Top 10 Worst Moves Post Dwight

[Bensational]

And no, saying that a decision in the moment wasnt bad because it equaled something later, in a roundabout way, doesn’t negate the actual decisions being made.

That’s like saying you are glad we didn’t draft SGA over Bamba because we now have Paolo or Franz. I mean sure but that’s like an argument an 8 year old would make. Way too many circumstantial events would need to take place otherwise without having the power of foresight. You have to judge the moves at the exact moment within context.

Also, the 2023 draft might go down as top 5 on this list within the next 3-4 years with how things have been trending. That was a crucial point for talent acquisition and as of now 1/2 of those lotto picks are unplayable. The other half are serviceable but without a real role. One was a reach and the other just had another rookie taken at their supposed position with little chance to get back into the lotto.

Holy walking contradiction, if you’re going to judge the 23 draft “from that exact moment within context”, how are you determining it a failure on the night of the draft and why are you looking back now to make that determination - per your own reasoning? I’m not making a defense for that draft being good, just asking you to uphold your own standards.

Well that’s how we judge decisions obviously. That’s why I said “in 3-4 years”and used the word “might” if you read my statement speaking of context. Anyway… how is that statement not within context?

Because Jett Howard was a massive reach at #11, nobody mocked him that high, and he doesn’t look like an nba player?

Anthony Black was considered a point guard at #6, Corey Joseph started over him, Orlando just drafted another point guard, and signed a legitimate backup to Suggs in Tyus Jones.

Is that not enough context for you? As of now those are facts 2 years later whether people like them or not for two lottery draft picks. Up until this offseason this team desperately needed playmaking and volume shooting in the backcourt for a variety of lineups. Neither provided that.

That draft was important to rounding out the starting lineup and guys first off the bench. That’s not me saying that Weltman should have taken Maxey over Cole in 2020 or something. That’s just patently saying that the 2023 draft so far doesn’t look good within the context of where those players are relative to their picks given their roles on the roster.

You’re contradicting yourself because on one hand you’re saying a “bad” move which becomes a “good” move down the line can’t be considered a good move, but a bad move later evaluated as a bad move can still be a bad move. But you’re also trying to say you have to judge a move based on that exact moment and the context of that moment, but then trying to evaluate it from today’s vantage point.

Like, keeping Vuc after the team had just drafted Bamba - in the context of that moment it might’ve seemed like a bad move to hang on to a guy who would block Bamba’s minutes. But Bamba eventually got minutes and showed he wasn’t worth them and Vuc became an allstar that year, and later was traded for WCJ, Franz and Jett. You don’t get to draw a line in the sand and say “only moves up to this point are to be considered” just because things were handled better after that.

Go back to the 23 draft - the Magic went into the draft needing playmaking snd shooting. In the context of that moment, they picked the most commonly highest ranked PG prospect left on the board to address the team’s weaknesses - what more did you want them to do with that pick? They drafted a shooter in Jett to address the lack of shooting - and in that situation you have a case to make because, in the context of that moment, they overreached - like you said.

But the context of that moment was that both players were regarded to have the skills we were missing - playmaking and shooting. They’ve yet to pan out, but on draft night they fit the profiles. I mean, Phoenix signed Tyus Jones to be a starter and he helped lead them back into the lottery so not all moves that appear right on paper are always right.

What decision would you have made otherwise? Picked Cason Wallace #6? Podziemski #11? Because there aren’t many other prospects that were otherwise passed on that we can be upset about not drafting. We didn’t leave an SGA on the board that draft. We went in needing playmaking and shooting and we took guys who did those things well in college.

[pepe1991]

2017 and 2018 are terrible asset management decisions no matter do you use hindsight to prove it or go back and judge it from POV of past.

In terms of complete inability to judge talent and "stack" talent to build roster, addition of Bamba after drafting Isaac is as illogical and dumb as adding Biyombo to Ibaka or Payton to Oladipo.
It shows complete lack of understanding of modern basketball.

2016, 2017 or 2018 were all "modern basketball eras" as champions of that era were Warriors, Cavs, Warriors, Warriors.
Center position was as irrelevant as ever.

Curry- Durant- Klay- Green / Love - Lebron- Kyrie.

Those championship teams were played from perimeter, starting C, on paper, on Cavs was Tristan Thompson, Warriors started Javle McGee. That's how irrelevant for success Center position was. We were already deep into perimeter ball handling, spacing, 3 point shooting era with multiple playmakers and army of shooters.

Yet that did not stop first Hennigan to sign Biyombo and trade for Ibaka, than Hammond and Weltman to draft Isaac.
After first year of Isaac, where he proved he has no perimeter skills whatsoever, next year they draft basically player who is his twin in terms of playing style.


And words can't express how idiotic this was from start. by the 2018 whole world, but Weltman knew that modern basketball can't be played with 3/5 starters being able to put ball on the deck or make passes. Isaac and Bamba couldn't do neither.
To add more insult to injury, they also weren't traditional Cs where you could use them in post or use them in miss match below rim. They were "perimeter " center but who sucked on perimeter. Bamba could make open 3 from time to time, but couldn't set screen to save his life, Isaac couldn't set screens but also couldn't score in any way. But at least he was good on defense. Bamba couldn't even process nba defense and that supposed to be his (only) strength.
Mo Bamba entered nba as one of worst college passers of all time. 30 games, 15 assists, x3 turnovers. Good pairing to Isaac, who finished rookie year with 18 assists on 27 turnovers, after being fat negative at passing at college.


Because of roster malpractice and flat out incompetence by Hennigan, Wetlman and Hammond, Gordon was biggest victim because he had to play SF. God only knows how many times we had talks how he is or isn't new Paul George / Kawhi but, to me, Shawn Marion or insert any other power forward that should be at dunker's spot majority of his time on the floor.
So, in order to fit impossible fits like Isaac at starting PF, or Bamba at C, Gordon was encouraged to play like small wing. Final result- in not a single season for Orlando Magic, Gordon had anywhere near average efficiency.


