Just "nominally" speaking, has there ever been a better PO run than Jokic's '23?

[NZB2323]

Does defense count? Guess not, because Jokic's not even a 2-way player...
MJ, Shaq, and Olajuwon's playoff runs are way better, and all the other All-Defensive Team players who had big offensive numbers in the playoffs too.

I agree to a degree, but if I remember correctly, Jokic had very impressive rim protection numbers from that playoff run.

[bonita_the_frog]

Does defense count? Guess not, because Jokic's not even a 2-way player...
MJ, Shaq, and Olajuwon's playoff runs are way better, and all the other All-Defensive Team players who had big offensive numbers in the playoffs too.

I agree to a degree, but if I remember correctly, Jokic had very impressive rim protection numbers from that playoff run.

Oh ok, as long as he's a 2-way player.
I just don't want to disrespect all the All-Defensive guys who score big too.

[NZB2323]

Does defense count? Guess not, because Jokic's not even a 2-way player...
MJ, Shaq, and Olajuwon's playoff runs are way better, and all the other All-Defensive Team players who had big offensive numbers in the playoffs too.

I agree to a degree, but if I remember correctly, Jokic had very impressive rim protection numbers from that playoff run.

Oh ok, as long as he's a 2-way player.

He has strengths and weaknesses on defense. No one is claiming he’s the best defensive player, but there are things he does well, and opponents shot poorly against him in that playoff run.

[Optms]

Shaq, Lebron, Jordan, Curry, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, pick your player and year. Not sure how this is a serious question.

[NZB2323]

Shaq, Lebron, Jordan, Curry, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, pick your player and year. Not sure how this is a serious question.

What year of Kobe is better than Jokic in 2023?

[GeorgeSears]

You can lie to yourselves all you want, but when you compare Jokic's 23 run to any of the last 20 Finals runs, he comes out on top.

[FuShengTHEGreat]

Olajuwon in 95 is imho the GOAT individual playoff performance irregardless of position. And certainly amongst Centers.

[Bash1676]

30/13.5/9.5 with 63.1% and just 3 TO per game.

I know the quality of opposition is regarded as one of the "easiest". Could be.
But, on the other hand, he faced two defensive first tiers in Gobert and AD.

Thoughts?

Superteam stacked team are not eligible. I think the Dirk Notwitski dallas Mavericks championship, the Giannis antetokunbo championship and the lakers championship against the Boston Celtics superteam comes to mind

[Asianiac_24]

IMO he had the best playoffs run aside from LeBron in 2018, but Bron did not win. LeBron in 2016/2012/2013 did not play better than Jokic IMO

[SpurNani]

All time weak competition for that playoff run

3 play in teams under 44 wins

Suns team that had KD and Book play 8 regular szn games together before playoffs

Great play from Jokic but not memorable due to competition.

[SpurNani]

IMO he had the best playoffs run aside from LeBron in 2018, but Bron did not win. LeBron in 2016/2012/2013 did not play better than Jokic IMO

Lebron is a two way player. He carried much more responsibility than Jokic those years and played much better competition.

[SpurNani]

All time weak competition made weaker by Jokic playing teams with No Naz Reid, No Jaden McDaniels, No Chris Paul, No Tyler Herro.

[MrPainfulTruth]

The only comparable runs are Dirk overcoming basically everyone including the Miami superteam and the previous champs, and maybe Kawhi. Everyone else who was listed in here is not even remotely comparable because they were on far, far better teams with a lot more help. Thats why those three titles should be considered more than "just" one ring. Dirks ring dwarfs every single superteam title imho.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Shaq, Lebron, Jordan, Curry, Magic, Duncan, Kobe, pick your player and year. Not sure how this is a serious question.

Now name the Kobe, D-Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Pippen, Klay, Kareem, Robinson, Parker, Ginobili, Shaq, Gasol that Jokic had to support him.

Not sure how this is a serious statement.

Only Dirk and maybe Kawhi compare to Jokics title. Noone else.

[Bloodbather]

It's up there. There's a tendency for a nostalgia bias when questions like this are posed, which counteracts the recency bias, but I think it’s up there when you look at the data.

Two issues in his case: Quality of opposition wasn't that great and his defensive impact is lacklustre compared to some of the people he'd be compared to here. Strictly offensively, though, it might just be the best run ever.

