2025 Offseason Thread Vol.6

[VaDe255]

Cavaliers crush Heat in most lopsided series in NBA playoff history: Historic sweep by the numbers

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-crush-heat-in-most-lopsided-series-in-nba-playoff-history-historic-sweep-by-the-numbers/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

This is what I mean my friend

Right, because if it had been a close sweep, then obviously the banners would be going up and legacies would be saved!

They fought their way to the playoffs through adversity and lost in the first round that's all that really matters here. The rest is just narrative to make the team look a certain way for frustrated fans

What adversity? Jimmy Butler wanting to leave? The second the Heat realized they weren’t going to pay him what he wanted, they should have known he was going to want to leave given both: 1) their history of dealing with players that wanted to leave over money (Shaq and Wade) 2) Jimmy’s history of wanting the max deal

What adversity? An almost fully healthy team getting the worst defeat in nba playoff history?

What adversity? Losing Rozier to an ankle injury?

Is any of that **** adversity? Looks like poor personnel management and awful coaching to me. There was nothing to build on coming off the worst playoff performance in nba history. The team needs to fully rebuild. But it won’t cuz they probably think they succeeded through some self made adversity. Ridiculous nonsense.

I was on the reset train myself, but my opinion changed quite a bit once I started digging into draft data:

i) Only #1 picks fairly reliably turn into All-NBA guys, around 40% of the time.
ii) Picks 2–4 see a significant drop, down to the 10%-5% range
Outside of the top 4, the odds fall to about 2%-0.6%

What this means is that resetting and tanking doesn’t guarantee anything. You either need to win the lottery or get lucky with your pick

Yes, there are success stories, but there are just as many cautionary tales. Look at the Pistons, Magic, and Hornets, they’ve had consistent high lottery picks for years and still haven’t won a playoff series in over a decade.

Most recently, just take a look at the Jazz, they started their rebuild the right way, selling off Gobert and Mitchell for great returns. Now entering year 4, they’re still nowhere close.

I don’t want to see the Heat become irrelevant for 5+ years (which is what a reset likely means).

Also culture, environment, scouting and player development can offset draft position. We've seen it with Bam, Tyler and now there is already Ware (21y), Kasparas(19y) and Jovic(22y) in the pipeline. There’s already young talent to develop and by all looks they are going for a developmental year. All-NBA talent can come from anywhere, ironically the top 3 guys right now Jokic, Giannis, and SGA were all picked outside the top 10. It’s harder to find them the lower the pick is, sure, but not impossible.

On the topic of adversity, I don’t know how many teams could survive their best player quitting midseason, patching together a roster on the fly, still competing and going through two play-in games on the road as a 10 seed. That’s the definition of fighting through adversity, even if the end result is getting historically cooked by a more talented team

[contract]

Read on Twitter

Mentioned this deal a bunch of times. Rozier 26.6 for DeRozan 24.7 gets us out of the tax. DeRozan anchors the second unit scoring.

Isn't that Powell's job?

[carnageta]

If we land Derozan, it probably makes the most sense to start him and have Powell off of the bench. But if you start Derozan, I don't think you can also start Bam and Ware together because of the spacing. In this case, I think it would be more optimal to have Jovic start in place of Kel'el:

Herro
Derozan
Wiggins
Jovic
Bam

With a bench unit of

DMitchell
Powell
Larrson
Jaime/Fonteccio
Ware


KP, Keshad, Goldin, etc. all 3rd stringers.


This would be a deep team in which five (5) players could realistically score 20+ on any given night (Herro, Derozan, Wiggins, Bam, Powell). We'd still have the issue of not having a true #1 option, but history has shown that when you don't have an alpha, the second best thing is to have multiple betas.

[HeatGuyInChicago]

Their are a lot of backseat GMs on this forum. If you want two franchises that deserve this level of criticism, it would be Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. The Heat are a solidly run franchise.

