Are the lakers underrated?

[Slimjimzv]

The Lakers haven't been underrated a single day in their existence.

[tsherkin]

This is a conclusion that lacks perspective. The reason the Lakers were the 3rd seed instead of the other teams you mentioned is because the Lakers were able to keep those teams beneath them down the stretch of the season when everyone was fighting for position. You're kind of dismissing it as chance

No, I didn't dismiss it as chance. I noted that they were about as good as a half-dozen other teams, which means their separation is only so meaningful. And they actually weren't significantly better with Luka. Now, they have some potential, but they still have a lot of questions. A LOT of questions. And they 100% aren't going to be better than a healthy OKC team, that should be startlingly clear.

So we'll see. Much depends on what version of Lebron we see, and how Ayton performs. Some of it depends on Luka. Some of it depends on things outside of LA entirely, like how Houston looks with a really good volume scorer in front of its defense.

The idea, though, that they are "underrated" is still a weird one, because most people are a little hesitant due to the sheer volume of questions around the team. That's normal, and valid.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

the general discourse is 6-10.
that's the benchmark.
nobody suggested title favorite

Your OP literally discusses that they should be contending for the top spot in the league, man. What do you think that implies for the postseason?

contending for the top spot = title favorite?
I do think they have a chance to get to the finals, probably 3rd after Denver and OKC.
That's not being the favorite.

[tsherkin]

I do think they have a chance to get to the finals, probably 3rd after Denver and OKC.

Very hard to envision at this time, without SIGNIFICANT change, and without big-time answers to questions which are still pending.

[manlisten]

This is a conclusion that lacks perspective. The reason the Lakers were the 3rd seed instead of the other teams you mentioned is because the Lakers were able to keep those teams beneath them down the stretch of the season when everyone was fighting for position. You're kind of dismissing it as chance

No, I didn't dismiss it as chance. I noted that they were about as good as a half-dozen other teams, which means their separation is only so meaningful.

You're attempting to trivialize it again. In the second half of the season when teams are gearing up for the playoffs and fighting for positioning, the Lakers were 11-2 against GSW/DEN/MIN/MEM/LAC/HOU. THAT'S why they were the 3rd seed. They weren't "as good" as those teams, they were flat out better and it reflected in the standings. You can act like it's not meaningful to earn HCA but that wouldn't be an honest take. It wasn't just a coin flip, the Lakers earned it by outperforming their competitors when playoff seeding was at stake.

[tsherkin]

You're attempting to trivialize it again. In the second half of the season when teams are gearing up for the playoffs and fighting for positioning, the Lakers were 11-2 against GSW/DEN/MIN/MEM/LAC/HOU. THAT'S why they were the 3rd seed. They weren't "as good" as those teams, they were flat out better and it reflected in the standings. You can actually like it's not meaningful to earn HCA but that wouldn't be an honest take. It wasn't just a coin flip, the Lakers earned it by outperforming their competitors when playoff seeding was at stake.

And again, there are still a lot of questions about the changes. And their record after the trade wasn't any kind of majorly interesting thing compared to their performance before. You are hyperfixating on the seeding, which really isn't my point. The point is that they won about as many games as a half-dozen different teams and didn't create any separation over the season. They were a 50-ish win team before and after the trade, which is right in a zone with a lot of other teams. And this upcoming year, there are a couple of them who got visibly better, which means there's no real guarantee that a team with as many questions circling around them will be as good as they were last year, let alone better, or competing for the top seed.

[mademan]

This is a conclusion that lacks perspective. The reason the Lakers were the 3rd seed instead of the other teams you mentioned is because the Lakers were able to keep those teams beneath them down the stretch of the season when everyone was fighting for position. You're kind of dismissing it as chance

No, I didn't dismiss it as chance. I noted that they were about as good as a half-dozen other teams, which means their separation is only so meaningful.

You're attempting to trivialize it again. In the second half of the season when teams are gearing up for the playoffs and fighting for positioning, the Lakers were 11-2 against GSW/DEN/MIN/MEM/LAC/HOU. THAT'S why they were the 3rd seed. They weren't "as good" as those teams, they were flat out better and it reflected in the standings. You can act like it's not meaningful to earn HCA but that wouldn't be an honest take. It wasn't just a coin flip, the Lakers earned it by outperforming their competitors when playoff seeding was at stake.

