Wembanyama apparently not happy with the NBA wishing Karl Malone a Happy Bday

[DC_Melo]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

CAPTA did not directly criminalize sex with minors. It required states to implement mandatory reporting laws.

Laws were different. Things were different. You can't apply your present day morals to another time / place.

You should start by using ChatGPT to find out how many people were in federal prison for sex crimes with minors prior to 2003. It’s a number far greater than zero. Almost like there were laws against that sort of thing.

And since I was alive in the 80’s, I’m happy to report that I thought raping a child was immoral then too.

Yeah and I remember even back then there were kids putting on make-up and skanky dresses and passing themselves off as much older. Asking dates for their ID to confirm they weren't underage wasn't a thing and I doubt it's a thing even today.

Here's a thought experiment: 50% of 18 year olds reported having had sex. What percentage of those were rape?

I remember that too, and as addressed in a much earlier post, that is called age entrapment and that's not what happened with Malone. Dude was in a year long relationship with a twelve year old as a twenty year old. This is a guy who was literally dating a 6th grader as a 20 year old. A preteen isn't fooling a grown man for a full year.

[Cavsfansince84]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

CAPTA did not directly criminalize sex with minors. It required states to implement mandatory reporting laws.

Laws were different. Things were different. You can't apply your present day morals to another time / place.

While I agree to some extent with your general point I don't think that this really applies to what Mailman did. Its not like she was 15 looking like she was 18/19(which a lot of 14/15 yr old girls can pull off). I think he knew exactly what he was doing and just decided to do it over a long period of time. 12/13 there's really not any excuse that flies. Even 14/15 a 20 yr old dude should know better. This was predatory behavior.

[NZB2323]

I am confused. How has Malone become a villain? Since the incident, has he encountered any legal problems? In a way, this post reflects the whole issue facing society. Although Malone's actions were wrong back then and are wrong now, those who are criticizing him are doing so because of how THEIR perceptions of what transpired changed.

All this was known for more than 50 years, but you were fine rooting for him when it suited your own fandom. For this reason, his statistics and records ought to be kept. Fans like you are the reason he had a career and a platform. The NBA allowed him into the league and UTAH fans cheered him and allowed him to play as long as he did to accrue those statistics.

Fifty years later, they can't say, "Well, yeah, well, we'd rather not recognize them some things are bigger than statistics". How incredibly self-serving and self-aggrandizing.

Clearly, I didn't know when I was rooting for him. And I don't think there's any "perception" that push sexual child abuse above criticism. What a horrific and disgusting take.

This was all public information it was well known during his playing days and we all know how the NBA handled these types of cases which was a slap on the wrist and wait until people moved on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1993/03/02/scarred-by-incident-trail-blazers-face-trouble-in-many-directions/cd7efedf-bf7f-4e4a-97c5-6e6918e6b691/

It has set players against management, which suspended Murray and Johnson for three games (costing Murray, acquired from Milwaukee in a deal for forward Alaa Abdelnaby, $26,500, and Johnson, the club's first-round pick, $18,300). The suspensions were handed out after the club's own investigation determined Murray and Johnson broke team policies and rules, while there wasn't sufficient evidence of involvement by Kersey and Smith to warrant suspension, though they did violate other rules. Murray and Johnson also were fined $20,000, while Kersey and Smith were fined $15,000 each.

Some around the league suspect that if the players had been white, or the girls black, that there would have been much less of a furor. Nonetheless, no one can justify what was at best a wildly reckless association with girls who were runaways to begin with and only told their stories to police after two of them were arrested for shoplifting.

In the 1990s, the NBA did little to stop these players from entering the league. Neither did their fans care. His numbers stand, and anyone with questions of why he was allowed to play should direct them to the NBA and Utah fans. Fifty years later, they don't get a pass pretending he never existed.

What about Jazz fans who weren’t alive when Malone was drafted?

The internet wasn’t around back then, and this wasn’t a big story back then. Most people in the 90s didn’t know.

