Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[Stratmaster]

This is starting to look like because they got raked over the coals for the Williams signing they are going hardball against Giddey which is the wrong lesson to learn from the Williams debacle. Which just proves how bad this front office is.

IMO, waiting to the last minute in these situations is the norm. The Bulls misread the market last year and thought Patrick would get a huge offer if he hit RFA so they paid a premium to lock him up early. The Bulls read the market on Giddey correctly and now they will reap the financial rewards.

And likely have him demand a trade after year 1. Alienating your best (at this time) player usually doesn't work out well. I am not debating whether they CAN pay him less. I am debating whether 16 mil over the next 4 seasons (with a contract front-loaded) is worth a player deciding this isn't where they want to be.

Your explanation of the Bulls paying Williams doesn't match the reasons the front office gave. They basically admitted they gave him the big contract thinking it would "motivate" him, didn't they? The crazy thing is that Giddey seems like the guy who could be motivated by getting paid. Most anyone could see Williams wasn't that guy.

Obviously just my opinion: The Bulls screwed up the Williams contract and are screwing up the Giddey situation. They should have handled Williams the way they are handling Giddey, and Giddey more like they handled Williams, without the ridiculous overpay they gave to Williams. Offer him a 4 year deal with a PO in year 4: (rough example) 30/27/24/23 for an AAV of 26 mil and be done with it. If Giddey excels then he renegotiates after year 3. He would have an AAV of 27 mil for the first 3 seasons. If he doesn't look like your starting PG going forward, you are "only" paying him 23 mil in year 4, and unless he completely melts down the contract should be reasonably tradeable in either year 3 or 4.

Seriously, if the plan is he is going to start at PG for you for at least the next few seasons, anything under 25 mil is an insult.

[Infinity2152]

I don't think there's a such thing as no comp. There are unique players, but they are extremely rare and you can still find comps. Let's look at comparison points:

Physicals:
Age: 22 (all players 25 and under)
Contract year: RFA, year 5 (Every year 5 RFA in the last 5 years)
Position: Guard/Forward, lead playmaker (Maybe half the league)
Height: 6'8" (Players between 6'6 and 6'9)
Athleticism: Average, maybe slightly below
Shooting: (looks average, Bulls probably using career in their comps, Agent using last season)
Would start using the last four years of data, 30 first round picks each year, maybe 30-50 players fit this range


Then raw production: (Again, Bulls probably using the whole season, Giddey's agent probably using after Lavine left and Giddey took over the offense)

Scoring: 15pts/gm season
Rebounds: 8.1
Assists: 7.2
Steals: 1.2
Blocks: .6

Few players will hit all three in points, rebounds and assists, many will hit several of them including stocks.

Major Advanced Stats: (Hard to quantify defense so for comparison, would need to use some numbers:
TS%: 57%
Steal rate 1.9
Block rate: 1.8
PER 18.1
VORP 2.7
BPM 3.0

I could go on. For analysis I'd use every NBA player whose reached RFA in the last five years, and input all those variables. Of course nobody is going to exactly match him. A computer would find a many that are similar in a lot of them. They'd find a few who were similar in most of them. Then you adjust for each difference. Adjustments vary by the importance of a factor. Contracts can't be negotiated by feelings of value, there has to be some computational proven method to present your opinion of value. Those factors have to be universally accepted in order for deals to ever get made.

I see people saying it's much different than houses, I respectfully object and I'll give you an example. My home is bigger than 90% of the homes on my block (height for position). My house is pretty new (22 year old player). Say I had the same number of bedrooms (average scoring), kitchen plus kitchenette (above average rebounding), and 1 extra bathrooms (above average assists). No basement at all (poor defense).

There will be no houses sold within the last 3 months close enough to it. You still have to find comps. You extend the search to 6 months. You extend the geographical range (generally want to be as close physically to the subject house as possibles. The reason you try to find close to exact matches are you don't want a lot of adjustments, especially in major areas. No basement or an extra bathroom count more than having a larger kitchen, for instance. As an agent, I could never say" I can't do an appraisal because there are no similar houses sold." You have to find the closest houses and adjust.

