Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors?

[S.W.A.N]

It is fair.

Us being a good team is completely theoretical at this point. I have high hopes, but until they prove it all skepticism is very valid.

[WiggOuts]

The one thing I've never heard, which almost seems very odd, is why haven't we locked Jak in the gym every off-season and forced him to work on his 3. Hes a smart player, I guarantee if he works hard enough for a few years hell become respectable. Weve invested in him so much, why isn't this already being done, id bet he's willing

[Pointgod]

Thoughts?

Does Lowe make some good points on being pessimistic for this season?

What are some of the most convincing reasons for optimism?

Everything Zach Lowe has said is valid and the same reservations that were voiced by posters on this board about trying to build from the middle.

The case for optimism is that this team could probably be a better defensive team than anticipated. (We’ll need to be because the offence will be ugly). Yes we have 3 poor defenders in the starting lineup but a big part of defence is the scheme and effort.

The other case for optimism is that the East is just plain bad. We might do better then expected because of attrition from other teams.

[djsunyc]

Around. 500 in that 6-10th seed range is basically the expectation though no? 45 wins would be considered a really good season. 40-43 most likely. We hopefully build from there.

Id take a top 12-14 defense. I'd take an offense that isn't bottom 5 at least. We move from there.

What more are people expecting?



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vegas over/under is 37.5

[djsunyc]

The one thing I've never heard, which almost seems very odd, is why haven't we locked Jak in the gym every off-season and forced him to work on his 3. Hes a smart player, I guarantee if he works hard enough for a few years hell become respectable. Weve invested in him so much, why isn't this already being done, id bet he's willing

you can work on somethng non stop for years and still not get better at it - or at least good enough to actually make a difference.

hard work is still limited by actual talent. some guys just can't do it otherwise everyone would be able to shoot - and i'm sure they've all worked hard trying to get better.

[kalel123]

There's cetainly a lot of homerism here.

While I think we are likely play-in bound with some room to improve, I think Zach Lowe is certainly fair in his assessment. It scares the living **** out of me that so much of our season centrally depend on a guy who's been one of the most injury prone in the league. He's not going to magically get healthier all of a sudden just cause he moves teams when our team had its share of injuries. All we can do is pray we get lucky with health. And even when healthy, the fit is questionable and something that remains to be seen. For example, it doesn't bode well when we use a pick we shamelessly tanked for (which still failed due to Barnes' insistence to play 65 games) to draft a guy who occupies similar space as our best guy and largely renders Mogbo obsolete. Still don't know why we drafted the guy when there was a guy in Filipkowski who was a better players/prospect/fit available. Barrett's another guy with questionable fit with addition of Ingram and our general lack of shooting is no secret. Then the defense so many people tout was one of the best late in the season is largely a mirage IMO when you account for the fact large chunk of competition late in the season were teams that were tanking even harder/better than we were and our lineups featured guys that wouldn't see the floor as much if all goes right health-wise.

So all in all, there are plenty of reasons to be pessimistic especially if you are outside looking in.

[WiggOuts]

The one thing I've never heard, which almost seems very odd, is why haven't we locked Jak in the gym every off-season and forced him to work on his 3. Hes a smart player, I guarantee if he works hard enough for a few years hell become respectable. Weve invested in him so much, why isn't this already being done, id bet he's willing

you can work on somethng non stop for years and still not get better at it - or at least good enough to actually make a difference.

hard work is still limited by actual talent. some guys just can't do it otherwise everyone would be able to shoot - and i'm sure they've all worked hard trying to get better.

And I respect that but I've just never heard a single thing about it, it would be good to know that they at least explored that option. You've heard of lots of less talented players over the years working on that "summer 3", and even shooting them in developmental seasons. He can't much worse than Scottie/CMB/Mogbo

I wouldn't be surprised if Jak is one of those guys who's just not capable, he's a poor ft shooter so he fits the bill. I hope they're not afraid to rattle his confidence or something

[Los_29]

The one thing I've never heard, which almost seems very odd, is why haven't we locked Jak in the gym every off-season and forced him to work on his 3. Hes a smart player, I guarantee if he works hard enough for a few years hell become respectable. Weve invested in him so much, why isn't this already being done, id bet he's willing

you can work on somethng non stop for years and still not get better at it - or at least good enough to actually make a difference.

hard work is still limited by actual talent. some guys just can't do it otherwise everyone would be able to shoot - and i'm sure they've all worked hard trying to get better.

