Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[Crazy-Canuck]

Easiest way to include derozan for jk is to wait for the trade deadline.

Jk extends at a 20+/year number.

He goes to sac.
Can play pf with Keegan at the 3.

Derozan goes to the Heat.
Heat have had interest for a while.

Wiggins goes to the warriors.
Obvious reasons here.

[jbk1234]

Am I the only one who thinks a team will pay the Nets to facilitate cap and offer Kuminga 25 million per season?

I think the holdup is the Warriors are threatening to match unless they get serious assets.

So teams don't want to pay one 1st plus 1 prospect for the privilege of paying Kuminga 25 million per. Then paying the Nets for cap.

Someone may price him out of GS.

If a team wants to offer Kuminga $25M, then they should do the trade with the Nets, present the offer sheet, and call the Warriors bluff. Maybe offer a 2nd and TPE not to match.

Procedurally, a TPE just automatically happens if a player is traded and no player / salary is received in return. There is no such thing as “offering a TPE”……

I’m not necessarily convinced the Warriors wouldn’t match that anyway. They seem to want to keep a salary slot of that amount (give or take) open in order to keep alive the possibility of trading for another player with a big salary, without trading any of Curry, Butler, or Draymond. There is certainly a “walk away number” above which the Warriors wouldn’t say “okay…… he’s all yours”. But I’m not sure it’s at $25M.

Once an offer sheet is signed, the Warriors options are matching it, not matching it, or asking the other team to execute a S&T.

[tester551]

If a team wants to offer Kuminga $25M, then they should do the trade with the Nets, present the offer sheet, and call the Warriors bluff. Maybe offer a 2nd and TPE not to match.

Procedurally, a TPE just automatically happens if a player is traded and no player / salary is received in return. There is no such thing as “offering a TPE”……

I’m not necessarily convinced the Warriors wouldn’t match that anyway. They seem to want to keep a salary slot of that amount (give or take) open in order to keep alive the possibility of trading for another player with a big salary, without trading any of Curry, Butler, or Draymond. There is certainly a “walk away number” above which the Warriors wouldn’t say “okay…… he’s all yours”. But I’m not sure it’s at $25M.

Once an offer sheet is signed, the Warriors options are matching it, not matching it, or asking the other team to execute a S&T.

I'm 95% sure that once an offer is signed from another team -> any S&T options are gone. Warrior's only options would be to 1) Match or 2) Not match.

[MasterIchiro]

Procedurally, a TPE just automatically happens if a player is traded and no player / salary is received in return. There is no such thing as “offering a TPE”……

I’m not necessarily convinced the Warriors wouldn’t match that anyway. They seem to want to keep a salary slot of that amount (give or take) open in order to keep alive the possibility of trading for another player with a big salary, without trading any of Curry, Butler, or Draymond. There is certainly a “walk away number” above which the Warriors wouldn’t say “okay…… he’s all yours”. But I’m not sure it’s at $25M.

Once an offer sheet is signed, the Warriors options are matching it, not matching it, or asking the other team to execute a S&T.

I'm 95% sure that once an offer is signed from another team -> any S&T options are gone. Warrior's only options would be to 1) Match or 2) Not match.

The match is the sign, and the trade can follow the match/sign.

[ChuckDurn]

If a team wants to offer Kuminga $25M, then they should do the trade with the Nets, present the offer sheet, and call the Warriors bluff. Maybe offer a 2nd and TPE not to match.

Procedurally, a TPE just automatically happens if a player is traded and no player / salary is received in return. There is no such thing as “offering a TPE”……

I’m not necessarily convinced the Warriors wouldn’t match that anyway. They seem to want to keep a salary slot of that amount (give or take) open in order to keep alive the possibility of trading for another player with a big salary, without trading any of Curry, Butler, or Draymond. There is certainly a “walk away number” above which the Warriors wouldn’t say “okay…… he’s all yours”. But I’m not sure it’s at $25M.

Once an offer sheet is signed, the Warriors options are matching it, not matching it, or asking the other team to execute a S&T.

Relevance, as it pertains to my comment?

[giberish]

Once an offer sheet is signed, the Warriors options are matching it, not matching it, or asking the other team to execute a S&T.

I'm 95% sure that once an offer is signed from another team -> any S&T options are gone. Warrior's only options would be to 1) Match or 2) Not match.

The match is the sign, and the trade can follow the match/sign.

Actually it can't.

Once an official offer sheet is signed then it's either match or walk.