The markets are entirely different, with salary caps, RFA, etc, but there has to be an accepted set of comparison points most teams use. The thing about market value is it generally gives you a range. Market value is in practicality the average price you can get for what you're selling. In the NBA, there's a very limited number of buyers, so market affects whether a players signs or not and affects market value. When homes are not selling in an area, crime is going up, etc you have to adjust the price you came up with to fit the market or wait until the market rebounds. Very similar to Giddey's situation. Just my personal view,

As of right now, no one on the planet is allowed to offer Giddey more than the MLE other than the Bulls. That's a huge market distortion that warps valuation. Imagine if that on your street, the government imposed a cap on what people were allowed to sell their house for in the next year. Giddey has a choice to take the Bulls offer or take the QO (ie, lose like $17m @a $25m contract) and hope to get a better offer next year when again, there aren't many teams who will have capspace to offer him more than the MLE.

The fact that Giddey has to give up $17m now in hopes of getting more than what Chicago is offering next year gives the Bulls ridiculous leverage.

As of right now, there could be no buyers for a house. If I wait two months a buyer could appear. I've spoken several times and articles have been written about how the Jazz could clear enough cap to make a $30 mill offer to Giddey pretty easily. They're mostly there already. They created $22 mill in cap space and still have non-guaranteed players. They can certainly offer more than the MLE. Again, the Bucks also did not have enough cap space to sign Turner. You can't assume because there are no obvious buyers now, none will appear. People keep their houses on the markets for years if the right price doesn't come. Even when I give you the name of a specific team, and it's easy to see how they do it, how can people say that team doesn't exist? It does.

Stop thinking Giddey doesn't have options, because he does. And other teams do too. Now you're deciding that the Jazz and no other team will move for Giddey over the next few months, even if it gets contentious and the Bulls know Giddey wants out of here now. You all just think you can decide he's not going to take the QO and that's fact. HE COULD. PERIOD. End of discussion, there is literally no way in the world to prove he couldn't. That's one option. A team coming up with cap space in months is an option. You can't predict that.

Giddey's not giving up $17 mill if the Bulls offer is $22 mill. He's giving up $11 mill, to make $40-$60 mill more over the next 5 years. Nonody's arguing a $25 mill contract, and it doesn't appear the Bulls are offering that.

The logic people keep using, if a team wanted to do it, they'd have done it already is bad for so many reasons. He's a restricted free agent. Probably every team in the league believes the Bulls fully intend to re-sign him and match any reasonable offer. Bulls have to cooperate in a sign and trade, which they will not do to help a team take him. Why would any team make him an offer, knowing they could never get him unless they overpay to steal him? Teams didn't know the Bulls would be offering Giddey a low $22 mill or what the Bulls actual ceiling is.

[MrFortune3]

This is starting to look like because they got raked over the coals for the Williams signing they are going hardball against Giddey which is the wrong lesson to learn from the Williams debacle. Which just proves how bad this front office is.

I think they are trying the same approached used with LaVine. Only pay what you are forced to.
No teams really have money to spend so just bending over and taking it on a RFA doesn't make a ton of sense right now.
If there was a ton of money in the market right now, there would have been a quicker agreement in place.

[sco]

This is starting to look like because they got raked over the coals for the Williams signing they are going hardball against Giddey which is the wrong lesson to learn from the Williams debacle. Which just proves how bad this front office is.

IMO, waiting to the last minute in these situations is the norm. The Bulls misread the market last year and thought Patrick would get a huge offer if he hit RFA so they paid a premium to lock him up early. The Bulls read the market on Giddey correctly and now they will reap the financial rewards.

IMO there are two types of contract situations...obvious MAX contract situations where the player is obviously going to get a MAX elsewhere...those negotations are usually straight-forward. The other is EVERYBODY ELSE...those negotations are almost always tense because the player is trying to get as much as they can and the team is trying to preserve cap space for alternative purposes or not wanting to pay taxes.