They ended up within 2 games of like 5 different teams. Nobody's trivializing anything, this is about projecting to the future, so when someone laughs off Lakers possibly being the 7 seed or something because of their seeding last year, bringing up how close they were to being the 7 seed (or even 8) is very valid. They were some random variance away from being that last year

[manlisten]

You're attempting to trivialize it again. In the second half of the season when teams are gearing up for the playoffs and fighting for positioning, the Lakers were 11-2 against GSW/DEN/MIN/MEM/LAC/HOU. THAT'S why they were the 3rd seed. They weren't "as good" as those teams, they were flat out better and it reflected in the standings. You can actually like it's not meaningful to earn HCA but that wouldn't be an honest take. It wasn't just a coin flip, the Lakers earned it by outperforming their competitors when playoff seeding was at stake.

And again, there are still a lot of questions about the changes. And their record after the trade wasn't any kind of majorly interesting thing compared to their performance before. You are hyperfixating on the seeding, which really isn't my point. The point is that they won about as many games as a half-dozen different teams and didn't create any separation over the season.

I think you're just refusing to concede that the Lakers were better than the competition down the stretch. You say it's not about seeding but then say they didn't create separation. They created separation by going 11-2 and earning the 3 seed. It's like you're implying that the other teams weren't trying to get home court advantage so it's not meaningful. And there's really no question about how much of an offensive upgrade Ayton is over Hayes. I don't think this team is built for the playoffs but they should be a top 4 seed again with adequate health.

[manlisten]

They ended up within 2 games of like 5 different teams. Nobody's trivializing anything, this is about projecting to the future, so when someone laughs off Lakers possibly being the 7 seed or something because of their seeding last year, bringing up how close they were to being the 7 seed (or even 8) is very valid. They were some random variance away from being that last year

Lol. Not gonna keep repeating myself but it wasn't "random variance" in the slightest. That's just an obtuse way of analyzing what really happened. It's like you're just looking at win totals and seeing they had the same amount of wins as the Clippers and completely ignoring that they beat the Clippers 3 times in the second half of the season. There's a reason they weren't the 7 seed.

[tsherkin]

I think you're just refusing to concede that the Lakers were better than the competition down the stretch. You say it's not about seeding but then say they didn't create separation. They created separation by going 11-2 and earning the 3 seed. It's like you're implying that the other teams weren't trying to get home court advantage so it's not meaningful. And there's really no question about how much of an offensive upgrade Ayton is over Hayes. I don't think this team is built for the playoffs but they should be a top 4 seed again with adequate health.

Yeah, it's possible that they will be a top-4 seed. It's unlikely that they will be a top-2 seed and there's a reasonably good chance they'll be more like 5th or 6th. Lower than that seems very unlikely unless there is a very large drop-off from Lebron, or major health issues for the team. They look poised to be less mediocre on D and they certainly look like their O will be stronger. They still have depth issues.

And your hyperfixation on 13 games notwithstanding, they were still 11-11 to close-out the season, which is not really the 11-2 you're discussing. They were strong in January and February (and the first 2 games of March). That's a little different than "down the stretch," though I suppose that might be an issue of semantics. That said, in THAT winning stretch (during which they were 17-3), they faced Washington, Charlotte, Philly, Washington again, Utah twice, Charlotte again, Portland, Dallas and the Pelicans, so they had hella soft competition for literally half of that stretch. They absolutely punked the Clippers 3x, which is funny, because they also lost to Utah and Charlotte.

It's not really that exciting. They are shaping up to be decent, but again, "underrated?" Eh. We'll have to wait and see how certain things play out. That's not underrated, that's "dealing with a bunch of questions hanging over the team."