What usually happens (especially for early deals when nothing can be official for a few days) is that there is a contract agreement that isn't officially signed. At that point a S&T deal can be worked out - or if it can't be worked out then you get the offer sheet signed and see of the old team matches.

[penbeast0]

My apologies to all. Forgot GS can only take half Kuminga's salary back. Appreciate the ideas.

[Sactowndog]

They don’t want Kuminga at the number he wants. Which is fine, I don’t think anyone else, including the Kings, want him at that price point either. If they do, then it’s ridiculous to haggle over Keon Ellis imo.

Regardless, it’s not about the Warriors wanting Kuminga, it’s about the Kings wanting him.

The Carter deal is the worst option-depending on the protections on the first.

Re-signing him to a short around 3 year deal around $20 mil is better than Carter
Letting him walk for nothing and opening the NPTMLE of $14 mil likely nets a better player(s) than Carter.
The possibility of him taking the QO is a bluff the Warriors seem willing to call

My read is that GS doesn't really want him. They want to sign him at a contract they feel he is still tradable at the deadline.

And if GS feels that way, they should renounce him and move forward with the Full MLE. Go sign Horford, go sign Brogdon/Payton or whoever.

I'm okay with taking a chance that Kuminga grows as a player at the right price. But realistically, If I was the GM I laugh at giving a 1st for the right to pay this guy. Not a known defender, 4 years in and still not a shooter. What exactly is his best quality? He's 6'8 and still relatively young.

I maintain, if the Kings org is stupid enough to give a 1st and Carter for Kuminga, Dunleavy would be a fool not to accept that. To me that's better than whatever they can get for MLE at this point. And at the deadline you can flip some combo with some picks for a player who can actually contribute to a potential run this year.

IMO, They need the things he brings and are willing to give him a chance next year (especially with the likely time guys like Steph and Jimmy will miss) while understanding he may not come around.

Either way, he’s an asset that you don’t give away for nothing or a low return.

The Carter deal is all about the first, which from what I’ve seen in Sac media is a first in name only. Protected enough that the likely scenario is it turns into a second or two. If that’s the case, I’ll take a chance that a Kuminga at around $20 gets a better return in January. Heck, go back to the Kings and talk Derozan then.

IMO, GS and Sac have been negotiating. Sac started at Carter/Saric/seconds, GS countered with Murray. Neither side likely thought either would be accepted. Sac moved up to a protected first, GS moved down to Ellis. My guess is the next step is either protections on the first get lowered or Ellis gets added and the protections remain.

Or JK re-ups with GS

I don’t think JK re ups with GS. To me it feels personal with him at this point. Bringing in Butler and leaving him on the bench for the play-offs sealed the deal.

Guessing he “plays” for the qualifying offer. I put “plays” because he may well sit out to avoid injury.

[NW]

My read is that GS doesn't really want him. They want to sign him at a contract they feel he is still tradable at the deadline.

And if GS feels that way, they should renounce him and move forward with the Full MLE. Go sign Horford, go sign Brogdon/Payton or whoever.

I'm okay with taking a chance that Kuminga grows as a player at the right price. But realistically, If I was the GM I laugh at giving a 1st for the right to pay this guy. Not a known defender, 4 years in and still not a shooter. What exactly is his best quality? He's 6'8 and still relatively young.

I maintain, if the Kings org is stupid enough to give a 1st and Carter for Kuminga, Dunleavy would be a fool not to accept that. To me that's better than whatever they can get for MLE at this point. And at the deadline you can flip some combo with some picks for a player who can actually contribute to a potential run this year.

IMO, They need the things he brings and are willing to give him a chance next year (especially with the likely time guys like Steph and Jimmy will miss) while understanding he may not come around.

Either way, he’s an asset that you don’t give away for nothing or a low return.

The Carter deal is all about the first, which from what I’ve seen in Sac media is a first in name only. Protected enough that the likely scenario is it turns into a second or two. If that’s the case, I’ll take a chance that a Kuminga at around $20 gets a better return in January. Heck, go back to the Kings and talk Derozan then.

IMO, GS and Sac have been negotiating. Sac started at Carter/Saric/seconds, GS countered with Murray. Neither side likely thought either would be accepted. Sac moved up to a protected first, GS moved down to Ellis. My guess is the next step is either protections on the first get lowered or Ellis gets added and the protections remain.

Or JK re-ups with GS

I don’t think JK re ups with GS. To me it feels personal with him at this point. Bringing in Butler and leaving him on the bench for the play-offs sealed the deal.