The NBA is a business. If you are familiar with South Florida demographics, the fan turnout during rebuilding is terrible. So it should only be done if necessary. You have 2 years max to turn it back into a playoff contending. People in South Florida won't support losing. See the Marlins. Tank commanders will be out of a job in 2 years. Think about it. First you need to be lucky enough to secure top 3 picks in the draft lottery. Then you need to be lucky enough to draft two superstars. Keep in mind that the strength of the draft varies from year to year. Three mid-level draft picks will probably only get you solid support players.

The only fair criticism is the handling of the Jimmy Butler situation and the trading a first round pick for Rozier. The bottom line is Jimmy wanted his money, and the Heat were not going to give it to him at his price. I believe that was a good decision. What better trade package could have been had for Jimmy Butler? Does anyone think that we could have had 3 first round picks for a 37 year old Jimmy Butler. The Rozier trade seemed alright, but who could have predicted the sharp decline. The lesson learned is that the trading of a first round pick should only be done for superstars in this CBA or you have a championship contender and you are a piece away. For some reason the Heat, thought that Rozier would have been the final piece. I would not have done the deal, because I believe the team was an offensive star away not a support player away. I don't think it was a franchise destroying move though.

You don't trade for a superstar unless you field a team around the player, otherwise, you will have a disgruntle superstar.. You will have to trade him within two years if you can't field a championship competitive roster. The two year window is generous.

I don't believe Tyler is currently a max level. If he does not improve to superstar level this year, he should be traded to someone willing to give him his number. The Wizards payed dearly by paying Beal.

[Johnny Fontane]

Their are a lot of backseat GMs on this forum. If you want two franchises that deserve this level of criticism, it would be Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. The Heat are a solidly run franchise.

The NBA is a business. If you are familiar with South Florida demographics, the fan turnout during rebuilding is terrible. So it should only be done if necessary. You have 2 years max to turn it back into a playoff contending. People in South Florida won't support losing. See the Marlins. Tank commanders will be out of a job in 2 years. Think about it. First you need to be lucky enough to secure top 3 picks in the draft lottery. Then you need to be lucky enough to draft two superstars. Keep in mind that the strength of the draft varies from year to year. Three mid-level draft picks will probably only get you solid support players.

The only fair criticism is the handling of the Jimmy Butler situation and the trading a first round pick for Rozier. The bottom line is Jimmy wanted his money, and the Heat were not going to give it to him at his price. I believe that was a good decision. What better trade package could have been had for Jimmy Butler? Does anyone think that we could have had 3 first round picks for a 37 year old Jimmy Butler. The Rozier trade seemed alright, but who could have predicted the sharp decline. The lesson learned is that the trading of a first round pick should only be done for superstars in this CBA or you have a championship contender and you are a piece away. For some reason the Heat, thought that Rozier would have been the final piece. I would not have done the deal, because I believe the team was an offensive star away not a support player away. I don't think it was a franchise destroying move though.

You don't trade for a superstar unless you field a team around the player, otherwise, you will have a disgruntle superstar.. You will have to trade him in a within two years if you can't field a championship competitive roster. The two year window is generous.

I don't believe Tyler is currently a max level. If he does not improve to superstar level this year, he should be traded to someone willing to give him his number. The Wizards payed dearly by paying Beal.

I get it but it’s like is this the goal and ceiling of the team for the foreseeable future? Just good enough to treadmill?

In regards to Tyler. Seems like we’d be bidding against ourselves again here. Which other team would give him 50 million per season ESPECIALLY in this financial climate of the nba where you need to make smart savvy front office decisions to propel your franchise forward. I wouldn’t give him a dime over 35m per season based on what he gives us right now. Preferably would like to move him and not pay him at all as he single handedly gives the Heat a bad defensive identity around the league and cannot seem to raise his level when it matters.

[HeatFanLifer]

Right, because if it had been a close sweep, then obviously the banners would be going up and legacies would be saved!

