The Official 2025 Offseason Thread #4 Free Agency Opens!

[sunsbum]

This guy gets it!! Lol, you forgot to add a link of some random talking head who you agree with about us sucking. "Here is a link of Jagoff Durst, I agree with him about our situation, YOU ALL SHOULD READ IT"!!

There isn't a sports writer out there that thinks the Suns have anything other than a bleak rest of the 2020's ahead of them. There's very little to be optimistic about and I don't blame anyone for dooming.

Yeah. Literally every basketball head out there is trashing the Suns. Just a day or two ago, i came across an article where Quinn from CBS ranks us among 4 worst FO's in the league. Still generous, tho.

and they were all praising us when we got KD and Beal :shrug:

[Dr Manute]

This guy gets it!! Lol, you forgot to add a link of some random talking head who you agree with about us sucking. "Here is a link of Jagoff Durst, I agree with him about our situation, YOU ALL SHOULD READ IT"!!

There isn't a sports writer out there that thinks the Suns have anything other than a bleak rest of the 2020's ahead of them. There's very little to be optimistic about and I don't blame anyone for dooming.

Yeah. Literally every basketball head out there is trashing the Suns. Just a day or two ago, i came across an article where Quinn from CBS ranks us among 4 worst FO's in the league. Still generous, tho.

Great time to bet on the over. I expect them to overachieve this year - I hope to make up for the amount I lost the last 2 years of underachievement.

[Fo-Real]

Oh you mean your boy. Because it wasn’t me.

I have no boy and you have never seen me quoting anyone. This is an "If the shoe fits", kinda thing. You must have felt some kind of way. Did it tingle somewhere? If not, why the hell are you responding like you are offended? What a Maroon!! ~Bugs Bunny

Seriously, all you do is harass people on the board here. Get a DAMN LIFE!

Just you my special child, But Ill move on.

[bigfoot]

Andrew Bynum is the only player I remember being a project who played less that 7 minutes a game his first year as a center who turned into a stud (VERY VERY brief stud because he was out of the league by 27 years old).

Can you think of any centers who barely played their first 2-3 years and turned into studs?

I'll take Joel Embiid for $500, Alex.

But if I'm being honest, that's a pretty easy pick. The question is much harder when considering players today as there aren't many that are true centers seeing how much the league and game have changed to one of being somewhat positionless.

I can think of a few....

-Zubac averaged 9 mins a game in his second year, and like ~15-16 mins a game through his first 4. Granted he was being played by a trash Lakers org (2016-2019)

-Bam Adebayo didn't have a super impressive rookie season 6.9 pts on 51% FG/ 5.5 rebounds / 1 assist and I think Mal could easily beat it if he can actually earn some minutes over Mark Williams (who is better across the board at this point)

-Sabonis had an even worse rookie season....5.9/3.6 rebounds on 39% FG.

Granted, these guys were all older than our project #10 pick who has 5 years of organized ball under his belt? And quite a few of them had better tools....Zubac has Rodman's nose for the ball witJah a true center's length / decent foot speed. Sabonis and Bam are freakishly strong. Adebayo can move in space like a small forward.

But my point is, I think Mal is an intriguing project and I was / am totally good with the org swinging for the fence with him. Big men historically take time, and Mal comes in the league as one of the youngest players.

If he locks down his three ball and the game slows down for him around February/March, plays hard, etc....it would solve a lot of problems for this org.

.

Gobert came to mind right away and then Joakim Noah.

[Sunsdeuce]

I'll take Joel Embiid for $500, Alex.

But if I'm being honest, that's a pretty easy pick. The question is much harder when considering players today as there aren't many that are true centers seeing how much the league and game have changed to one of being somewhat positionless.

I can think of a few....

-Zubac averaged 9 mins a game in his second year, and like ~15-16 mins a game through his first 4. Granted he was being played by a trash Lakers org (2016-2019)

-Bam Adebayo didn't have a super impressive rookie season 6.9 pts on 51% FG/ 5.5 rebounds / 1 assist and I think Mal could easily beat it if he can actually earn some minutes over Mark Williams (who is better across the board at this point)

-Sabonis had an even worse rookie season....5.9/3.6 rebounds on 39% FG.

