Top 50 Peaks of all time

[ceoofkobefans]

since the peaks project has been postponed indefinitely just as we started to get to the fun parts, I figured I would just share my greatest peaks list so the discussion could just go from there

1. 2012 LeBron James
2. 1991 Michael Jordan

3. 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
4. 1977 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. 2003 Tim Duncan
6. 1964 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon

8. 2016 Steph Curry
9. 2008 Kobe Bryant
10. 2023 Nikola Jokic
11. 1984 Larry Bird
12. 1987 Magic Johnson
13. Kevin Garnett
14. 1962 Bill Russell

15. 2009 Dwyane Wade
16. 1995 David Robinson

17. 1977 Bill Walton
18. 2017 Kevin Durant
19. 2021 Giannis Antetokounmpo
20. 2015 Chris Paul
21. 2019(?) Kawhi Leonard
22. 1966 Jerry West
23. 1964 Oscar Robertson

24. 2025 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
25. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki
26. 1976 Julius Erving
27. 2007 Steve Nash
28. 2020 James Harden
29. 2017 Russell Westbrook
30. 2020 Anthony Davis
31. 1998 Karl Malone
32. 2003 Tracy McGrady

33. 2023 Joel Embiid
34. 1993 Charles Barkley
35. 2000 Grant Hill
36. 2024 Luka Doncic

37. 1994 Scottie Pippen
38. 2003 Jason Kidd
39. 1990 Patrick Ewing
40. 1975 Rick Barry
41. 1975 Bob McAdoo
42. 1969 Willis Reed
43. 1996 Penny Hardaway
44. 1983 Moses Malone
45. 2011 Dwight Howard
46. 1963 Elgin Baylor

47. 1985 Isiah Thomas
48. 2000 Alonzo Mourning
49. 2019 Paul George
50. 1988 Kevin McHale
HMs: 2001 Allen Iverson, 2023 Jimmy Butler, 1972 Walt Frazier, 1991 John Stockton, 1969 John Havlicek

Lemme know if i missed anyone and I hope this can lead to some much needed good discussion (and hopefully not just repeats of the same mj bron and kobe debates the forum always find a way to get into)

[TheGOATRises007]

What's the argument for Westbrook over Luka?

[ceoofkobefans]

What's the argument for Westbrook over Luka?

I don't think luka is much better offensively if at all and Russ is much better defensively

[TheGOATRises007]

What's the argument for Westbrook over Luka?

I don't think luka is much better offensively if at all and Russ is much better defensively

That's an interesting take

[migya]

I have always seen 1994 Olajuwon as a top 3 alltime single season and better than Shaq's 2000. He was an alltime carrier on both ends. 95 Robinson was something also and gets hit by his situation against Olajuwon in wcf but he was left very much alone and was ambushed on the other end. A little help and they probably win that series, beat Magic and are champions, vastly changing his perception.

[ceoofkobefans]

I have always seen 1994 Olajuwon as a top 3 alltime single season and better than Shaq's 2000. He was an alltime carrier on both ends. 95 Robinson was something also and gets hit by his situation against Olajuwon in wcf but he was left very much alone and was ambushed on the other end. A little help and they probably win that series, beat Magic and are champions, vastly changing his perception.

I wouldn't consider 94 Hakeem all time offensively or really anywhere close to it

I think Robinson had enough help to make the finals that year (doubt he actually does given his playoff woes), and the spurs losing the 95 WCF was more due to Robinson getting vastly outplayed by Hakeem than because he didn't have enough help or because Hakeem had more, although it would be interesting to see how robinson gets perceived if he won a ring as the main guy in 95

[One_and_Done]

I'm not sure what's worse, Westbrook over Luka or Kobe top 10. No, it's Kobe. In terms of peak he doesn't have even a plausible argument for top 20. His big selling point in all-time rankings is longevity, not peak.

[migya]

I have always seen 1994 Olajuwon as a top 3 alltime single season and better than Shaq's 2000. He was an alltime carrier on both ends. 95 Robinson was something also and gets hit by his situation against Olajuwon in wcf but he was left very much alone and was ambushed on the other end. A little help and they probably win that series, beat Magic and are champions, vastly changing his perception.

