Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[Wolveswin]

I think Melo Ball is the PG worthy of Wolves going all-in for. He has his warts, but his age, upside, and roster fit check the boxes. He also is ‘available’. With available meaning on a team going into a tank season, warts make him somewhat affordable (within Wolves limited assets/affordability range), and Hornets for right price may move Melo.

Simple concept the trade…

To 3rd team: Randle (or Gobert), DDV

To Hornets: Dillingham, assets/filler from 3rd team

To Wolves: Melo Ball, filler

Ball really doesn't seem like a player that Connelly would like.

I get that in a vacuum he's really talented. He's extremely high risk though. He can't stay healthy and he's never shown that he wants to be a serious basketball player. He led the league in usage last year at over 35% which means taking the ball out of Ant's hands a lot.

Ball Being a Connelly guy or not I won’t comment on because only Connelly would know that.

Usage as best player on tanking team doesn’t translate to starting PG on a championship determined team. Ball was billed/pegged as a do it all PG. For both things to happen, 1) Ball’s game adapting to his new environment and 2) Wolves figuring out how to stagger Edwards/Ball PT as need - both seem like very easy work for a competent franchise (Wolves claim to be).

Note: not calling Edwards, Jordan or Ball, Harper. But they made it work. Professionals who made adjustments in new situation. At the time, trading for a scorer in injury history Harper was a head scratcher, next to Jordan.

Is Ball perfect? Nope. No such PG for Wolves at this stage in roster building. Wolves are looking for perfect on a sliding scale.

[minimus]

It is wrong Ball brother. One you avoid at all costs, another you would love to get.

[cmoss84]

Here's a doozy:

Atl IN: Rudy, RD, Da Silva, and Miller
OUT: Young, '26 FRP (via SAS), future SRP

ORL IN: DDV and future SRP
OUT: BogaBit and Da Silva

MN IN: Young, Bogabit, and '26 FRP (SAS)
OUT: Rudy, DDV, RD, and Miller

Young/Mike
Ant/TSJ/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Randle/Naz
Bogabit/JB

No
Nope
Negative
Nyet

Any feedback as to why?

[dschroeder01]

Ball Being a Connelly guy or not I won’t comment on because only Connelly would know that.

Technically true. I think it's fair to comment on how things seem though. Connelly has stressed many times about how he values character as far as winning traits. From all the context and clues we have available to us, do you think he seems like a guy that Connelly would invest in? What kind of pro does Ball seem to be?

Usage as best player on tanking team doesn’t translate to starting PG on a championship determined team. Ball was billed/pegged as a do it all PG. For both things to happen, 1) Ball’s game adapting to his new environment and 2) Wolves figuring out how to stagger Edwards/Ball PT as need - both seem like very easy work for a competent franchise (Wolves claim to be).

Note: not calling Edwards, Jordan or Ball, Harper. But they made it work. Professionals who made adjustments in new situation. At the time, trading for a scorer in injury history Harper was a head scratcher, next to Jordan.

A huge part of the reason Ball would be available is because of he doesn't seem to be "a professional." The Hornets know him better than anyone and if they're willing to deal him for a price we could afford it should speak volumes. I admit ignorance, but I wasn't aware that Harper had professionalism concerns prior to the Bulls. It's one thing for a numbers guy to fall in line next to a star if they're known to be a professional. For example, I had no doubt that Kevin Love would be able to adapt to playing well with LeBron because Love was a professional as far as his commitment to his game/winning. The Wolves didn't dump Love the way Charlotte would be dumping Ball.

Is Ball perfect? Nope. No such PG for Wolves at this stage in roster building. Wolves are looking for perfect on a sliding scale.

I guess I don't see the Wolves needing "a PG" in the traditional sense. I'm in the Jake Paynting school of thought that Ant is functionally the PG given his usage. To me, what the Wolves need are more/better players at any position that can create offense playing off of Ant.

[BlacJacMac]

At the time, trading for a scorer in injury history Harper was a head scratcher, next to Jordan.

That's not what happened. Harper signed with the Bulls on September 15, 1994 to be Jordan's replacement.

Jordan eventually quit baseball in March of 1995 and rejoined the Bulls (who had retired his number 6 months earlier) later that month.