Second victim in all this were us. Fans. From 2014- 2024 we had to watch Payton and Fultz. Again, in modern basketball era, dominated by Steph Curry. With guys like Kyrie, Luka, Lebron, Lowry, Jrue, Durant... we had to watch two guys who couldn't shoot to save their lives. They weren't bad shooters by PG standards, they were bad shooters by G league bench players. Like, Payton literally is career 28,6% three point- low usage shooter.
Fultz is career 28% three point shooter.


Both guys went from starting in Orlando to being jobless. That's how bad they are. And yet, Payton started 297 games for Orlando over 4 seasons, Fultz 149 - over 5 seasons ( would be more if he wasn't broken all the time ).

I'm sorry, but those are indeed- top 10 worst post Dwight decisions. Probably number 1 and number 2.

1) Roster without PG in modern era, where PG is on consistent bases worst player at his position in nba- for a damn decade
2) Roster where good players are sacrificed for worst players and only play because of draft stock, and where draftees are added without any context of a team or have any objective chance at working together ( Isaac - Bamba, never had objective chance at working in modern era while playing along side each other , they were bad on offense even in Summer leagues ).


Also searching for some old stuff i found this Nugget Kind a hilarious that so many of us were dead- set on idea of finding great PG of future- back in 2018, that lot of us liked SGA and that somehow we got "Jokić- Gordon lob city " 3 years before it happened. Too bad we got Broken Bones Harry instead of Blue Arrow from trade

Hell, it's good thing that Nuggets GM didn't read forum. Imagine if Nuggets actually pulled this off . Two of best players in a game. Teammates for +8 years. Nuggets would be new 90s Bulls.

[fendilim]

Worst move Post-Dwight
Orlando Magic selected Aaron Gordon over Nikola Jokic.
Oladipo over Giannis.

[VFX]

Holy walking contradiction, if you’re going to judge the 23 draft “from that exact moment within context”, how are you determining it a failure on the night of the draft and why are you looking back now to make that determination - per your own reasoning? I’m not making a defense for that draft being good, just asking you to uphold your own standards.

Well that’s how we judge decisions obviously. That’s why I said “in 3-4 years”and used the word “might” if you read my statement speaking of context. Anyway… how is that statement not within context?

Because Jett Howard was a massive reach at #11, nobody mocked him that high, and he doesn’t look like an nba player?

Anthony Black was considered a point guard at #6, Corey Joseph started over him, Orlando just drafted another point guard, and signed a legitimate backup to Suggs in Tyus Jones.

Is that not enough context for you? As of now those are facts 2 years later whether people like them or not for two lottery draft picks. Up until this offseason this team desperately needed playmaking and volume shooting in the backcourt for a variety of lineups. Neither provided that.

That draft was important to rounding out the starting lineup and guys first off the bench. That’s not me saying that Weltman should have taken Maxey over Cole in 2020 or something. That’s just patently saying that the 2023 draft so far doesn’t look good within the context of where those players are relative to their picks given their roles on the roster.

You’re contradicting yourself because on one hand you’re saying a “bad” move which becomes a “good” move down the line can’t be considered a good move, but a bad move later evaluated as a bad move can still be a bad move. But you’re also trying to say you have to judge a move based on that exact moment and the context of that moment, but then trying to evaluate it from today’s vantage point.

Like, keeping Vuc after the team had just drafted Bamba - in the context of that moment it might’ve seemed like a bad move to hang on to a guy who would block Bamba’s minutes. But Bamba eventually got minutes and showed he wasn’t worth them and Vuc became an allstar that year, and later was traded for WCJ, Franz and Jett. You don’t get to draw a line in the sand and say “only moves up to this point are to be considered” just because things were handled better after that.

Go back to the 23 draft - the Magic went into the draft needing playmaking snd shooting. In the context of that moment, they picked the most commonly highest ranked PG prospect left on the board to address the team’s weaknesses - what more did you want them to do with that pick? They drafted a shooter in Jett to address the lack of shooting - and in that situation you have a case to make because, in the context of that moment, they overreached - like you said.

But the context of that moment was that both players were regarded to have the skills we were missing - playmaking and shooting. They’ve yet to pan out, but on draft night they fit the profiles. I mean, Phoenix signed Tyus Jones to be a starter and he helped lead them back into the lottery so not all moves that appear right on paper are always right.

What decision would you have made otherwise? Picked Cason Wallace #6? Podziemski #11? Because there aren’t many other prospects that were otherwise passed on that we can be upset about not drafting. We didn’t leave an SGA on the board that draft. We went in needing playmaking and shooting and we took guys who did those things well in college.

Bamba while having Vuc was stupid. We were rolling out DJ Augustin and Fournier as a starting backcourt that year and year prior. Better guard and wing options were on the board. We didn’t even know what the return for Vuc would be if that was their grand plan. That’s called a decision within context being dumb. They didn’t hedge their bets whatsoever.

I’m not going to continually fault a FO for not making the perfect draft selection every year like not picking Jokic, Maxey, or Giannis in much later drafts is the point. Failing to pick positional upgrades though that won’t see minutes or whiffing on multiple LOTTERY picks isn’t within that purview.

Cason Wallace and Dereck Lively should have been the picks in retrospect. You don’t select some guy from Michigan 15 spots higher than mocked because he wore a specific color and ownership couldn’t help themselves. I can buy them taking Gradey Dick or Hawkins as they were mocked there despite not panning out or looking good so far. That just means they were absolutely not as advertised like the current FO thought they had better talent evaluation in previous drafts which they didn’t. THAT is context.

And again.. maybe Anthony Black develops some skills on offense and blows my socks off.. that’s a big IF but it’s entirely possible. It just doesn’t seem likely.

And yeah it’s pretty simple logic my guy. You think Weltman or any GM for that matter makes immediate decisions knowing in 2-3 years time some random draft selection makes up for 3 seasons of indecision, bad draft selections, or no trades? Yeah that’s massive cope. Dismissing previous years because you don’t like the results at the time but you still want to attribute the highlights in retrospect isn’t using context. This isn’t the highlights thread.