Granted, these guys were all older than our project #10 pick who has 5 years of organized ball under his belt? And quite a few of them had better tools....Zubac has Rodman's nose for the ball witJah a true center's length / decent foot speed. Sabonis and Bam are freakishly strong. Adebayo can move in space like a small forward.

But my point is, I think Mal is an intriguing project and I was / am totally good with the org swinging for the fence with him. Big men historically take time, and Mal comes in the league as one of the youngest players.

If he locks down his three ball and the game slows down for him around February/March, plays hard, etc....it would solve a lot of problems for this org.

.

Gobert came to mind right away and then [streamable]Joakim[/streamable] Noah.

Gobert is interesting. Definitely unique. He was drafted 27th overall. But he went from only 9 minutes a game (45 games total) his first season to 25 minutes a game his second season. He wasn’t a lottery pick so I don’t remember a lot of talk about him. I’m sure he was considered a project but I can’t confirm.

Joakim Noah Played 20 minutes a game for 74 games in his first season. He was a lottery pick. He was drafted 9th. He’s a what i think you should expect from the 9th-10th draft pick range. Quality minutes and impactful. Been a minute but I don’t recall anyone calling him a project BUT I do remember everyone saying he’s shot form was gross. He never fixed it but he learned to play with it.

Zubac was the 32nd pick in the draft. Have no issues taking a project at 32. He was a project.

Bam was the 14th pick. Played 20 minutes per game his rookie season. Contributed right away. Not a project.

Sabonis was the 11th pick. Played 20 minutes per game his rookie year. Contributed right away. Not a project.


With all that, I have no issues taking a project player late in the 1st round or anywhere in the second round. Players drafted 1-14 should have the ability to play meaningful minutes their rookie year. If Maluach ain’t getting 15-20 meaningful minutes a game this season, something is terribly wrong. I have no issues with rookie mistakes, low field goal percentage, what we all should have issues with is showing signs of life aka ability to contribute.

Either way, it’s a forum, we all have our views. I want Maluach to prove the naysayers like me dead wrong! No reason to go in circles on Maluach. Now we just have to wait for the season to judge.

[Sunsdeuce]

Some good info about Jared Butler from a Philly point a view.

https://www.phillyvoice.com/sixers-news-analysis-jared-butler-stats-highlights-interview-nba-free-agency-signings-rumors-phoenix-suns/

He might be more valuable than we know. He might be more valuable than Gillespie.

Butler, who averaged 11.5 points and 4.9 assists per game with the Sixers, provided some value to the organization, even in losing efforts. His traditional point guard skillset helped keep the team organized amid constant injuries, back-end roster shuffles and hardship exception signings. Now, Butler has a new home.

[NapoleonII]

I'll take Joel Embiid for $500, Alex.

But if I'm being honest, that's a pretty easy pick. The question is much harder when considering players today as there aren't many that are true centers seeing how much the league and game have changed to one of being somewhat positionless.

I can think of a few....

-Zubac averaged 9 mins a game in his second year, and like ~15-16 mins a game through his first 4. Granted he was being played by a trash Lakers org (2016-2019)

-Bam Adebayo didn't have a super impressive rookie season 6.9 pts on 51% FG/ 5.5 rebounds / 1 assist and I think Mal could easily beat it if he can actually earn some minutes over Mark Williams (who is better across the board at this point)

-Sabonis had an even worse rookie season....5.9/3.6 rebounds on 39% FG.

Granted, these guys were all older than our project #10 pick who has 5 years of organized ball under his belt? And quite a few of them had better tools....Zubac has Rodman's nose for the ball with a true center's length / decent foot speed. Sabonis and Bam are freakishly strong. Adebayo can move in space like a small forward.

But my point is, I think Mal is an intriguing project and I was / am totally good with the org swinging for the fence with him. Big men historically take time and Mal comes in the league as one of the youngest players.

If he locks down his three ball and the game slows down for him around February/March, plays hard, etc....it would solve a lot of problems for this org.

What time in history are you referring to? Because up till the early 2000, if you were a center drafted in the lottery you were expect to start and be impactful. I’m guessing you are referring to more modern centers.

Centers that were lottery picks that were considered “projects” in the 90s were expect to start right away. Even if they turned out to be bad. Big Country (if you know 90s ball, you know who that is), Shawn Bradley, Michael Olowokandi to name a few.