Guessing he “plays” for the qualifying offer. I put “plays” because he may well sit out to avoid injury.

It’s always business over personal imo, and the QO is just too risky. JK and his people will say it’s an option, but I call that bluff if I’m GS

[LightTheBeam]

They don’t want Kuminga at the number he wants. Which is fine, I don’t think anyone else, including the Kings, want him at that price point either. If they do, then it’s ridiculous to haggle over Keon Ellis imo.

Regardless, it’s not about the Warriors wanting Kuminga, it’s about the Kings wanting him.

The Carter deal is the worst option-depending on the protections on the first.

Re-signing him to a short around 3 year deal around $20 mil is better than Carter
Letting him walk for nothing and opening the NPTMLE of $14 mil likely nets a better player(s) than Carter.
The possibility of him taking the QO is a bluff the Warriors seem willing to call

My read is that GS doesn't really want him. They want to sign him at a contract they feel he is still tradable at the deadline.

And if GS feels that way, they should renounce him and move forward with the Full MLE. Go sign Horford, go sign Brogdon/Payton or whoever.

I'm okay with taking a chance that Kuminga grows as a player at the right price. But realistically, If I was the GM I laugh at giving a 1st for the right to pay this guy. Not a known defender, 4 years in and still not a shooter. What exactly is his best quality? He's 6'8 and still relatively young.

I maintain, if the Kings org is stupid enough to give a 1st and Carter for Kuminga, Dunleavy would be a fool not to accept that. To me that's better than whatever they can get for MLE at this point. And at the deadline you can flip some combo with some picks for a player who can actually contribute to a potential run this year.

IMO, They need the things he brings and are willing to give him a chance next year (especially with the likely time guys like Steph and Jimmy will miss) while understanding he may not come around.

Either way, he’s an asset that you don’t give away for nothing or a low return.

The Carter deal is all about the first, which from what I’ve seen in Sac media is a first in name only. Protected enough that the likely scenario is it turns into a second or two. If that’s the case, I’ll take a chance that a Kuminga at around $20 gets a better return in January. Heck, go back to the Kings and talk Derozan then.

IMO, GS and Sac have been negotiating. Sac started at Carter/Saric/seconds, GS countered with Murray. Neither side likely thought either would be accepted. Sac moved up to a protected first, GS moved down to Ellis. My guess is the next step is either protections on the first get lowered or Ellis gets added and the protections remain.

Or JK re-ups with GS

What exactly does he bring? He's a scorer who scored with pretty terrible efficiency last year. It took absolute panic mode for Kerr to be willing to use him. He doesn't shoot which considering you have Green/Butler, seems like an absolute mandatory skill set for anyone else to get real minutes. They clearly like Podz/Buddy/Moody over him. Seems fairly likely Payton is back and also plays ahead of him.

Maybe he helps give an off-day here or there to Butler, but hes not a real replacement in that aspect, and come playoff time he will find himself DNP again. It's hard to find 24mpg for him again this year, and that's not considering hes been vocal he wants a bigger role. Him returning to the Warriors seems like the worst case scenario for Warriors fans. He will absolutely sandbag and sulk, he will be impossible to trade as we are seeing a lot of guys with that salary being considered negatives.

Again. I personally wouldn't give any 1st or Keon, let alone both which is pretty laughable. But Kings are a trash org, so I'm going to guess if it does happen it will be a weak protected 1st and no Keon. But we will see, they continue to surprise me with how awful their decision making is.

[LightTheBeam]

Read on Twitter

This random Warriors account seems to break it down. At what point does Horford/Melton/Payton and whoever else they are talking to just go elsewhere? Horford has other suitors, Payton I'm sure could find a role on several teams. I think Dunleavy is quietly telling these guys Kuminga will be gone we are just hoping one of these teams crack.

[NW]

Read on Twitter

This random Warriors account seems to break it down. At what point does Horford/Melton/Payton and whoever else they are talking to just go elsewhere? Horford has other suitors, Payton I'm sure could find a role on several teams. I think Dunleavy is quietly telling these guys Kuminga will be gone we are just hoping one of these teams crack.

Not really a concern imo. Those guys seem good as long as they get their money, which seems a given. Whether Kuminga takes the offer GS made, the QO or gets S&T’d, the Warriors will have the money for them. Only reason they’re waiting is to avoid hard capping themselves before Kuminga makes a decision and some team swooping in with a deal that puts them over the cap and they can’t match.

Slim chance, but why risk it?

