Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[KGdaBom]

I guess my point is I'd rather get some value for Rudy before it's too late and I'm not sold on Rob being anything more than a solid backup. Suggs and WCJr give our team more upside imo.

Sure Rudy has more value now than he will 2 years from now on the surface, but I don't want to get value for Rudy in the next two years while Rudy can still help us win an NBA title.

[KGdaBom]

I guess my point is I'd rather get some value for Rudy before it's too late….

I actually think Gobert I’ll be the rare big man that ages well. He takes tremendous care of his body and his nutrition, and while most big men regularly miss large numbers of of games, Rudy averages over 70 a season for 11 years, if you remove his rookie year. He has also averaged over 70 for his last five years as well. I find it encouraging.

Rudy is a big part of the Wolves potentially being NBA champion over the next two years. Eventually his contract will get smaller and we can keep him on during a hopefully slow decline.

[BlacJacMac]

I guess my point is I'd rather get some value for Rudy before it's too late and I'm not sold on Rob being anything more than a solid backup. Suggs and WCJr give our team more upside imo.

For the few games they play...

Suggs and WCJ do nothing for me.

I love Goga though, and I'd consider a deal for him with Rudy as the main piece as a longer-term move.

But we can't just throw in Dilly unless we're getting a PG back (and that's not Suggs).

Fair enough. I'd just rather have Suggs and Gogabit than Rudy and RD, especially with one more year of Mike, but that's just me...

But you also want to play Suggs at PG.

I don't see Suggs starting for us. He can't play PG and he doesn't shoot well enough to take pressure off Ant. He just defends. My guess is he's fighting with TSJ for the 7th man spot. And I could see him losing that battle.

If you want to craft a deal around Rudy/Dilly for Goga and either Black or Jase, I;d listen.

[BlacJacMac]

Suggs has played in 48, 53, 75 and 35 games his 4 years.

And he's a career 42/33 shooter with 3 of his 4 seasons shooting worse than that.

[winforlose]

Suggs has played in 48, 53, 75 and 35 games his 4 years.

And he's a career 42/33 shooter with 3 of his 4 seasons shooting worse than that.

I have mixed feelings on Suggs. I agree his shooting is concerning and his lack of availability is why I wouldn’t touch him. On the other hand, his defense is upper end for his position, his size is great for his position, his upside is intriguing (if he can ever stay healthy long enough to develop,) and his fit next to Ant would be intriguing, (again if he can develop his shot and stay healthy.) The problem is, we cannot afford to gamble on him, and there is no easy way to acquire him. If he were a buyout looking for a fresh start, then by all means. But short of that, I agree with you we should not go near him.

[Klomp]

I ask again, how many SGs do we need? We should not be trading Bigs or PGs for wings - unless they're an absolute superstar that compliments Ant.

Suggs is a very nice defender, but 2023-24 is looking like a clear outlier shooting the ball.

And he can't stay healthy.

Can't Suggs play PG?

Not well.

AST% 19.2
TOV% 16.2

PER 36: 4.5 assists vs 3.0 tos

He's not in any way a natural PG. He doesn't run offense, he doesn't get his teammates easy shots, he doesn't break pressure.

He's basically NAW without the 3 point shot or durability.

Was Derek Fisher not a point guard? He had only two seasons in his 18-year career where his assist percentage was higher than 19.2 and his turnover percentage was lower than 16.2.

[BlacJacMac]

Can't Suggs play PG?

Not well.

AST% 19.2
TOV% 16.2

PER 36: 4.5 assists vs 3.0 tos

He's not in any way a natural PG. He doesn't run offense, he doesn't get his teammates easy shots, he doesn't break pressure.

He's basically NAW without the 3 point shot or durability.

Was Derek Fisher not a point guard? He had only two seasons in his 18-year career where his assist percentage was higher than 19.2 and his turnover percentage was lower than 16.2.

Fisher was a PG in height only. His biggest impact came on defense and 90% of his FGs with the Lakers were assisted.

He only started like half his career games. And was really only a starter for the Lakers - where he was never their primary ball handler.

He was always 4th or 5th on the Lakers in Assists - behind Kobe (who really was their de facto PG), Pau and Odom.

[cmoss84]

Here's a doozy:

Atl IN: Rudy, RD, Da Silva, and Miller
OUT: Young, '26 FRP (via SAS), future SRP

ORL IN: DDV and future SRP
OUT: BogaBit and Da Silva

MN IN: Young, Bogabit, and '26 FRP (SAS)
OUT: Rudy, DDV, RD, and Miller

Young/Mike
Ant/TSJ/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Randle/Naz
Bogabit/JB

[FrenchMinnyFan]

I guess my point is I'd rather get some value for Rudy before it's too late….

I actually think Gobert I’ll be the rare big man that ages well. He takes tremendous care of his body and his nutrition, and while most big men regularly miss large numbers of of games, Rudy averages over 70 a season for 11 years, if you remove his rookie year. He has also averaged over 70 for his last five years as well. I find it encouraging.

Rudy is a big part of the Wolves potentially being NBA champion over the next two years. Eventually his contract will get smaller and we can keep him on during a hopefully slow decline.

I don't see Rudy getting decline fast for 2 reasons :
- He really take care of his body.
- His offense is not good and will never. As long as he focus on defensive part, he will be important for the team. At least for the next 2 or 3 years which is probably our title window anyway.

