Appreciating Some Older Players

[penbeast0]

Yeah, if you can get a two-handed grip on it and look downcourt, lots of stuff opens up, for sure.

And yeah, Unseld was about as immovable and unforgiving as it gets setting a screen.

Yeah, another thing that we had drills on was two handed rebounding. Guys wanted to one hand it because it looks cooler.

[tsherkin]

Yeah, if you can get a two-handed grip on it and look downcourt, lots of stuff opens up, for sure.

And yeah, Unseld was about as immovable and unforgiving as it gets setting a screen.

Yeah, another thing that we had drills on was two handed rebounding. Guys wanted to one hand it because it looks cooler.

You can also get better extension to reach for it. But much more control with two hands, for sure.

[Doctor MJ]

Yeah, if you can get a two-handed grip on it and look downcourt, lots of stuff opens up, for sure.

And yeah, Unseld was about as immovable and unforgiving as it gets setting a screen.

Yeah, another thing that we had drills on was two handed rebounding. Guys wanted to one hand it because it looks cooler.

You can also get better extension to reach for it. But much more control with two hands, for sure.

But if you've got giant hands, you can do a lot with one hand, so shout out to the former Globetrotters - who focused on big hands more than anyone since, when instead the NBA should have been learning:

Sweetwater Clifton
Wilt Chamberlain
Connie Hawkins

[kcktiny]

Larry Smith.

Golden State Warriors PF in the 80s, very good defensive player, outstanding offensive rebounder for being just 6-8 and 225/230 lb. Dennis Rodman-lite.

Nickname was "Mr. Mean".

Watch on YouTube

[penbeast0]

World B Free; underappreciated even in his own day.

[migya]

I always liked Dale Ellis, guy was the best three-point shooter in NBA history before Reggie and Ray Allen emerged, and he was very durable despite dealing with substance abuse and a really bad DUI accident. Wish he could have played with better contenders during his career.

Dale Ellis was awesome.

Had a couple big scoring seasons for the Sonics in the late 80s, made an AS team, one appearance on the All-NBA 3rd team. Was a 3.2 3PA/g player (on 40.2% shooting) BEFORE the pulled-in line... and once hilariously led the league in 3PA/g with 2.4, back in 1986. Smashed it for Denver after they pulled in the line, then led the league in 3P% the year after they pushed it back out in 98, shooting 46.4% on 3.5 3PA/g. Was in the 6MOY race that year, back with the Sonics.


Big shame he wasn't on the 96 team for Seattle; I think that might have made a large difference. They'd traded him for Ricky Pierce back in 91. Then they traded back for him in 97 (early October ahead of the 97-98 season) for Greg Graham, Steve Scheffler, and the 2nd rounders which turned into Ryan Bowen and Francisco Elson. Then they hilariously traded him away again in the deal which acquired Horace Grant for them. Ricky Pierce played like 2.5 seasons for them... and then they traded him for Byron Houston and Sarunas Marciulionis, the latter of whom played a limp, low-volume 66-game season for them.

So...

Dale Ellis indeed was great and somewhat a pioneer with the three point shooting. Ricky Pierce was an even better player and the best player for the Sonics from 1991-1993. Marciulionis himself was very good and just faded too fast after his 93-94 injury. Wished the Warriors had kept him and traded Richmond for a proven big instead.

[migya]

Larry Smith.

Golden State Warriors PF in the 80s, very good defensive player, outstanding offensive rebounder for being just 6-8 and 225/230 lb. Dennis Rodman-lite.

Nickname was "Mr. Mean".

Watch on YouTube

Great blue collar player and a great 80s Warrior. Him and Thurmond in their prime together would be a sight to see.

[migya]

Nate Archibald had one of the best peaks among PGs. Lead the nba in points and assists, has never been done by anyone else.

[70sFan]

I used to assume Richie Guerin had good stats bad team type of flaws based on the Knicks track record being horrible, but after reading more, his intangibles sound like a winning guy. He played defense, he was physical and played super hard, he was serious no nonsense type of guy, which seems like it's why he became player coach on the Hawks. I think he just got boned be being on a crud team and possibly some teammates like Sears or Naulls must not have been impactful or the mix not being right.

Guerin also looks very good on the limited tape we have. Good ball-handler, great range, solid driver, tough man defender. Just a very good all-around player.

The Knicks problem was mostly about bigmen absence and little depth.

I also say this again, but with open archives we could have a lot prime Guerin games, because the Knicks has a massive collection of silent tapes from that era. I only have a few of them (2 for Guerin), but I know that dozens exist. Such a shame...

[jalengreen]

Wasn’t just the All-Star appearance for rookie Alvan Adams. That was the season the Suns went on the improbable Finals run, beating the defending champs Warriors in 7 (the series where Barry allegedly sabotaged his team in G7) and losing to Boston in 6 (included the triple OT G6: “The Greatest Game Ever Played”). Big Finals for Adams too, he dropped 33 to lead all scorers in a G3 win.