[eyriq]

It’s not speculation to factor in ownership influence. Every GM operates within those boundaries, especially after a failed rebuild. You don’t keep Vuc, AG, and Fournier for multiple seasons, make the playoffs, and then pivot into a teardown without internal buy-in. That’s not hyperbole, that’s how front office dynamics actually work.

It’s kind of tricky to really hold this line of thinking though, considering that the Magic were bad enough to finish 5th last in 2016-17 and then got bad lottery luck and dropped to the 6th pick, same in 17-18. Weltman had made both picks in both years and he didn’t really make any bold moves to overhaul the roster or central players - that’s not really “win-now” action.

If anything I think Clifford’s hiring marked when they got serious about becoming more competitive, and that was 2 offseasons into their tenure. Vuc becoming an allstar that season and leading the team to the playoffs is probably what catalysed the FO and ownership into wanting to remain competitive instead of returning straight back to tanking and rebuilding.

I’m not a critic of WeHam, I think they’ve managed to surf their way out of that era and have set us up well for the future, but I also think it’s fair to say they wasted 2 summers and a season with “evaluation” rather than adding legit talent. That said - I think the franchise itself had a pretty tarnished reputation and lack of appeal to marquee talent at the same time. Durant basically scoffed at the idea of joining the Magic after he chose to ride GSWs coattails to a couple of championships. So maybe their hands were tied by past failures? I dunno, it’s probably as much conjecture as claiming ownership directives we’ve never seen nor heard quoted.

That’s fair, but ownership influence wasn’t speculation. Reporting from that era shows they were involved in past hires like Skiles and Vogel, and while Weltman said he had full control, that kind of autonomy still required trust-building. Rich DeVos was in declining health and wanted to see progress, not another teardown. In their second season, the team made a strong playoff push and won 42 games. They weren’t going to greenlight a full rebuild right after the Hennigan mess. That “evaluation” period wasn’t wasted time, it was about building credibility and getting the backing to pivot the right way.

[eyriq]

The argument you are attempting to make with this thread is that 9-10/10 out of the worst decisions of the last 13 years are all attributed to Hennigan. Sorry, but no.

The first 3-4 seasons of Weltman were questionable with some BAD decisions and indecisions. You could even argue the last 4 years of indecision on the trade market and re-signing terrible non value players for the last 5-6 seasons were just as bad even if they miss the top 10.

And no, saying that a decision in the moment wasnt bad because it equaled something later, in a roundabout way, doesn’t negate the actual decisions being made.

That’s like saying you are glad we didn’t draft SGA over Bamba because we now have Paolo or Franz. I mean sure but that’s like an argument an 8 year old would make. Way too many circumstantial events would need to take place otherwise without having the power of foresight. You have to judge the moves at the exact moment within context.

Also, the 2023 draft might go down as top 5 on this list within the next 3-4 years with how things have been trending. That was a crucial point for talent acquisition and as of now 1/2 of those lotto picks are unplayable. The other half are serviceable but without a real role. One was a reach and the other just had another rookie taken at their supposed position with little chance to get back into the lotto.

You're misrepresenting both the thread and the rebuild. The list doesn’t absolve Weltman; it focuses on the most damaging decisions, and the overwhelming bulk of those trace back to Hennigan because his moves gutted asset value and locked the team into a dead-end core.

Weltman’s early years weren’t perfect, but calling a measured playoff push “indecision” ignores the context. Ownership didn’t want an immediate teardown after the Hennigan collapse, and the team made the playoffs with the sixth-biggest year-over-year win jump in franchise history.

You can critique the 2023 draft, but it didn’t derail the rebuild. We already have the core. That’s the hard part. Acting like every move that wasn’t a home run belongs in the top 10 just waters down the whole concept.

[VFX]

The argument you are attempting to make with this thread is that 9-10/10 out of the worst decisions of the last 13 years are all attributed to Hennigan. Sorry, but no.

The first 3-4 seasons of Weltman were questionable with some BAD decisions and indecisions. You could even argue the last 4 years of indecision on the trade market and re-signing terrible non value players for the last 5-6 seasons were just as bad even if they miss the top 10.

And no, saying that a decision in the moment wasnt bad because it equaled something later, in a roundabout way, doesn’t negate the actual decisions being made.

That’s like saying you are glad we didn’t draft SGA over Bamba because we now have Paolo or Franz. I mean sure but that’s like an argument an 8 year old would make. Way too many circumstantial events would need to take place otherwise without having the power of foresight. You have to judge the moves at the exact moment within context.

Also, the 2023 draft might go down as top 5 on this list within the next 3-4 years with how things have been trending. That was a crucial point for talent acquisition and as of now 1/2 of those lotto picks are unplayable. The other half are serviceable but without a real role. One was a reach and the other just had another rookie taken at their supposed position with little chance to get back into the lotto.

You're misrepresenting both the thread and the rebuild. The list doesn’t absolve Weltman; it focuses on the most damaging decisions, and the overwhelming bulk of those trace back to Hennigan because his moves gutted asset value and locked the team into a dead-end core.

Weltman’s early years weren’t perfect, but calling a measured playoff push “indecision” ignores the context. Ownership didn’t want an immediate teardown after the Hennigan collapse, and the team made the playoffs with the sixth-biggest year-over-year win jump in franchise history.

You can critique the 2023 draft, but it didn’t derail the rebuild. We already have the core. That’s the hard part. Acting like every move that wasn’t a home run belongs in the top 10 just waters down the whole concept.

So you think 9/10 of the worst decisions in the last 13 seasons came within a 4.5 year window between 2012-2017. Sorry, just no.

The Hennigan rebuild was largely inconsequential and nobody here had realistic expectations for those teams to do anything based on the early return for the previous roster. The talent never gelled. The draft choices were all 4th and 5th option pieces tasked with doing more than their talent allowed.

