Pistons related Free Agency Thread

[Neptune]

Word is that the Nets offered Thomas a low ball two year 28mil deal with the last year being a 14mil team option. If thats the case, the Pistons might really be in the running to get him. We might have to add multiple 2nds with our TPE, but make it happen Langdon!

https://youtu.be/qUAAVjnMMEA?si=8qVCKGtTlOG2ISCH

[A_dub06]

Word is that the Nets offered Thomas a low ball two year 28mil deal with the last year being a 14mil team option. If thats the case, the Pistons might really be in the running to get him. We might have to add multiple 2nds with our TPE, but make it happen Langdon!

https://youtu.be/qUAAVjnMMEA?si=8qVCKGtTlOG2ISCH

Two seconds aren’t really going to do anything for the Nets though, and since they will have plenty of cap space making Thomas sign the QO and prove he’s worth still puts them in the drivers seat to re-sign him. We would need to give sweeter compensation to make that happen and not sure if more seconds are going to make it happen even tho would happily do it

[Kilo]

Forcing a player to ay for QO would piss the player off to no end and they would likely hold ill will against the team, so not so sure Nets would be in the driver's seat to re-sign him in such a case.

[bstein14]

Forcing a player to ay for QO would piss the player off to no end and they would likely hold ill will against the team, so not so sure Nets would be in the driver's seat to re-sign him in such a case.

Yes, we've had Greg Monroe in that position in the past, but he was a high draft pick so his QO was still a pretty night number. Duren QO is a bit less but Ivey will have a very high one being the 5th pick.

We also had KCP in a position where he was a RFA and SVG just let him go and went with someone else when KCP wanted $80 million instead of making another team go out and make him an offer we could possibly match. Overall we've botched it a few times it feels like. Greg Monroe actually did get a 3 year max deal from the Bucks.

[Canadafan]

Read on Twitter

?t=mbCVcMZqr5L2dlcZrKZvOQ&s=19

What if we bring him back later in the year after hes cleared of wrongdoing. Bird rights 7.2mil. Get Thomas with our TPE. And then before trade deadline we trade Ivey with Tobias or even better use Levert Thomas Robinson to get Markkanen

Duren Stew Reed
MARKKANEN Tobias
Ausar Holland
Ivey Beasley
Cade Sasser

[A_dub06]

Forcing a player to ay for QO would piss the player off to no end and they would likely hold ill will against the team, so not so sure Nets would be in the driver's seat to re-sign him in such a case.

They will still have the most cap space in the league though so regardless of him being pissed off or not, he’s going to sign for the most he possibly can which the Nets could always pay him a couple million on top of whatever offer comes in. How many teams realistically are going to be lining up to throw more money at Thomas than what the Nets would be able to offer?

Thomas is a player I believe has all the tools to be an effective player, he just needs to be in a better system on an actual team with more direction which we could easily provide. If he’s even remotely available in a S&T at the cost of a couple 2nds I’ll be upset if we don’t at least try

[SuperBad]

I agree if that’s what he got offered we should go after him, use a couple seconds or Sasser as sweetener. That’s elite depth at every position but the four, it gives tons of options to upgrade on the market with all the depth, to find a 4, or the 2nd fiddle could need.

[A_dub06]

Just read a Pistons powered article that was saying Langdon should be “checking in” constantly with his old organisation and touching base with Weaver to see if we can pry away Murphy since Weaver did draft most of the team and probably still has a love affection for them.

If we could get Thomas in a S&T, and then trade Ivey plus a pick for Murphy like it says in the article I would be ecstatic. Would take more than Ivey + pick but man that would give us a really solid lineup running Murphy at the 4. Get it done TL!

[Crymson]

Just read a Pistons powered article that was saying Langdon should be “checking in” constantly with his old organisation and touching base with Weaver to see if we can pry away Murphy since Weaver did draft most of the team and probably still has a love affection for them.

PistonPowered is a fan blog website. The mere fact that Langdon used to be an executive for the Pelicans -- and as part of a completely different front office -- is unlikely to give him any sort of advantage in terms of acquiring players whom he was involved in drafting (his level of involvement in draft decision making with the Pelicans is also unclear given that Griffin ran the show over there, but that's moot).

If we could get Thomas in a S&T

I hate to sound like a broken record, but absolutely nothing has linked Thomas to the Pistons and he has absolutely no reason to come here -- especially at an MLE-level salary.

and then trade Ivey plus a pick for Murphy like it says in the article I would be ecstatic. Would take more than Ivey + pick but man that would give us a really solid lineup running Murphy at the 4. Get it done TL!

