Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Twinkie defense]

He could go to another team now, if he would play for a lot less than his current demands.

That's a good point, I'm sure Kuminga on a small contract would be more attractive to teams in a sign and trade.

[vvoland]

NGL it sounds like the warriors are negotiating with a terrorist. We are offering the most money and probably the best role and JK is still demanding more. Let's be honest he doesn't want to be here and is willing to take less money and less opportunity to be somewhere else. Fine do what it takes to get what you want. If that is Keon Ellis then offer an unprotected 1st to get it done. Keon will not start for the kings and if they won't give up keon for JK + 1st, when they're promising a starting role, then that speaks volumes to what JK's real value is and we should be lowering our offer to the mle+ like cam thomas.

No RFA has signed, why do you take this negotiation so personally? If i, one of the other 2 JK fans, were calling the warriors kidnappers for how they did/are treating him, wouldn't that be rather hyperbolic? I get that you don't think he'll be blowing up buildings, I'm just saying he, and every other RFA, is exercising their only leverage - time. 2/40 may be fair but, on this team, with this coach, I can see why they're waiting to find other offers that would satisfy both JK and the team.

An unprotected first and jk for Ellis is way to rich for my blood. Is keon really a full frp better than podz, Melton, moody, AND buddy?

Initially, I thought this was done when the dnp-cds lasted more than a few games. The way jk responded in the Minny series makes me think he'll come in, play hard, and won't be an issue in the locker room. Sure, he had a lot to play for then but, if he wants out as much as you suspect he does, playing hard/well almost guarantees he'll get traded by Feb. Unless, of course, he's so good Kerr actually gives him a role almost immediately, like he did with podz.

He hasn't gone to the media, said anything negative against the team, demanded a trade, etc. They're trying to pay him a bit more than moody but for even fewer years. I'm sure he understands what that could mean for his role/minutes.

One of the podcasters that used to be in a FO (marks or hollinger, I forget) explained the money Dame got like this: the agent will look at what the team CAN offer, in Portland's case, the full mle, and ask for that in negotiations. All of that. In JKs case, thats a contract starting at 23ish, right? I'm order to give big Al the TPMLE, I mean. Meaning, if it's two years, the dubs can offer 23/26 or 2/49. I'm willing to bet that would get it done.

Going into rfa is a bad sign already. Free agency isn’t where you get the most money. You get the most money by signing with the team and then asking for a trade. The fact that this is going into restricted free agency means that parties are delusional.

The warriors are absolutely holding jk hostage. Ownership absolutely overvalues jk which is why we are still offering the most money and the best opportunity even though the market is saying he’s worth less than what we are offering. The issue is that jk hasn’t found a better option monetarily or opportunity even though he doesn’t want to be here which is why we are in this stalemate.

Would you trade jk and a 1st for Derrick white? If melton didn’t have an injury history he’d be worth close to 25-30m a year like white.

If the negotiations were really only 3m apart jk would be signed. We very obviously can offer 23m starting and if jk was willing to take that the deal would be done.

I agree that letting it get to RFA was a mistake but, based on what slater said, it looks like that was gsw's choice.

I probably would trade JK + an frp for white but that's an impossibility so why ask?

I really don't think that small of a difference is so easily bridged. The FO seems to have a thing about winning the negotiation. They made dray and Iggy go get offers from other teams and, according to dray, didn't even match, much less exceed, what he was offered from mem(?). I think Iggy said something similar re: sac, iirc. Didn't Iggy or dray say that lacob was trying to get klay on a discount in '19 since he was injured and they thought about low-balling Steph on the most recent extension?

That 2/40 offer certainly makes sense from the team side, might even open up the NTMLE next summer but, if you're his agent, do you really need to run to sign it? Is it going away by sep 1 or even oct 1?

[Twinkie defense]

The Warriors also haven’t chosen a direction

I think the Warriors have been pretty clear - Kuminga doesn't fit a team centered around Curry, Butler, and Draymond. But they understand that Kuminga is an asset under their control and they want to get value for that asset. They put that value at a (late) first round pick, a young player, and some matching salary that isn't a bad contract that goes on for multiple years. And they're willing to either trade him now, or before the trade deadline, when the base year compensation issue doesn't hamstring trade offers.

[Twinkie defense]

Ownership absolutely overvalues jk which is why we are still offering the most money

$20 mil a year over two years is a very tradeable contract. And you need a salary slot like that for future maneuverability. You could theoretically trade a bunch of firsts for Giannis, but you need some matching salary too, you aren't going to be able to cobble together five players to make up the salary.