Giddey is obviously the latter (unfortunately, because it would be great if he was a clear star). I'm sure both sides want to get a deal done, and something likely will get done because despite the big gap, it represents what I believe to be starting player (non-allstar) range. There is no disagreement on other issues like role and usage (like Kuminga). The flipside is that Giddey, while having shown some improved trajectory last season, is definitely not a #1 option on a contender, and if he left, while a setback, his level of play is largely replaceable in time via trade/FA/draft, and some would argue that that even might actually get us to contention sooner (not me).

[nomorezorro]

Not specific to any single story or agent, but agents are under a crap ton of pressure to get you an insane deal too. If they sign a guy who ends up underpaid, every other agent uses it against them to try to steal their clients. It's particularly rough for smaller or emerging agents that are at constant threat of being poached by the big boys.

this gets at a dynamic i think a lot of people are missing

i think anyone who's looking at this solely through the lens of "josh giddey" on one side and "the bulls" on the other is taking too narrow a view. the bulls aren't just randomly deciding to play hardball or overcorrecting for the patrick williams negotiations. giddey isn't just being crazy stubborn and refusing to come down off his asking price for no reason.

the talks with this year's RFAs have become precedent-setting negotiations, which is why all of them have dragged out this long and most of them reportedly have a significant gap between player and team. until a contract gets signed, the agents have every reason to act like the lack of spending this offseason is just a blip, a quirk of a one-off cap environment that won't have any effect on future FA periods. because the second they give in, that tips over a domino that will affect every negotiation going forward — teams will now be able to point at giddey and kuminga and grimes and say "sorry, but any contracts that predate those don't really apply as comps anymore..."

and similarly, until the contracts are signed, teams have every reason to act like this season's offseason is reflective of a full-fledged shift to a new cap reality, and that all players will need to adjust their salary expectations for as long as this CBA is in effect. and both sides have evidence to back up their arguments — the tension between these two incompatible-but-defensible perspectives is what these negotiations are all about, and until the ink dries, there's no way of actually knowing which side is going to win out (or what middle ground they ultimately land on)

[Infinity2152]

Not going to lie, this thread kind of depresses me. Bulls have been looking for hope, looking for a great young prospect to come thru. Drafted Coby high, drafted Pat high, looking for a young star. We get one for Caruso. A 21 year old guy who brings what we needed most, a playmaker and guy who can push the offense. Seems like a great guy, always smiling, always hustling, always producing. Constantly improving. I would 100% be thrilled if this was the guy we drafted instead of Pat and this was where he was in year 4. He and Matas are the current bright spot on the team, and we know why Matas is, he certainly didn't put up crazy numbers, pretty good ones. Haven't heard one person say "He could regress like Pat and Ayo!"

If we're talking about 22 year olds will probably regress and are not worth it when they're putting in the work and producing the numbers, why even try? Giddey's gone, we're losing WAY more games. In every way, I support bringing Giddey back and adamantly deny he's easily replaced. I hope other fans are telling him that. How do you root for a team without rooting for the players? Who on the Bulls outside Matas are people really hoping to break out or be great players anytime soon?

Keep trying to shine some light, but the darkness and negativity is overwhelming. Always assuming and basing every decision on the worst outcomes for Giddey as a player, yet super optimistic about the worst outcomes for the Bulls (and fans who love to see Giddey run this offense) not even being possible.

I'm literally struggling to come up with the last player we traded for I though was a better prospect or deal than Giddey. Or that I liked more for how he carried himself and pushed the team. Maybe Caruso for short-term, not long term. Building a great team is not all about saving every nickel.

How many people here really believe in Josh Giddey and really want him to be our starting PG the next 5 years? Maybe that should have been the first question. My hands up.

[Tetlak]

This is starting to look like because they got raked over the coals for the Williams signing they are going hardball against Giddey which is the wrong lesson to learn from the Williams debacle. Which just proves how bad this front office is.

IMO, waiting to the last minute in these situations is the norm. The Bulls misread the market last year and thought Patrick would get a huge offer if he hit RFA so they paid a premium to lock him up early. The Bulls read the market on Giddey correctly and now they will reap the financial rewards.

And likely have him demand a trade after year 1. Alienating your best (at this time) player usually doesn't work out well. I am not debating whether they CAN pay him less. I am debating whether 16 mil over the next 4 seasons (with a contract front-loaded) is worth a player deciding this isn't where they want to be.