No, i'm not talking about pre-2000 centers. Different era, different world. Those guys (alongside the stars/home-run prospects like Shaq and Duncan)
had 3-4 years of college under their belt, and GM's drafted accordingly. Add in spacing/shooting of this era and how the game no longer flows through the post, etc.

A playable big basically needs to be able to do 2 of 3 things (with Jokic as the pure exception with his insane passing). The 'unicorns' (Chet/Porzingas/AD) can adequately do all 3.

-rebound
-defend in space
-shoot

Bonus attributes / archetypes

-Rim-run
-Contest shots at the rim/block (not as important with teams jacking up so many three's)

Wemby can do all 5.

[garrick]

This guy gets it!! Lol, you forgot to add a link of some random talking head who you agree with about us sucking. "Here is a link of Jagoff Durst, I agree with him about our situation, YOU ALL SHOULD READ IT"!!

There isn't a sports writer out there that thinks the Suns have anything other than a bleak rest of the 2020's ahead of them. There's very little to be optimistic about and I don't blame anyone for dooming.

Yeah. Literally every basketball head out there is trashing the Suns. Just a day or two ago, i came across an article where Quinn from CBS ranks us among 4 worst FO's in the league. Still generous, tho.

Can't blame them when pretty much all of Ishbia's major decisions have backfired spectacularly.

In 2021 the media was singing our praises because we made it to the finals and had a young core and we were not massively over the salary cap so it will take some hard results for the media to look kindly on this version of the Suns.

Nothing short of a deep playoff run can fix the media perception of the Suns front office as a clown show.

[handsome salary]

Nothing short of a deep playoff run can fix EVERYONES perception of the Suns front office as a clown show.

[Saberestar]

Dillon Brooks will wear #3.
Mark Williams #15.
Nigel Hayes-Davis #21.
Oso Ighodaro #11 ( #4 last season).
Jalen Green #4.

[Mr Puddles]

I'll take Joel Embiid for $500, Alex.

But if I'm being honest, that's a pretty easy pick. The question is much harder when considering players today as there aren't many that are true centers seeing how much the league and game have changed to one of being somewhat positionless.

I can think of a few....

-Zubac averaged 9 mins a game in his second year, and like ~15-16 mins a game through his first 4. Granted he was being played by a trash Lakers org (2016-2019)

-Bam Adebayo didn't have a super impressive rookie season 6.9 pts on 51% FG/ 5.5 rebounds / 1 assist and I think Mal could easily beat it if he can actually earn some minutes over Mark Williams (who is better across the board at this point)

-Sabonis had an even worse rookie season....5.9/3.6 rebounds on 39% FG.

Granted, these guys were all older than our project #10 pick who has 5 years of organized ball under his belt? And quite a few of them had better tools....Zubac has Rodman's nose for the ball witJah a true center's length / decent foot speed. Sabonis and Bam are freakishly strong. Adebayo can move in space like a small forward.

But my point is, I think Mal is an intriguing project and I was / am totally good with the org swinging for the fence with him. Big men historically take time, and Mal comes in the league as one of the youngest players.

If he locks down his three ball and the game slows down for him around February/March, plays hard, etc....it would solve a lot of problems for this org.

.

Gobert came to mind right away and then Joakim Noah.

Ben Wallace (5.8 min) , Isaiah Hartenstein (7.9 min) , DeAndre Jordan (14.5), Clint Capella (7.5) Jermaine O'Neal (10.2)...

There's a pretty long list to pick from tbh

And that's not counting guys who only got minutes because they were high draft picks on crappy teams like Tyson Chandler, but didn't come into their own until they were a few years in the league.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Mr Puddles]

Read on Twitter

This falls right in line with this front office's desire to "compete" while simultaneously having no picks and more dead capspace than anyone else in the league.

In a sane world, the Suns would have traded Booker to the magic for the Bane haul, did the KD trade, flipped the 10th pick for the 23rd and next year's unprotected, and kept Bradley Beal to let him expire in 2027.

The Suns would be in a good position right now.

[garrick]

Read on Twitter

This falls right in line with this front office's desire to "compete" while simultaneously having no picks and more dead capspace than anyone else in the league.