[KGdaBom]

Here's a doozy:

Atl IN: Rudy, RD, Da Silva, and Miller
OUT: Young, '26 FRP (via SAS), future SRP

ORL IN: DDV and future SRP
OUT: BogaBit and Da Silva

MN IN: Young, Bogabit, and '26 FRP (SAS)
OUT: Rudy, DDV, RD, and Miller

Young/Mike
Ant/TSJ/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Randle/Naz
Bogabit/JB

No
Nope
Negative
Nyet

Any feedback as to why?

I gave him a +1 so I'll reply. Young is not known to be a winning ball player. Rudy and DDV are known to be winning basketball players.

[cmoss84]

No
Nope
Negative
Nyet

Any feedback as to why?

I gave him a +1 so I'll reply. Young is not known to be a winning ball player. Rudy and DDV are known to be winning basketball players.

Are you saying you don't trust Young TO BE a winning player on this roster? Is Randle a winning player?
We aren't going to beat OKC if we run it back.
Both Young and DDV are chuckers...We would be sacrificing defense for PG playmaking. And TSJ is ready to take the minutes.
2 years of Young in his prime. Taking pressure off everyone on the offensive side. We have enough team defense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. No?
You don't think GogaBit and JB can handle the C position?
I could easily see Young playing winning basketball...20 and 10.
Thanks for the conversation BTW!

[BlacJacMac]

Any feedback as to why?

I gave him a +1 so I'll reply. Young is not known to be a winning ball player. Rudy and DDV are known to be winning basketball players.

Are you saying you don't trust Young TO BE a winning player on this roster? Is Randle a winning player?
We aren't going to beat OKC if we run it back.
Both Young and DDV are chuckers...We would be sacrificing defense for PG playmaking. And TSJ is ready to take the minutes.
2 years of Young in his prime. Taking pressure off everyone on the offensive side. We have enough team defense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. No?
You don't think GogaBit and JB can handle the C position?
I could easily see Young playing winning basketball...20 and 10.
Thanks for the conversation BTW!

I'm not a Young fan.

He's actually smaller than Dilly and doesn't even try to defend. Who is he going to slow down on OKC? They'll hunt him to the point we may have to bench him.

He's a great playmaker and gets to the line a lot, but he's just a 42/35 shooter.

I may be Goga's biggest fan on this board, but he's never averaged more than 20 MPG for a season. So even if he can bump up to 30-32 (and based on last year's game logs, he probably can), you're still asking a lot from Joan from Game 1.

[KGdaBom]

Any feedback as to why?

I gave him a +1 so I'll reply. Young is not known to be a winning ball player. Rudy and DDV are known to be winning basketball players.

Are you saying you don't trust Young TO BE a winning player on this roster? Is Randle a winning player?
We aren't going to beat OKC if we run it back.
Both Young and DDV are chuckers...We would be sacrificing defense for PG playmaking. And TSJ is ready to take the minutes.
2 years of Young in his prime. Taking pressure off everyone on the offensive side. We have enough team defense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. No?
You don't think GogaBit and JB can handle the C position?
I could easily see Young playing winning basketball...20 and 10.
Thanks for the conversation BTW!

I have my doubts about Young contributing more on offense than he gives up on defense.

[cmoss84]

Guess who has the most assists in the NBA since 2020 (and by a wide margin)?
I see him elevating everyone's offense.

[cmoss84]

I gave him a +1 so I'll reply. Young is not known to be a winning ball player. Rudy and DDV are known to be winning basketball players.

Are you saying you don't trust Young TO BE a winning player on this roster? Is Randle a winning player?
We aren't going to beat OKC if we run it back.
Both Young and DDV are chuckers...We would be sacrificing defense for PG playmaking. And TSJ is ready to take the minutes.
2 years of Young in his prime. Taking pressure off everyone on the offensive side. We have enough team defense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. No?
You don't think GogaBit and JB can handle the C position?
I could easily see Young playing winning basketball...20 and 10.
Thanks for the conversation BTW!

I'm not a Young fan.

He's actually smaller than Dilly and doesn't even try to defend. Who is he going to slow down on OKC? They'll hunt him to the point we may have to bench him.

He's a great playmaker and gets to the line a lot, but he's just a 42/35 shooter.

I may be Goga's biggest fan on this board, but he's never averaged more than 20 MPG for a season. So even if he can bump up to 30-32 (and based on last year's game logs, he probably can), you're still asking a lot from Joan from Game 1.