[seren]

You can’t dismiss a team with a healthy Luka and maybe LeBron. I haven’t seen any predictions that doesn’t put Lakers as a playoff team so I don’t think they are underrated

[brackdan70]

I think it’s very optimistic or maybe delusional to think they have a shot at a top two seed.
If Luka can play in most of the games and Lebron reverses the aging process and everyone else over exceeds they will have a good shot at a top 4 seed.
OKC, Denver, Houston and Minnesota are all very clearly above them. LAC is right in the mix.
If things go off the rails a little the Lakers will be much lower.

[brackdan70]

They have 3 starter level players really….maybe 4.
Luka is a superstar if healthy.
But other than that the team doesn’t look that great on paper. If all the new additions really mesh and stay healthy then maybe they can make a little run.

[mademan]

They ended up within 2 games of like 5 different teams. Nobody's trivializing anything, this is about projecting to the future, so when someone laughs off Lakers possibly being the 7 seed or something because of their seeding last year, bringing up how close they were to being the 7 seed (or even 8) is very valid. They were some random variance away from being that last year

Lol. Not gonna keep repeating myself but it wasn't "random variance" in the slightest. That's just an obtuse way of analyzing what really happened. It's like you're just looking at win totals and seeing they had the same amount of wins as the Clippers and completely ignoring that they beat the Clippers 3 times in the second half of the season. There's a reason they weren't the 7 seed.

If you cant appreciate how close they were to 5 other teams this year and that the possibility exists that many of those teams can jump the Lakers next year, I dont know what we're discussing. They were clearly on the same level as those teams, and besides Memphis, none of them look to be worse next year. So saying they might finish 7th isnt laughable. I have them finishing 5th, but i can see as high as 2 (unlikely though) and as low as 7

[mademan]

They have 3 starter level players really….maybe 4.
Luka is a superstar if healthy.
But other than that the team doesn’t look that great on paper. If all the new additions really mesh and stay healthy then maybe they can make a little run.

Big question mark is Ayton who really has had a few (maybe 2) seasons as a top 10 C in the NBA. If the Lakers can get the finals Suns season Ayton, i have them as a real darkhorse, as unlikely as it is.

[manlisten]

If you cant appreciate how close they were to 5 other teams this year and that the possibility exists that many of those teams can jump the Lakers next year, I dont know what we're discussing. They were clearly on the same level as those teams

If they were on the same level then how did they go 11-2 against them when they were all fighting for seeding? Doesn't really make sense. That's how they separated themselves from the pack and earned the 3 seed. By being on a different level than them in head to head matchups. It's like saying a guy who finishes the 100 yard dash in 9 seconds is on the same level as someone who finishes in 9.8 seconds. And by the way, that's an entirely different conversation than what might happen next year.

[doogie_hauser]

If you cant appreciate how close they were to 5 other teams this year and that the possibility exists that many of those teams can jump the Lakers next year, I dont know what we're discussing. They were clearly on the same level as those teams

If they were on the same level then how did they go 11-2 against them when they were all fighting for seeding? Doesn't really make sense. That's how they separated themselves from the pack and earned the 3 seed. By being on a different level than them in head to head matchups. It's like saying a guy who finishes the 100 yard dash in 9 seconds is on the same level as someone who finishes in 9.8 seconds. And by the way, that's an entirely different conversation than what might happen next year.

That stateline that only matters is they lost 4-1 in thr first round to a 6th seed.

And Houston and Denver have significantly upgraded their roster.

The Lakers meanwhile lost a valuable rotation piece in DFS and only signed 2 buy out players.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

just saying, the over/under is like 48w.

[SlimShady83]

The Lakers meanwhile lost a valuable rotation piece in DFS and only signed 2 buy out players.

I'm shocked you haven't mentioned Reaves. haha.

I'm curious, Lakers lost DFS, sure sad to see him go.

But Lakers gained = Smart, Laravia, Ayton and others, sorry i'm drinking atm lols, not thinking straight atm.

Not too many Laker fans IMO going to be worried about losing DFS. great addition too our team, but he won't be missed and while I think our team is set, I'm starting to think 1 more move is coming b4 the season, something we don't see coming. If not we don't do it now, trade deadline time for sure.

[jkvonny]

just saying, the over/under is like 48w.

Whats the O/U win total for the LA Clippers?