[NW]

My read is that GS doesn't really want him. They want to sign him at a contract they feel he is still tradable at the deadline.

And if GS feels that way, they should renounce him and move forward with the Full MLE. Go sign Horford, go sign Brogdon/Payton or whoever.

I'm okay with taking a chance that Kuminga grows as a player at the right price. But realistically, If I was the GM I laugh at giving a 1st for the right to pay this guy. Not a known defender, 4 years in and still not a shooter. What exactly is his best quality? He's 6'8 and still relatively young.

I maintain, if the Kings org is stupid enough to give a 1st and Carter for Kuminga, Dunleavy would be a fool not to accept that. To me that's better than whatever they can get for MLE at this point. And at the deadline you can flip some combo with some picks for a player who can actually contribute to a potential run this year.

IMO, They need the things he brings and are willing to give him a chance next year (especially with the likely time guys like Steph and Jimmy will miss) while understanding he may not come around.

Either way, he’s an asset that you don’t give away for nothing or a low return.

The Carter deal is all about the first, which from what I’ve seen in Sac media is a first in name only. Protected enough that the likely scenario is it turns into a second or two. If that’s the case, I’ll take a chance that a Kuminga at around $20 gets a better return in January. Heck, go back to the Kings and talk Derozan then.

IMO, GS and Sac have been negotiating. Sac started at Carter/Saric/seconds, GS countered with Murray. Neither side likely thought either would be accepted. Sac moved up to a protected first, GS moved down to Ellis. My guess is the next step is either protections on the first get lowered or Ellis gets added and the protections remain.

Or JK re-ups with GS

What exactly does he bring? He's a scorer who scored with pretty terrible efficiency last year. It took absolute panic mode for Kerr to be willing to use him. He doesn't shoot which considering you have Green/Butler, seems like an absolute mandatory skill set for anyone else to get real minutes. They clearly like Podz/Buddy/Moody over him. Seems fairly likely Payton is back and also plays ahead of him.

Maybe he helps give an off-day here or there to Butler, but hes not a real replacement in that aspect, and come playoff time he will find himself DNP again. It's hard to find 24mpg for him again this year, and that's not considering hes been vocal he wants a bigger role. Him returning to the Warriors seems like the worst case scenario for Warriors fans. He will absolutely sandbag and sulk, he will be impossible to trade as we are seeing a lot of guys with that salary being considered negatives.

Again. I personally wouldn't give any 1st or Keon, let alone both which is pretty laughable. But Kings are a trash org, so I'm going to guess if it does happen it will be a weak protected 1st and no Keon. But we will see, they continue to surprise me with how awful their decision making is.

Sandbag and sulking does nothing but hurt himself, especially under the likely scenario he takes a 2-3 year deal. He brings athleticism and downhill scoring ability the team doesn’t have. Like if he goes to Sac, he’s probably playing a lot of 4 so Podz and Buddy aren’t the same position and he likely plays ahead of Moody and GP2 if he stays.

[LightTheBeam]

IMO, They need the things he brings and are willing to give him a chance next year (especially with the likely time guys like Steph and Jimmy will miss) while understanding he may not come around.

Either way, he’s an asset that you don’t give away for nothing or a low return.

The Carter deal is all about the first, which from what I’ve seen in Sac media is a first in name only. Protected enough that the likely scenario is it turns into a second or two. If that’s the case, I’ll take a chance that a Kuminga at around $20 gets a better return in January. Heck, go back to the Kings and talk Derozan then.

IMO, GS and Sac have been negotiating. Sac started at Carter/Saric/seconds, GS countered with Murray. Neither side likely thought either would be accepted. Sac moved up to a protected first, GS moved down to Ellis. My guess is the next step is either protections on the first get lowered or Ellis gets added and the protections remain.

Or JK re-ups with GS

What exactly does he bring? He's a scorer who scored with pretty terrible efficiency last year. It took absolute panic mode for Kerr to be willing to use him. He doesn't shoot which considering you have Green/Butler, seems like an absolute mandatory skill set for anyone else to get real minutes. They clearly like Podz/Buddy/Moody over him. Seems fairly likely Payton is back and also plays ahead of him.

Maybe he helps give an off-day here or there to Butler, but hes not a real replacement in that aspect, and come playoff time he will find himself DNP again. It's hard to find 24mpg for him again this year, and that's not considering hes been vocal he wants a bigger role. Him returning to the Warriors seems like the worst case scenario for Warriors fans. He will absolutely sandbag and sulk, he will be impossible to trade as we are seeing a lot of guys with that salary being considered negatives.