[Twinkie defense]

The Athletic recently polled 16 people who work in rival front offices, asking them what they believe would constitute a “fair” contract for Kuminga, given today’s circumstances. They were granted anonymity in exchange for their candor. Answers ranged from $17 million to $25 million in average annual value. The mean average annual value in the poll was $20.4 million.

One executive suggested a two-year contract. Ten mentioned three-year contracts. Four people said four years. And one fan of Kuminga’s game suggested the largest deal (both in years and average annual value): $125 million over five years.

[EvanZ]

That 2/40 offer certainly makes sense from the team side, might even open up the NTMLE next summer but, if you're his agent, do you really need to run to sign it? Is it going away by sep 1 or even oct 1?

If Kuminga's team knows there isn't any offer coming then he's just screwing GS and that isn't going to sit well with any of the old heads. He risks really being frozen out for 2 years. I mean even more than he already has been.

And honestly there is some risk here from GS side even offering him $20M because there's some real chance that becomes a negative contract very quick and the Warriors have to attach a pick just to dump it. I mean that's why they're probably only making it 2 years and not 2+1.

[Onus]

No RFA has signed, why do you take this negotiation so personally? If i, one of the other 2 JK fans, were calling the warriors kidnappers for how they did/are treating him, wouldn't that be rather hyperbolic? I get that you don't think he'll be blowing up buildings, I'm just saying he, and every other RFA, is exercising their only leverage - time. 2/40 may be fair but, on this team, with this coach, I can see why they're waiting to find other offers that would satisfy both JK and the team.

An unprotected first and jk for Ellis is way to rich for my blood. Is keon really a full frp better than podz, Melton, moody, AND buddy?

Initially, I thought this was done when the dnp-cds lasted more than a few games. The way jk responded in the Minny series makes me think he'll come in, play hard, and won't be an issue in the locker room. Sure, he had a lot to play for then but, if he wants out as much as you suspect he does, playing hard/well almost guarantees he'll get traded by Feb. Unless, of course, he's so good Kerr actually gives him a role almost immediately, like he did with podz.

He hasn't gone to the media, said anything negative against the team, demanded a trade, etc. They're trying to pay him a bit more than moody but for even fewer years. I'm sure he understands what that could mean for his role/minutes.

One of the podcasters that used to be in a FO (marks or hollinger, I forget) explained the money Dame got like this: the agent will look at what the team CAN offer, in Portland's case, the full mle, and ask for that in negotiations. All of that. In JKs case, thats a contract starting at 23ish, right? I'm order to give big Al the TPMLE, I mean. Meaning, if it's two years, the dubs can offer 23/26 or 2/49. I'm willing to bet that would get it done.

Going into rfa is a bad sign already. Free agency isn’t where you get the most money. You get the most money by signing with the team and then asking for a trade. The fact that this is going into restricted free agency means that parties are delusional.

The warriors are absolutely holding jk hostage. Ownership absolutely overvalues jk which is why we are still offering the most money and the best opportunity even though the market is saying he’s worth less than what we are offering. The issue is that jk hasn’t found a better option monetarily or opportunity even though he doesn’t want to be here which is why we are in this stalemate.

Would you trade jk and a 1st for Derrick white? If melton didn’t have an injury history he’d be worth close to 25-30m a year like white.

If the negotiations were really only 3m apart jk would be signed. We very obviously can offer 23m starting and if jk was willing to take that the deal would be done.

I agree that letting it get to RFA was a mistake but, based on what slater said, it looks like that was gsw's choice.

I probably would trade JK + an frp for white but that's an impossibility so why ask?

I really don't think that small of a difference is so easily bridged. The FO seems to have a thing about winning the negotiation. They made dray and Iggy go get offers from other teams and, according to dray, didn't even match, much less exceed, what he was offered from mem(?). I think Iggy said something similar re: sac, iirc. Didn't Iggy or dray say that lacob was trying to get klay on a discount in '19 since he was injured and they thought about low-balling Steph on the most recent extension?

That 2/40 offer certainly makes sense from the team side, might even open up the NTMLE next summer but, if you're his agent, do you really need to run to sign it? Is it going away by sep 1 or even oct 1?

It’s only gsw choice if the ask is above what they’re willing. Like if jks ask was 15m gsw would’ve signed him. So it’s a 2 way street to go to rfa.

Because Ellis is essentially a lower tier white. So getting a white type player for jk should be something you’re into.