Your explanation of the Bulls paying Williams doesn't match the reasons the front office gave. They basically admitted they gave him the big contract thinking it would "motivate" him, didn't they? The crazy thing is that Giddey seems like the guy who could be motivated by getting paid. Most anyone could see Williams wasn't that guy.

Obviously just my opinion: The Bulls screwed up the Williams contract and are screwing up the Giddey situation. They should have handled Williams the way they are handling Giddey, and Giddey more like they handled Williams, without the ridiculous overpay they gave to Williams. Offer him a 4 year deal with a PO in year 4: (rough example) 30/27/24/23 for an AAV of 26 mil and be done with it. If Giddey excels then he renegotiates after year 3. He would have an AAV of 27 mil for the first 3 seasons. If he doesn't look like your starting PG going forward, you are "only" paying him 23 mil in year 4, and unless he completely melts down the contract should be reasonably tradeable in either year 3 or 4.

Seriously, if the plan is he is going to start at PG for you for at least the next few seasons, anything under 25 mil is an insult.

You've been watching the NBA for a long time.

You really think trade demands from non-superstars are prevalent?

This guy isn't demanding **** except for more annual salary. He's not getting it. He will play out his contract and be happy he's on one of the only 3-ish teams in the NBA he gets to be the man.

[Stratmaster]

IMO, waiting to the last minute in these situations is the norm. The Bulls misread the market last year and thought Patrick would get a huge offer if he hit RFA so they paid a premium to lock him up early. The Bulls read the market on Giddey correctly and now they will reap the financial rewards.

And likely have him demand a trade after year 1. Alienating your best (at this time) player usually doesn't work out well. I am not debating whether they CAN pay him less. I am debating whether 16 mil over the next 4 seasons (with a contract front-loaded) is worth a player deciding this isn't where they want to be.

Your explanation of the Bulls paying Williams doesn't match the reasons the front office gave. They basically admitted they gave him the big contract thinking it would "motivate" him, didn't they? The crazy thing is that Giddey seems like the guy who could be motivated by getting paid. Most anyone could see Williams wasn't that guy.

Obviously just my opinion: The Bulls screwed up the Williams contract and are screwing up the Giddey situation. They should have handled Williams the way they are handling Giddey, and Giddey more like they handled Williams, without the ridiculous overpay they gave to Williams. Offer him a 4 year deal with a PO in year 4: (rough example) 30/27/24/23 for an AAV of 26 mil and be done with it. If Giddey excels then he renegotiates after year 3. He would have an AAV of 27 mil for the first 3 seasons. If he doesn't look like your starting PG going forward, you are "only" paying him 23 mil in year 4, and unless he completely melts down the contract should be reasonably tradeable in either year 3 or 4.

Seriously, if the plan is he is going to start at PG for you for at least the next few seasons, anything under 25 mil is an insult.

You've been watching the NBA for a long time.

You really think trade demands from non-superstars are prevalent?

This guy isn't demanding **** except for more annual salary. He's not getting it. He will play out his contract and be happy he's on one of the only 3-ish teams in the NBA he gets to be the man.

Yes. Non-superstars often let it be known they want to be traded. It's not like the team performance is likely to make him decide he loves it in Chicago. Whether or not the Bulls accommodate him is certainly another story.

Where are you getting this opinion from?

What have you seen that indicates he will "play out his contract and be happy he's on one of the only 3-ish teams in the NBA he gets to be the man." It is already being reported he is frustrated and negotiations are contentious. What makes you think he gets to be "the man"? You think he will shoot more than White? Good luck with that. You think he will be the focus of the offense like Matas?

Respectfully, your comment just sounds like tough guy bluster with absolutely no reasoning behind it.

Let me be clear again on my opinion. The Bulls appear to have an opportunity to underpay him. They might just do so. My opinion is that he won't like that and it may not be the best thing for the team going forward. Your stated opinion is he will he happy being underpaid. The underlying feeling I get from you is more "IDGAF what Giddey thinks".