2nd leading scorer, leading assister as a rookie on a Finals team is wild lol. Lowkey one of the coolest rookie seasons in league history

[AStark1991]

I'll give some love to the late great Dennis Johnson, who I firmly believe is the all-time greatest defender at the guard position. His impact on that end of the floor during his peak years as a defender (1978-1981) was absolutely phenomenal. 1978 was David “Skywalker” Thompson’s best season and DJ put the clamps on him in the Western Finals and also went on to set NBA Finals records which still stand to this day for both most blocks in a game by a guard with 7 and most blocks in a series by a guard with 17. Then in 1979 his defense was a major factor in why he was Finals MVP, recording 9 steals and 11 blocks in 5 games. And in both 1980 and 1981 he received the most votes for NBA All-Defensive Team while also finishing top 10 in MVP voting (5th in 1980, 8th in 1981) It’s also very likely that he would have had a DPOY on his resume if the award existed during that time frame, as his teams were also top 3 in the league in defensive rating every year during that span, including first place finishes in both 1979 and 1981. In addition to Larry Bird calling him the best player he ever played with, both Magic Johnson and George “Iceman” Gervin have been quoted as saying that DJ was the toughest defender they ever faced. His defense on Magic in the 1984 Finals was another career highlight. All in all, he was selected to the All-Defensive Team 9 seasons in a row (1979-1987) with 6 of them being First Team selections.

[tsherkin]

I should toss John Stockton in here.

I often find myself on the opposing side of conversations and comparisons involving him, but I do think he was a wonderful player. An absolutely maximized dude for his era, as it happens. Could shoot, great playmaker, tough bastard. Iron man. One of the top off-hand passers I've ever seen. If he could get his J falling, he could be a dangerous scorer. He didn't really get north of 30 but he'd be grinding you, looking for every opportunity to break down a D and make a shot for someone else. I get after him about low shooting volume and Rondo Assists and stuff, but like, he was an ultimate expression of The Team Guy. Did what was asked of him, didn't break the system, didn't cause his coach grief.

Excellent player. All-time great.

[PistolPeteJR]

Where's the Dana Barros love? Imagine him in this era. Back in '95, the only season he averaged more than 31mpg (40.5mpg, which was nuts), 49/46/90 splits on 5.2 3PA/g.

[tsherkin]

Where's the Dana Barros love? Imagine him in this era. Back in '95, the only season he averaged more than 31mpg (40.5mpg, which was nuts), 49/46/90 splits on 5.2 3PA/g.

I wonder how many of those were legit 3s...

[tsherkin]

Other fun candidates to discuss:

Sidney Moncrief
Jack Sikma
Adrian Dantley (he gets crapped on a lot, but he was a brilliant scorer, and much less of the issue people remember when he was younger)
Bob McAdoo
Jerry Lucas
David Thompson (short career, but 2nd in the MVP vote as a rookie in the ABA, 3rd in his 4th season which was in the NBA; Skywalker)
Mark Aguirre
Alex English
Bernard King

[migya]

Paul Pressey another gem. One of the best defenders of the 80s and part of the juggernaut Bucks that never made it over the top but were close often.

[tsherkin]

Paul Pressey another gem. One of the best defenders of the 80s and part of the juggernaut Bucks that never made it over the top but were close often.

Oooh, good one!

Nellie in his early "bigger ball-handlers/playmakers" model. 85-89, very interesting player!

[TrueLAfan]

Always love to read about Wes and hear from penbeast0 and tsherkin. I have another name that will be a complete mystery to a lot of people. Here's the run down:

Three All-NBA first teams, an NBA title, an ABA MVP, then a 63% winning percentage as a coach with 3 finals and another NBA title.

…before he was 42.

[f4p]

i've never seen Jeff Ruland play and i didn't even know he existed until someone mentioned him in a thread a few weeks back. a little before my time and he played in the 80's on a team that wasn't boston or LA, so the NBA has probably destroyed all footage of him. but man, he had a little 2 year prime according to the numbers. 19/11 in 1983. 22/12 (!) with 4 apg and 58% FG in 1984. those are fairly dominant numbers. did add a ghastly 4.6 TOV/g but still, for a guy who looks about as athletic as a bowl of oatmeal, pretty damn good.

and in his one prime playoff series, he went against the celtics and put up 24/13 with 8 apg. then he appears to have basically gotten injured and quickly fallen out of the league.

[f4p]

Always love to read about Wes and hear from penbeast0 and tsherkin. I have another name that will be a complete mystery to a lot of people. Here's the run down:

Three All-NBA first teams, an NBA title, an ABA MVP, then a 63% winning percentage as a coach with 3 finals and another NBA title.

…before he was 42.

feels like it must be the guy who coached the 1983 76ers.