Dray and iggy were done by Myers and Myers conceded to their demands. 3M is not a bridge too far to come together when it really has no repercussion for the warriors to go up 3M.

Knowing that the warriors have the highest monetary value yes it would be in jk’s best interest to sign that deal. The warriors could always lower the offer to match what the other offers are, hell they could lower than what the other offers are and jk wouldn’t be able to negotiate for more since in order for another team to even make an offer at this point they would need to make moves to exceed their current offer which wouldn’t even guarantee that jk would be coming. Like for jk to sign with the kings he would have to accept the mle, or to sign with phx it would be even less. If those teams would want to up their offer they would have to trade off assets to even make a greater offer than the mle and then we could still match it and then they would be assed out of that asset. So yea it’s actually in jk’s best interest to take the best monetary offer that is available to him now before we lower our offer. But our front office wants to keep things amicable since they still do want jk back which is why they aren’t forcing the issue.

[Onus]

The Warriors also haven’t chosen a direction

I think the Warriors have been pretty clear - Kuminga doesn't fit a team centered around Curry, Butler, and Draymond. But they understand that Kuminga is an asset under their control and they want to get value for that asset. They put that value at a (late) first round pick, a young player, and some matching salary that isn't a bad contract that goes on for multiple years. And they're willing to either trade him now, or before the trade deadline, when the base year compensation issue doesn't hamstring trade offers.

I guess when I say the warriors haven’t made a decision they aren’t forcing a decision on jk. They still want a working relationship to see if things can work. They don’t want to close that door. They can very easily say if you don’t take our current offer by a certain date we will rescind our offer and just match your current offers which lowers their current offer which is why things are still amicable.

[Onus]

Ownership absolutely overvalues jk which is why we are still offering the most money

$20 mil a year over two years is a very tradeable contract. And you need a salary slot like that for future maneuverability. You could theoretically trade a bunch of firsts for Giannis, but you need some matching salary too, you aren't going to be able to cobble together five players to make up the salary.

If we’re trading for Giannis the most likely salary is butler. How much will Giannis overlap what Jimmy brings? Jimmy isn’t spacing the floor for Giannis to attack downhill. Jimmy doesn’t really offer a complement to what Giannis brings defensively. Like at least dray offers elite rim protection and an anchor while Giannis and Jimmy overlap what they do defensively as well.

[Onus]

The Athletic recently polled 16 people who work in rival front offices, asking them what they believe would constitute a “fair” contract for Kuminga, given today’s circumstances. They were granted anonymity in exchange for their candor. Answers ranged from $17 million to $25 million in average annual value. The mean average annual value in the poll was $20.4 million.

One executive suggested a two-year contract. Ten mentioned three-year contracts. Four people said four years. And one fan of Kuminga’s game suggested the largest deal (both in years and average annual value): $125 million over five years.

You have to take this type of poll with a grain of salt. The front office that says they’re willing to offer 5/125 isn’t actually offering that. Otherwise they would have the biggest offer to jk and we’d be negotiating against that.

I’d assume that jk’s agent is trying to negotiate based on that 25/year but that offer is obviously not on the table. So it’s moot what this poll has to stay.

[Onus]

That 2/40 offer certainly makes sense from the team side, might even open up the NTMLE next summer but, if you're his agent, do you really need to run to sign it? Is it going away by sep 1 or even oct 1?

If Kuminga's team knows there isn't any offer coming then he's just screwing GS and that isn't going to sit well with any of the old heads. He risks really being frozen out for 2 years. I mean even more than he already has been.

And honestly there is some risk here from GS side even offering him $20M because there's some real chance that becomes a negative contract very quick and the Warriors have to attach a pick just to dump it. I mean that's why they're probably only making it 2 years and not 2+1.

Yea I do think the warriors not offering a 2+1 speaks volumes on what jks actual value is. They know now that jk isn’t valued as a rfa. Would he really be more valued as an expiring contract next year? His value can absolutely tank. We see that 1 dimensional scorers are being devalued in the current climate that teams are willing to buy them out.

[statsman]

The Athletic recently polled 16 people who work in rival front offices, asking them what they believe would constitute a “fair” contract for Kuminga, given today’s circumstances. They were granted anonymity in exchange for their candor. Answers ranged from $17 million to $25 million in average annual value. The mean average annual value in the poll was $20.4 million.

One executive suggested a two-year contract. Ten mentioned three-year contracts. Four people said four years. And one fan of Kuminga’s game suggested the largest deal (both in years and average annual value): $125 million over five years.