[jnrjr79]

Not going to lie, this thread kind of depresses me. Bulls have been looking for hope, looking for a great young prospect to come thru. Drafted Coby high, drafted Pat high, looking for a young star. We get one for Caruso. A 21 year old guy who brings what we needed most, a playmaker and guy who can push the offense. Seems like a great guy, always smiling, always hustling, always producing. Constantly improving. I would 100% be thrilled if this was the guy we drafted instead of Pat and this was where he was in year 4. He and Matas are the current bright spot on the team, and we know why Matas is, he certainly didn't put up crazy numbers, pretty good ones. Haven't heard one person say "He could regress like Pat and Ayo!"

If we're talking about 22 year olds will probably regress and are not worth it when they're putting in the work and producing the numbers, why even try? Giddey's gone, we're losing WAY more games. In every way, I support bringing Giddey back and adamantly deny he's easily replaced. I hope other fans are telling him that. How do you root for a team without rooting for the players? Who on the Bulls outside Matas are people really hoping to break out or be great players anytime soon?

Keep trying to shine some light, but the darkness and negativity is overwhelming. Always assuming and basing every decision on the worst outcomes for Giddey as a player, yet super optimistic about the worst outcomes for the Bulls (and fans who love to see Giddey run this offense) not even being possible.

I'm literally struggling to come up with the last player we traded for I though was a better prospect or deal than Giddey. Or that I liked more for how he carried himself and pushed the team. Maybe Caruso for short-term, not long term. Building a great team is not all about saving every nickel.

How many people here really believe in Josh Giddey and really want him to be our starting PG the next 5 years? Maybe that should have been the first question. My hands up.

How long have you been Josh Giddey’s agent?

[jnrjr79]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

[Ben Wilson25]

I’m surprised how many people are worried about Josh getting his feelings hurt. In the NBA, unless you’re at the end of your career, once you sign a deal you’re immediately thinking about your next contract. If he signs an extension he’ll have zero incentive to dog it since in his mind he’ll be hoping to play himself into a really big deal when he’s 25-26.

[Bulliever2020]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

It's beyond ridiculous. Giddey is going to pout and not play as hard for the Bulls because he got a 100 million dollar contract instead of a 120 million contract? Give me a break. All this hand wringing and Giddey will eventually sign a multi year deal with the Bulls and he will play the same way he always has after doing so. He is only hurting himself and his reputation if he dogs it.

[Infinity2152]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

Absolutely cap and deliberate overstatement. I have never said anything even remotely like not hurting his feelings is a good reason to pay him more than necessary. I've never even said he should be paid more than necessary, period. We drastically disagree on what's NECESSARY to get him to sign a long-term contract. And we clearly disagree on the best way to do it.

You take a statement that having a bad relationship with a player is a horrible way to do business like I said we should just give him what he wants. I've repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said both sides should be moving and talking and the Bulls, as the much larger, much more experienced party should be the first to make those moves. I've said $22 mill was a stupidly low, insulting offer. You can disagree with that. Does not mean I think we shouldn't negotiate with Giddey. Just like I don't think ignoring personal and business relationships have absolutely no effect on how a player plays and deals with the team in the future. You want to ignore any factor outside money. I've never said a thing about signing a deal in 2029. Way things are going now, he could get a player option to take that $22 mill and not even want to be here in 2029.

You go there with the stupid ass personal insults of being unhinged. Unhinged is pretty extreme. Let's get started then. He's already made generational wealth. He'll make over $10 mill more this year, regardless of what happens and that doesn't include his shoe deal or other endorsements. Dumb ass point. Do you have any idea what his net worth is now, or will be? He takes the QO this year, he's getting a long term contract from somebody. the only risk is he has a career ending injury. That happens less than 2% of the time by 23 with players with no previous major signs. That's his risk. Vs possibly getting an extra $30+ mill. Only odds he's REALLY betting is he can make the money up in 2026. If he's not moving from $30 mill, he already believes that. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions..

What's really hilarious is all this dumb nonsense like we don't see players wilding out and in beefs with their teams every single year. It's always disastrous when it's a major player. You would think some of y'all were Giddey's roommates, how sure you are how he's going to deal with this situation. Ever talked to him AT ALL? Even seen him in real life? And it's not going to crater his value. Old ass Butler forced his way out after, didn't play great, suspended, got PAID immediately by the Warriors. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions.