By looking it up, I see an ESPN article from 2008, a Reddit thread from 2019, and a YouTube video from 2023. I’m not finding anything showing that it was well known in the 90s, and have no memory of it.

I’ve also never rooted for Malone in a game, but can’t fault those who rooted for him and didn’t know about this.

[zimpy27]

I'm pretty sure abusing a 12 YO girl wasn't all that tollerable in the 80s neither.

Depends where you were but in this instance it was tolerated by the parents of the 13 year old girl, but also by college team and the NBA as a whole.

I'm sure some people didn't accept it back then but the people that mattered were accepting at the time.

Just because the parents didn’t press charges doesn’t mean they tolerated it. They didn’t want Karl Malone in jail where he couldn’t work and pay child support.

Of course that means that it was tolerated. Tolerate doesn't mean you love something, tolerate means you don't like it but you live with it.
Anyway, I feel like we're just talking semantics now.

This behaviour isn't tolerated now. If a 20 year old NBA player impregnated a 13 year old, the parents wouldn't be fine with it for a $400 a week payment, they'd be pressing charges.

[Tim Lehrbach]

There is never going to be a big moment of reckoning concerning Malone or Bryant, among others, because their offenses are going to become smaller, not bigger, news as all retired/dead players' legacies recede from the front of sports fans' minds. The NBA can, and will, run out the clock. This is not the right response, but it's the one we are going to get.

[Sixers in 4]

Clearly, I didn't know when I was rooting for him. And I don't think there's any "perception" that push sexual child abuse above criticism. What a horrific and disgusting take.

This was all public information it was well known during his playing days and we all know how the NBA handled these types of cases which was a slap on the wrist and wait until people moved on.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1993/03/02/scarred-by-incident-trail-blazers-face-trouble-in-many-directions/cd7efedf-bf7f-4e4a-97c5-6e6918e6b691/

It has set players against management, which suspended Murray and Johnson for three games (costing Murray, acquired from Milwaukee in a deal for forward Alaa Abdelnaby, $26,500, and Johnson, the club's first-round pick, $18,300). The suspensions were handed out after the club's own investigation determined Murray and Johnson broke team policies and rules, while there wasn't sufficient evidence of involvement by Kersey and Smith to warrant suspension, though they did violate other rules. Murray and Johnson also were fined $20,000, while Kersey and Smith were fined $15,000 each.

Some around the league suspect that if the players had been white, or the girls black, that there would have been much less of a furor. Nonetheless, no one can justify what was at best a wildly reckless association with girls who were runaways to begin with and only told their stories to police after two of them were arrested for shoplifting.

In the 1990s, the NBA did little to stop these players from entering the league. Neither did their fans care. His numbers stand, and anyone with questions of why he was allowed to play should direct them to the NBA and Utah fans. Fifty years later, they don't get a pass pretending he never existed.

What about Jazz fans who weren’t alive when Malone was drafted?

The internet wasn’t around back then, and this wasn’t a big story back then. Most people in the 90s didn’t know.

By looking it up, I see an ESPN article from 2008, a Reddit thread from 2019, and a YouTube video from 2023. I’m not finding anything showing that it was well known in the 90s, and have no memory of it.

I’ve also never rooted for Malone in a game, but can’t fault those who rooted for him and didn’t know about this.

https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/26/19387955/malone-finally-meets-twins-who-call-him-dad/
(Associated Press reprint)

It was well known don't know what to tell you and you aren't going to find much on the internet because it really wasn't a thing in the late 80's early 90's but it was public knowledge

[Cavsfansince84]

https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/26/19387955/malone-finally-meets-twins-who-call-him-dad/
(Associated Press reprint)

It was well known don't know what to tell you and you aren't going to find much on the internet because it really wasn't a thing in the late 80's early 90's but it was public knowledge

I wouldn't say it was well known except maybe to certain people near the Jazz. Even that article you linked says absolutely nothing about the mother being way underage when she had them. It just says they are his kids that he never met before. iirc I think it became more public knowledge about 5-10 years after that and that article was from 1998.

