Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Twinkie defense]

brutal offseason for the Warriors.

I think they're having a good offseason and are just being patient, which is always a good strategy.

They're going to go into the season having added Al Horford, De'Anthony Melton, and probably Seth Curry. That's quite an upgrade from last season, don't you think?

They just want to maximize whatever value they can get from Kuminga, but they aren't and won't let Kuminga derail their plans.

[statsman]

Kuminga has a four-year, $90 million contract offer from the Suns that includes a player option for the final season. Warriors offered two-years, $45 million and expect him to be back with the Warriors this season on that deal or the QO, whichever he prefers.

Warriors don’t like the offers on the table from Suns and Kings and are considering stopping sign and trade talks with teams.

Considering the offers we heard about, did those talks ever really start?

I think it sends a message to Kuminga, you might want to play for the Suns or Kings but that's not gonna be an option anymore - your only options are play for the QO or sign this 1+1 deal with us and make some more money.

You think this is going to happen? I'm actually fine with it, as I don't see a S&T deal that helps the Warriors in the next two seasons. Keeping Kuminga under "duress" is not going to help either, but it doesn't sound like Lacob is about to give away Kuminga this offseason for garbage in return.

I go back to a comment I made a few weeks ago. If the Warriors stick with this stance, will Kuminga's agent run to the player's association for help?

[Twinkie defense]

As much as I would like an unprotected first from the kings, in a vacuum, how does that help us win a title this season (the one we both agree is likely to be our last real shot)? Unless we have a trade lined up for that FRP, I don't really want it. Sure, we'd 'win the trade' or whatever but would, likely, lose more games.

There's next season, too - having some first round picks to trade (along with a $20 mil salary slot) could bring a very good player to join Steph, Jimmy and Dray next season.

[Twinkie defense]

Considering the offers we heard about, did those talks ever really start?

I think it sends a message to Kuminga, you might want to play for the Suns or Kings but that's not gonna be an option anymore - your only options are play for the QO or sign this 1+1 deal with us and make some more money.

You think this is going to happen? I'm actually fine with it, as I don't see a S&T deal that helps the Warriors in the next two seasons. Keeping Kuminga under "duress" is not going to help either, but it doesn't sound like Lacob is about to give away Kuminga this offseason for garbage in return.

I go back to a comment I made a few weeks ago. If the Warriors stick with this stance, will Kuminga's agent run to the player's association for help?

Maybe it doesn't happen but it puts more pressure on both Kuminga and Suns/Kings to make something happen. It is a point of leverage.

I doubt Kuminga plays for the QO but also I don't think that is the worst outcome for the Warriors. If Kuminga signs a longer deal with the Warriors, Kerr has already said he will focus the first part of the season finding combinations and a role for Kuminga. Which will help his trade value and his next contract - maybe to the detriment of the Warriors winning games.

But if he plays for the QO Kerr is under no pressure to play him. He'll play him if he has to, like he did vs. Minnesota. But the responsibility shifts to Kuminga to prove he belongs on the court. I think this is a strong enough locker room culture to prevent Kuminga from tanking team chemistry. And it does not help Kuminga get his next deal if he seems like a malcontent.

The biggest downside for the Warriors is they aren't maximizing Kuminga's value as a trade asset in this situation.

IDK what the NBAPA is supposed to do though? They agreed to the rules that make Kuminga a restricted free agent.

[whatisacenter]

I fking love it. It now comes down to 1. Suns Kings bent down and give us what we need or 2. Kuminga takes QA and sits out for the season.

Let's see what happens next

Kings and Suns don't have to give in....the whole league is aware that JK wants out of here and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing on the QO and the dubs get the middle of a donut or the Warriors just take the scraps being offered.

brutal offseason for the Warriors.

I think they're having a good offseason and are just being patient, which is always a good strategy.

They're going to go into the season having added Al Horford, De'Anthony Melton, and probably Seth Curry. That's quite an upgrade from last season, don't you think?

They just want to maximize whatever value they can get from Kuminga, but they aren't and won't let Kuminga derail their plans.

It would be a good offseason if they were playing in an adult rec league.

[ChuckDurn]

I doubt anybody is going to give a fully unprotected 1st round pick for Kuminga, in any scenario. The only question is “how much is the protection”.