And I respect that but I've just never heard a single thing about it, it would be good to know that they at least explored that option. You've heard of lots of less talented players over the years working on that "summer 3", and even shooting them in developmental seasons. He can't much worse than Scottie/CMB/Mogbo

I wouldn't be surprised if Jak is one of those guys who's just not capable, he's a poor ft shooter so he fits the bill. I hope they're not afraid to rattle his confidence or something

Poeltl has never shot threes in games and is a horrible FT shooter. He’s been in the league a long time now with two great franchises and both didn’t want him taking threes. That tells me he’s just not good enough. There are plenty of Centers in the league that don’t shoot threes. It’s not an issue. Poeltl would be less effective if they parked him behind the three point line.

[JB7]

There's cetainly a lot of homerism here.

While I think we are likely play-in bound with some room to improve, I think Zach Lowe is certainly fair in his assessment. It scares the living **** out of me that so much of our season centrally depend on a guy who's been one of the most injury prone in the league. He's not going to magically get healthier all of a sudden just cause he moves teams when our team had its share of injuries. All we can do is pray we get lucky with health. And even when healthy, the fit is questionable and something that remains to be seen. For example, it doesn't bode well when we use a pick we shamelessly tanked for (which still failed due to Barnes' insistence to play 65 games) to draft a guy who occupies similar space as our best guy and largely renders Mogbo obsolete. Still don't know why we drafted the guy when there was a guy in Filipkowski who was a better players/prospect/fit available. Barrett's another guy with questionable fit with addition of Ingram and our general lack of shooting is no secret. Then the defense so many people tout was one of the best late in the season is largely a mirage IMO when you account for the fact large chunk of competition late in the season were teams that were tanking even harder/better than we were and our lineups featured guys that wouldn't see the floor as much if all goes right health-wise.

So all in all, there are plenty of reasons to be pessimistic especially if you are outside looking in.

When the Raps traded OG & Pascal, they lost 2 players with similar size and ability to guard multiple positions like Barnes. I think the picks of Mogbo and CMB, are the FO just trying to reestablish that size and versatility on D.

The problem with Filipkowski or Maluach, is like most C's they are limited in their use. Unless they are a dominant player like Jokic or Embiid, it is hard to keep them on the floor in the modern NBA. A decent C is still needed at certain moments in the game, and especially if facing one of the better C's in the game, but otherwise, they just are not as of much use. I'm sure the team would be more comfortable with a combo of Barnes and CMB/Mogbo on the floor than either of Filipkowski or Maluach.

So, why waste a draft pick on a straight C, when they already had a competent one in Poeltl. And they couldn't replace Poeltl with a rookie, as the rookie could never fill those shoes.

RJ's fit, while not perfect, still addresses a major weakness for the team. Nobody can get to the basket, and apply rim pressure and draw fouls like RJ.

Ingram's fit is his jump shooting. Until Gradey or Walter can be trusted to fill that role, BI will help in the short term.

[Harry Palmer]

I don’t see the plan, I think we’re pretty locked in to a low ceiling mehburger. I really don’t see any design unfolding, we feel like a placeholder that teams that might matter will play against. I don’t see anything we’ll be particularly good at, nor do I see us competing for lottery balls. As for things like ‘team spirit’, underrated, or w/e, find me a team whose fans don’t think that about their team when their team is neither very good or very bad. Feels very..say it with me…treadmill.

Otoh I would probably have been even more pessimistic about the Jays, so…

[ATLTimekeeper]

They are likely going to aim to be a team that grinds out wins and gets into the top 10 in defense. Before people start to cry about how hard it is to make top 10 in defense, Detroit went from like 25th to 10th last year. They had some brutal defenders on that rotation, too. The Raptors have a better foothold to become a top 10 defense. Offense is gonna be gross.

As for the consistent (treadmill?) attitude that the Raptors won't be a threatening playoff team? You are allowed to walk before you run. The Raptors didn't sell out for this season. That's why most of the whining has been about how expensive the team is. It's a meaningless amount over the cap. Nothing is out of whack. People have nothing to complain about but hate seeing the Raptors on the way up without having salted the earth in a tank for half a decade, so they have to pick on how IQ makes 7 million more dollars than he should.

[tsherkin]

Offense is gonna be gross.

Is it?

We're basically adding 37 ppg at league average efficiency if IQ and BI are healthy-ish. That alone should make a palpable difference in our offense. Then there's the ripple effect of BI's threat and the spacing from both of them. Plus anything at all we get from the kids.

I think we're probably set to be a decent offense. Probably not much separation from league average, but "gross" seems a little aggressive to me unless we have injury issues.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

Who do we see driving and creating space for BI and IQ to shoot?

And if it’s RJ - I agree that it’s ridiculous to think we’re a team with a defensive identity when 3/5ths of the SL are non + defenders.