Again. I personally wouldn't give any 1st or Keon, let alone both which is pretty laughable. But Kings are a trash org, so I'm going to guess if it does happen it will be a weak protected 1st and no Keon. But we will see, they continue to surprise me with how awful their decision making is.

Sandbag and sulking does nothing but hurt himself, especially under the likely scenario he takes a 2-3 year deal. He brings athleticism and downhill scoring ability the team doesn’t have. Like if he goes to Sac, he’s probably playing a lot of 4 so Podz and Buddy aren’t the same position and he likely plays ahead of Moody and GP2 if he stays.

We will see. In the playoffs Kuminga was getting DNP's while Moody and Payton played. I can't imagine sticking a lineup of Curry-Jimmy-Kuminga-Dray-Horford out there, poor curry with no shooting around him. And more than anything it feels like Kuminga wants a chance to play meaningful mins which he hasn't gotten so far in GS. So good luck saying "hey while healthy we don't really need you, but if Jimmy goes down, you are our guy!"

Just punching in last years numbers

Horford (28) Post (16) : 2
Dray (29) : 19
Jimmy (33): 15
Podz (27) Hield (23) : -2

You've got 34 mins left to go around, and 4 players who likely deserve mins. I'm sure Kuminga is going to be stoked in an even lessor role than what he had last year.

The writing is on the wall. I don't work for the Kings. But Kuminga going back to the Warriors would be nothing short of a disaster. They'd need to pay to move him by the deadline. He won't be happy. Locker room won't be happy. Dray/Jimmy will probably jump him by opening night. I just can't understand why the feet are so dug in on something like that lol. S&T just don't return good packages sadly.

[NW]

What exactly does he bring? He's a scorer who scored with pretty terrible efficiency last year. It took absolute panic mode for Kerr to be willing to use him. He doesn't shoot which considering you have Green/Butler, seems like an absolute mandatory skill set for anyone else to get real minutes. They clearly like Podz/Buddy/Moody over him. Seems fairly likely Payton is back and also plays ahead of him.

Maybe he helps give an off-day here or there to Butler, but hes not a real replacement in that aspect, and come playoff time he will find himself DNP again. It's hard to find 24mpg for him again this year, and that's not considering hes been vocal he wants a bigger role. Him returning to the Warriors seems like the worst case scenario for Warriors fans. He will absolutely sandbag and sulk, he will be impossible to trade as we are seeing a lot of guys with that salary being considered negatives.

Again. I personally wouldn't give any 1st or Keon, let alone both which is pretty laughable. But Kings are a trash org, so I'm going to guess if it does happen it will be a weak protected 1st and no Keon. But we will see, they continue to surprise me with how awful their decision making is.

Sandbag and sulking does nothing but hurt himself, especially under the likely scenario he takes a 2-3 year deal. He brings athleticism and downhill scoring ability the team doesn’t have. Like if he goes to Sac, he’s probably playing a lot of 4 so Podz and Buddy aren’t the same position and he likely plays ahead of Moody and GP2 if he stays.

We will see. In the playoffs Kuminga was getting DNP's while Moody and Payton played. I can't imagine sticking a lineup of Curry-Jimmy-Kuminga-Dray-Horford out there, poor curry with no shooting around him. And more than anything it feels like Kuminga wants a chance to play meaningful mins which he hasn't gotten so far in GS. So good luck saying "hey while healthy we don't really need you, but if Jimmy goes down, you are our guy!"

Just punching in last years numbers

Horford (28) Post (16) : 2
Dray (29) : 19
Jimmy (33): 15
Podz (27) Hield (23) : -2

You've got 34 mins left to go around, and 4 players who likely deserve mins. I'm sure Kuminga is going to be stoked in an even lessor role than what he had last year.

The writing is on the wall. I don't work for the Kings. But Kuminga going back to the Warriors would be nothing short of a disaster. They'd need to pay to move him by the deadline. He won't be happy. Locker room won't be happy. Dray/Jimmy will probably jump him by opening night. I just can't understand why the feet are so dug in on something like that lol. S&T just don't return good packages sadly.

In an effort to load manage, I expect Jimmy and Dray’s minutes to go down and open up more for JK. Sulking or playing gets him nothing when he hits FA again in a couple years or gets him traded faster than that.