[basketballto]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

Here's what you wrote earlier:

Learning history is important.

Estimated 30–40% of 18–20-year-old Black males in rural southern communities may have courted or married girls at 14/15. 10% for 12-14.

You made a claim, busted out statistics, and acted like it was common history people should know. When you make claims, it's incumbent on you to support your claims. If the claims you make are true, that should be a piece of cake for someone as tech savvy as you.

CAPTA did not directly criminalize sex with minors. It required states to implement mandatory reporting laws.

Laws were different. Things were different. You can't apply your present day morals to another time / place.

You should start by using ChatGPT to find out how many people were in federal prison for sex crimes with minors prior to 2003. It’s a number far greater than zero. Almost like there were laws against that sort of thing.

And since I was alive in the 80’s, I’m happy to report that I thought raping a child was immoral then too.

Of course people were in jail before that time every state make their own laws. Having sex outside of marriage was immoral in the 80s. You can't refute the facts.

[NZB2323]

This was all public information it was well known during his playing days and we all know how the NBA handled these types of cases which was a slap on the wrist and wait until people moved on.



In the 1990s, the NBA did little to stop these players from entering the league. Neither did their fans care. His numbers stand, and anyone with questions of why he was allowed to play should direct them to the NBA and Utah fans. Fifty years later, they don't get a pass pretending he never existed.

What about Jazz fans who weren’t alive when Malone was drafted?

The internet wasn’t around back then, and this wasn’t a big story back then. Most people in the 90s didn’t know.

By looking it up, I see an ESPN article from 2008, a Reddit thread from 2019, and a YouTube video from 2023. I’m not finding anything showing that it was well known in the 90s, and have no memory of it.

I’ve also never rooted for Malone in a game, but can’t fault those who rooted for him and didn’t know about this.

https://www.deseret.com/1998/6/26/19387955/malone-finally-meets-twins-who-call-him-dad/
(Associated Press reprint)

It was well known don't know what to tell you and you aren't going to find much on the internet because it really wasn't a thing in the late 80's early 90's but it was public knowledge

I’ve never heard of desert news before, that article is from after game 6 of the 98 Finals, and it never says anything about Karl being with an underage girl. It reads as a fluff piece that says Karl is reconnecting with his kids.

Here’s an article from 1986 where the author claims that Larry Bird might be the GOAT:

https://vault.si.com/vault/1986/03/03/as-nearly-perfect-as-you-can-get

I don’t know anyone who knew that Karl Malone impregnated a 13 year old child in the 90s.

[maverick_41]

What is the story?
That lady sued Malone for rape but the NBA helped him avoid the prison? That is why Wembanyama is not happy?

[DC_Melo]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

Here's what you wrote earlier:

Learning history is important.

Estimated 30–40% of 18–20-year-old Black males in rural southern communities may have courted or married girls at 14/15. 10% for 12-14.

You made a claim, busted out statistics, and acted like it was common history people should know. When you make claims, it's incumbent on you to support your claims. If the claims you make are true, that should be a piece of cake for someone as tech savvy as you.

CAPTA did not directly criminalize sex with minors. It required states to implement mandatory reporting laws.

Laws were different. Things were different. You can't apply your present day morals to another time / place.

You should start by using ChatGPT to find out how many people were in federal prison for sex crimes with minors prior to 2003. It’s a number far greater than zero. Almost like there were laws against that sort of thing.

And since I was alive in the 80’s, I’m happy to report that I thought raping a child was immoral then too.

Of course people were in jail before that time every state make their own laws. Having sex outside of marriage was immoral in the 80s. You can't refute the facts.

1. Having sex with minors was also immoral in the 80’s

2. I asked you to look up how many people are in federal prison because of sex crimes with minors before 2003. You go to federal prison for breaking federal crimes. And pedos have been going to federal prison since well before 2003. How did they get there if they weren’t committing federal crimes?