On one hand you attribute the Ibaka trade as poor, arguably top 1-3 on this list (no argument there), despite ownership vying for contention at all costs. Then, you will say Weltman isn’t at fault by inactivity because ownership wanted to be competing with a largely ineffective roster until the team themselves cut the cord. Lol.

[eyriq]

The argument you are attempting to make with this thread is that 9-10/10 out of the worst decisions of the last 13 years are all attributed to Hennigan. Sorry, but no.

The first 3-4 seasons of Weltman were questionable with some BAD decisions and indecisions. You could even argue the last 4 years of indecision on the trade market and re-signing terrible non value players for the last 5-6 seasons were just as bad even if they miss the top 10.

And no, saying that a decision in the moment wasnt bad because it equaled something later, in a roundabout way, doesn’t negate the actual decisions being made.

That’s like saying you are glad we didn’t draft SGA over Bamba because we now have Paolo or Franz. I mean sure but that’s like an argument an 8 year old would make. Way too many circumstantial events would need to take place otherwise without having the power of foresight. You have to judge the moves at the exact moment within context.

Also, the 2023 draft might go down as top 5 on this list within the next 3-4 years with how things have been trending. That was a crucial point for talent acquisition and as of now 1/2 of those lotto picks are unplayable. The other half are serviceable but without a real role. One was a reach and the other just had another rookie taken at their supposed position with little chance to get back into the lotto.

You're misrepresenting both the thread and the rebuild. The list doesn’t absolve Weltman; it focuses on the most damaging decisions, and the overwhelming bulk of those trace back to Hennigan because his moves gutted asset value and locked the team into a dead-end core.

Weltman’s early years weren’t perfect, but calling a measured playoff push “indecision” ignores the context. Ownership didn’t want an immediate teardown after the Hennigan collapse, and the team made the playoffs with the sixth-biggest year-over-year win jump in franchise history.

You can critique the 2023 draft, but it didn’t derail the rebuild. We already have the core. That’s the hard part. Acting like every move that wasn’t a home run belongs in the top 10 just waters down the whole concept.

So you think 9/10 of the worst decisions in the last 13 seasons came within a 4.5 year window between 2012-2017. Sorry, just no.

The Hennigan rebuild was largely inconsequential and nobody here had realistic expectations for those teams to do anything based on the early return for the previous roster. The talent never gelled. The draft choices were all 4th and 5th option pieces tasked with doing more than their talent allowed.

On one hand you attribute the Ibaka trade as poor, arguably top 1-3 on this list (no argument there), despite ownership vying for contention at all costs. Then, you will say Weltman isn’t at fault by inactivity because ownership wanted to be competing with a largely ineffective roster until the team themselves cut the cord. Lol.

A failed rebuild has consequences. It leaves you asset-poor, cap-constrained, and stuck chasing upside that never materializes. That was the Hennigan era. The worst decisions on this list are his because they directly led to that failure. Bad talent evals, rushed trades, no long-term vision...

Weltman inherited that mess and rebuilt from it. The result is two franchise guys, a top-tier core, and one of the best player development pipelines in the league. Not every move has been perfect, but the rebuild worked. That’s the difference. Mistakes during a successful rebuild don’t carry the same weight as the ones that cratered the last one.

[VFX]

You're misrepresenting both the thread and the rebuild. The list doesn’t absolve Weltman; it focuses on the most damaging decisions, and the overwhelming bulk of those trace back to Hennigan because his moves gutted asset value and locked the team into a dead-end core.

Weltman’s early years weren’t perfect, but calling a measured playoff push “indecision” ignores the context. Ownership didn’t want an immediate teardown after the Hennigan collapse, and the team made the playoffs with the sixth-biggest year-over-year win jump in franchise history.

You can critique the 2023 draft, but it didn’t derail the rebuild. We already have the core. That’s the hard part. Acting like every move that wasn’t a home run belongs in the top 10 just waters down the whole concept.

So you think 9/10 of the worst decisions in the last 13 seasons came within a 4.5 year window between 2012-2017. Sorry, just no.

The Hennigan rebuild was largely inconsequential and nobody here had realistic expectations for those teams to do anything based on the early return for the previous roster. The talent never gelled. The draft choices were all 4th and 5th option pieces tasked with doing more than their talent allowed.

On one hand you attribute the Ibaka trade as poor, arguably top 1-3 on this list (no argument there), despite ownership vying for contention at all costs. Then, you will say Weltman isn’t at fault by inactivity because ownership wanted to be competing with a largely ineffective roster until the team themselves cut the cord. Lol.

A failed rebuild has consequences. It leaves you asset-poor, cap-constrained, and stuck chasing upside that never materializes. That was the Hennigan era. The worst decisions on this list are his because they directly led to that failure. Bad talent evals, rushed trades, no long-term vision...

Weltman inherited that mess and rebuilt from it. The result is two franchise guys, a top-tier core, and one of the best player development pipelines in the league. Not every move has been perfect, but the rebuild worked. That’s the difference. Mistakes during a successful rebuild don’t carry the same weight as the ones that cratered the last one.

You're right. Weltman hasn't made any top 10 bad decisions his entire tenure here. Hennigan made 10/10 in a 4 season window.


The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[eyriq]

So you think 9/10 of the worst decisions in the last 13 seasons came within a 4.5 year window between 2012-2017. Sorry, just no.

The Hennigan rebuild was largely inconsequential and nobody here had realistic expectations for those teams to do anything based on the early return for the previous roster. The talent never gelled. The draft choices were all 4th and 5th option pieces tasked with doing more than their talent allowed.

On one hand you attribute the Ibaka trade as poor, arguably top 1-3 on this list (no argument there), despite ownership vying for contention at all costs. Then, you will say Weltman isn’t at fault by inactivity because ownership wanted to be competing with a largely ineffective roster until the team themselves cut the cord. Lol.

A failed rebuild has consequences. It leaves you asset-poor, cap-constrained, and stuck chasing upside that never materializes. That was the Hennigan era. The worst decisions on this list are his because they directly led to that failure. Bad talent evals, rushed trades, no long-term vision...