How long have I been Giddey's agent? Ok.

[jnrjr79]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

Absolutely cap and deliberate overstatement. I have never said anything even remotely like not hurting his feelings is a good reason to pay him more than necessary. I've never even said he should be paid more than necessary, period. We drastically disagree on what's NECESSARY to get him to sign a long-term contract. And we clearly disagree on the best way to do it.

You take a statement that having a bad relationship with a player is a horrible way to do business like I said we should just give him what he wants. I've repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said both sides should be moving and talking and the Bulls, as the much larger, much more experienced party should be the first to make those moves. I've said $22 mill was a stupidly low, insulting offer. You can disagree with that. Does not mean I think we shouldn't negotiate with Giddey. Just like I don't think ignoring personal and business relationships have absolutely no effect on how a player plays and deals with the team in the future. You want to ignore any factor outside money. I've never said a thing about signing a deal in 2029. Way things are going now, he could get a player option to take that $22 mill and not even want to be here in 2029.

You go there with the stupid ass personal insults of being unhinged. Unhinged is pretty extreme. Let's get started then. He's already made generational wealth. He'll make over $10 mill more this year, regardless of what happens and that doesn't include his shoe deal or other endorsements. Dumb ass point. Do you have any idea what his net worth is now, or will be? He takes the QO this year, he's getting a long term contract from somebody. the only risk is he has a career ending injury. That happens less than 2% of the time by 23 with players with no previous major signs. That's his risk. Vs possibly getting an extra $30+ mill. Only odds he's REALLY betting is he can make the money up in 2026. If he's not moving from $30 mill, he already believes that. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions..

What's really hilarious is all this dumb nonsense like we don't see players wilding out and in beefs with their teams every single year. It's always disastrous when it's a major player. You would think some of y'all were Giddey's roommates, how sure you are how he's going to deal with this situation. Ever talked to him AT ALL? Even seen him in real life? And it's not going to crater his value. Old ass Butler forced his way out after, didn't play great, suspended, got PAID immediately by the Warriors. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions.

How long have I been Giddey's agent? Ok.

I wasn’t talking about you, which is why my lighthearted joke about being Giddey’s agent was in a separate post from the one you’re responding to.

[Infinity2152]

How about this? Getting a little tired of the clique system running around in here. Updating my friend/foe list in a little while. Anybody who's tired of the moaning, thinks my ideas are deranged, etc, let's block each other. You don't have to see mine, I don't have to see yours. Open invitation. Plenty of guys in here we can debate civilly, some it seems we can't. Don't need the stress in my life, ready to smack some people in their mouths for how they're talking. No grief, no argument, we talk and share with other people.

[Infinity2152]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

Absolutely cap and deliberate overstatement. I have never said anything even remotely like not hurting his feelings is a good reason to pay him more than necessary. I've never even said he should be paid more than necessary, period. We drastically disagree on what's NECESSARY to get him to sign a long-term contract. And we clearly disagree on the best way to do it.

You take a statement that having a bad relationship with a player is a horrible way to do business like I said we should just give him what he wants. I've repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly said both sides should be moving and talking and the Bulls, as the much larger, much more experienced party should be the first to make those moves. I've said $22 mill was a stupidly low, insulting offer. You can disagree with that. Does not mean I think we shouldn't negotiate with Giddey. Just like I don't think ignoring personal and business relationships have absolutely no effect on how a player plays and deals with the team in the future. You want to ignore any factor outside money. I've never said a thing about signing a deal in 2029. Way things are going now, he could get a player option to take that $22 mill and not even want to be here in 2029.

You go there with the stupid ass personal insults of being unhinged. Unhinged is pretty extreme. Let's get started then. He's already made generational wealth. He'll make over $10 mill more this year, regardless of what happens and that doesn't include his shoe deal or other endorsements. Dumb ass point. Do you have any idea what his net worth is now, or will be? He takes the QO this year, he's getting a long term contract from somebody. the only risk is he has a career ending injury. That happens less than 2% of the time by 23 with players with no previous major signs. That's his risk. Vs possibly getting an extra $30+ mill. Only odds he's REALLY betting is he can make the money up in 2026. If he's not moving from $30 mill, he already believes that. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions..