In a sane world, the Suns would have traded Booker to the magic for the Bane haul, did the KD trade, flipped the 10th pick for the 23rd and next year's unprotected, and kept Bradley Beal to let him expire in 2027.

The Suns would be in a good position right now.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6512060/2025/07/25/nba-summer-league-disappointments-nets-pelicans/

I would have done that trade because the Pelicans likely aren't making the playoffs next season so that's likely another top 10 pick or maybe even top 5 given how tough the west is and with Zion's injury history.

Ishbia's fatal flaw is his impatience and irrational fear of doing a full rebuild.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

#10 pick with Maluach available (Raptors didn't draft him mostly because of his visa's issue) was more valuable than #23 + 2026 unprotected pick IMO.

You never know with unprotected picks. They have value as a trade asset but you would need to trade him now or at the deadline before knowing the actual draft position.

[sunsbg]

Read on Twitter

#10 pick with Maluach available (Raptors didn't draft him mostly because of his visa's issue) was more valuable than #23 + 2026 unprotected pick IMO.

You never know with unprotected picks. They have value as a trade asset but you would need to trade him now or at the deadline before knowing the actual draft position.

What do you think is the ceiling of Maluach ? He certainly didn't show in college or SL being worth more than unprotected pick from projected top 5-6 worst team, much less another pick added. I don't see him as more than high role player, fringe star unfortunately. With how **** up this franchise's future is with Ishbia's suicide moves gambling again on a top pick in supposedly deep draft wouldn't been too bad. I had a look at comparisons for projected '26 top two picks, one is Tracy McGradey and the other - Devin Booker. Our FO would've picked a Booker clone in a heart beat lol.

[Sunsdeuce]

Read on Twitter

It funny I posted this story back three pages ago and no one caught this part.

Our rookies not exactly impressing.

NBA Summer League disappointments: Nets’ draft class, the Pelicans and more
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6512060/2025/07/25/nba-summer-league-disappointments-nets-pelicans/

Khaman Maluach, Suns: Could the Suns have done what Atlanta did and walked away from the draft with an unprotected future first from the Pelicans and the 23rd pick instead of staying at No. 10? Discussion over whether Phoenix fumbled the bag by not taking the New Orleans offer will only heighten if Maluach can’t give the Suns a quality big.

Phoenix opted to take the Duke project, and I’ll emphasize the word “project” here; his was a rough entry to professional basketball. The 7-1 Maluach only posted a 13.5 percent rebound rate, took nearly half his shots from 3 and had one assist in 70 minutes. Watching from courtside made me more concerned about his hands, as contested rebounds and alley-oop opportunities escaped him at times.

Not only is Maluach not impressing, the “brilliance” of the Suns front office whiffed on acquiring more assets. While trading away more assets just to get back to the top of the 2nd round when the already has the 29th pick in which they could have just selected Fleming. The Suns front office are agents of their own doom. Also would like to note, Suns were bidding against themselves for Mark Williams. ZERO reports any other team was attempting or offered anything for Williams.

[Sunsdeuce]

I can think of a few....

-Zubac averaged 9 mins a game in his second year, and like ~15-16 mins a game through his first 4. Granted he was being played by a trash Lakers org (2016-2019)

-Bam Adebayo didn't have a super impressive rookie season 6.9 pts on 51% FG/ 5.5 rebounds / 1 assist and I think Mal could easily beat it if he can actually earn some minutes over Mark Williams (who is better across the board at this point)

-Sabonis had an even worse rookie season....5.9/3.6 rebounds on 39% FG.

Granted, these guys were all older than our project #10 pick who has 5 years of organized ball under his belt? And quite a few of them had better tools....Zubac has Rodman's nose for the ball witJah a true center's length / decent foot speed. Sabonis and Bam are freakishly strong. Adebayo can move in space like a small forward.

But my point is, I think Mal is an intriguing project and I was / am totally good with the org swinging for the fence with him. Big men historically take time, and Mal comes in the league as one of the youngest players.

If he locks down his three ball and the game slows down for him around February/March, plays hard, etc....it would solve a lot of problems for this org.

.

Gobert came to mind right away and then Joakim Noah.

Ben Wallace (5.8 min) , Isaiah Hartenstein (7.9 min) , DeAndre Jordan (14.5), Clint Capella (7.5) Jermaine O'Neal (10.2)...