Weltman inherited that mess and rebuilt from it. The result is two franchise guys, a top-tier core, and one of the best player development pipelines in the league. Not every move has been perfect, but the rebuild worked. That’s the difference. Mistakes during a successful rebuild don’t carry the same weight as the ones that cratered the last one.

You're right. Weltman hasn't made any top 10 bad decisions his entire tenure here. Hennigan made 10/10 in a 4 season window.


The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Ah, there it is. Another unhinged reply powered entirely by a rage boner for Weltman. You’re so desperate to dunk on him that you forgot how reading works. The Gordon trade is on the list. Maybe slow down and try comprehension next time?

This isn’t about absolving Weltman. It’s a ranking of the most damaging decisions, and shocker, most of them happened under Hennigan. Why? Because his rebuild was a complete failure. He burned through assets, botched picks, and left the team capped out with zero stars. That kind of incompetence has long-term consequences. Weltman inherited that crater and actually built something. Two franchise players. A core four as good as any. A top-tier development pipeline. But sure, let’s obsess over Jett Howard and Bamba.

[VFX]

A failed rebuild has consequences. It leaves you asset-poor, cap-constrained, and stuck chasing upside that never materializes. That was the Hennigan era. The worst decisions on this list are his because they directly led to that failure. Bad talent evals, rushed trades, no long-term vision...

Weltman inherited that mess and rebuilt from it. The result is two franchise guys, a top-tier core, and one of the best player development pipelines in the league. Not every move has been perfect, but the rebuild worked. That’s the difference. Mistakes during a successful rebuild don’t carry the same weight as the ones that cratered the last one.

You're right. Weltman hasn't made any top 10 bad decisions his entire tenure here. Hennigan made 10/10 in a 4 season window.


The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Ah, there it is. Another unhinged reply powered entirely by a rage boner for Weltman. You’re so desperate to dunk on him that you forgot how reading works. The Gordon trade is on the list. Maybe slow down and try comprehension next time?

This isn’t about absolving Weltman. It’s a ranking of the most damaging decisions, and shocker, most of them happened under Hennigan. Why? Because his rebuild was a complete failure. He burned through assets, botched picks, and left the team capped out with zero stars. That kind of incompetence has long-term consequences. Weltman inherited that crater and actually built something. Two franchise players. A core four as good as any. A top-tier development pipeline. But sure, let’s obsess over Jett Howard and Bamba.

You have Mario Hezonja in a supremely weak draft and Andrew Nicholson at #19 before Bamba at #6 in a loaded draft in a complete rebuild

Sorry Im not falling for your "Weltman has been playing 12D chess for 8 years" schtick you want to perpetuate with this dumb thread.

What is even the purpose of such a thread? Merely to say this rebuild has been flawless and Hennigan was a 35 year old idiot fall guy. Thats cool I guess? People can start digging up the past apparently if it doesnt 100% fit a narrative causing people to throw up on themselves.

And yeah, sorry I think lottery picks being taken as reaches or without positional value are bad mistakes.

[eyriq]

You're right. Weltman hasn't made any top 10 bad decisions his entire tenure here. Hennigan made 10/10 in a 4 season window.


The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Ah, there it is. Another unhinged reply powered entirely by a rage boner for Weltman. You’re so desperate to dunk on him that you forgot how reading works. The Gordon trade is on the list. Maybe slow down and try comprehension next time?

This isn’t about absolving Weltman. It’s a ranking of the most damaging decisions, and shocker, most of them happened under Hennigan. Why? Because his rebuild was a complete failure. He burned through assets, botched picks, and left the team capped out with zero stars. That kind of incompetence has long-term consequences. Weltman inherited that crater and actually built something. Two franchise players. A core four as good as any. A top-tier development pipeline. But sure, let’s obsess over Jett Howard and Bamba.

You have Mario Hezonja in a supremely weak draft and Andrew Nicholson at #19 before Bamba at #6 in a loaded draft in a complete rebuild

Sorry Im not falling for your "Weltman has been playing 12D chess for 8 years" schtick you want to perpetuate with this dumb thread.

What is even the purpose of such a thread? Merely to say this rebuild has been flawless and Hennigan was a 35 year old idiot fall guy. Thats cool I guess? People can start digging up the past apparently if it doesnt 100% fit a narrative causing people to throw up on themselves.

I'm not sure what you don't get. The list ranks the most damaging moves, not every bad draft pick. That means focusing on decisions that derailed the team’s trajectory, not just ones that aged poorly. Hennigan’s era dominates because his mistakes included bad talent evals, panic trades, no long-term vision which left the team capped out and asset-poor. That’s what failure looks like.

Weltman hasn’t been perfect, but he rebuilt from that wreckage. Two franchise players, a legit core, and elite development are results, not hypotheticals. The point isn’t that he’s flawless. It’s that not all mistakes carry the same weight because outcomes matter. Hennigan flamed out, Weltman is going strong. I'm not surprised you can't wrap your head around this given how single-minded and ingrained your hate for Weltman is.

[Bensational]

Worst move Post-Dwight
Orlando Magic selected Aaron Gordon over Nikola Jokic.

Pffft, we could’ve picked both, taking Jokic instead of Payton and had a championship front court back then. Could’ve even traded Vuc for an early 2nd to take Jokic, too.

[Bensational]

The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Stacked? The only guys taken after Bamba of any consequence are:

SGA (picked 11th)
Mikal Bridges (picked 10th)
MPJ (picked 14th, had back problems and is also terribly overrated)
Anfernee Simons (picked 24th).
Brunson (picked in the 2nd round)

It was stacked before the 6th pick with Luka, Trae and JJJr, but even they were overlooked for Ayton and Bagley at the top 2 slots. But those choices weren’t available to us. Your criticism of Jett was that he was taken well before he was mocked. Well, Bamba was consistently mocked in the top 6. The pick was a bust, but his profile was worth the gamble to many scouts and commentators.

Stop slinging insults just because people disagree with you. What’s up with that?