I wouldn't consider 94 Hakeem all time offensively or really anywhere close to it

I think Robinson had enough help to make the finals that year (doubt he actually does given his playoff woes), and the spurs losing the 95 WCF was more due to Robinson getting vastly outplayed by Hakeem than because he didn't have enough help or because Hakeem had more, although it would be interesting to see how robinson gets perceived if he won a ring as the main guy in 95

Robinson was regularly double teamed while Olajuwon was not which is a large reason why he outplayed Robinson. Olajuwon had better shooters around him and overall better defenders, he had the better team and yet both teams scored the exact amount of points for the series.

[migya]

I'm not sure what's worse, Westbrook over Luka or Kobe top 10. No, it's Kobe. In terms of peak he doesn't have even a plausible argument for top 20. His big selling point in all-time rankings is longevity, not peak.

Was never a Kobe fan but looking at it; he had awful teams after Shaq left until Gasol got there and even then those teams weren't that good. They made the playoffs in the very stacked West and took it to the Suns, almost beating them. Kobe had a great peak and prime, in the lowest scoring decade in modern era. Don't see how someone like Curry is better than him.

[ceoofkobefans]

I'm not sure what's worse, Westbrook over Luka or Kobe top 10. No, it's Kobe. In terms of peak he doesn't have even a plausible argument for top 20. His big selling point in all-time rankings is longevity, not peak.

another post i make including 50+ players and all you want to talk about is kobe lmao

[ceoofkobefans]

I have always seen 1994 Olajuwon as a top 3 alltime single season and better than Shaq's 2000. He was an alltime carrier on both ends. 95 Robinson was something also and gets hit by his situation against Olajuwon in wcf but he was left very much alone and was ambushed on the other end. A little help and they probably win that series, beat Magic and are champions, vastly changing his perception.

I wouldn't consider 94 Hakeem all time offensively or really anywhere close to it

I think Robinson had enough help to make the finals that year (doubt he actually does given his playoff woes), and the spurs losing the 95 WCF was more due to Robinson getting vastly outplayed by Hakeem than because he didn't have enough help or because Hakeem had more, although it would be interesting to see how robinson gets perceived if he won a ring as the main guy in 95

Robinson was regularly double teamed while Olajuwon was not which is a large reason why he outplayed Robinson. Olajuwon had better shooters around him and overall better defenders, he had the better team and yet both teams scored the exact amount of points for the series.

haven't tracked this series yet to see if this is true (it isnt to my memory but its been some years since i watched anything from this series so i'll take your word for it), David Robinson is supposed to be a sub goat tier defender which is the whole reason you're comfortable putting him on an island with hakeem. It is still a knock on robinson (who's defense is his biggest selling point) to allow hakeem to average 35 ppg on +6.7 rTS%.

[ceoofkobefans]

I'm not sure what's worse, Westbrook over Luka or Kobe top 10. No, it's Kobe. In terms of peak he doesn't have even a plausible argument for top 20. His big selling point in all-time rankings is longevity, not peak.

Was never a Kobe fan but looking at it; he had awful teams after Shaq left until Gasol got there and even then those teams weren't that good. They made the playoffs in the very stacked West and took it to the Suns, almost beating them. Kobe had a great peak and prime, in the lowest scoring decade in modern era. Don't see how someone like Curry is better than him.

there's not much of a point in discussing anything about kobe with O&D all he does is lie about and discredit kobe's game. he tried to argue the lakers would be just as good or marginally worse without kobe in 08 and 09 lmao

[migya]

I wouldn't consider 94 Hakeem all time offensively or really anywhere close to it

I think Robinson had enough help to make the finals that year (doubt he actually does given his playoff woes), and the spurs losing the 95 WCF was more due to Robinson getting vastly outplayed by Hakeem than because he didn't have enough help or because Hakeem had more, although it would be interesting to see how robinson gets perceived if he won a ring as the main guy in 95

Robinson was regularly double teamed while Olajuwon was not which is a large reason why he outplayed Robinson. Olajuwon had better shooters around him and overall better defenders, he had the better team and yet both teams scored the exact amount of points for the series.

haven't tracked this series yet to see if this is true (it isnt to my memory but its been some years since i watched anything from this series so i'll take your word for it), David Robinson is supposed to be a sub goat tier defender which is the whole reason you're comfortable putting him on an island with hakeem. It is still a knock on robinson (who's defense is his biggest selling point) to allow hakeem to average 35 ppg on +6.7 rTS%.