We hope Scottie gives up some of the offensive - but we’ve completely given him card Blanche and it’s going to be hard to stop catering to him.

How many guys can a team realistically play? At some point depth becomes redundant if you can’t get it on the floor.


Which of NYK, CLe, Orlando, Det, Boston, Mil, Atlanta would you put us ahead of? For me - none of them. So it would seem we would be a team on the come up - but we’re actually on the tear down. We have to shed salary before the end of the year to get out of the tax.

We totally bought into to the Raptor rush to defend any decisions by pointing to percentage of rising cap - while we completely ignored the impact of second apron and how many teams will have to shed money to maintain flexibility. I think every big contract guy we have had their value completely tanked by overpayment - which is a double hit. There’s a chance overtime to dig out - but it’s not likely to be super fun. Chances are we burn a few more years realizing we hired a poor coach, mis managemed Scottie and are forced to find a way to rebuild again.

[CPT]

This is going to come off as more haterish than intended, but...

Did (literally anyone) identify some convincing points for being high on Raptors?

[tsherkin]

This is going to come off as more haterish than intended, but...

Did (literally anyone) identify some convincing points for being high on Raptors?

What is "high" with this team?

We're coming off a 30-win tank squad. We were 25th on O and 17th on D. He was projecting us as 24th and 12-15th, which obviously doesn't make a lot of sense compared to what we did while tanking with what we have incoming and all that.

The projection of us as a peri-.500 team doesn't seem far off-base with conservative estimates we've seen from this forum, so that part seems reasonable. If BI is any kind of really healthy and certainly he looks like he did in like 2021, then we have a pretty good shot at mid/high 40s in terms of wins. Does that count as "high?"

[Shakril]

This is going to come off as more haterish than intended, but...

Did (literally anyone) identify some convincing points for being high on Raptors?

Last season:

- Lost many close games against good competition with injuries and own stupidity
- 2nd Half of the season team grew more together (see summer league how close they were)
- despite tanking, we still had 30 wins
- competition in the east is at an all time low, while we have the first season where we actually try to win
- BI hasnt even played yet, hopefully he can play 60 games.
- most of those guys arent even in their prime

[CPT]

This is going to come off as more haterish than intended, but...

Did (literally anyone) identify some convincing points for being high on Raptors?

What is "high" with this team?

We're coming off a 30-win tank squad. We were 25th on O and 17th on D. He was projecting us as 24th and 12-15th, which obviously doesn't make a lot of sense compared to what we did while tanking with what we have incoming and all that.

The projection of us as a peri-.500 team doesn't seem far off-base with conservative estimates we've seen from this forum, so that part seems reasonable. If BI is any kind of really healthy and certainly he looks like he did in like 2021, then we have a pretty good shot at mid/high 40s in terms of wins. Does that count as "high?"

I'd consider a prediction of 45+ wins to be "high." Maybe even 42?

I'm mostly just kind of poking fun at the idea that anyone would need a lot of "convincing points" in order to be low on this team.

[tsherkin]

I'd consider a prediction of 45+ wins to be "high." Maybe even 42?

45 is probably on the optimistic end, relying heavily on certain development and health issues working out in the best case, I agree.

42 doesn't seem too high. We project as around average on either end of the floor, so something close to .500 seems quite on point IMHO.

I'm mostly just kind of poking fun at the idea that anyone would need a lot of "convincing points" in order to be low on this team.

It all depends on expectations, I guess.

[Pointgod]

This is going to come off as more haterish than intended, but...

Did (literally anyone) identify some convincing points for being high on Raptors?

Scottie Barnes
Better Health
Young guys taking a leap
Adding Ingram (if he stays healthy)

The problem is that teams below us and ahead of us can all make a version of these types of arguments. I think honestly the two biggest reasons for optimism is that Indiana and Boston both suffered major hits to their core team, otherwise if these guys were healthy we’d be talking about lottery positioning again

[dTox]

Pelton gave our Offseason a C-

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45836861/nba-offseason-grades-2025-26-season-boston-celtics-oklahoma-city-thunder

Toronto Raptors
Grade: C-

A deadline deal for Brandon Ingram turned out to be Toronto's big offseason move. Given how little cap space was available, Ingram was wise to lock in a three-year, $120 million deal after the trade. Over the tax line, the Raptors merely swapped out unsigned Chris Boucher for Sandro Mamukelashvili and drafted Collin Murray-Boyles at No. 9. The result is a roster that still doesn't look like a top-six team in the East with limited financial flexibility, particularly after a rich extension for center Jakob Poeltl.