If it’s a deal with the Kings or Suns, I’d settle for:

2026: lottery-protected
2027: top-10 protected
2028: top-6 protected, if it doesn’t get conveyed at this point, the Warriors get 2028 and 2029 2nd-round pick and a future 1st-round swap

I’ve got to think those might be accepted by those teams.

And honestly, where we’ll want the picks is in 2027 and beyond, as the likelihood is that at that point we’re starting a rebuild. (Note: this is agnostic to the projected qualities of the drafts, I’m just looking at the timelines of our current top players.)

[ChuckDurn]

One other point that I’ll keep making - virtually every one of these sign-and-trade proposals have the Warriors sending out a combo forward (Kuminga), and bringing back one or more guards. This is adding to a guard mix that already includes Curry, Podziemski, Hield, presumably Melton, and maybe even Seth Curry or GP2 (along with Will Richard, though he’ll probably be on a 2-way).

And the only forwards on the roster would be Butler (old, injury- or rest-prone), Draymond (old, injury- or rest-prone), Moody, Santos (um….. don’t want to depend on him much), and Toohey (yikes).

So if the Warriors do a S&T with Kuminga that looks at all like what’s been speculated, they better have another trade lined up to trade a guard or two, and to get another forward or two in return. Otherwise we’ve got a huge roster balance issue.

[vvoland]

I fking love it. It now comes down to 1. Suns Kings bent down and give us what we need or 2. Kuminga takes QA and sits out for the season.

Let's see what happens next

Kings and Suns don't have to give in....the whole league is aware that JK wants out of here and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing on the QO and the dubs get the middle of a donut or the Warriors just take the scraps being offered.

brutal offseason for the Warriors.

I think they're having a good offseason and are just being patient, which is always a good strategy.

They're going to go into the season having added Al Horford, De'Anthony Melton, and probably Seth Curry. That's quite an upgrade from last season, don't you think?

They just want to maximize whatever value they can get from Kuminga, but they aren't and won't let Kuminga derail their plans.

It would be a good offseason if they were playing in an adult rec league.

Other than trading everyone and tanking, what would you have preferred they do this summer? JK on a value deal, horford, melton, and seth seems like a very good summer. Everyone is slobbering over the clips but they're actually older than we are and with far more injury concerns.

[vvoland]

As much as I would like an unprotected first from the kings, in a vacuum, how does that help us win a title this season (the one we both agree is likely to be our last real shot)? Unless we have a trade lined up for that FRP, I don't really want it. Sure, we'd 'win the trade' or whatever but would, likely, lose more games.

There's next season, too - having some first round picks to trade (along with a $20 mil salary slot) could bring a very good player to join Steph, Jimmy and Dray next season.

I'm not sure how we keep the salary slot while having some first rounds picks. Unless you mean keep JK at 20M or so, not trade any of our own picks, and use JK + Podz/Moody/ and/or Buddy + FRPs to get to ~50M and try to get a 4th star next to steph, dray, jimmy? I agree with that and still think it's our most likely option. Not trading for the 50M player but bringing JK back and having that flexibility

[vvoland]

Unprotected 1st probably gets it done

As much as I would like an unprotected first from the kings, in a vacuum, how does that help us win a title this season (the one we both agree is likely to be our last real shot)? Unless we have a trade lined up for that FRP, I don't really want it. Sure, we'd 'win the trade' or whatever but would, likely, lose more games.

You’re the last person that thinks jk wants to come back. Mdj making the 2nd year a team option tells you we don’t really want him back to stay on the team either.

Getting Carter + highsmith + unprotected 1st works for me.

I think, all things being equal, he would prefer to be elsewhere. Good thing he's not an UFA. MDJ asking for a team option AND jk to waive the NTC makes sense only if they don't let that derail the entire contract. I can't blame MDJ for asking for that just like I can't blame JK for countering w/ the 3/82. If he really didn't want to be here, why counter with anything, at all? Much less with a reasonable counter that could easily be met halfway?

That's before I get to the part that Sac, for all their idiocy, probably isn't stupid enough to trade an unprotected first. Still not sure how it helps unless we can move it immediately for a borderline starter (at least) but, just on it's own, it does nothing for me.