S&T returns typically are limited by the leverage of another team that can make an offer sheet who the RFA can use as leverage. There are no teams left with money to use as leverage. And it’s not like the demanded return is a great package. We’re talking Keon Ellis here. Your 7-8 man who you probably won’t pay once you give Kuminga and Murray their money. No one’s taking Lavine (and he’s definitely exercising his option) or Monk off you hands. Derozan maybe you get an expiring for since his last year is a partial

[LightTheBeam]

Sandbag and sulking does nothing but hurt himself, especially under the likely scenario he takes a 2-3 year deal. He brings athleticism and downhill scoring ability the team doesn’t have. Like if he goes to Sac, he’s probably playing a lot of 4 so Podz and Buddy aren’t the same position and he likely plays ahead of Moody and GP2 if he stays.

We will see. In the playoffs Kuminga was getting DNP's while Moody and Payton played. I can't imagine sticking a lineup of Curry-Jimmy-Kuminga-Dray-Horford out there, poor curry with no shooting around him. And more than anything it feels like Kuminga wants a chance to play meaningful mins which he hasn't gotten so far in GS. So good luck saying "hey while healthy we don't really need you, but if Jimmy goes down, you are our guy!"

Just punching in last years numbers

Horford (28) Post (16) : 2
Dray (29) : 19
Jimmy (33): 15
Podz (27) Hield (23) : -2

You've got 34 mins left to go around, and 4 players who likely deserve mins. I'm sure Kuminga is going to be stoked in an even lessor role than what he had last year.

The writing is on the wall. I don't work for the Kings. But Kuminga going back to the Warriors would be nothing short of a disaster. They'd need to pay to move him by the deadline. He won't be happy. Locker room won't be happy. Dray/Jimmy will probably jump him by opening night. I just can't understand why the feet are so dug in on something like that lol. S&T just don't return good packages sadly.

In an effort to load manage, I expect Jimmy and Dray’s minutes to go down and open up more for JK. Sulking or playing gets him nothing when he hits FA again in a couple years or gets him traded faster than that.

S&T returns typically are limited by the leverage of another team that can make an offer sheet who the RFA can use as leverage. There are no teams left with money to use as leverage. And it’s not like the demanded return is a great package. We’re talking Keon Ellis here. Your 7-8 man who you probably won’t pay once you give Kuminga and Murray their money. No one’s taking Lavine (and he’s definitely exercising his option) or Monk off you hands. Derozan maybe you get an expiring for since his last year is a partial

Lol come on. Just because the previous GM was dumb enough to trade for LaVine and sign Demar, doesn't devalue Keon. Every team in the league would love that guy in the rotation. Keon impacts winning far more than Kuminga. If the Warriors manage to get Keon, that would be my last straw with the Kings.

If I had my choice, I'd buy out LaVine and trade Derozan for any expiring to start Keon.

[NW]

We will see. In the playoffs Kuminga was getting DNP's while Moody and Payton played. I can't imagine sticking a lineup of Curry-Jimmy-Kuminga-Dray-Horford out there, poor curry with no shooting around him. And more than anything it feels like Kuminga wants a chance to play meaningful mins which he hasn't gotten so far in GS. So good luck saying "hey while healthy we don't really need you, but if Jimmy goes down, you are our guy!"

Just punching in last years numbers

Horford (28) Post (16) : 2
Dray (29) : 19
Jimmy (33): 15
Podz (27) Hield (23) : -2

You've got 34 mins left to go around, and 4 players who likely deserve mins. I'm sure Kuminga is going to be stoked in an even lessor role than what he had last year.

The writing is on the wall. I don't work for the Kings. But Kuminga going back to the Warriors would be nothing short of a disaster. They'd need to pay to move him by the deadline. He won't be happy. Locker room won't be happy. Dray/Jimmy will probably jump him by opening night. I just can't understand why the feet are so dug in on something like that lol. S&T just don't return good packages sadly.

In an effort to load manage, I expect Jimmy and Dray’s minutes to go down and open up more for JK. Sulking or playing gets him nothing when he hits FA again in a couple years or gets him traded faster than that.

S&T returns typically are limited by the leverage of another team that can make an offer sheet who the RFA can use as leverage. There are no teams left with money to use as leverage. And it’s not like the demanded return is a great package. We’re talking Keon Ellis here. Your 7-8 man who you probably won’t pay once you give Kuminga and Murray their money. No one’s taking Lavine (and he’s definitely exercising his option) or Monk off you hands. Derozan maybe you get an expiring for since his last year is a partial

Lol come on. Just because the previous GM was dumb enough to trade for LaVine and sign Demar, doesn't devalue Keon. Every team in the league would love that guy in the rotation. Keon impacts winning far more than Kuminga. If the Warriors manage to get Keon, that would be my last straw with the Kings.

