ImageImageImageImageImage

Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15

Moderators: 7 Footer, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, Duffman100, tsherkin, Reeko, lebron stopper, HiJiNX

User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 66,059
And1: 60,871
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#361 » by Raps in 4 » Today 3:14 am

tanuki1031 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
WuTang_OG wrote:If true, the below says he's meeting with Rogers and the board next. What an idiot Pelley is. He thinks Casey can be like Pinball Clemons. Buddy this isn't the CFL. Bozo.



Image


I **** knew it. I **** knew Casey was coming for Masai's job as a clapback from getting fired after winning COTY.

This is realization came to me the first time Casey started attending Raptors home games immediately after stepping down as Piston's HC, and entering an unspecified FO role. He's been coming to Raptors games with his wife since two years ago even when the Pistons were not scheduled to play the Raptors in Toronto.


That's some Lawrence Frank type ****.
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 66,059
And1: 60,871
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#362 » by Raps in 4 » Today 3:18 am

If we hire Casey I'm taking a break from this team. Maybe this sport. I'll just watch the Bills since they're untainted by Rogers.

**** sports in this city.
tanuki1031
Veteran
Posts: 2,621
And1: 3,540
Joined: Jan 26, 2012

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#363 » by tanuki1031 » Today 3:19 am

Raps in 4 wrote:
tanuki1031 wrote:
Raps in 4 wrote:
Image


I **** knew it. I **** knew Casey was coming for Masai's job as a clapback from getting fired after winning COTY.

This is realization came to me the first time Casey started attending Raptors home games immediately after stepping down as Piston's HC, and entering an unspecified FO role. He's been coming to Raptors games with his wife since two years ago even when the Pistons were not scheduled to play the Raptors in Toronto.

Edit: I knew I posted something as soon as I saw Casey's 5D Rock Chess dropping. That was the offseason he moved to an FO role and that horrible loss the PG thread is referring to came days after Casey was first welcomed to the ACC in the audience for a Raptors game where the Pistons were not the opponent, which I immediately found strange.

Image



That's some Lawrence Frank type ****.


I edited my post. I found the posts I made back in 2023 as it first happened.

Gross!
User avatar
NinjaBro
RealGM
Posts: 27,264
And1: 43,177
Joined: Aug 21, 2014
Location: Shamblesland
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#364 » by NinjaBro » Today 3:24 am

It's all over guys, all over. Now that you guys brought it up, it was so strange back then when Casey would show up in our games for no reason. This was the same guy that would haul ass out of the arena through a different entrance so that he wouldn't have to shake hands with Nurse and the other assistants when he was coaching the Pistons.

For him to come back and watch our games in the stands as a fan was weird AF. Now we know, this has been in the works for years.

It's all over guys, all over.
Yeezus_
RealGM
Posts: 11,020
And1: 14,073
Joined: Feb 18, 2009
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#365 » by Yeezus_ » Today 3:28 am

Keith is as incompetent as it gets with his evaluations of what makes a good president and GM. TFC is a clear example. We’ll see about the Leafs. The Raptors are next unfortunately.
Yeezy SZN approaching
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,662
And1: 2,300
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#366 » by Kreamy » Today 3:31 am

WuTang_OG wrote:If true, the below says he's meeting with Rogers and the board next. What an idiot Pelley is. He thinks Casey can be like Pinball Clemons. Buddy this isn't the CFL. Bozo.

The Detroit Pistons front office executive — and former head coach — is a leading candidate for the Toronto Raptors' president of basketball operations position, according to a person with knowledge of the situation, who told the Free Press but requested anonymity due to ongoing discussions.

Casey has been through multiple rounds of interviews, and will meet with Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment for a final round this week.


What a disaster if true.
anotherhomer
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,861
And1: 3,476
Joined: Jun 23, 2008

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#367 » by anotherhomer » Today 3:32 am

Yeezus_ wrote:Keith is as incompetent as it gets with his evaluations of what makes a good president and GM. TFC is a clear example. We’ll see about the Leafs. The Raptors are next unfortunately.


man this is a mess
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 29,611
And1: 32,389
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#368 » by YogurtProducer » Today 3:37 am

Ackshun wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Honeslty don’t hate a Casey hire. Wasn’t a great Xs and Os coach but our best player development era did take place under his watch.

He also seems like the kind of guy who wouldn’t get overly involved in areas he doesn’t know (scouting?).

I wouldn’t really mind that hire, and I wasn’t a fan of his when he was our coach. But he could set a good culture which is likely more than you could ask for from a president.


I don’t think he’s qualified to run anything but he did recruit Nurse to join. His decision making off the court isn’t too bad.

Even if his coaching abilities aren’t great.

Gotta be something better out there

Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?
What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,662
And1: 2,300
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#369 » by Kreamy » Today 4:17 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
Ackshun wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Honeslty don’t hate a Casey hire. Wasn’t a great Xs and Os coach but our best player development era did take place under his watch.