[VFX]

The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Stacked? The only guys taken after Bamba of any consequence are:

SGA (picked 11th)
Mikal Bridges (picked 10th)
MPJ (picked 14th, had back problems and is also terribly overrated)
Anfernee Simons (picked 24th).
Brunson (picked in the 2nd round)

It was stacked before the 6th pick with Luka, Trae and JJJr, but even they were overlooked for Ayton and Bagley at the top 2 slots. But those choices weren’t available to us. Your criticism of Jett was that he was taken well before he was mocked. Well, Bamba was consistently mocked in the top 6. The pick was a bust, but his profile was worth the gamble to many scouts and commentators.

Stop slinging insults just because people disagree with you. What’s up with that?

Posting a bunch of Hennigan L’s isn’t really what we are talking about here while we feign the reason for this arbitrary list. It’s one posters agenda to celebrate where the roster is after nearly a decade of irrelevance under one FO.

Yeah and again you are missing now like 3-4 posts of explaining why the Bamba selection was worse than picking Mario instead of Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, or Frank Kaminsky… or selecting Nicholson at #19.

WITHIN CONTEXT the pick made no sense. Vucevic played a zillion minutes and they had no intention of pulling the plug on the roster until AG called it quits. Mario was called a scorer to a team with bad wings and guards.

Jett pick made no sense. Even if you picked players mocked in the range of #11 you’d still land for a guy heralded as a volume shooter. They did neither. They selected a reach AND he didn’t pan out as opposed to picking a mocked player that didn’t and was considered literally the same archetype.

Thats what I’m saying here. Sure, you could be “that guy”and run through every draft saying “yeah they didn’t take X” that’s not what I’m doing. Indecision for years, no trades for multiple seasons, holding onto players until value reaches zero like Fultz, etc etc. it’s cumulative.

[fendilim]

Worst move Post-Dwight
Orlando Magic selected Aaron Gordon over Nikola Jokic.

Pffft, we could’ve picked both, taking Jokic instead of Payton and had a championship front court back then. Could’ve even traded Vuc for an early 2nd to take Jokic, too.

I agree. Damn GM. That’s what these guys are paid to do, evaluate talent.

[Bensational]

Posting a bunch of Hennigan L’s isn’t really what we are talking about here while we feign the reason for this arbitrary list. It’s one posters agenda to celebrate where the roster is after nearly a decade of irrelevance under one FO.

Yeah and again you are missing now like 3-4 posts of explaining why the Bamba selection was worse than picking Mario instead of Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, or Frank Kaminsky… or selecting Nicholson at #19.

His position was picking Hezonja over Booker, not the names you listed. That’s disingenuous on your part.

The difference between whiffing on Hezonja over Booker and Bamba over SGA is that Booker actually lobbied the FO to be drafted to Orlando, and he came from their favourite talent pool in Michigan.

But yeah, I can get behind the Bamba bust being a much worse move than Nicholson. Same with Isaac over Donovan Mitchell (or a trade to also get DM), Cole over Maxey, no attempt to trade up for Haliburton, etc. Those were all my preferred picks for those drafts and I wish we’d made those moves.

WITHIN CONTEXT the pick made no sense. Vucevic played a zillion minutes and they had no intention of pulling the plug on the roster until AG called it quits. Mario was called a scorer to a team with bad wings and guards.

Within context the pick made sense. Bamba was a highly regarded prospect that draft. Vuc was yet to become an allstar, and the combo of his contract year and the insult of drafting his replacement lit a fuse under his arse and got him to carry the Magic back to the playoffs that same season. What did you want WeHam to do? Bench an Allstar? Trade his expiring contract for pennies on the dollar? Trade him on draft night when his stock was at his lowest and then watch him become an Allstar on another team - which you’d probably then also hold against WeHam. They could’ve/should’ve traded Bamba sooner once they knew they were re-signing Vuc, so that was probably the failure in that whole chapter.

Jett pick made no sense. Even if you picked players mocked in the range of #11 you’d still land for a guy heralded as a volume shooter. They did neither. They selected a reach AND he didn’t pan out as opposed to picking a mocked player that didn’t and was considered literally the same archetype.

I’m not defending the Jett pick, even though I’m not as down on him as you. I don’t see Dick or Hawkins as franchise changing talents, but yeah they should’ve traded back to take him and gained some extra value.

Thats what I’m saying here. Sure, you could be “that guy”and run through every draft saying “yeah they didn’t take X” that’s not what I’m doing. Indecision for years, no trades for multiple seasons, holding onto players until value reaches zero like Fultz, etc etc. it’s cumulative.

That’s the point you’re missing. You only consider the negatives to be cumulative and you fail to acknowledge how they’ve responded to their own missteps and still been able to correct course and get the team back to a team now regarded as one of the best in the East (on paper).

Where did they start? They took over a team that was a borderline playoff team. After one wasted season of evaluation the team was back into the playoffs for the next 2 seasons. In that time they traded for the former #1 pick who would’ve also addressed a weakness in the team - but he couldn’t be rehabilitated.

So they fielded a playoff team for 2/3 years. Then the team reached its ceiling, they blew it up, and 2.5 seasons later they were back in the playoffs as the 5th seed.

1 down year, 2 playoff years. Then 2.5 down years, 2 playoff years and a path to actual contention.

Could they have done better? Sure. But what’s the case study for how they should’ve handled it? Remember, Hennigan was the guy who gave away the pieces which eventually landed SGA for OKC. Hennigan brought in JV and Skiles and Vogel - all of whom couldn’t get the most out of the roster.

[pepe1991]

The fact you don't even have the Bamba pick, #6 in a stacked draft, on this list means you are a disingenuous idiot.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Stacked? The only guys taken after Bamba of any consequence are:

SGA (picked 11th)
Mikal Bridges (picked 10th)
MPJ (picked 14th, had back problems and is also terribly overrated)
Anfernee Simons (picked 24th).
Brunson (picked in the 2nd round)

It was stacked before the 6th pick with Luka, Trae and JJJr, but even they were overlooked for Ayton and Bagley at the top 2 slots. But those choices weren’t available to us. Your criticism of Jett was that he was taken well before he was mocked. Well, Bamba was consistently mocked in the top 6. The pick was a bust, but his profile was worth the gamble to many scouts and commentators.