They fought their way to the playoffs through adversity and lost in the first round that's all that really matters here. The rest is just narrative to make the team look a certain way for frustrated fans

What adversity? Jimmy Butler wanting to leave? The second the Heat realized they weren’t going to pay him what he wanted, they should have known he was going to want to leave given both: 1) their history of dealing with players that wanted to leave over money (Shaq and Wade) 2) Jimmy’s history of wanting the max deal

What adversity? An almost fully healthy team getting the worst defeat in nba playoff history?

What adversity? Losing Rozier to an ankle injury?

Is any of that **** adversity? Looks like poor personnel management and awful coaching to me. There was nothing to build on coming off the worst playoff performance in nba history. The team needs to fully rebuild. But it won’t cuz they probably think they succeeded through some self made adversity. Ridiculous nonsense.

Ya ya, they should've know that he was gonna throw tantrums after saying he would play out the season without the extension. They should've know that LeBron was gonna leave. They should've known that Beasley was a bust. And Windslow too. They should've known everything. Jeez, why this team don't know anything when 31 other teams know everything?! I just don't get it

Why did you make up a bunch of points that I sId after my first point? Terrible form of argument. You won an argument in your head bro. Congrats.

[Vertical Limit]

Their are a lot of backseat GMs on this forum. If you want two franchises that deserve this level of criticism, it would be Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. The Heat are a solidly run franchise.

The NBA is a business. If you are familiar with South Florida demographics, the fan turnout during rebuilding is terrible. So it should only be done if necessary. You have 2 years max to turn it back into a playoff contending. People in South Florida won't support losing. See the Marlins. Tank commanders will be out of a job in 2 years. Think about it. First you need to be lucky enough to secure top 3 picks in the draft lottery. Then you need to be lucky enough to draft two superstars. Keep in mind that the strength of the draft varies from year to year. Three mid-level draft picks will probably only get you solid support players.

The only fair criticism is the handling of the Jimmy Butler situation and the trading a first round pick for Rozier. The bottom line is Jimmy wanted his money, and the Heat were not going to give it to him at his price. I believe that was a good decision. What better trade package could have been had for Jimmy Butler? Does anyone think that we could have had 3 first round picks for a 37 year old Jimmy Butler. The Rozier trade seemed alright, but who could have predicted the sharp decline. The lesson learned is that the trading of a first round pick should only be done for superstars in this CBA or you have a championship contender and you are a piece away. For some reason the Heat, thought that Rozier would have been the final piece. I would not have done the deal, because I believe the team was an offensive star away not a support player away. I don't think it was a franchise destroying move though.

You don't trade for a superstar unless you field a team around the player, otherwise, you will have a disgruntle superstar.. You will have to trade him within two years if you can't field a championship competitive roster. The two year window is generous.

I don't believe Tyler is currently a max level. If he does not improve to superstar level this year, he should be traded to someone willing to give him his number. The Wizards payed dearly by paying Beal.

The Heat can trade for a superstar today and the superstar will know that while the first year it may not be great, the future is bright.

If lets say a player like Anthony Edwards were to be available and we trade the entire roster for him… what other superstar would not want to play with Anthony, in one of the best cities in the country?

The build always starts with a superstar, and then you put in roleplayers like Herro to come off the bench in a sixth man role.

What we are doing right now is completely backwards and has rarely worked in the NBA with the exception of the 2004 pistons. What we have now are a bunch of roleplayers.

And we are trying to make justifications that a limited player like Herro can actually lead a franchise. He is NOT that guy. He is not Dwyane Wade, hell he is not even Klay Thompson. He is a Lavine, a Beal, a Sexton, a Giddey. You give a guy like Malik Monk the same opportunity/volume like Herro and he would do just as well or better because he is more athletic.

Just an overrated not very skilled “scorer” that relies on high volume, not very athletic and a poor finisher at the rim (well so is the majority of the league in this era). Dont get me started with his defense.. And he gets shut down by the likes of Ty Jerome in big moments.


The good news is, the Heat has positioned themselves with all the expirings available, and potentially more expirings when we trade Wiggins at the deadline, to do a factory reset on the franchise.