He also seems like the kind of guy who wouldn’t get overly involved in areas he doesn’t know (scouting?).

I wouldn’t really mind that hire, and I wasn’t a fan of his when he was our coach. But he could set a good culture which is likely more than you could ask for from a president.


I don’t think he’s qualified to run anything but he did recruit Nurse to join. His decision making off the court isn’t too bad.

Even if his coaching abilities aren’t great.

Gotta be something better out there

Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?


What are Casey's qualifications or track record as a front office executive? Can he negotiate contracts and trades? What's his scouting philosophy? The fact he's even being considered shows how out of touch Pelley is. What a joke.
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 29,611
And1: 32,389
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#370 » by YogurtProducer » Today 4:34 am

Kreamy wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
Ackshun wrote:
I don’t think he’s qualified to run anything but he did recruit Nurse to join. His decision making off the court isn’t too bad.

Even if his coaching abilities aren’t great.

Gotta be something better out there

Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?


What are Casey's qualifications or track record as a front office executive? Can he negotiate contracts and trades? What's his scouting philosophy? The fact he's even being considered shows how out of touch Pelley is. What a joke.

Does a President or a GM even primarily do those things? Odds are Bobby (the cap guru) would still be negotiating contracts, and he would be the one making trades (as he has been for years with Masai as the president).

I just honestly don’t know what a Presidents job description really would even be outside of general oversight of the entire operation. I doubt anyone here knows either.

My guess is you don’t even know most of the leagues presidents. They aren’t necessarily hands on in the day to day workings of a team or its team building.

But to be fair, the Pistons have been expecting more success since Casey moved to the FO than it was before.
What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023
YogurtProducer
RealGM
Posts: 29,611
And1: 32,389
Joined: Jul 22, 2013
Location: Saskatchewan
       

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#371 » by YogurtProducer » Today 4:37 am

MavCarter wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Honeslty don’t hate a Casey hire. Wasn’t a great Xs and Os coach but our best player development era did take place under his watch.

He also seems like the kind of guy who wouldn’t get overly involved in areas he doesn’t know (scouting?).

I wouldn’t really mind that hire, and I wasn’t a fan of his when he was our coach. But he could set a good culture which is likely more than you could ask for from a president.


The culture started and ended with lowry and derozan. I would argue lowry more. His "player development" was due to the FO drafting well and forcing him to play the young guys by not adding vets on the bench. If we left it up to casey we would have probably saw more of alan anderson over tross if they gave him a chance :lol:

I mean is it the FO drafting well or is it Toronto having a good player development system to develop players adequately?

It’s a bit of both to be quite honest. You can’t take it away from Casey that during his tenure players simply improved. And not just young guys either. Lowry had his best years under Casey as a guy in his late 20s.

Now - a lot of that is Masai/FO but part of that is your coaching and development staff.
What an absolute failure and disaster this franchise is, ran by one of the most incompetent front offices in the league.
- Raptors RealGM Forum re: Masai Ujiri - June 2023
Kreamy
RealGM
Posts: 15,662
And1: 2,300
Joined: Aug 26, 2001
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#372 » by Kreamy » Today 4:46 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
Kreamy wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?


What are Casey's qualifications or track record as a front office executive? Can he negotiate contracts and trades? What's his scouting philosophy? The fact he's even being considered shows how out of touch Pelley is. What a joke.

Does a President or a GM even primarily do those things? Odds are Bobby (the cap guru) would still be negotiating contracts, and he would be the one making trades (as he has been for years with Masai as the president).

I just honestly don’t know what a Presidents job description really would even be outside of general oversight of the entire operation. I doubt anyone here knows either.

My guess is you don’t even know most of the leagues presidents. They aren’t necessarily hands on in the day to day workings of a team or its team building.

But to be fair, the Pistons have been expecting more success since Casey moved to the FO than it was before.


You're naive to assume Bobby or anyone would stick around and work for Casey. Do you trust Casey to then go out and hire a brand new front office if the current staff leaves? What exactly does Casey do for the Pistons? His title is "front office associate" which sounds like a ceremonial advisor role.
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 66,059
And1: 60,871
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#373 » by Raps in 4 » Today 4:51 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
Kreamy wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?


What are Casey's qualifications or track record as a front office executive? Can he negotiate contracts and trades? What's his scouting philosophy? The fact he's even being considered shows how out of touch Pelley is. What a joke.

Does a President or a GM even primarily do those things? Odds are Bobby (the cap guru) would still be negotiating contracts, and he would be the one making trades (as he has been for years with Masai as the president).

I just honestly don’t know what a Presidents job description really would even be outside of general oversight of the entire operation. I doubt anyone here knows either.