Stop slinging insults just because people disagree with you. What’s up with that?

I don't agree with insults, that goes without saying.

And full disclaimer * i don't want to make important who was picked player and traded, because, imo, most trades are arranged before, so teams just tell each other who to draft in order to make trade * ( it won't matter that much but still, several players are included in such transactions below)
Second disclaimer, i won't use power of 2025 knowledge to call out for players drafted 40 spots after pick ( like Jokić instead of Payton), rather stay several spots below actual pick ( all within 10-ish range to be as objective as i can).

But from basketball POV, 2017 and 2018 were loaded drafted where Magic left so much talent on board.


2017.
Magic had:
- 6th overall pick
- 25th overall pick
- 33rd pick
- 35th pick


Wetlman's moves:
with 6th pick he drafted Isaac.

Alternatives for Isaac:
- all star Lauri Markannen at 7th
- Malik Monk at 11
- top 15 nba player / all star / all nba player Donovan Mitchell at 13
- multi level all star / all defense nba guy / second best player on team that went to finals Bam Adebayo at 14.

+ reaches that turned into better players than Isaac: All star Jarret Allen at 22# and OG Anunoby at 23# ( one of best two way wings in nba, top 40-ish player in nba )

25th pick - Magic trade out pick for top 20 protected pick from OKC to 76ers in 2020. If pick isn't converted by 2022 it becomes two second round picks

This pick will later be returned to 76ers for Fultz. And become Tyreese Maxey.

Weltman makes famous "flattened out talent " at 25th.

Alternatives for giving up pick:
- Kyle Kuzma at 27#
- Tony Bradley at 28#
- Derrick White at 29 #
- Josh Hart at 30#

33rd pick- Magic select Wes Iwundu and trade out 35th pick to Grizzlies.

Iwundu was scrub. Not much to add really.

35th pick turned into 46th pick ( Tucker) but also got traded in 2019- for money and 2020 pick that landed at 58 in 2020. Definition of wasting asset.

Alternatives with both picks:

- Jordan Bell at 38#
- Thomas Bryant at 42#
- Isaiah Hartenstein at 43#
- Dillion Brooks at 45#
- Monte Morris at 55#


Since i used several articles to go back and actually evaluate from 2017 POV those drafts, to have most objective opinion possible, this is what Aaron Goldstone wrote on OPP post 2017 draft about second round usage

Apparently, Weltman and Hammond were not enamored by the talent that was available to Orlando at 25. I surely felt prospects such as Semi Ojeleye (now a Celtic), Derrick White (now a Spur), Jordan Bell (now a Warrior), Juwan Evans (now a Clipper), and Josh Hart (now a Laker) could have been picked in that range and ultimately would have helped Orlando right now...
Finally, Orlando again chose to deal another pick away, sending the 35th pick to Memphis for a future second round selection. Again, the timing was a little frustrating with this move. This deal would have always been there at any point last night, so why did they announce the trade so early? They must have had some guys on some kind of board in their war room? Couldn’t they have waited to see if anyone fell to them? As it turned out, Jonah Bolden (another stash option), Semi Ojeleye, Jordan Bell (HOW DID THE NBA LET HIM GET ON THE WARRIORS?!), Juwan Evans, Damyean Dotson, Dillon Brooks, Alec Peters, Monte Morris, etc. were still on the board at no. 35. Wouldn’t it have been more ideal to wait to see if these guys ultimately fell? Instead, another punt.

So yea... it's not really hindsight. He gave Magic draft night -C


Orlando Magic Daily gave draft night -B , writing this.

What I did not like is how the Magic punted on their other picks. While they certainly could not bring four rookies to training camp next year, there should have been some opportunity to move up or even the chance to move back some in addition to retaining future assets. There were players I personally liked at 25 and 35.

Overall, most people were fine with Isaac, but with hindsight we can say he wasn't right choice. But most people hated what Weltman was doing with other picks. Magic turned 1 first round pick and 2 high second round picks into Wes Iwundu.


2018.
Magic had:
- 6th overall pick
-35th pick
-41st pick

Weltman moves:

- with 6th overall pick Magic select Mo Bamba

Alternatives:
- Wendell Carter at 7#
- Collin Sexton at 8#
- all defensive nba first team Mikal Bridges
- best player in the world , Shai Gilgeous-Alexander at 11
- Miles Bridges at 12
- Michael Porter jr at 15

But also: Donte DiVincenzo (17), Graysoon Allen (21), Simons (24), Robert Williams (27- all nba second def. team).... not gonna include him down the line there was Jalen Brunson all the way at 33.


- 35th pick - Magic select Melvin Frazier
Alternatives:
- Michell Robinson at 35# ( this one really hurts since they got better C in second round than Magic at 6th )
- Gary Trent jr at 36#

41st pick - selected Jarred Vanderbilt- traded for rights for Justin Jackson (43rd pick) and second round pick in 2019

I have to be honest, i lost track of that second round pick gained, it's probably Cody Martin picked at 36th ( but we traded out that as well ).

Regardless, Jarred Vanderbilt will go to have nba career. Justin Jackson will get hurt after draft, during summer and never step foot in nba.

Alternatives:
- keeping Jarred Vanderbilt
- Bruce Brown at 42
- De'Anthony Melton at 46
- Shake Milton at 54

Sticking to OPP and Goldstone to keep objectivity and be in 2018, not hindsight POV to 2025.

The Magic, who many presumed would use at least one of their second round picks to address the point guard position, saw a run of point guards they were targeting get selected right before their pick (Okobo: 31st, Carter: 32nd, Brunson: 33rd, Graham: 34th).