If I had my choice, I'd buy out LaVine and trade Derozan for any expiring to start Keon.

Kings devalued Keon with those moves. If where the team places Kuminga in the rotation has to be considered in value, same applies to Keon. What’s good for the goose……. Heck, Sac media has said Keon wasn’t thrilled with not giving him the QO so he could get paid for “flexibility” that ended up just being paying Dennis Schroder more money

Don’t disagree Keon is a more “winning” player than Kuminga, but Kuminga has the higher ceiling and the Kings aren’t winning anytime soon. Can argue the Kings need an asset with potential and GS needs a winner.

FTR, wouldn’t disagree with your Kings strategy either

[OGSactownballer]

In an effort to load manage, I expect Jimmy and Dray’s minutes to go down and open up more for JK. Sulking or playing gets him nothing when he hits FA again in a couple years or gets him traded faster than that.

S&T returns typically are limited by the leverage of another team that can make an offer sheet who the RFA can use as leverage. There are no teams left with money to use as leverage. And it’s not like the demanded return is a great package. We’re talking Keon Ellis here. Your 7-8 man who you probably won’t pay once you give Kuminga and Murray their money. No one’s taking Lavine (and he’s definitely exercising his option) or Monk off you hands. Derozan maybe you get an expiring for since his last year is a partial

Lol come on. Just because the previous GM was dumb enough to trade for LaVine and sign Demar, doesn't devalue Keon. Every team in the league would love that guy in the rotation. Keon impacts winning far more than Kuminga. If the Warriors manage to get Keon, that would be my last straw with the Kings.

If I had my choice, I'd buy out LaVine and trade Derozan for any expiring to start Keon.

Kings devalued Keon with those moves. If where the team places Kuminga in the rotation has to be considered in value, same applies to Keon. What’s good for the goose……. Heck, Sac media has said Keon wasn’t thrilled with not giving him the QO so he could get paid for “flexibility” that ended up just being paying Dennis Schroder more money

Don’t disagree Keon is a more “winning” player than Kuminga, but Kuminga has the higher ceiling and the Kings aren’t winning anytime soon. Can argue the Kings need an asset with potential and GS needs a winner.

FTR, wouldn’t disagree with your Kings strategy either

You didn’t pay attention to the fact that LTB said the current GM (Scott Perry) is NOT what we have had in the past. He’s not going to make the same kind of fools moves. And I am getting a strong feeling that he only agreed to take the job with a guarantee from Viv know absolutely NO interference.

Your premise of Levine opting in is one that no pundits either local or national agree with. He will opt out for a longer term deal worth more overall whether it is in Sac or elsewhere. And as a light up high quality scorer that can be hidden in a defense heavy lineup, someone will pay him.

And to the entire basis of the thread.

I actually am indifferent as to whether Kuminga comes to the Kings or not at this point. The Dubs have screwed up big time by allowing Kerr to roll with his anti young guy bias (only forwards and centers not mini guards of course) and painted themselves into a hard corner with what should have been a nice young asset. Now they are lucky they are even receiving offers. If his had been a normal year without the second apron scare and more teams with available cap, someone would have already offered more than the Dubs can afford to match and they would have lost him for nothing.

And the talk of Keon being included is all bay talk as far as everything is here in Sac. There is no reason or need to include him. Lightening the pick protections to top 20 or even lotto I can see and if Dunleavy doesn’t take that then he’s as dumb as the Butler extension is going to show him to be over it’s life.

[NW]

Lol come on. Just because the previous GM was dumb enough to trade for LaVine and sign Demar, doesn't devalue Keon. Every team in the league would love that guy in the rotation. Keon impacts winning far more than Kuminga. If the Warriors manage to get Keon, that would be my last straw with the Kings.

If I had my choice, I'd buy out LaVine and trade Derozan for any expiring to start Keon.

Kings devalued Keon with those moves. If where the team places Kuminga in the rotation has to be considered in value, same applies to Keon. What’s good for the goose……. Heck, Sac media has said Keon wasn’t thrilled with not giving him the QO so he could get paid for “flexibility” that ended up just being paying Dennis Schroder more money

Don’t disagree Keon is a more “winning” player than Kuminga, but Kuminga has the higher ceiling and the Kings aren’t winning anytime soon. Can argue the Kings need an asset with potential and GS needs a winner.