My guess is you don’t even know most of the leagues presidents. They aren’t necessarily hands on in the day to day workings of a team or its team building.

But to be fair, the Pistons have been expecting more success since Casey moved to the FO than it was before.


Bobby won't stay on under Casey.
User avatar
CPT
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 14,303
And1: 2,773
Joined: Jan 21, 2002
Location: Osaka/Seoul/Toronto
         

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#374 » by CPT » Today 5:11 am

To me, the Casey thing would be more funny than obviously bad. It would have a chance of turning bad though, for sure.

This is why there were lots of people like me, who thought Masai deserved to be fired based on recent performance, but didn't actually want it to happen for a variety of reasons, one of which we're seeing on full display.

In one of those threads, I made the point that front office hirings rarely look good when they happen. It's either "who is this guy?" or "oh **** I can't believe we hired this guy." If a known guy is available, it's probably because he's got some warts. The same is generally true of coaches, but people generally have a lot more knowledge of coaches and asssistants than other teams' front office structures.

That is to say, whoever is hired will more than likely inspire one of the above two reactions. And as much as I would have kept Masai for image and stability (or the image of stability, even), matching his recent performance would not be particularly difficult, and it would be well within the range of possibilities for any hire, even Dwane Casey.
User avatar
OAKLEY_2
RealGM
Posts: 20,189
And1: 9,181
Joined: Dec 19, 2008

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#375 » by OAKLEY_2 » Today 5:53 am

Fan freakout level - critical. Marketing Man choosing Basketball Man. Again. With help from an Agency. And stir. Masai inherited Casey and retained him. That was an oddity related to the MLSE Board. When Casey was dumped for Nurse Masai went out of his way to say how great a person Casey was. Masai kept Colangelo's team and coach. So if is Casey then we fired Masai who fired Casey only to go get Colangelo's coach back and promote him to President after 13 years. MLSE trusts itself so much it went the consultant route that got us Masai and here we are again. Raptors suits admit they don't know basketball like they claim to know hockey. Rogers is punting on third down. Or showing bunt.
basketballto
Sophomore
Posts: 201
And1: 140
Joined: Jan 06, 2023

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#376 » by basketballto » Today 6:18 am

YogurtProducer wrote:
Kreamy wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Has been in the Pistons front office for 3 years now.

Honeslty, it all depends what the role of a team president is. What made Masai qualified for it other than being a GM in the past?


What are Casey's qualifications or track record as a front office executive? Can he negotiate contracts and trades? What's his scouting philosophy? The fact he's even being considered shows how out of touch Pelley is. What a joke.

Does a President or a GM even primarily do those things? Odds are Bobby (the cap guru) would still be negotiating contracts, and he would be the one making trades (as he has been for years with Masai as the president).

I just honestly don’t know what a Presidents job description really would even be outside of general oversight of the entire operation. I doubt anyone here knows either.

My guess is you don’t even know most of the leagues presidents. They aren’t necessarily hands on in the day to day workings of a team or its team building.

But to be fair, the Pistons have been expecting more success since Casey moved to the FO than it was before.


A president oversees the entire team operations from vending machine contracts, staff contracts, office management, ticket sales, marketing. Basketball related things are dealing with the league, direction of the team, alignment of goals with departments. Sometimes it's scouting some key players your team identifies or dealing with a tough agent.

MLS says we have shared resources that handle most non basketball operations. We don't need a president for our other sports. We can do with a cheap president that can focus on basketball or not even have one. Masai already built a great front office and team it will continue to be great and that's a good reason to let him go or it will fall apart and that's on Masai and a good reason to let him go.

Masai has been bored and working on other projects like giants of Africa. It probably was his time.

As soon as I heard they brought in caa to find someone you knew they were going to get someone cheap with a name and bad track record. Bring in Casey fits the bill of cheap, experienced and bad track record plus he has history. At that point we spiral downward until Rogers is forced to sell the Raptors because of cable subscribers leaving.
User avatar
ForeverTFC
RealGM
Posts: 17,898
And1: 19,515
Joined: Dec 07, 2004
         

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#377 » by ForeverTFC » Today 6:29 am

CPT wrote:To me, the Casey thing would be more funny than obviously bad. It would have a chance of turning bad though, for sure.

This is why there were lots of people like me, who thought Masai deserved to be fired based on recent performance, but didn't actually want it to happen for a variety of reasons, one of which we're seeing on full display.

In one of those threads, I made the point that front office hirings rarely look good when they happen. It's either "who is this guy?" or "oh **** I can't believe we hired this guy." If a known guy is available, it's probably because he's got some warts. The same is generally true of coaches, but people generally have a lot more knowledge of coaches and asssistants than other teams' front office structures.

That is to say, whoever is hired will more than likely inspire one of the above two reactions. And as much as I would have kept Masai for image and stability (or the image of stability, even), matching his recent performance would not be particularly difficult, and it would be well within the range of possibilities for any hire, even Dwane Casey.