Most superstars will get theirs offensively. Olajuwon got him but the context is more than that. It wasn't fair on Robinson but most of his career wasn't.

[ceoofkobefans]

Robinson was regularly double teamed while Olajuwon was not which is a large reason why he outplayed Robinson. Olajuwon had better shooters around him and overall better defenders, he had the better team and yet both teams scored the exact amount of points for the series.

haven't tracked this series yet to see if this is true (it isnt to my memory but its been some years since i watched anything from this series so i'll take your word for it), David Robinson is supposed to be a sub goat tier defender which is the whole reason you're comfortable putting him on an island with hakeem. It is still a knock on robinson (who's defense is his biggest selling point) to allow hakeem to average 35 ppg on +6.7 rTS%.

Most superstars will get theirs offensively. Olajuwon got him but the context is more than that. It wasn't fair on Robinson but most of his career wasn't.

there's a difference between getting yours and having your best offensive series ever primarily against someone that is supposed to be a top 3-5 defender ever. Like Ewing held Hakeem to 26.9 ppg 3.6 apg 9.1 rpg and 3.6 tpg on +5.4 rTS% (I've only tracked the first two games of this series but hakeem had 19 points, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers on 8-20 shooting (43.1 TS%) in 45 possessions being primarily guarded by ewing in those games, and he had 53 points, 5 assists 7 turnovers on 20-43 shooting (52 TS%) total in those first two games), this is a very good performance and what you'd expect from an all time great defender

[jjgp111292]

I'm also in the church of 2012 LeBron - while I get why some like SideshowBob were a little bit lower on that season because he was still a physical shadow of Cleveland LeBron, I feel his postseason performance given all of the roster uncertainty, capped by a *incredible* finals performance against a great team once Miami finally got stable again puts the effort up there with anybody. 2013 was the true portent of "LeCoast" even if the performance aside from the playoffs was better in a vacuum (the 13 Heat were genuinely bad on defense before January, and I'm a stickler for full season effort. Aside from a March slump that was possibly a concussion, we got that from 2012 Bron.)

[Elpolo_14]

The funniest thing is CEO ask the discussion to Not be about MJ/Bron debate or Kobe hate. And the first thing One-Done do is to hate on Kobe when there 40+ player to talk about LMAO

[Elpolo_14]

since the peaks project has been postponed indefinitely just as we started to get to the fun parts, I figured I would just share my greatest peaks list so the discussion could just go from there

1. 2012 LeBron James
2. 1991 Michael Jordan

3. 2000 Shaquille O'Neal
4. 1977 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. 2003 Tim Duncan
6. 1964 Wilt Chamberlain
7. 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon

8. 2016 Steph Curry
9. 2008 Kobe Bryant
10. 2023 Nikola Jokic
11. 1984 Larry Bird
12. 1987 Magic Johnson
13. Kevin Garnett
14. 1962 Bill Russell

15. 2009 Dwyane Wade
16. 1995 David Robinson

17. 1977 Bill Walton
18. 2017 Kevin Durant
19. 2021 Giannis Antetokounmpo
20. 2015 Chris Paul
21. 2019(?) Kawhi Leonard
22. 1966 Jerry West
23. 1964 Oscar Robertson

24. 2025 Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
25. 2011 Dirk Nowitzki
26. 1976 Julius Erving
27. 2007 Steve Nash
28. 2020 James Harden
29. 2017 Russell Westbrook
30. 2020 Anthony Davis
31. 1998 Karl Malone
32. 2003 Tracy McGrady

33. 2023 Joel Embiid
34. 1993 Charles Barkley
35. 2000 Grant Hill
36. 2024 Luka Doncic

37. 1994 Scottie Pippen
38. 2003 Jason Kidd
39. 1990 Patrick Ewing
40. 1975 Rick Barry
41. 1975 Bob McAdoo
42. 1969 Willis Reed
43. 1996 Penny Hardaway
44. 1983 Moses Malone
45. 2011 Dwight Howard
46. 1963 Elgin Baylor

47. 1985 Isiah Thomas
48. 2000 Alonzo Mourning
49. 2019 Paul George
50. 1988 Kevin McHale
HMs: 2001 Allen Iverson, 2023 Jimmy Butler, 1972 Walt Frazier, 1991 John Stockton, 1969 John Havlicek