Herro and Bam have one shot, this upcoming season, to show the Heat that duo is the next Shaq and Kobe and worthy of building on. If not, the Heat can easily start the overhaul of this franchise.

[HeatFanLifer]

The wose playoff performance in the NBA history?

Come on, they won 37 games, playing against a 64 win team. Their best player giving up on the team. Without the play-in tournaments, they don't even make the playoffs. Let's not be so extreme.

Ok, the worst performance since the play-in tournament began. I'll give you that, lol

I certainly believe they'll win more more than 37 games. That's technically an "improvement", right?

Cavaliers crush Heat in most lopsided series in NBA playoff history: Historic sweep by the numbers

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-crush-heat-in-most-lopsided-series-in-nba-playoff-history-historic-sweep-by-the-numbers/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

This is what I mean my friend

Again, before the play-in tournament was adopted, Miami Heat wouldn't even made it to the playoffs to receive that pounding.
So comparing that to all the games prior to that when only top 8 teams played in each conference is not fair, don't you think?

I almost missed this response too. What are you arguing with me on? You are just making points that aren’t anything I said or relevant to the conversation. The heat had the worst playoff series in nba history. Your response is “they should not habe been in the playoffs?” Is that contradictory to my point?

[ZoStrong]

What adversity? Jimmy Butler wanting to leave? The second the Heat realized they weren’t going to pay him what he wanted, they should have known he was going to want to leave given both: 1) their history of dealing with players that wanted to leave over money (Shaq and Wade) 2) Jimmy’s history of wanting the max deal

What adversity? An almost fully healthy team getting the worst defeat in nba playoff history?

What adversity? Losing Rozier to an ankle injury?

Is any of that **** adversity? Looks like poor personnel management and awful coaching to me. There was nothing to build on coming off the worst playoff performance in nba history. The team needs to fully rebuild. But it won’t cuz they probably think they succeeded through some self made adversity. Ridiculous nonsense.

Ya ya, they should've know that he was gonna throw tantrums after saying he would play out the season without the extension. They should've know that LeBron was gonna leave. They should've known that Beasley was a bust. And Windslow too. They should've known everything. Jeez, why this team don't know anything when 31 other teams know everything?! I just don't get it

Why did you make up a bunch of points that I sId after my first point? Terrible form of argument. You won an argument in your head bro. Congrats.

Not here to win anything. There are no rewards, lol. But I do like to point out fallacies. If I am wrong on something, I'd love people to point out too. I think we actually improve our collective knowledge by pointing out the obvious wrongs.

You are the one who criticized Heat for picking Beasley only couple pages ago when every team would've picked him at #2. We can debate about Heat not developing him, but Beasley was either #1 or #2 pick that year. Cooper Flagg may not turn out to be the best player of the 2025 draft. But every team would've picked him given the #1 pick in 2025.

Complaining Heat for not being able to see the future for everything that turns out terrible after seeing the results is just playing Monday morning QB. Yup, the hindsight is always 20/20

[ZoStrong]

Their are a lot of backseat GMs on this forum. If you want two franchises that deserve this level of criticism, it would be Washington Wizards, and the Charlotte Hornets. The Heat are a solidly run franchise.

The NBA is a business. If you are familiar with South Florida demographics, the fan turnout during rebuilding is terrible. So it should only be done if necessary. You have 2 years max to turn it back into a playoff contending. People in South Florida won't support losing. See the Marlins. Tank commanders will be out of a job in 2 years. Think about it. First you need to be lucky enough to secure top 3 picks in the draft lottery. Then you need to be lucky enough to draft two superstars. Keep in mind that the strength of the draft varies from year to year. Three mid-level draft picks will probably only get you solid support players.