I think Murphy is misconceived on a widespread level. Though he's made strides as a creator, he's still chiefly an off-ball player; if you're trading major assets for him, you'd best have a strong secondary creator locked down first. If that's not Ivey, then it's got to be someone else (Thomas would not qualify unless he makes massive progress as a playmaker and a system player -- but again, that's moot). It's also a little odd to see him pitched repeatedly as a potential power forward of the future while Holland is simultaneously pointed at as too small, given that Murphy is less than an inch taller and that Ron will probably outweigh him in the near future if he doesn't already.

The quality of Murphy's defense is also drastically overblown -- he's pitched as a strong two-way player, which he is not; his defense is average at best -- so though he's certainly a good player and is on a bargain contract, I think it's worth keeping in mind that he's much more just a strong starter rather than an elite anything at this point.

[tmorgan]

There may have been a very brief period two or three years ago when players such as Ron or Trey Murphy could be considered a viable PF, at least against most teams. The league was hitting the four out trend super hard, players were getting smaller on average, and mostly positionless basketball was the rage.

It was an overreaction to the success of small ball in Golden State and elsewhere. Since then, Denver won with a passing big and finisher at the four, Boston won with five out but real size at every position, and OKC won with insane defense, two centers that can play together, and a bunch of wing-sized guys.

The league is now trending back to larger size bigs and wings. No doubt this won’t go all the way back to double post threats on the floor together, as it’s still a shooters league, but thin 6’8” guys are gonna get abused as power forwards. Tobias has the bulk to handle himself down low when needed. We can’t play tiny for long stretches and expect good results — Ausar can handle himself for stretches there because of his outlier physical tools, but that’s about it. Murphy is a 3 and will play there almost exclusively going forward in New Orleans, even if Zion and Queen have issues.

[theBigLip]

July 29: The Pistons have officially announced their two-way deal with Jones, confirming the signing in a press release. Jones and Tolu Smith are now on two-way contracts with the Pistons, who still have a two-way qualifying offer on the table for Daniss Jenkins too.

[Snakebites]

There may have been a very brief period two or three years ago when players such as Ron or Trey Murphy could be considered a viable PF, at least against most teams. The league was hitting the four out trend super hard, players were getting smaller on average, and mostly positionless basketball was the rage.

It was an overreaction to the success of small ball in Golden State and elsewhere. Since then, Denver won with a passing big and finisher at the four, Boston won with five out but real size at every position, and OKC won with insane defense, two centers that can play together, and a bunch of wing-sized guys.

The league is now trending back to larger size bigs and wings. No doubt this won’t go all the way back to double post threats on the floor together, as it’s still a shooters league, but thin 6’8” guys are gonna get abused as power forwards. Tobias has the bulk to handle himself down low when needed. We can’t play tiny for long stretches and expect good results — Ausar can handle himself for stretches there because of his outlier physical tools, but that’s about it. Murphy is a 3 and will play there almost exclusively going forward in New Orleans, even if Zion and Queen have issues.

We're seeing the emergeance of more and more big men who are capable of fulfilling more traditionally perimeter roles- who are more capable of playing in the modern NBA.

We'll never go back to low post offense as the primary means of offensive production, at least not in a future that's clearly forseeable now.

[tmorgan]

There may have been a very brief period two or three years ago when players such as Ron or Trey Murphy could be considered a viable PF, at least against most teams. The league was hitting the four out trend super hard, players were getting smaller on average, and mostly positionless basketball was the rage.

It was an overreaction to the success of small ball in Golden State and elsewhere. Since then, Denver won with a passing big and finisher at the four, Boston won with five out but real size at every position, and OKC won with insane defense, two centers that can play together, and a bunch of wing-sized guys.

The league is now trending back to larger size bigs and wings. No doubt this won’t go all the way back to double post threats on the floor together, as it’s still a shooters league, but thin 6’8” guys are gonna get abused as power forwards. Tobias has the bulk to handle himself down low when needed. We can’t play tiny for long stretches and expect good results — Ausar can handle himself for stretches there because of his outlier physical tools, but that’s about it. Murphy is a 3 and will play there almost exclusively going forward in New Orleans, even if Zion and Queen have issues.

We're seeing the emergeance of more and more big men who are capable of fulfilling more traditionally perimeter roles- who are more capable of playing in the modern NBA.

We'll never go back to low post offense as the primary means of offensive production, at least not in a future that's clearly forseeable now.

My guess is— and all this is is a guess, I have no sources — the league started to go smaller and smaller, and some teams decided it was worth the loss of some shooting to try to dominate the boards. Ideally you want bigs that can defend, rebound and shoot outside, but there aren’t that many of those guys, at least not yet.

We’ve seen more traditional or kind-of-traditional bigs get drafted early again, and a lot of them are playing real minutes. 2022 it was Duren, Mark Williams, and Kessler. 2023 was just Lively. 2024, though, had Sarr, Eddy, Clingan and Missi, and 2025 has Maluach, Sorber, Hansen, and Beringer. That’s a lot of big bigs.