[Onus]

As much as I would like an unprotected first from the kings, in a vacuum, how does that help us win a title this season (the one we both agree is likely to be our last real shot)? Unless we have a trade lined up for that FRP, I don't really want it. Sure, we'd 'win the trade' or whatever but would, likely, lose more games.

You’re the last person that thinks jk wants to come back. Mdj making the 2nd year a team option tells you we don’t really want him back to stay on the team either.

Getting Carter + highsmith + unprotected 1st works for me.

I think, all things being equal, he would prefer to be elsewhere. Good thing he's not an UFA. MDJ asking for a team option AND jk to waive the NTC makes sense only if they don't let that derail the entire contract. I can't blame MDJ for asking for that just like I can't blame JK for countering w/ the 3/82. If he really didn't want to be here, why counter with anything, at all? Much less with a reasonable counter that could easily be met halfway?

That's before I get to the part that Sac, for all their idiocy, probably isn't stupid enough to trade an unprotected first. Still not sure how it helps unless we can move it immediately for a borderline starter (at least) but, just on it's own, it does nothing for me.

We don't need a starter back. Our starters are set for the most part unless you bring someone in that will be able to beat out melton or horford, which is highly unlikely.
Curry/Melton/JB/Dray/Horford.

I'd still trade a 1st for Keon which would essentially be giving them 2 1sts for Keon (they don't give up a 1st and get a 1st).

[wco81]

I doubt anybody is going to give a fully unprotected 1st round pick for Kuminga, in any scenario. The only question is “how much is the protection”.

If it’s a deal with the Kings or Suns, I’d settle for:

2026: lottery-protected
2027: top-10 protected
2028: top-6 protected, if it doesn’t get conveyed at this point, the Warriors get 2028 and 2029 2nd-round pick and a future 1st-round swap

I’ve got to think those might be accepted by those teams.

And honestly, where we’ll want the picks is in 2027 and beyond, as the likelihood is that at that point we’re starting a rebuild. (Note: this is agnostic to the projected qualities of the drafts, I’m just looking at the timelines of our current top players.)

2027 is suppose to be a really poor draft.

The worst in a long long time.

[whatisacenter]

I fking love it. It now comes down to 1. Suns Kings bent down and give us what we need or 2. Kuminga takes QA and sits out for the season.

Let's see what happens next

Kings and Suns don't have to give in....the whole league is aware that JK wants out of here and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing on the QO and the dubs get the middle of a donut or the Warriors just take the scraps being offered.

I think they're having a good offseason and are just being patient, which is always a good strategy.

They're going to go into the season having added Al Horford, De'Anthony Melton, and probably Seth Curry. That's quite an upgrade from last season, don't you think?

They just want to maximize whatever value they can get from Kuminga, but they aren't and won't let Kuminga derail their plans.

It would be a good offseason if they were playing in an adult rec league.

Other than trading everyone and tanking, what would you have preferred they do this summer? JK on a value deal, horford, melton, and seth seems like a very good summer. Everyone is slobbering over the clips but they're actually older than we are and with far more injury concerns.

I was clamoring to break up the core after losing to the Lakers in ‘23.

Putting all of their eggs in the over 35yo basket seems like a recipe for disaster. Hoping Melton stays healthy is foolish and do we even know when he will be ready to play?

[Crazy-Canuck]

Can they sign him to a 1 year deal? Just pitch him on hey you want out, here's $25M instead of $10M and we're trading you at the deadline.

Why would the Warriors pay Kuminga 3x what they have to pay him to play one season for them? And why would another team trade for him - or give up anything of value - for a 40 game rental?

That's what the warriors are essentially offering now.

Kuminga gets a bigger deal on a 1+1 such he can renegotiate and extend next offseason.

Warriors get a cap ballast they can use to make a deal at the deadline for a better fitting 25M player.

New team gets to test drive kuminga before buying.

[vvoland]

Kings and Suns don't have to give in....the whole league is aware that JK wants out of here and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up playing on the QO and the dubs get the middle of a donut or the Warriors just take the scraps being offered.



It would be a good offseason if they were playing in an adult rec league.

Other than trading everyone and tanking, what would you have preferred they do this summer? JK on a value deal, horford, melton, and seth seems like a very good summer. Everyone is slobbering over the clips but they're actually older than we are and with far more injury concerns.

I was clamoring to break up the core after losing to the Lakers in ‘23.