The only fair criticism is the handling of the Jimmy Butler situation and the trading a first round pick for Rozier. The bottom line is Jimmy wanted his money, and the Heat were not going to give it to him at his price. I believe that was a good decision. What better trade package could have been had for Jimmy Butler? Does anyone think that we could have had 3 first round picks for a 37 year old Jimmy Butler. The Rozier trade seemed alright, but who could have predicted the sharp decline. The lesson learned is that the trading of a first round pick should only be done for superstars in this CBA or you have a championship contender and you are a piece away. For some reason the Heat, thought that Rozier would have been the final piece. I would not have done the deal, because I believe the team was an offensive star away not a support player away. I don't think it was a franchise destroying move though.

You don't trade for a superstar unless you field a team around the player, otherwise, you will have a disgruntle superstar.. You will have to trade him in a within two years if you can't field a championship competitive roster. The two year window is generous.

I don't believe Tyler is currently a max level. If he does not improve to superstar level this year, he should be traded to someone willing to give him his number. The Wizards payed dearly by paying Beal.

I get it but it’s like is this the goal and ceiling of the team for the foreseeable future? Just good enough to treadmill?

In regards to Tyler. Seems like we’d be bidding against ourselves again here. Which other team would give him 50 million per season ESPECIALLY in this financial climate of the nba where you need to make smart savvy front office decisions to propel your franchise forward. I wouldn’t give him a dime over 35m per season based on what he gives us right now. Preferably would like to move him and not pay him at all as he single handedly gives the Heat a bad defensive identity around the league and cannot seem to raise his level when it matters.

A treadmill team just made it to the Finals in Indiana Pacers. And Heat as well only a few years back. Small improvements can get us to 4-6 range in the East and anything is possible in the playoffs. Why be so negative when the roster is not even set and we still got the trading deadline?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Yall need to chill, this front office is flawless. I literally can’t think of a single mistake or a time they’ve seemed complacent.

[ZoStrong]

Cavaliers crush Heat in most lopsided series in NBA playoff history: Historic sweep by the numbers

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-crush-heat-in-most-lopsided-series-in-nba-playoff-history-historic-sweep-by-the-numbers/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

This is what I mean my friend

Again, before the play-in tournament was adopted, Miami Heat wouldn't even made it to the playoffs to receive that pounding.
So comparing that to all the games prior to that when only top 8 teams played in each conference is not fair, don't you think?

I almost missed this response too. What are you arguing with me on? You are just making points that aren’t anything I said or relevant to the conversation. The heat had the worst playoff series in nba history. Your response is “they should not habe been in the playoffs?” Is that contradictory to my point?

Please see what you wrote.

Putting a 10th seed w 37 wins against a 64 win #1 seed team in the frame of "the worst playoff series in the NBA HISTORY" is just being so desperate to make something look bad for your narrative.
I applaud for them to not give up and try to make it to the playoffs when giving up seems more tempting for pingpong balls. That's the culture and that's why I love this franchise.

I'll get a little philosophical, lol.
Does Rocky winning the fight in the original movie make it a better movie? Rocky lost as you know.
It's not always about holding the championship at the end. Ofc, we all try to cuz that's the one goal 32 participants try each season.
But, the relentless pursuit, playing against the odds w stitched up crew and making a run. Those are all great stories we'll tell our grandkids and reminisce fondly. Like Buffalo Bills fans will forever tell their kids about the 4 straight Superbowl losses w the amazement. It's the great stories that we witness that make the life interesting. Each season is its own journey and a story. Get yourself a drink and enjoy a little

[MettaWorldPanda]

If we land Derozan, it probably makes the most sense to start him and have Powell off of the bench. But if you start Derozan, I don't think you can also start Bam and Ware together because of the spacing. In this case, I think it would be more optimal to have Jovic start in place of Kel'el:

Herro
Derozan
Wiggins
Jovic
Bam

With a bench unit of

DMitchell
Powell
Larrson
Jaime/Fonteccio
Ware


KP, Keshad, Goldin, etc. all 3rd stringers.


This would be a deep team in which five (5) players could realistically score 20+ on any given night (Herro, Derozan, Wiggins, Bam, Powell). We'd still have the issue of not having a true #1 option, but history has shown that when you don't have an alpha, the second best thing is to have multiple betas.