[A_dub06]

Just read a Pistons powered article that was saying Langdon should be “checking in” constantly with his old organisation and touching base with Weaver to see if we can pry away Murphy since Weaver did draft most of the team and probably still has a love affection for them.

PistonPowered is a fan blog website. The mere fact that Langdon used to be an executive for the Pelicans -- and as part of a completely different front office -- is unlikely to give him any sort of advantage in terms of acquiring players whom he was involved in drafting (his level of involvement in draft decision making with the Pelicans is also unclear given that Griffin ran the show over there, but that's moot).

If we could get Thomas in a S&T

I hate to sound like a broken record, but absolutely nothing has linked Thomas to the Pistons and he has absolutely no reason to come here -- especially at an MLE-level salary.

and then trade Ivey plus a pick for Murphy like it says in the article I would be ecstatic. Would take more than Ivey + pick but man that would give us a really solid lineup running Murphy at the 4. Get it done TL!

I think Murphy is misconceived on a widespread level. Though he's made strides as a creator, he's still chiefly an off-ball player; if you're trading major assets for him, you'd best have a strong secondary creator locked down first. If that's not Ivey, then it's got to be someone else (Thomas would not qualify unless he makes massive progress as a playmaker and a system player -- but again, that's moot). It's also a little odd to see him pitched repeatedly as a potential power forward of the future while Holland is simultaneously pointed at as too small, given that Murphy is less than an inch taller and that Ron will probably outweigh him in the near future if he doesn't already.

The quality of Murphy's defense is also drastically overblown -- he's pitched as a strong two-way player, which he is not; his defense is average at best -- so though he's certainly a good player and is on a bargain contract, I think it's worth keeping in mind that he's much more just a strong starter rather than an elite anything at this point.

I’ve been following the league and a Pistons fan long enough to know that the Pistons Powered website is nothing more than fluff. It’s that part of the off-season where most moves have been made, everyone is bored with the stale state and so every article basically from this point until the season starts will be a “fluff” piece out of desperation for attention. The same can be said of the post on X regarding Thomas. I’m well aware that there is no inside knowledge on these two players and that the moves very likely won’t materialise, I’m even on record on this thread saying it’s doubtful the nets let Thomas leave and will make him sign the QO.

It’s all purely theoretical but it’s also in the realm of totally possible. It’s a forum that’s largely based on discussing theoretical moves. RIP to Manocod, but it’s one of the things that used to frustrate me with the back and fourths with him, he would refuse to talk speculatively and not give opinions unless somethings happened. These are just 2 possible moves that I would like to see (although doubt they happen) whilst being totally possible and not reaching.

I agree we need more creators on the team but at least at this stage I think these moves would make us a much better team and would be overjoyed if we could pull them off. Both Thomas and Murphy have far more to their games imo and while Murphy would cost a lot more I think they are both player which could far exceed the value they would cost via trade. I think we could realistically trade for Murphy whereas other players at the 4 that could actually start for us are currently out of our price range given our current assets and also too expensive.

[A_dub06]

There may have been a very brief period two or three years ago when players such as Ron or Trey Murphy could be considered a viable PF, at least against most teams. The league was hitting the four out trend super hard, players were getting smaller on average, and mostly positionless basketball was the rage.

It was an overreaction to the success of small ball in Golden State and elsewhere. Since then, Denver won with a passing big and finisher at the four, Boston won with five out but real size at every position, and OKC won with insane defense, two centers that can play together, and a bunch of wing-sized guys.

The league is now trending back to larger size bigs and wings. No doubt this won’t go all the way back to double post threats on the floor together, as it’s still a shooters league, but thin 6’8” guys are gonna get abused as power forwards. Tobias has the bulk to handle himself down low when needed. We can’t play tiny for long stretches and expect good results — Ausar can handle himself for stretches there because of his outlier physical tools, but that’s about it. Murphy is a 3 and will play there almost exclusively going forward in New Orleans, even if Zion and Queen have issues.

Personally I think teams gearing up with bigger/taller players that can shoot from 3 is largely so these guys can bully teams when they out smaller players at power forward but my question to you is, who and how are we getting this power forward that has that size, can shoot well from 3 and defend? Guys like that don’t grow on trees and they generally demand a lot via trade. Murphy is just over 6’9” and has just over a 7 foot wingspan, that’s not small and he’s quite athletic

[tmorgan]

There may have been a very brief period two or three years ago when players such as Ron or Trey Murphy could be considered a viable PF, at least against most teams. The league was hitting the four out trend super hard, players were getting smaller on average, and mostly positionless basketball was the rage.