Putting all of their eggs in the over 35yo basket seems like a recipe for disaster. Hoping Melton stays healthy is foolish and do we even know when he will be ready to play?

I hear you, putting their eggs in the basket of Steph/Dray/Jimmy isn't free of risk. In fact, it's hella risky. That said, they were a pulled hammy away from the WCF just three months ago.

Let me ask, if trading steph isn't an option (thank god), what would you have wanted them to do this summer to maximize winning? jettison JK for nothing and use the NTMLE? Trade him for DC and Saric just to make him go away? Genuinely curious.

[whatisacenter]

Other than trading everyone and tanking, what would you have preferred they do this summer? JK on a value deal, horford, melton, and seth seems like a very good summer. Everyone is slobbering over the clips but they're actually older than we are and with far more injury concerns.

I was clamoring to break up the core after losing to the Lakers in ‘23.

Putting all of their eggs in the over 35yo basket seems like a recipe for disaster. Hoping Melton stays healthy is foolish and do we even know when he will be ready to play?

I hear you, putting their eggs in the basket of Steph/Dray/Jimmy isn't free of risk. In fact, it's hella risky. That said, they were a pulled hammy away from the WCF just three months ago.

Let me ask, if trading steph isn't an option (thank god), what would you have wanted them to do this summer to maximize winning? jettison JK for nothing and use the NTMLE? Trade him for DC and Saric just to make him go away? Genuinely curious.

I’m not a fan of Draymond in general and don’t like his pairing with Butler so I would have wanted the team to move him if possible.

It’s kind of a moot point at this point tho. They made the decision to go down this road when they traded for Jimmy and they look to be doubling down by getting a 39yo center.

I agree they had a decent shot against the wolves until Curry went down but they were also close to being sent home in the first round if Houston had made some FT’s early in that series.

[TB]

Doesn’t seem like the Warriors want Kuminga (outside of a deal they can trade asap) and doesn’t seem like Kuminga has any interest in being a Warrior.

Trade him for O’Neale, Ighodaro, and Fleming (on Aug 7th when he can be traded)

Trade Trayce for Julian Phillips since Bulls don’t need him and we don’t need Trayce so its a good swap based on fit.

Sign Horford, Morris, Melton

Steph / Morris / Melton
Podz / Buddy / Phillips
Jimmy / Moody / Fleming
Dray / O’Neale / Santos
Horford / Post / Oso

[statsman]

Trade him for O’Neale, Ighodaro, and Fleming (on Aug 7th when he can be traded)

What are the odds the Suns and the Warriors would agree to that trade?

[TB]

Trade him for O’Neale, Ighodaro, and Fleming (on Aug 7th when he can be traded)

What are the odds the Suns and the Warriors would agree to that trade?

I have no idea. Feels like a trade both fan bases would hate… which is usually a sign of a trade that is actually fair

My thoughts: Moody and O’Neale getting the Kuminga minutes makes the Warriors better. I like Oso more than Trayce so I think thats a nice upgrade for big-man depth (not to mention getting 3/D potential in Phillips if the followup trade is made). I’m not huge Fleming, but he’s got some potential and they don’t really have picks to trade instead. It also lets them pay a bit more money to get Horford/Morris which are our 2 biggest needs (stretch 5 and backup PG).

[Crazy-Canuck]

Imo, the Warriors want the salary slot of in any deal for kuminga. It's clear by now that they won't get anyone useful for kuminga.

Suns are offering broken pieces (let's ignore that they don't have the reported 2nds to trade). When the warriors need a trade at the deadline, those 3 or 4 for 1 deals are unlikely. Hence a poor poo platter.

The kings are now offering 1 rotation player + a protected pick. If that's the case, then it's likely monk. Now that pick isn't for kuminga, it's for taking on monk and his long contract. That's why the need for the pick to become unprotected. Demar is the other option, he is a much more palatable contract. But, he also doesn't fit and he might have been promised to Miami.

Kuminga at a 1+1 is likely more tradeable at the deadline.
Monk at 3/80 isnt.
Demar has only 50% of his contract guaranteed, but is a poor fit.

Mjd wants someone who can shoot, defend, and whos contract lines up with steph, jimmy, and dray.

Any trade with sacramento or the suns is trading kuminga to just get away from him. And that doesn't help the team.