This is where I think the draft got away from the Magic just a bit. Packaging the 35th and 41st picks could have put the Magic in a position to move up a few spots and grab one of these lead guards. The Magic even brought both Jevon Carter and Devonte’ Graham in to Orlando for individual workouts during the pre-draft process.

Disclaimer: Devonte Graham was traded for two second round picks.



And lot of times here it's mentioned that SGA is hindsight and was "reach".

So i went to see mocks leading into 2018 to see where he was actually mocked, prior draft.
The Ringer- 8th
The draft Room - 6th ( to us )

Bleacher Report -11
NBA. com- 11
ESPN- 8
Sport's illustrated- 11


When you put things in perspective, it is really hard to not be very harsh about final outcome of 2017 and 2018 drafts.
Both drafts had incredible talent in positions where Magic drafted, and even more hidden gems in positions Magic had later picks.

But in both drafts, including both lottery picks, Magic return was simply terrible.

From pile of players and pick ( 3 first round picks, 4 second round picks ) Magic only have 1 remaining guy in nba - Isaac, as bench player. It's especially painful knowing that one of their biggest current rivals entering next year - Knicks, have Brunson, MIkal , OG and Michel Robinson. And each and every single one of those players Magic could have had for free.

Bamba vs alternatives thing is even more painful if we all know witch game in particular tipped scale at draft night. 78th game of regular season vs Dallas. Loss ( for Dallas) that landed them eventually Luka Dončić ( or Trae Young , whatever ) and pushed Magic to 6th and landed them Bamba.




If my counting didn't fail me (and it might, i'm at my last day at work before vacation ) , Magic alternatives, ones who they didn't draft, include 8 players that already won championship playing in serious roles ( including finals MVP ). 4 of them were starters.


If you are making top 10 list, and you don't include two drafts where some of League's best players were at your reach, and you ended up with Isaac and Bamba, your list simply isn't very serious.
That list gets even more silly when random 19# Nicholson pops. Between his pick and end of first round only nba players that even had career are Evan Fournier and Mason Plumlee.
In stark contrast of 2019 draft and Okeke pick, where guys left on a table, between him and end of first round are still valid contributors : NAW; Ty Jerome, Keldon Johnson, Kevin Porter, Goga, Brandon Clarke , Jordan Poole ( regardless of my personal opinion of him).


Again, i'm anti-personal attacks. it's just basketball forum and should be fun, or at least polite.

And my God this is long post

Anyway that's my last deep dive into 2017 and 2018. it was terrible back to back year for Magic fruitless (half as**ed) tanking.

[Bensational]

I’m not defending Eyriq’s list, mine was different for a reason, and I had very different preferences for both the 17 and 18 draft. But -

17 Draft:
Lauri - I wanted Lauri, but let’s remember that he looked like a bust in Chicago and was an afterthought in the DM trade. He don’t start living up to his potential and draft rank until his 6th season on his 3rd team.

Monk - again, wasn’t until his 5th season and 2nd team that he started looking decent. It wasn’t until his 6th season and 3rd team he looked good.

If the Magic had taken either of the above and they’d performed just as bad in their first 4 seasons for us fans would be just as livid and criticising the choices. But in those same 4 years Isaac had actually proven to be a game changing defensive player. In 2019-20 he was one of only 3 players to average over 1spg and 2bpg, along with AD and Nurkic. Isaac’s injury really ruined the kind of impact and career he could have had.

And Mitchell - he was drafted by the Nuggets, and then traded for Tyler Lyndon and Trey Lyles. Even a great drafting team like the Nuggets can blow a pick. They could’ve had Jokic, Murray and Mitchell.


- Bamba was a consensus top 6 ranked prospect. At that time everyone in the league wanted a Porzingis-like unicorn. JJJr got picked #4 because of a comparable profile. 7ft, 7’10 wingspan, 3pt shooter, intellectually smart. If a similar prospect emerged in an upcoming draft they’d also get drafted high. In fact, a couple have and they went #1 and #2 in the two drafts prior to this one, but they happened to be worth it.

Yeah, he was a bust. Yeah, his value was wasted once the team knew they were all-in on Vuc. Yeah, that wasted opportunity probably deserves to be in the top 10. I probably need to update my list to factor it in.

[pepe1991]

In moment Magic drafted Bamba Magic PG rotation was:
DJ Augustin

During season Magic played:
Troy Caupain ( 4 NBA games in his life, all 4 for Magic)
Isaiah Briscoe (39 NBA games in his life, all 39 for Magic)
Jerian Grant (279 nba games, after Magic played in 6 games in nba)
MCW (395 NBA games in his life, never played for anybody after Magic)

So Poker of 4 bums combined 6 nba games post Magic.



Magic C position on draft night:
Nikola Vučević - still in nba
Biyombo - was in nba until this summer
Birch- was in nba until summer of 2024

So you drafted a guy who was out of nba sooner than 3 players than he supposed to replace ?

Brilliant. Just f+++ing brilliant.

Again, it's not just issue of Bamba being bust on it's own. It's ignoring PG position all together (for years) and stock piling players on position you don't need.
Gordon , Vuc, Bamba and isaac had no business being on same roster. It's 4 players for 2 spots. Isaac and Bamba even on their own, had no business being together on same roster, as their weaknesses overlap too much for modern era. It's like pairing Chris Paul with Brunson. You can only have one midget on floor (at most ). In same sense you can only have 1 player providing virtually no scoring, dribbling, passing, screening or playing off ball.
Not two.

Once Bamba was selected Vuc and Isaac should already be traded. Somebody simply had to be moved. Instead, Magic draft Bamba 6th but in same time:
- Iwundu plays more MPG and games than Bamba
- Birch plays more games than Bamba

In second year, Birch is now even starting in place of Bamba when Vuc is out, Gordon is wasted at SF, All Faruq Aminu is playing more than Bamba.

It was complete lunacy. it was one of worst roster malpractices i've seen, only matched with Noel, Embiid and Okaford being drafted in 3peat of draft.

I have my own theory what really happened in months post Bamba draft. But that's just theory and not what actually happened so it's irrelevant and ofc i can't prove it.