I’m good with either.(2) second rd picks while getting off Rozier and maximizing this team in a weak East is something everyone should be on board with. DeRozan and Powell in one offseason with the current core is exactly the multifaceted scoring this team so desperately needs

[HeatFanLifer]

Ya ya, they should've know that he was gonna throw tantrums after saying he would play out the season without the extension. They should've know that LeBron was gonna leave. They should've known that Beasley was a bust. And Windslow too. They should've known everything. Jeez, why this team don't know anything when 31 other teams know everything?! I just don't get it

Why did you make up a bunch of points that I sId after my first point? Terrible form of argument. You won an argument in your head bro. Congrats.

Not here to win anything. There are no rewards, lol. But I do like to point out fallacies. If I am wrong on something, I'd love people to point out too. I think we actually improve our collective knowledge by pointing out the obvious wrongs.

You are the one who criticized Heat for picking Beasley only couple pages ago when every team would've picked him at #2. We can debate about Heat not developing him, but Beasley was either #1 or #2 pick that year. Cooper Flagg may not turn out to be the best player of the 2025 draft. But every team would've picked him given the #1 pick in 2025.

Complaining Heat for not being able to see the future for everything that turns out terrible after seeing the results is just playing Monday morning QB. Yup, the hindsight is always 20/20

It’s literally a fallacy to create a fake argument that your opponent is making and argue with that fake argument. It is called a straw man argument.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Yall need to chill, this front office is flawless. I literally can’t think of a single mistake or a time they’ve seemed complacent.

No they're the worst ever they should all be fired and Micky Arison shot out of a cannon into the sun, how can you not see that!?

(am I doing it right, the only allowed to speak in hyperbole thing? Nuance is for lames)

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Yall need to chill, this front office is flawless. I literally can’t think of a single mistake or a time they’ve seemed complacent.

No they're the worst ever they should all be fired and Micky Arison shot out of a cannon into the sun, how can you not see that!?

(am I doing it right, the only allowed to speak in hyperbole thing? Nuance is for lames)

[ZoStrong]

Why did you make up a bunch of points that I sId after my first point? Terrible form of argument. You won an argument in your head bro. Congrats.

Not here to win anything. There are no rewards, lol. But I do like to point out fallacies. If I am wrong on something, I'd love people to point out too. I think we actually improve our collective knowledge by pointing out the obvious wrongs.

You are the one who criticized Heat for picking Beasley only couple pages ago when every team would've picked him at #2. We can debate about Heat not developing him, but Beasley was either #1 or #2 pick that year. Cooper Flagg may not turn out to be the best player of the 2025 draft. But every team would've picked him given the #1 pick in 2025.

Complaining Heat for not being able to see the future for everything that turns out terrible after seeing the results is just playing Monday morning QB. Yup, the hindsight is always 20/20

It’s literally a fallacy to create a fake argument that your opponent is making and argue with that fake argument. It is called a straw man argument.

Again read your own claim of #10 seed playing against #1 seed as the "worst performance in the NBA playoffs HISTORY".

How many times #10 seeds played against #1s in the history of the NBA playoffs?

I'll agree that they are the WORST #10 SEED IN THE NBA PLAYOFFS HISTORY. lol

[ZoStrong]

Yall need to chill, this front office is flawless. I literally can’t think of a single mistake or a time they’ve seemed complacent.

No they're the worst ever they should all be fired and Micky Arison shot out of a cannon into the sun, how can you not see that!?

(am I doing it right, the only allowed to speak in hyperbole thing? Nuance is for lames)

See, why go one extreme to another? Other than to troll obviously? lol. All franchises got warts. Judge the whole book when it's said n done

[ZoStrong]

It’s literally a fallacy to create a fake argument that your opponent is making and argue with that fake argument. It is called a straw man argument.

I just added your argument from the other day about Heat scouting department messed up picking Beasley. Nothing created.
You seem to have a pattern of blaming without doing the dd. Just pointing that out.

[Jstock12]