FTR, wouldn’t disagree with your Kings strategy either

You didn’t pay attention to the fact that LTB said the current GM (Scott Perry) is NOT what we have had in the past. He’s not going to make the same kind of fools moves. And I am getting a strong feeling that he only agreed to take the job with a guarantee from Viv know absolutely NO interference.

Your premise of Levine opting in is one that no pundits either local or national agree with. He will opt out for a longer term deal worth more overall whether it is in Sac or elsewhere. And as a light up high quality scorer that can be hidden in a defense heavy lineup, someone will pay him.

And to the entire basis of the thread.

I actually am indifferent as to whether Kuminga comes to the Kings or not at this point. The Dubs have screwed up big time by allowing Kerr to roll with his anti young guy bias (only forwards and centers not mini guards of course) and painted themselves into a hard corner with what should have been a nice young asset. Now they are lucky they are even receiving offers. If his had been a normal year without the second apron scare and more teams with available cap, someone would have already offered more than the Dubs can afford to match and they would have lost him for nothing.

And the talk of Keon being included is all bay talk as far as everything is here in Sac. There is no reason or need to include him. Lightening the pick protections to top 20 or even lotto I can see and if Dunleavy doesn’t take that then he’s as dumb as the Butler extension is going to show him to be over it’s life.

Kerr has a low IQ/don’t play the system bias. Not limited to young guys or bigs as Post and the myriad of backup PGs (heck even Saric) in recent years will attest to.

A long term deal for more for Lavine would likely be something similar to what Monk has now-which is a deal you guys can’t seem to move.

And this year is the normal year going forward. Maybe a few more teams have cap space, but they’ll be much more cautious with it than in the past imo

As far as Ellis, all the talk was coming from Sac-be it why they shouldn’t or why they should put him in the deal. Most Warriors media is resigned to JK coming back on the short deal. If he comes, great. If the Kings keep him and reduce the protection on the pick to something reasonable (mid lotto) that’s cool too.

[LightTheBeam]

In an effort to load manage, I expect Jimmy and Dray’s minutes to go down and open up more for JK. Sulking or playing gets him nothing when he hits FA again in a couple years or gets him traded faster than that.

S&T returns typically are limited by the leverage of another team that can make an offer sheet who the RFA can use as leverage. There are no teams left with money to use as leverage. And it’s not like the demanded return is a great package. We’re talking Keon Ellis here. Your 7-8 man who you probably won’t pay once you give Kuminga and Murray their money. No one’s taking Lavine (and he’s definitely exercising his option) or Monk off you hands. Derozan maybe you get an expiring for since his last year is a partial

Lol come on. Just because the previous GM was dumb enough to trade for LaVine and sign Demar, doesn't devalue Keon. Every team in the league would love that guy in the rotation. Keon impacts winning far more than Kuminga. If the Warriors manage to get Keon, that would be my last straw with the Kings.

If I had my choice, I'd buy out LaVine and trade Derozan for any expiring to start Keon.

Kings devalued Keon with those moves. If where the team places Kuminga in the rotation has to be considered in value, same applies to Keon. What’s good for the goose……. Heck, Sac media has said Keon wasn’t thrilled with not giving him the QO so he could get paid for “flexibility” that ended up just being paying Dennis Schroder more money

Don’t disagree Keon is a more “winning” player than Kuminga, but Kuminga has the higher ceiling and the Kings aren’t winning anytime soon. Can argue the Kings need an asset with potential and GS needs a winner.

FTR, wouldn’t disagree with your Kings strategy either

I'd argue that Keon is the kind of guy we saw every real contender prioritize at the 2spot. Didn't see a lot of Kuminga types in the playoffs, I'm still not sure exactly what his upside is? Brandon Ingram? I don't think Sac wants to go through a 4-5 year rebuild (even if they should).

Perry clearly hates LaVine, he went on a podcast tour bashing the guy before he became the GM. I doubt he's on the team after next deadline. DeRozan I doubt makes it through the whole year. I think signing Schroder was done to appease Sabonis/Vivek, and when we suck by the deadline, Sabonis will ask out and it will look like an entirely new team.

Keon, Keegan, Nique, Maxime, Issac Jones are the only guys i'd want sticking around. SChroder can be a stop gap.

Keon should and is still able to sign an extension starting at 18 million before February. Sac Media guys have hinted he knew this was coming. I think it was a stupid move to not keep our leverage and resign him as a RFA this off-season, but I think the GM is navigating appeasing an impatient terrible cheap owner, and re-tooling around winning players.