they traded into the first round to get and are a leader for Westbrook or Ben Simmons.

Ellis has to be looking at being in an unrestricted contract year like “F this”.

Yea it’s hilarious that the kings want to sell jk on being a starter and having a huge opportunity but are unwilling to include a rental (Keon will be an ufa next season) at a position they are stacked in (LAVINE, monk, Clifford, Keon, Carter). And jk really thinks they’re going to give him a big opportunity.

Seriously how is sac going to be able to trade for jk and re-sign Keegan and Keon next year? LAVINE is going to opt out of his 47M? Is ddr not guaranteed next year?

[NW]

Read between the lines. We're offering him the most money. We have 3 guys (Steph, JB, Dray) that we can run offense through. The kings have Schroeder, Monk, Lavine, DDR, Sabonis to run offense through. They plan on starting Keegan and want to see what he can do as well. He really thinks he's going to have more opportunities in Sac? I guess in sac he only has to compete with Keegan, DDR for minutes and here he has to compete with JB, Dray and Gui (lmao) for minutes. He's scared he's going to get beat out by Gui?!?! If he can't get 25+ mpg that's on him. He most likely won't get 25 starts here, while he may start in sac, but they won't be running offense through him.

If MDJ is able to get Keon added somehow then I think JK is a King.

The fact Keon Ellis is the sticking point is crazy for a player they want to pay and give starter’s minutes and a role.

But Keon Ellis is the bridge to far. The guy they didn’t give a qualifying offer to so they could pay Dennis Schroder more money and now is stuck among their wing/guard glut of Murray, LaVine, DeRozan, Monk, the Clifford kid they traded into the first round to get and are a leader for Westbrook or Ben Simmons.

Ellis has to be looking at being in an unrestricted contract year like “F this”.

Yea it’s hilarious that the kings want to sell jk on being a starter and having a huge opportunity but are unwilling to include a rental (Keon will be an ufa next season) at a position they are stacked in (LAVINE, monk, Clifford, Keon, Carter). And jk really thinks they’re going to give him a big opportunity.

Seriously how is sac going to be able to trade for jk and re-sign Keegan and Keon next year? LAVINE is going to opt out of his 47M? Is ddr not guaranteed next year?

Exactly. I don’t think Ellis will remain untouchable. Even the Sac media are saying there are folks in their front office that just want to get the deal done. IMO, their GM wants to play hardball because he doesn’t think they need to give more since he thinks GS doesn’t want JK. He thinks Dunleavy and company eventually cave. When he doesn’t, Ellis will be on the table

[KevinMcreynolds]

Apparently that Carter + protected 1st offer is still on the table. I would totally take that as long as the protection is reasonable

[statsman]

Apparently that Carter + protected 1st offer is still on the table. I would totally take that as long as the protection is reasonable

Carter only makes $4.9M. How in the heck do the Kings make the salaries work? The previously rumored Carter/Saric trade is not allowed because Saric cannot be aggregated in a trade until 1/13/26.

[Onus]

Apparently that Carter + protected 1st offer is still on the table. I would totally take that as long as the protection is reasonable

Hold out for Ellis

[Onus]

Apparently that Carter + protected 1st offer is still on the table. I would totally take that as long as the protection is reasonable

Carter only makes $4.9M. How in the heck do the Kings make the salaries work? The previously rumored Carter/Saric trade is not allowed because Saric cannot be aggregated in a trade until 1/13/26.

I think Carter + Ellis and JK gets 15M as the starting salary works.