I'm just not ready to compare Rob to a 25/10 PG who can shoot. Hunt him down...as opposed to Mike and Rob?
Center can be creatively taken care of...
Goga
JB
Naz
Randle
Jaden
2ways

[Note30]

I'm cool with Randle and DDV for Young. If we're trading Rudy, we better get Daniels and Okugwagu back.

[Wolveswin]

At the time, trading for a scorer in injury history Harper was a head scratcher, next to Jordan.

That's not what happened. Harper signed with the Bulls on September 15, 1994 to be Jordan's replacement.

Jordan eventually quit baseball in March of 1995 and rejoined the Bulls (who had retired his number 6 months earlier) later that month.

Ahhh yes - Harper was a free agent. Point hold true. Harper and Jordan despite their “would they fit” got to be pretty good as professionals who figured it out.

[Wolveswin]

Ball Being a Connelly guy or not I won’t comment on because only Connelly would know that.

Technically true. I think it's fair to comment on how things seem though. Connelly has stressed many times about how he values character as far as winning traits. From all the context and clues we have available to us, do you think he seems like a guy that Connelly would invest in? What kind of pro does Ball seem to be?

Usage as best player on tanking team doesn’t translate to starting PG on a championship determined team. Ball was billed/pegged as a do it all PG. For both things to happen, 1) Ball’s game adapting to his new environment and 2) Wolves figuring out how to stagger Edwards/Ball PT as need - both seem like very easy work for a competent franchise (Wolves claim to be).

Note: not calling Edwards, Jordan or Ball, Harper. But they made it work. Professionals who made adjustments in new situation. At the time, trading for a scorer in injury history Harper was a head scratcher, next to Jordan.

A huge part of the reason Ball would be available is because of he doesn't seem to be "a professional." The Hornets know him better than anyone and if they're willing to deal him for a price we could afford it should speak volumes. I admit ignorance, but I wasn't aware that Harper had professionalism concerns prior to the Bulls. It's one thing for a numbers guy to fall in line next to a star if they're known to be a professional. For example, I had no doubt that Kevin Love would be able to adapt to playing well with LeBron because Love was a professional as far as his commitment to his game/winning. The Wolves didn't dump Love the way Charlotte would be dumping Ball.

Is Ball perfect? Nope. No such PG for Wolves at this stage in roster building. Wolves are looking for perfect on a sliding scale.

I guess I don't see the Wolves needing "a PG" in the traditional sense. I'm in the Jake Paynting school of thought that Ant is functionally the PG given his usage. To me, what the Wolves need are more/better players at any position that can create offense playing off of Ant.

I too don’t think Wolves need a traditional PG. Ball is a big PG. A non traditional PG. I guess your reservation is can he play ‘off’ Edwards. And he can with his skill set. Play good D and not have to have ball in hand. But when they stagger him with Edwards still run the game when needed. Exactly what Wolves need.

[KGdaBom]

Guess who has the most assists in the NBA since 2020 (and by a wide margin)?
I see him elevating everyone's offense.

I would guess young by a wide margin. He's an excellent ball handler/assist man. A great scorer, but not efficient.

[Norseman79]

It's amazing how many player that gets mentioned as a possible PG just gets shredded on here. First up, we are at the point where an avg starter would likely be an upgrade...avg. Next, Wolves have 1 star, 1, it's Edwards. People can talk up Randle, Rudy, Etc all they want, but it's Edwards and then a big gap. The idea of giving up Randle, Rudy, etc to get a starting PG might be a shell game in some ways, but it's not like our current team's floor would change that much if we did something (obviously not stupid like Gobert for Tyus Jones type of stuff). This player's efficiency, that players shot, this player's size, that player's defense.....my God, you aren't getting a perfect player back and Randle, Rudy, etc aren't getting you a top 5 or 10 guy, unless there is a big concern.

I would make a push to get a Simons/Hauser package done, and I would use Randle/DD to do it. I know people hate Simons, I'm just telling you I think he unlocks with Finch playing next to Edwards.

