Top 10 Worst Moves Post Dwight

[VFX]

The draft is just 1 element of the job.

Hennigan missed picks in weaker drafts and used them to improve the team with shortsighted trades. The AG/EP draft prioritized everything except scoring the basketball. Moving up to select EP was a bad move. Top 10 over 13 years? Not sure. I’d argue selecting EP at all was a boldly bad move.

Weltman has missed more often later in the draft and failed to capitalize entirely with later picks. He nailed 2 total drafts at the very top and came out average with Isaac depending on how you want to grade longevity over better talent. The Okeke draft over the obvious NAW pick was bad enough due to the galaxy brained idea that he negotiated injury pay to a team needing to come away with talent. The 2020 roster was bad.

You can do this with every GM. Go down a list of guys they didn’t select. It’s not particularly helpful only insofar as saying how often they pick busts on talent evaluation relative to team needs.

Trades here are the bigger issue. Failing to move medium valued players for decent return, before they become zero value, is what a GM like Presti wouldn’t do. Taking more low value risk later in drafts or moving above marginal talent for late firsts are what good GMs do in rebuilds.

Hennigan was a bad GM and that’s why he isn’t one anymore. However, the ongoing agenda here is what leads me to toss a soft insult. Lottery pick Bamba with 10 other better options that made more sense on paper was a top 10 bad decision. That guy was an obvious project even if you took everything else out of the equation. Markelle Fultz trade, extension, and walking for nothing for YEARS was a top 10 bad decision.

Those are facts objectively for most people that don’t have some bizarre agenda at hand. So yeah, if you want to spew agenda and tell me I’m insane for believing something patently true that happens to hurt your feelings, then I’m not going to be kind.

I argued with Ben and others here for years that Fultz was bad damaged goods and that Orlando should have been finding a point guard to ease their long term draft investments into easier basketball, I heard every argument otherwise. Doesn’t matter. Post a list of Andrew Nicholson draft picks and Channing Frye signings because it wasn’t under Weltman.

[eyriq]

The draft is just 1 element of the job.

Hennigan missed picks in weaker drafts and used them to improve the team with shortsighted trades. The AG/EP draft prioritized everything except scoring the basketball. Moving up to select EP was a bad move. Top 10 over 13 years? Not sure. I’d argue selecting EP at all was a boldly bad move.

Weltman has missed more often later in the draft and failed to capitalize entirely with later picks. He nailed 2 total drafts at the very top and came out average with Isaac depending on how you want to grade longevity over better talent. The Okeke draft over the obvious NAW pick was bad enough due to the galaxy brained idea that he negotiated injury pay to a team needing to come away with talent. The 2020 roster was bad.

You can do this with every GM. Go down a list of guys they didn’t select. It’s not particularly helpful only insofar as saying how often they pick busts on talent evaluation relative to team needs.

Trades here are the bigger issue. Failing to move medium valued players for decent return, before they become zero value, is what a GM like Presti wouldn’t do. Taking more low value risk later in drafts or moving above marginal talent for late firsts are what good GMs do in rebuilds.

Hennigan was a bad GM and that’s why he isn’t one anymore. However, the ongoing agenda here is what leads me to toss a soft insult. Lottery pick Bamba with 10 other better options that made more sense on paper was a top 10 bad decision. That guy was an obvious project even if you took everything else out of the equation. Markelle Fultz trade, extension, and walking for nothing for YEARS was a top 10 bad decision.

Those are facts objectively for most people that don’t have some bizarre agenda at hand. So yeah, if you want to spew agenda and tell me I’m insane for believing something patently true that happens to hurt your feelings, then I’m not going to be kind.

I argued with Ben and others here for years that Fultz was bad damaged goods and that Orlando should have been finding a point guard to ease their long term draft investments into easier basketball, I heard every argument otherwise. Doesn’t matter. Post a list of Andrew Nicholson draft picks and Channing Frye signings because it wasn’t under Weltman.

Those moves matter more because they wrecked a rebuild. Hennigan didn’t learn or adjust, he just kept making the same bad calls. The list focuses on decisions that actually set the franchise back, not just ones that didn’t pan out.

Weltman’s made mistakes too. He leaned too hard on wingspan early and whiffed on some drafts. But he adjusted, and the rebuild worked. Two franchise guys, a legit core, real progress. :shrugs:

[JoshuaPotter]

As much as I like AB. I fear we did not do so well in that draft. This is the last year before contract discussions start to arise. I am not saying both picks were a bust yet, but it isn't looking good when you consider capital of investment.