What's really hilarious is all this dumb nonsense like we don't see players wilding out and in beefs with their teams every single year. It's always disastrous when it's a major player. You would think some of y'all were Giddey's roommates, how sure you are how he's going to deal with this situation. Ever talked to him AT ALL? Even seen him in real life? And it's not going to crater his value. Old ass Butler forced his way out after, didn't play great, suspended, got PAID immediately by the Warriors. People talking like this stuff matters exactly zero percent are just trolling or dead set in their opinions.

How long have I been Giddey's agent? Ok.

I wasn’t talking about you, which is why my lighthearted joke about being Giddey’s agent was in a separate post from the one you’re responding to.

Thousand apologies then sir. I absolutely take fault.

[Stratmaster]

I swear this is the first time I’ve ever seen a thread arguing that not hurting someone’s feelings is a good reason to pay them more than necessary.

If you want to argue Giddey will play on the QO if he doesn’t get a certain number, fine. But being worried he’ll sign a 4-5 year contract for $100 million or whatever, but be so mad about it that he’ll become a malcontent or not agree to a further deal in 2029 or whatever? That seems a little unhinged to me.

Josh Giddey is 22 years old and overwhelmingly likely to be on the precipice of generational wealth. He’ll be fine.

That is a ridiculous characterization of what I said. To act like NBA players don't become malcontents over contracts seems unhinged to me.

But if he gets 4/100 and you think that is fair we are pretty much on the same page.

[Lexluthor]

I hope we sign him to a one year tender . We can find a better point guard in 2026 draft

[Dez]

I hope we sign him to a one year tender . We can find a better point guard in 2026 draft

Lol no.

[Pipp33]

Not going to lie, this thread kind of depresses me. Bulls have been looking for hope, looking for a great young prospect to come thru. Drafted Coby high, drafted Pat high, looking for a young star. We get one for Caruso. A 21 year old guy who brings what we needed most, a playmaker and guy who can push the offense. Seems like a great guy, always smiling, always hustling, always producing. Constantly improving. I would 100% be thrilled if this was the guy we drafted instead of Pat and this was where he was in year 4. He and Matas are the current bright spot on the team, and we know why Matas is, he certainly didn't put up crazy numbers, pretty good ones. Haven't heard one person say "He could regress like Pat and Ayo!"

If we're talking about 22 year olds will probably regress and are not worth it when they're putting in the work and producing the numbers, why even try? Giddey's gone, we're losing WAY more games. In every way, I support bringing Giddey back and adamantly deny he's easily replaced. I hope other fans are telling him that. How do you root for a team without rooting for the players? Who on the Bulls outside Matas are people really hoping to break out or be great players anytime soon?

Keep trying to shine some light, but the darkness and negativity is overwhelming. Always assuming and basing every decision on the worst outcomes for Giddey as a player, yet super optimistic about the worst outcomes for the Bulls (and fans who love to see Giddey run this offense) not even being possible.

I'm literally struggling to come up with the last player we traded for I though was a better prospect or deal than Giddey. Or that I liked more for how he carried himself and pushed the team. Maybe Caruso for short-term, not long term. Building a great team is not all about saving every nickel.

How many people here really believe in Josh Giddey and really want him to be our starting PG the next 5 years? Maybe that should have been the first question. My hands up.

Summed up my thoughts too...

I swear that some fans want every player we have to fail.

Giddey was an absolute shining light in another ho-hum season. And yes, his best play wasthe last half of the season, BUT people forget that whilst Lavine was still here, Donovan was not letting Giddey run the whole game. It was the Lavine and Coby show.

Once Lavine was gone, Giddey was allowed to play his game and that's why the boost came.Very little to do with who he was playing against..the biggest restriction he had was his own coach and team letting him play. His shooting has iproved year on year and he's still younger than lots of rookies coming into the league.

He's never going to be a defensive lock down, but he works harder on that than he's given credit for, and cops more hate than Coby, who I think is a worse defender than Giddey.

Bulls better not screw this up, or we will regret another crap front office move