You have to take this type of poll with a grain of salt. The front office that says they’re willing to offer 5/125 isn’t actually offering that. Otherwise they would have the biggest offer to jk and we’d be negotiating against that.

I’d assume that jk’s agent is trying to negotiate based on that 25/year but that offer is obviously not on the table. So it’s moot what this poll has to stay.

Just as a reminder, no team other than the Warriors can offer Kuminga a 5-year contract. In a S&T, that's also limited to 4-year contracts.

[Onus]

You have to take this type of poll with a grain of salt. The front office that says they’re willing to offer 5/125 isn’t actually offering that. Otherwise they would have the biggest offer to jk and we’d be negotiating against that.

I’d assume that jk’s agent is trying to negotiate based on that 25/year but that offer is obviously not on the table. So it’s moot what this poll has to stay.

Just as a reminder, no team other than the Warriors can offer Kuminga a 5-year contract. In a S&T, that's also limited to 4-year contracts.

Yea that’s what I mean the top end of this poll isn’t even a realistic number. It just seems like there’s a team that is trying to up the cost without even putting their money up. So the 20m avg is likely lower in the actual market. Which is what is being reported that our 2/40 offer is the highest that is being offered.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Aaron turner has a rough track record. Oladipo was his biggest client.

Pacers offered oladipo 4/112, he turned down.

Traded to the rockets.
They wanted to extend him at 2/45.2.
He turned it down.

Signed a minimum deal with Heat.

Changes agents.

[statsman]

Aaron turner has a rough track record. Oladipo was his biggest client.

Pacers offered oladipo 4/112, he turned down.

Traded to the rockets.
They wanted to extend him at 2/45.2.
He turned it down.

Signed a minimum deal with Heat.

Fires Aaron Turner.

That's brutal. And yet, a few players are still signing up with him. SMH.

[Onus]

Aaron turner has a rough track record. Oladipo was his biggest client.

Pacers offered oladipo 4/112, he turned down.

Traded to the rockets.
They wanted to extend him at 2/45.2.
He turned it down.

Signed a minimum deal with Heat.

Fires Aaron Turner.

That's brutal. And yet, a few players are still signing up with him. SMH.

It’s very obvious that Turner is a terrible agent and is selling hopes and dreams that he can’t back to his clients.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Aaron turner has a rough track record. Oladipo was his biggest client.

Pacers offered oladipo 4/112, he turned down.

Traded to the rockets.
They wanted to extend him at 2/45.2.
He turned it down.

Signed a minimum deal with Heat.

Fires Aaron Turner.

That's brutal. And yet, a few players are still signing up with him. SMH.

Outside of Kuminga, any one of us could negotiate the contracts of the players they represent.

Rozier is the face of that agency atm.

[ChuckDurn]

Putting together what’s been reported over the last couple of days…..

The Warriors are offering 2 years at <$20M / year.
The Kings are offering less that $20M - but Kuminga seems to be more interested in being there.

So he wants to go somewhere else, even willing to accept less money to be away from the Warriors.

But, of course, the Warriors can just match any offer that he signs which is less. So Kuminga just screws himself by signing somebody else’s offer sheet.

Not sure how I see this getting resolved. Of course the Warriors would match a lower offer sheet (than their own offer), meaning a team that wants to avoid the match really needs to make it worth the Warriors’ while. And it seems nobody will.

To me, him just taking the QO to ensure he’s here only one more year seems more likely than I’d want to think.

Talk about terrible representation from an agent, letting it get to this situation.

[Old_Blue]

Aaron turner has a rough track record. Oladipo was his biggest client.

Pacers offered oladipo 4/112, he turned down.

Traded to the rockets.
They wanted to extend him at 2/45.2.
He turned it down.

Signed a minimum deal with Heat.

Fires Aaron Turner.

That's brutal. And yet, a few players are still signing up with him. SMH.

Agreed. The agent's past conduct relating to other clients puts a whole new spin on what the Dubs have been dealing with.

[statsman]

Sounds like Kuminga wants the Warriors to agree to a S&T, but at how low of an amount is Kuminga willing to go? If a S&T offer from another team isn't going to help the Warriors, then what?

Kuminga signing the QO isn't going to help, and I would bet if this doesn't get resolved, he may just sign it on the last day allowed, October 1st. That would be a disaster of an offseason for everyone involved, but that may be the threat from Kuminga's camp.

No team is even coming close to pushing a few more chips on the table for Kuminga. He is going to be one bitter young man if he can't get a S&T offer signed.