3. Still waiting on you to source your claim about black males in the south. You talk about refuting facts but haven’t even provided a fact to refute…

[The4thHorseman]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

CAPTA did not directly criminalize sex with minors. It required states to implement mandatory reporting laws.

Laws were different. Things were different. You can't apply your present day morals to another time / place.

You should start by using ChatGPT to find out how many people were in federal prison for sex crimes with minors prior to 2003. It’s a number far greater than zero. Almost like there were laws against that sort of thing.

And since I was alive in the 80’s, I’m happy to report that I thought raping a child was immoral then too.

Yeah and I remember even back then there were kids putting on make-up and skanky dresses and passing themselves off as much older. Asking dates for their ID to confirm they weren't underage wasn't a thing and I doubt it's a thing even today.

Here's a thought experiment: 50% of 18 year olds reported having had sex. What percentage of those were rape?

I worked with a young guy who was lied to about a girls age to where he said he now ask to see proof if he has any doubts she may be under age.

Plus there are some states that the age to consent is only 16yrs old which is quite surprising to me.

[DC_Melo]

There is never going to be a big moment of reckoning concerning Malone or Bryant, among others, because their offenses are going to become smaller, not bigger, news as all retired/dead players' legacies recede from the front of sports fans' minds. The NBA can, and will, run out the clock. This is not the right response, but it's the one we are going to get.

I agree with the overall sentiment, but I don’t think it’s fair to lump Kobe with Malone.

We know what Malone did, even though he never went to court, because there was a whole pregnancy and kid that he admitted to being his as evidence. And that kid is only 13 years younger than his mom, and she was 12 when she got pregnant. These are established facts.

The established facts in Kobe’s situation are different. He was accused of rape, although denies it. The civil case revealed evidence that Kobe had been unfaithful to Vanessa, but it also revealed evidence the accuser had holes in her story and refused to testify. The case was dropped and settled out of court. The settlement details were not disclosed to the public, but is believed to be around $2.5 million.

So here’s what we know for sure based on the facts: it’s he said/she said, with two people that were proven in court to have dishonest character, and no evidence to support one claim vs the other. Obviously, something happened between the two. But she refused to testify and had to settle out of court. You are welcome to believe Kobe did that crime, it is absolutely possible he did, but that is ultimately a subjective belief, and not an objective conclusion. We ultimately don’t know for sure what happened between the two based on the facts provided. With Malone it’s not about believing. There’s copious proof and he doesn’t deny it.

[BigGargamel]

It's a complex issue.

By today's standards Malone would've been kicked from the league but it happened over 40 years ago. There are likely many players they know that did similar thing around the early 80s. People hate when you try place things in the context of the time that they occurred. The really complex part though is that Karl and his son have a reportedly close relationship now. There was never any push to press charges at any point by the victim or their family. Bringing this up probably does more harm than good to the innocent people involved.

On the flip side,.social media is never going to forget this and from the PR perspective I wonder why the NBA just hasn't cut ties completely. It'd probably be better for everyone if they just don't mention him like this.

I’m sorry impregnating a 13 yr old 40 year ago was not the norm. I mean 40yrs ago he should have been in jail. It is a crime

We agree it's not the norm. It's a crime.

But and I just had this weird chat with a friend where he was showing me a picture of some creep taking a picture of his granddaughter in a thong on the beach. And...well I'm an adult and looking at this pic and I'm like..wait...how old is she? She was 14. And my guy....I've seen 20 year old women who looked younger than her. It was jarring...I think I have an ok judgement of ages and WTF!

The point is...at 19 he was just going off his junk and wasn't thinking. As insanely gross as that age stuff is....if the looks were there, a stupid person isn't going to go further.

So while I'm cool if you hate the guy for all this. If she looked 20 and was 12-13, and he didn't think about it (as many guys that age don't)...the stigma and the media coverage on why you don't do that wasn't there.