Lemme know if i missed anyone and I hope this can lead to some much needed good discussion (and hopefully not just repeats of the same mj bron and kobe debates the forum always find a way to get into)

I know we have numerous discussion about How Low I usual put Larry bird But what argument would you made for Him above Magic Johnson Kawhi and CP3

[f4p]

I wouldn't consider 94 Hakeem all time offensively or really anywhere close to it

I think Robinson had enough help to make the finals that year (doubt he actually does given his playoff woes), and the spurs losing the 95 WCF was more due to Robinson getting vastly outplayed by Hakeem than because he didn't have enough help or because Hakeem had more, although it would be interesting to see how robinson gets perceived if he won a ring as the main guy in 95

Robinson was regularly double teamed while Olajuwon was not which is a large reason why he outplayed Robinson. Olajuwon had better shooters around him and overall better defenders, he had the better team and yet both teams scored the exact amount of points for the series.

haven't tracked this series yet to see if this is true (it isnt to my memory but its been some years since i watched anything from this series so i'll take your word for it), David Robinson is supposed to be a sub goat tier defender which is the whole reason you're comfortable putting him on an island with hakeem. It is still a knock on robinson (who's defense is his biggest selling point) to allow hakeem to average 35 ppg on +6.7 rTS%.

especially since just one round before, the suns with no center held hakeem to 52.7 TS% and then shaq did a very good job and held hakeem to i think 51 TS%.

and the argument can't really be that hakeem had better surrounding offensive talent and better surrounding defensive talent but the teams were even because then that would imply robinson not only wasn't destroyed by hakeem, but actually outplayed hakeem. in a series that basically cemented the legend of hakeem. i mean to some degree, it might never have been a repeatable performance by hakeem. it features some of the most absurd shot making by any center (or player, really). i mean hakeem was hopping through double teams, stopping on a dime and fading back from 18, throwing shots over his head. but since those shots going in is indeed what happened, then it indicates hakeem playing at a crazy level and thoroughly outplaying robinson.

and for all the talk of hakeem not being double, he averaged 5.0 apg, the second most in his playoff career. only behind the very next series. those likely didn't come from passing out of single teams.

[tsherkin]

I'm not sure what's worse, Westbrook over Luka or Kobe top 10. No, it's Kobe. In terms of peak he doesn't have even a plausible argument for top 20. His big selling point in all-time rankings is longevity, not peak.

Was never a Kobe fan but looking at it; he had awful teams after Shaq left until Gasol got there and even then those teams weren't that good. They made the playoffs in the very stacked West and took it to the Suns, almost beating them. Kobe had a great peak and prime, in the lowest scoring decade in modern era. Don't see how someone like Curry is better than him.

Worth remembering, lots of guys had crap team situations during their craziest seasons, and many of them outperformed what we saw from Kobe in terms of impact. Most didn't reach his raw scoring volume, but exerted their impact through superior efficiency, playmaking, defense, etc. There's a pretty valid argument that Kobe doesn't have a top-20 peak, even if he was also still a crazy monster in those years. We're talking about most of a century's worth of players accruing crazy seasons from which to choose, don't forget. It doesn't speak ill of Kobe so much as highlight how spoiled we are for choice at this stage in NBA history.

[f4p]

I'm also in the church of 2012 LeBron - while I get why some like SideshowBob were a little bit lower on that season because he was still a physical shadow of Cleveland LeBron, I feel his postseason performance given all of the roster uncertainty, capped by a *incredible* finals performance against a great team once Miami finally got stable again puts the effort up there with anybody. 2013 was the true portent of "LeCoast" even if the performance aside from the playoffs was better in a vacuum (the 13 Heat were genuinely bad on defense before January, and I'm a stickler for full season effort. Aside from a March slump that was possibly a concussion, we got that from 2012 Bron.)

probably the most undertalked about thing with 2012 lebron is the indy series. that was actually a pretty good indy team and bosh was out i think after game 1. and indy went up 2-1. then lebron dropped a casual 40/18/9 in game 4 and averaged 33/11/8 on 55% FG over the last 3 games.

and then of course had the legendary 45/15/15 game 6 against boston to save the season under arguably the most pressure any nba player has faced before or since for one game. and basically did it in 3 quarters.