There are a couple of good candidates, but I think Hakeem's 1995 run was pretty insane considering the opposition. He took down Malone-led Jazz, Barkley-led Suns, D-Rob-led Spurs, and Shaq-led Magic, outplaying every single one of them. Averaged 33-10-4-3, outplaying his opposition on offense and dominating on defense.

Other candidates off the top of my head are Jordan's 1991 and 1993 runs, LeBron's 2012 and 2016 runs, Duncan's 2003, Dirk's 2011, Kawhi's 2019, and Giannis' 2021. There's probably some candidates from previous eras also.

Has to be said also, LeBron's 2018 run might be superior to all of them if you consider the ones that didn't end in a title. It was insane how he carried that Cavs team to the Finals. Almost stole Game 1 away against the most loaded team in history on his own, too.

[art_tatum]

Off my head

Dirk
Lebron in 2015 where Cleveland didn't win and Iggy won it for eventually bringing him down to demi-god level then godlike.
Lebron 2018
Kahwi 2019/Shaq 2001/Timmy 2004(super under rates) probably equal to Jokic

Also really rate Giannis' close out effort 2021

lebron shot 39% and 31% from 3 in the 2015 finals. out of 6 games only the 3rd game he had a positive +/-. he shot badly even before the warriors started iggy.
not really god-like or semi god like. warriors just also sucked ass on offensive bc they couldnt figure out the cavs off ball scheme on curry. they ended up just letting him dribble the ball up the court to win lol.

i agree with dirk kawhi shaq and timmy
lebron 2016 came back 1-3 is a hm too
so is curry 2023 taking down the next years finals matchup in the mavs and celtics with wiggins as his 2nd best player.

[Peak Brunson]

Of course not, Jokic is better than Michael Jordan, we've known this for a long time.

[Rubios]

OP again. Thanks for the answers and the different approaches.

An essential point of my question is not being addressed.
Thread title doesn't say "greatest", "most legendary". Ofc I'm not comparing it to LeBron's 2016 (or 2018), Duncan in... 2003, IIRC. Or Dirk's 2011.
Those were historic, for the books, the 2023 ring was almost anticlimactic.

Nuggets' didn't need a heroic journey.
But, at the end of the day, Jokic faced (and obliterated) Gobert, Anthony Davis and Bam Bam. His individual opposition was 1st tier.

And still, 30/13.5/9.5
63.1%
3 TO

You shouldn't average 30 vs Gobert, a fully healthy AD and -to a lesser extent- Bam.
You shouldn't catch more than 13, either.

[DimesandKnicks]

OP again. Thanks for the answers and the different approaches.

An essential point of my question is not being addressed.
Thread title doesn't say "greatest", "most legendary". Ofc I'm not comparing it to LeBron's 2016 or Duncan in... 2003, IIRC. Or Dirk's 2011.
Those were historic, for the books, the 2023 ring was almost anticlimactic.

Nuggets' didn't need a heroic journey.
But, at the end of the day, Jokic faced (and obliterated) Gobert, Anthony Davis and Bam Bam. His individual opposition was 1st tier.

And still, 30/13.5/9.5
63.1%
3 TO

You shouldn't average 30 vs Gobert, a fully healthy AD and -to a lesser extent- Bam.
You shouldn't catch more than 13, either.

Jokic is an elite rim protector and rebounder. Davis is an elite shot blocker and his defensive prowess comes from his switch ability. Bam is a poor man’s Davis in terms of his switch ability sans the shot blocking. None of these players are known for being great post defenders, they don’t exist in today’s NBA

[Optms]

The only comparable runs are Dirk overcoming basically everyone including the Miami superteam and the previous champs, and maybe Kawhi. Everyone else who was listed in here is not even remotely comparable because they were on far, far better teams with a lot more help. Thats why those three titles should be considered more than "just" one ring. Dirks ring dwarfs every single superteam title imho.

Dirk went through a loaded West that included the 2 time championship Lakers with Kobe and Pau, OKC with KD, Westbrook, Harden and then faced the Miami Heat superteam.

Its insulting to Dirk to even compare facing that all time great level competition to Joker facing a washed Kyle Lowry and Kevin Love in the Finals. And no Tyler Herro. Not a single team he faced was a 50 win team.

So what Dirk accomplished is the opposite of Jokic. That is why one ring is legendary and the other is mediocre in the grand scheme. Jokic basically stat padded his way against a watered down product. The league has gotten better. Thus the Nuggets being a 2nd round team since.