There's a pretty long list to pick from tbh

And that's not counting guys who only got minutes because they were high draft picks on crappy teams like Tyson Chandler, but didn't come into their own until they were a few years in the league.

There’s a long list of top 15 selected centers selected who played 7 minutes or less a game?
Ben Wallace: was not drafted
Isaiah Hartsensein: 43rd pick
Deandre Jordan: 35th pick
Clint Capella: 25th pick
Jermaine O’Neal: 17th pick (17 years old)

Tyson Chandler: 2nd overall pick, played 20 minutes a game his rookie year and contributed to the team right away.

Let me repeat for reading impaired. It’s ok to take projects (centers) late in the first round or anywhere in the 2nd round. BUT LOTTERY picks should be able to play in an impactful way their rookie year and be able to contribute 15-20 minutes as minimum. I have yet to see someone give me an example of a top 15 selected center who didn’t play or who didn’t have impactful minutes contributed to the team that was selected them in the top 15.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

#10 pick with Maluach available (Raptors didn't draft him mostly because of his visa's issue) was more valuable than #23 + 2026 unprotected pick IMO.

You never know with unprotected picks. They have value as a trade asset but you would need to trade him now or at the deadline before knowing the actual draft position.

What do you think is the ceiling of Maluach ? He certainly didn't show in college or SL being worth more than unprotected pick from projected top 5-6 worst team, much less another pick added. I don't see him as more than high role player, fringe star unfortunately. With how **** up this franchise's future is with Ishbia's suicide moves gambling again on a top pick in supposedly deep draft wouldn't been too bad. I had a look at comparisons for projected '26 top two picks, one is Tracy McGradey and the other - Devin Booker. Our FO would've picked a Booker clone in a heart beat lol.

High ceiling for sure. Look at the tools:

A mobile 7'2, 253 lbs with high motor, good shooting for a C , coachable, fast learner and hard worker.

We are talking about a 18/19 yo who played great his role in his freshman season at Duke.

He was highly expected to be drafted somewhere from #6 to #9, but we were lucky to have him available at #10.

He was OK in Summer League. He showed good things but he is developing yet.

Most of the rookies did about the same. How Demin played? How Murray-Boyles played? Those two were selected before him.

Yeah, all three were OK but not impressive on the court but got experience and it was a nice first experience as a pros. They knew some coaches, sets...it was a good experience.

Coward (#11) couldn't even play because he was injured. That's much worse than not being super impressive as a rookie in Summer League.

[sunsbg]

#10 pick with Maluach available (Raptors didn't draft him mostly because of his visa's issue) was more valuable than #23 + 2026 unprotected pick IMO.

You never know with unprotected picks. They have value as a trade asset but you would need to trade him now or at the deadline before knowing the actual draft position.

What do you think is the ceiling of Maluach ? He certainly didn't show in college or SL being worth more than unprotected pick from projected top 5-6 worst team, much less another pick added. I don't see him as more than high role player, fringe star unfortunately. With how **** up this franchise's future is with Ishbia's suicide moves gambling again on a top pick in supposedly deep draft wouldn't been too bad. I had a look at comparisons for projected '26 top two picks, one is Tracy McGradey and the other - Devin Booker. Our FO would've picked a Booker clone in a heart beat lol.

High ceiling for sure. Look at the tools:

A mobile 7'2, 253 lbs with high motor, good shooting for a C , coachable, fast learner and hard worker.

We are talking about a 18/19 yo who played great his role in his freshman season at Duke.

He was highly expected to be drafted somewhere from #6 to #9, but we were lucky to have him available at #10.

He was OK in Summer League. He showed good things but he is developing yet.

Most of the rookies did about the same. How Demin played? How Murray-Boyles played? Those two were selected before him.

Yeah, all three were OK but not impressive on the court but got experience and it was a nice first experience as a pros. They knew some coaches, sets...it was a good experience.

Coward (#11) couldn't even play because he was injured. That's much worse than not being super impressive as a rookie in Summer League.

Still do you see anything like franchise player out of him you can potentially get from unprotected pick ? If unlucky I'm sure there would be some other lottery talent next draft who'll get you excited even with subpar SL play.