This latest idea that Weltman will pick his man regardless of pick # is kinda absurd and I am not sure I like where it is headed in terms of using investments wisely. We sold a bit of what remains on the farms on 2 players that I guess he was super high on. A gambit I am hoping pays off.

[Bensational]

Trades here are the bigger issue. Failing to move medium valued players for decent return, before they become zero value, is what a GM like Presti wouldn’t do. Taking more low value risk later in drafts or moving above marginal talent for late firsts are what good GMs do in rebuilds.

Hennigan was a bad GM and that’s why he isn’t one anymore. However, the ongoing agenda here is what leads me to toss a soft insult. Lottery pick Bamba with 10 other better options that made more sense on paper was a top 10 bad decision. That guy was an obvious project even if you took everything else out of the equation. Markelle Fultz trade, extension, and walking for nothing for YEARS was a top 10 bad decision.

Those are facts objectively for most people that don’t have some bizarre agenda at hand. So yeah, if you want to spew agenda and tell me I’m insane for believing something patently true that happens to hurt your feelings, then I’m not going to be kind.

I argued with Ben and others here for years that Fultz was bad damaged goods and that Orlando should have been finding a point guard to ease their long term draft investments into easier basketball, I heard every argument otherwise. Doesn’t matter. Post a list of Andrew Nicholson draft picks and Channing Frye signings because it wasn’t under Weltman.

What agenda? It's a discussion thread - write up your own top 10 and add it to the discussion. And I don't know if you should be telling people they've got hurt feelings when a "top 10 list" thread has got you so worked up you're throwing insults. Nobody told you you're insane. Pull your head in dude.


SLIGHT TANGENT -
A good thought experiment is to try and identify who are the teams who have “made better deals” than the Magic FO during Weltman’s 8 year tenure? I'm going to only list the two finalists for each of the last 8 seasons, since those are the teams with who made the moves which mattered in the grand scheme of things.

2017 and 2018 finals were GSW and Cleveland, both built on rosters which preceded him.

In 2019 Toronto went all in for one year of Kawhi and got a championship from it. GSW on their 5th straight finals appearance.

2020 had LeBron and AD team up in a deal that only the Lakers could pull off. Miami landed Butler who took them from a late lottery team to the finals (which he’d do twice).

2021 saw Giannis finally get to the finals and get a ring - after 9 years, starting when the Magic first started rebuilding with Hennigan. Phoenix made the finals off the back of the Chris Paul renaissance and Booker (Hennigan miss), after 10 years of being in the lottery.

2022 saw GSW return to the finals. Boston made the finals for the first time with Tatum and Brown, and this is probably the first Weltman-era roster was bearing early fruits.

2023 was Denver and Miami. This was 9 years after they had drafted Jokic in the same year AG was drafted. Miami are another example of a team who made thrifty moves during Weltman’s tenure to get faster results than him.

2024 was Boston getting a ring, and they blew that team up this offseason. Dallas made the finals with Luka for the first time, and they blew that team up last season.

2025 was another two Weltman-era rosters seeing faster results than he has.

But where are they now?

GSW - now has Butler, but they’re racing the clock with Curry’s age.
Cleveland - made a bunch of moves post LeBron, including a big swing on Donovan Mitchell. They’ve yet to get past the 2nd round.
Toronto - They’ve had 6 years of slow decline and gradual rebuild since.
Miami - set to be a tanker and lottery team.
Milwaukee - went all in on Lillard, now desperately hoping to be able to keep Giannis.
Phoenix - went all in on Durant, blew the team up this summer.
Boston - blew the team up this summer.
Denver - still trying to get back to the finals. Only just made their first big trade since they acquired Gordon.
Dallas - blew the team up last season.
Indiana - lost Turner to FA. Already lost Hali for the season.
OKC - defending champs

What other teams made big deals over that time frame? Brooklyn spent a ton on Durant, Kyrie, Harden, Simmons - all for nought. Philly went through Simmons, Butler, Paul George - all for nought. New York spent a ton on Brunson, Bridges, OG and KAT - all for nought (so far). Houston have shared the same timeline as the Magic but made more aggressive moves - they've yet to get out of the first round, just like the Magic.

Plenty of alternative pathways amongst those teams. Call me crazy, but I'm still happy with how the Magic are poised for the future.