[Klomp]

He was always 4th or 5th on the Lakers in Assists - behind Kobe (who really was their de facto PG), Pau and Odom.

Sounds like a fireable offense to put the ball in the hands of a star SG instead of a PG....

[winforlose]

He was always 4th or 5th on the Lakers in Assists - behind Kobe (who really was their de facto PG), Pau and Odom.

Sounds like a fireable offense to put the ball in the hands of a star SG instead of a PG....

Out of curiosity who has/had the better handle, Ant or Kobe?

[Klomp]

He was always 4th or 5th on the Lakers in Assists - behind Kobe (who really was their de facto PG), Pau and Odom.

Sounds like a fireable offense to put the ball in the hands of a star SG instead of a PG....

Out of curiosity who has/had the better handle, Ant or Kobe?

Kobe: 1,141/828 = 1.38 assists to turnovers, first five seasons
Ant: 1,600/1,099 = 1.46 assists to turnovers, first five seasons

[winforlose]

Sounds like a fireable offense to put the ball in the hands of a star SG instead of a PG....

Out of curiosity who has/had the better handle, Ant or Kobe?

Kobe: 1,141/828 = 1.38 assists to turnovers, first five seasons
Ant: 1,600/1,099 = 1.46 assists to turnovers, first five seasons

Granted, neither one had great ratios, but that was not my question. My question was who had the better handle.

[Norseman79]

Out of curiosity who has/had the better handle, Ant or Kobe?

Kobe: 1,141/828 = 1.38 assists to turnovers, first five seasons
Ant: 1,600/1,099 = 1.46 assists to turnovers, first five seasons

Granted, neither one had great ratios, but that was not my question. My question was who had the better handle.

Subjective as it doesn't take into account the changes in the game...I would say Kobe developed better handles, but comparing that aspect is tough due to the way the game has altered.

[winforlose]

Kobe: 1,141/828 = 1.38 assists to turnovers, first five seasons
Ant: 1,600/1,099 = 1.46 assists to turnovers, first five seasons

Granted, neither one had great ratios, but that was not my question. My question was who had the better handle.

Subjective as it doesn't take into account the changes in the game...I would say Kobe developed better handles, but comparing that aspect is tough due to the way the game has altered.

I always saw Kobe as someone who could play either. That said, I agree the game is different today. Shaq was dominate inside which allowed for the inside out and the Lakers had a more dominant outside game than what was common. Even if we are generous and assume everything in favor of Klomp’s position, it doesn’t change the fact that a chip without a true PG is much less common than one with a true PG. Last year we saw how much the team struggled without Mike, this year I fear it will be worse with Mike older and no more NAW.

[Klomp]

Even if we are generous and assume everything in favor of Klomp’s position, it doesn’t change the fact that a chip without a true PG is much less common than one with a true PG. Last year we saw how much the team struggled without Mike, this year I fear it will be worse with Mike older and no more NAW.

See, I don't personally see it that way. I don't see Jrue Holiday as a "true PG". Heck, I don't see SGA as a "true PG." Incredible players, but personally I see them as combo guards.

Do you know who the last NBA championship POINT GUARD was to average 7.0 assists per game in his championship season?

Spoiler:

Jason Kidd - 7.3 apg during the 2011 playoffs


Other players to reach it in that time:
Draymond x3
Jokic
LeBron

So no, I don't agree that you need a "true PG" to win a title. In the last three postseasons, Ant has averaged 5.9 assists per game combined. "True PG" Mike Conley has a postseason career assist average of 6.0, for the record.

[frankenwolf]

Here's a doozy:

Atl IN: Rudy, RD, Da Silva, and Miller
OUT: Young, '26 FRP (via SAS), future SRP

ORL IN: DDV and future SRP
OUT: BogaBit and Da Silva

MN IN: Young, Bogabit, and '26 FRP (SAS)
OUT: Rudy, DDV, RD, and Miller

Young/Mike
Ant/TSJ/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Randle/Naz
Bogabit/JB

No
Nope
Negative
Nyet

[minimus]

No
Nope
Negative
Nyet

Nyet blyat

[Wolveswin]

I think Melo Ball is the PG worthy of Wolves going all-in for. He has his warts, but his age, upside, and roster fit check the boxes. He also is ‘available’. With available meaning on a team going into a tank season, warts make him somewhat affordable (within Wolves limited assets/affordability range), and Hornets for right price may move Melo.

Simple concept the trade…

To 3rd team: Randle (or Gobert), DDV

To Hornets: Dillingham, assets/filler from 3rd team

To Wolves: Melo Ball, filler

[dschroeder01]

I think Melo Ball is the PG worthy of Wolves going all-in for. He has his warts, but his age, upside, and roster fit check the boxes. He also is ‘available’. With available meaning on a team going into a tank season, warts make him somewhat affordable (within Wolves limited assets/affordability range), and Hornets for right price may move Melo.

Simple concept the trade…

To 3rd team: Randle (or Gobert), DDV

To Hornets: Dillingham, assets/filler from 3rd team

To Wolves: Melo Ball, filler

Ball really doesn't seem like a player that Connelly would like.

I get that in a vacuum he's really talented. He's extremely high risk though. He can't stay healthy and he's never shown that he wants to be a serious basketball player. He led the league in usage last year at over 35% which means taking the ball out of Ant's hands a lot.