That's a very narrow way of looking at things. The on-court performance may not have been good, but during that time we have drafted very well. Also, we still have all of our future picks (pretty rare in the NBA today). If you look more broadly, things could be WAY worse.
User avatar
CPT
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 14,303
And1: 2,773
Joined: Jan 21, 2002
Location: Osaka/Seoul/Toronto
         

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#378 » by CPT » Today 6:58 am

ForeverTFC wrote:
CPT wrote:To me, the Casey thing would be more funny than obviously bad. It would have a chance of turning bad though, for sure.

This is why there were lots of people like me, who thought Masai deserved to be fired based on recent performance, but didn't actually want it to happen for a variety of reasons, one of which we're seeing on full display.

In one of those threads, I made the point that front office hirings rarely look good when they happen. It's either "who is this guy?" or "oh **** I can't believe we hired this guy." If a known guy is available, it's probably because he's got some warts. The same is generally true of coaches, but people generally have a lot more knowledge of coaches and asssistants than other teams' front office structures.

That is to say, whoever is hired will more than likely inspire one of the above two reactions. And as much as I would have kept Masai for image and stability (or the image of stability, even), matching his recent performance would not be particularly difficult, and it would be well within the range of possibilities for any hire, even Dwane Casey.


That's a very narrow way of looking at things. The on-court performance may not have been good, but during that time we have drafted very well. Also, we still have all of our future picks (pretty rare in the NBA today). If you look more broadly, things could be WAY worse.


Things could be way worse, sure. But I don't take much solace in the idea that we're not one of the 5-10 bumbling laughing stock teams; I want to be one of the 5-10 respected organizations that seems to be doing everything right. I say this in full recognition of the fact that Masai at one point brought us from the former group to the latter. Recent performance has certainly pushed us out of that top group and closer to that bottom group, if not right back in it.

And while it may not be the right place for this discussion, the idea that we've drafted very well recently is certainly up for debate. For his whole tenure it's obviously a strength, but how long should he get credit for some good picks 8-10 years ago? In the last 5 years, the Scottie pick is doing a lot of heavy lifting based on early returns (ROY, 1st All-Star, outperforming the "consensus" #4 in Suggs), while it's now looking more like he got the 3rd-6th best player with the 4th pick; good, but not blowing away expectations. Among the other recent picks (Koloko, Dick, JKW, Mogbo, Shead), it's more of a mixed bag, but we'd need to see someone really pop to convince me that we did "very well" in that time. Obviously too early to say anything about CMB and Martin, and even then I don't know how much credit should be given to Masai if he was already on the way out.

Again, it comes down to what you would expect in terms of young talent from a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 3 years. Maybe it's about what you would expect, but I don't think it's anything special. A replacement-level exec could probably replicate it. We just have to hope MLSE doesn't hire someone who would actively make things worse. To be fair, a lot of the worst basketball situations I can think of are more due to ownership than management, and to give MLSE a bit of credit, I don't know if we've seen anything to indicate they will **** things up to that extent. Worst case, we're probably looking at a bunch of "win now" or "at least try not to lose too much now" moves, which is basically how the team has been run the last few years by Masai anyway.
ATLTimekeeper
RealGM
Posts: 42,166
And1: 23,505
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#379 » by ATLTimekeeper » Today 10:50 am

YogurtProducer wrote:Honeslty don’t hate a Casey hire. Wasn’t a great Xs and Os coach but our best player development era did take place under his watch.

He also seems like the kind of guy who wouldn’t get overly involved in areas he doesn’t know (scouting?).

I wouldn’t really mind that hire, and I wasn’t a fan of his when he was our coach. But he could set a good culture which is likely more than you could ask for from a president.


I think he was more just there when the player development kicked off. I remember he wouldn't let Bruno or Bebe practice with the team. He had a rule where JV couldn't get the ball unless he posted up to a certain spot. He was the 'role card' guy. Everyone did a couple of things and got out of the way of Kyle and DeMar. Nurse was the one who was tasked with working with the 'bench mob,' which was when our development really took hold.

Casey absolutely would be the wrong guy for so many reasons, but I'm guessing vocal leadership is high on MLSE's criteria.
ATLTimekeeper
RealGM
Posts: 42,166
And1: 23,505
Joined: Apr 28, 2008

Re: Grange: Bobby wants President’s Job // update pg. 15 

Post#380 » by ATLTimekeeper » Today 10:57 am

djsunyc wrote:if i remember right, casey does have allies on the board because he went over masai at one point to try and save his job.

whomever they hire will be on the side of ownership so i fail to see bobby sticking around after the season. maybe dan gets a promotion after that? whatever the case, interesting times.

just win baby!


He was close with George Cope of Bell, who is long gone. And Larry.

Return to Toronto Raptors