It was an overreaction to the success of small ball in Golden State and elsewhere. Since then, Denver won with a passing big and finisher at the four, Boston won with five out but real size at every position, and OKC won with insane defense, two centers that can play together, and a bunch of wing-sized guys.

The league is now trending back to larger size bigs and wings. No doubt this won’t go all the way back to double post threats on the floor together, as it’s still a shooters league, but thin 6’8” guys are gonna get abused as power forwards. Tobias has the bulk to handle himself down low when needed. We can’t play tiny for long stretches and expect good results — Ausar can handle himself for stretches there because of his outlier physical tools, but that’s about it. Murphy is a 3 and will play there almost exclusively going forward in New Orleans, even if Zion and Queen have issues.

Personally I think teams gearing up with bigger/taller players that can shoot from 3 is largely so these guys can bully teams when they out smaller players at power forward but my question to you is, who and how are we getting this power forward that has that size, can shoot well from 3 and defend? Guys like that don’t grow on trees and they generally demand a lot via trade. Murphy is just over 6’9” and has just over a 7 foot wingspan, that’s not small and he’s quite athletic

Murphy’s listed at 6’8”, 206, which precisely what Holland is listed at as well. You see what Ron looks like. Trey is athletic and fairly long, sure, but he’s still mostly a twig. According to BBRef, he played almost half his minutes last year at the 4 (Zion doing Zion things), played 35 mpg (same as Cade, heavy minutes), and averaged 5.1 rebounds. That’s terrible.

Murphy is a good young shooter with some other skills, but he’s not a legit four.

[whitehops]

We're seeing the emergeance of more and more big men who are capable of fulfilling more traditionally perimeter roles- who are more capable of playing in the modern NBA.

We'll never go back to low post offense as the primary means of offensive production, at least not in a future that's clearly forseeable now.

this isn't a league-wide trend towards posting up at all but it is cool to see tobias and especially cade use the post game as a tool in their tool bags. it was only for a few possessions a game but they were timely at the end of the shot clock or hunting mismatches.

considering duren and stewart averaged only 0.4 postups a game it's cool to see that the "player x is good at this skill *for their size*" mentality is going away and it's more about comparing how well they can do something league-wide.

[Crymson]

It’s all purely theoretical but it’s also in the realm of totally possible. It’s a forum that’s largely based on discussing theoretical moves. RIP to Manocod, but it’s one of the things that used to frustrate me with the back and fourths with him, he would refuse to talk speculatively and not give opinions unless somethings happened.

I'd say it's much more in the realm of extremely unlikely.

I understand what you're saying, but this isn't a speculative discussion. The difference between a speculative discussion and this particular discussion is that this one began solely on the basis of nonsense non-information yet is being contextualized as if the existence of that nonsense non-information puts certain highly improbable scenarios into the realm of the realistic.

If you meant it to be totally separate from all that, then I misunderstood -- but it didn't sound like that, especially given that Thomas was never discussed on here before Bovada dropped those nonsense odds.

I agree we need more creators on the team but at least at this stage I think these moves would make us a much better team and would be overjoyed if we could pull them off. Both Thomas and Murphy have far more to their games imo and while Murphy would cost a lot more I think they are both player which could far exceed the value they would cost via trade. I think we could realistically trade for Murphy whereas other players at the 4 that could actually start for us are currently out of our price range given our current assets and also too expensive.

By all accounts, a high price would be set on Murphy. Unless those idiots in New Orleans were to trade him at a big loss -- there's dumb and then there's REALLY dumb -- it's unlikely that his value would substantially exceed the cost of the trade.

As I and others have noted, Murphy isn't a native power forward.

[Snakebites]

We're seeing the emergeance of more and more big men who are capable of fulfilling more traditionally perimeter roles- who are more capable of playing in the modern NBA.

We'll never go back to low post offense as the primary means of offensive production, at least not in a future that's clearly forseeable now.

this isn't a league-wide trend towards posting up at all but it is cool to see tobias and especially cade use the post game as a tool in their tool bags. it was only for a few possessions a game but they were timely at the end of the shot clock or hunting mismatches.

considering duren and stewart averaged only 0.4 postups a game it's cool to see that the "player x is good at this skill *for their size*" mentality is going away and it's more about comparing how well they can do something league-wide.

Post play will never go away entirely. There will always be players who can use it effectively at various volumes.

But it’s never going to be the main course again, at least not for the foreseeable future.

[Crymson]

Post play will never go away entirely. There will always be players who can use it effectively at various volumes.

But it’s never going to be the main course again, at least not for the foreseeable future.

Yep. It's made a bit of a comeback in recent years, but that's relative -- there were still only ten players who efficiently averaged at least 3 PPG in the post last season, and only Jokic and Embiid managed 5+ (Jokic led the league with 6.4).