[KGdaBom]

It's amazing how many player that gets mentioned as a possible PG just gets shredded on here. First up, we are at the point where an avg starter would likely be an upgrade...avg. Next, Wolves have 1 star, 1, it's Edwards. People can talk up Randle, Rudy, Etc all they want, but it's Edwards and then a big gap. The idea of giving up Randle, Rudy, etc to get a starting PG might be a shell game in some ways, but it's not like our current team's floor would change that much if we did something (obviously not stupid like Gobert for Tyus Jones type of stuff). This player's efficiency, that players shot, this player's size, that player's defense.....my God, you aren't getting a perfect player back and Randle, Rudy, etc aren't getting you a top 5 or 10 guy, unless there is a big concern.

I would make a push to get a Simons/Hauser package done, and I would use Randle/DD to do it. I know people hate Simons, I'm just telling you I think he unlocks with Finch playing next to Edwards.

I'm going to continue the shredding of the possible PGs. Simon's is virtually worthless and you're talking about giving up our 2nd star and one of the best volume 3 point shooters in the NBA to get him???????????

[BlacJacMac]

Are you saying you don't trust Young TO BE a winning player on this roster? Is Randle a winning player?
We aren't going to beat OKC if we run it back.
Both Young and DDV are chuckers...We would be sacrificing defense for PG playmaking. And TSJ is ready to take the minutes.
2 years of Young in his prime. Taking pressure off everyone on the offensive side. We have enough team defense to make up for his defensive deficiencies. No?
You don't think GogaBit and JB can handle the C position?
I could easily see Young playing winning basketball...20 and 10.
Thanks for the conversation BTW!

I'm not a Young fan.

He's actually smaller than Dilly and doesn't even try to defend. Who is he going to slow down on OKC? They'll hunt him to the point we may have to bench him.

He's a great playmaker and gets to the line a lot, but he's just a 42/35 shooter.

I may be Goga's biggest fan on this board, but he's never averaged more than 20 MPG for a season. So even if he can bump up to 30-32 (and based on last year's game logs, he probably can), you're still asking a lot from Joan from Game 1.

I'm just not ready to compare Rob to a 25/10 PG who can shoot. Hunt him down...as opposed to Mike and Rob?
Center can be creatively taken care of...
Goga
JB
Naz
Randle
Jaden
2ways

Yes. Mike spent most of his career as a solid defender despite his size. And Rob actually puts in considerable effort on that end. He'll get better as he learns technique.

Young is a true turnstile. One of the worst defenders in the game.

And he's a 42/35 shooter because he has horrific shot selection.

[TimberKat]

I'm not a Young fan.

He's actually smaller than Dilly and doesn't even try to defend. Who is he going to slow down on OKC? They'll hunt him to the point we may have to bench him.

He's a great playmaker and gets to the line a lot, but he's just a 42/35 shooter.

I may be Goga's biggest fan on this board, but he's never averaged more than 20 MPG for a season. So even if he can bump up to 30-32 (and based on last year's game logs, he probably can), you're still asking a lot from Joan from Game 1.

I'm just not ready to compare Rob to a 25/10 PG who can shoot. Hunt him down...as opposed to Mike and Rob?
Center can be creatively taken care of...
Goga
JB
Naz
Randle
Jaden
2ways

Yes. Mike spent most of his career as a solid defender despite his size. And Rob actually puts in considerable effort on that end. He'll get better as he learns technique.

Young is a true turnstile. One of the worst defenders in the game.

And he's a 42/35 shooter because he has horrific shot selection.

I am not sure in what context would we prefer Dilly over Young. We aren't talking about keep SGA instead of PG. Young is also not Beal either. If we could get him to pair with Ant, I am sure we could find a way to build around them.

[KGdaBom]

I'm just not ready to compare Rob to a 25/10 PG who can shoot. Hunt him down...as opposed to Mike and Rob?
Center can be creatively taken care of...
Goga
JB
Naz
Randle
Jaden
2ways

Yes. Mike spent most of his career as a solid defender despite his size. And Rob actually puts in considerable effort on that end. He'll get better as he learns technique.

Young is a true turnstile. One of the worst defenders in the game.

And he's a 42/35 shooter because he has horrific shot selection.

I am not sure in what context would we prefer Dilly over Young. We aren't talking about keep SGA instead of PG. Young is also not Beal either. If we could get him to pair with Ant, I am sure we could find a way to build around them.

If we could have Trae Young for Dilly I'd help Dilly pack his bags, but we can't. Even if they would trade him to us for Dilly that trade would not be allowed due to salary cap considerations. What is being suggested is we give give up Randle, DDV and Dilly or something like that. Too rich for me.