I'm glad today we make sure to teach men to realize that's a serious problem, but we didn't do that historically. You don't have to think it as ok or acceptable. Just realize the stigma wasn't there like now. And that women can look way way older than you expect. Two things to think about.

12-13 year olds don't look 20. And even if they do, they're 12-13.

This post is disgusting.

[Nate505]

It was well known don't know what to tell you and you aren't going to find much on the internet because it really wasn't a thing in the late 80's early 90's but it was public knowledge

I mean, that's just not true. It was not well known.

It may not have been completely unknown, but the NBA on NBC wasn't talking about this. AP wasn't reporting articles on this anytime the Jazz played. Announcers weren't talking about this when the Jazz played. This was not mentioned very much, if at all, back on the old usenet boards or the web in the late 90s.

[Sixers in 4]

It was well known don't know what to tell you and you aren't going to find much on the internet because it really wasn't a thing in the late 80's early 90's but it was public knowledge

I mean, that's just not true. It was not well known.

It may not have been completely unknown, but the NBA on NBC wasn't talking about this. AP wasn't reporting articles on this anytime the Jazz played. Announcers weren't talking about this when the Jazz played. This was not mentioned very much, if at all, back on the old usenet boards or the web in the late 90s.

No one talked about Allen Iverson legal issues after entering the NBA either though there were numerous including a five year prison sentence (commuted to a handful of months)

Doesn't mean it wasn't well known or reported just it wasn't important to fans.

[bledredwine]

Plays chess, spends his summer at a Shaolin temple, not down with pedo Malone...I love this kid (in a non-Karl Malone type way)

This is literally what my brain thinks every time he speaks or does anything and what I keep telling my girlfriend. It’s him and Lamine Yamal hopefully bringing competitive integrity to their sports.

Not the best month for Yamal in that regard.

Of course, but he's 17 and had the best 17 year old season ever.
He has maturing to do, but unfortunately is influenced by Neymar, his hero, who acts stupid at times.
I'm okay with some leeway. His skills are unreal.

What I really like is that he has high confidence, wants to take tough shots and is highly competitive as well.

[NyKnicks1714]

These days you are expected to look things up yourself with chatgpt.

Lol wait, you just got those numbers from chatgpt and assumed them to be true? Do you think it's some magic thing that always has the right information? If someone asks you to cite a source for a statistic you gave, you can't just say you got it from chatgpt.

[Vol]

What he did wasn't uncommon and some of your parents or grandparents did the same thing. To go after someone uneducated poor with a direct link to slavery who did what everyone around him did shows either you don't know or understand his story or want to punch down to make yourself feel better.

Yep. My grandma and grandpa got together at 14 and 19, and were married for over 60 years, until my grandma died 5 years ago. Gramps died 2 years later. RIP <3 They had 3 beautiful children, both of them worked full time jobs well past retirement age to support family, bought land and built their own homes. They were excellent role models. During one of our holiday parties one of my younger cousins once asked them about the age gap and they said age gaps like that weren't a big deal in those times.

[sikma42]

What he did wasn't uncommon and some of your parents or grandparents did the same thing. To go after someone uneducated poor with a direct link to slavery who did what everyone around him did shows either you don't know or understand his story or want to punch down to make yourself feel better.

Yep. My grandma and grandpa got together at 14 and 19, and were married for over 60 years, until my grandma died 5 years ago. Gramps died 2 years later. RIP <3 They had 3 beautiful children, both of them worked full time jobs well past retirement age to support family, bought land and built their own homes. They were excellent role models. During one of our holiday parties one of my younger cousins once asked them about the age gap and they said age gaps like that weren't a big deal in those times.

I don’t want to comment on your family dynamic.

But this girl wasn’t even 14, she was 12. Is there an age where this doesn’t fit your world view re “that time”? Would it be different if she was 11? 10?

Just a very weird discussion. It was rape. She was a child.


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