[VFX]

Trades here are the bigger issue. Failing to move medium valued players for decent return, before they become zero value, is what a GM like Presti wouldn’t do. Taking more low value risk later in drafts or moving above marginal talent for late firsts are what good GMs do in rebuilds.

Hennigan was a bad GM and that’s why he isn’t one anymore. However, the ongoing agenda here is what leads me to toss a soft insult. Lottery pick Bamba with 10 other better options that made more sense on paper was a top 10 bad decision. That guy was an obvious project even if you took everything else out of the equation. Markelle Fultz trade, extension, and walking for nothing for YEARS was a top 10 bad decision.

Those are facts objectively for most people that don’t have some bizarre agenda at hand. So yeah, if you want to spew agenda and tell me I’m insane for believing something patently true that happens to hurt your feelings, then I’m not going to be kind.

I argued with Ben and others here for years that Fultz was bad damaged goods and that Orlando should have been finding a point guard to ease their long term draft investments into easier basketball, I heard every argument otherwise. Doesn’t matter. Post a list of Andrew Nicholson draft picks and Channing Frye signings because it wasn’t under Weltman.

write up your own top 10 and add it to the discussion..

No.

I’ve discussed this enough over the last 8-9 years. So much so that I’ve had people tell me to stfu in lighter terms.

That’s why this thread in particular is funny to me.

I know the takes people have had. I remember them. I don’t need to rehash this **** for the millionth time in a bait thread.

[Knightro]

Trades here are the bigger issue. Failing to move medium valued players for decent return, before they become zero value, is what a GM like Presti wouldn’t do. Taking more low value risk later in drafts or moving above marginal talent for late firsts are what good GMs do in rebuilds.

Hennigan was a bad GM and that’s why he isn’t one anymore. However, the ongoing agenda here is what leads me to toss a soft insult. Lottery pick Bamba with 10 other better options that made more sense on paper was a top 10 bad decision. That guy was an obvious project even if you took everything else out of the equation. Markelle Fultz trade, extension, and walking for nothing for YEARS was a top 10 bad decision.

Those are facts objectively for most people that don’t have some bizarre agenda at hand. So yeah, if you want to spew agenda and tell me I’m insane for believing something patently true that happens to hurt your feelings, then I’m not going to be kind.

I argued with Ben and others here for years that Fultz was bad damaged goods and that Orlando should have been finding a point guard to ease their long term draft investments into easier basketball, I heard every argument otherwise. Doesn’t matter. Post a list of Andrew Nicholson draft picks and Channing Frye signings because it wasn’t under Weltman.

write up your own top 10 and add it to the discussion..

No.

I’ve discussed this enough over the last 8-9 years. So much so that I’ve had people tell me to stfu in lighter terms.

That’s why this thread in particular is funny to me.

I know the takes people have had. I remember them. I don’t need to rehash this **** for the millionth time in a bait thread.

Posting 11 times in this thread will suffice, eh

[VFX]

write up your own top 10 and add it to the discussion..

No.

I’ve discussed this enough over the last 8-9 years. So much so that I’ve had people tell me to stfu in lighter terms.

That’s why this thread in particular is funny to me.

I know the takes people have had. I remember them. I don’t need to rehash this **** for the millionth time in a bait thread.

Posting 11 times in this thread will suffice, eh

I could not post at all. That works for me.

[Knightro]

No.

I’ve discussed this enough over the last 8-9 years. So much so that I’ve had people tell me to stfu in lighter terms.

That’s why this thread in particular is funny to me.

I know the takes people have had. I remember them. I don’t need to rehash this **** for the millionth time in a bait thread.

Posting 11 times in this thread will suffice, eh

I could not post at all. That works for me.

That’s entirely your prerogative.

Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to engage in activities you don’t find enjoyable, does it?

[eyriq]

Posting a bunch of Hennigan L’s isn’t really what we are talking about here while we feign the reason for this arbitrary list. It’s one posters agenda to celebrate where the roster is after nearly a decade of irrelevance under one FO.

Yeah and again you are missing now like 3-4 posts of explaining why the Bamba selection was worse than picking Mario instead of Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, or Frank Kaminsky… or selecting Nicholson at #19.

His position was picking Hezonja over Booker, not the names you listed. That’s disingenuous on your part.

The difference between whiffing on Hezonja over Booker and Bamba over SGA is that Booker actually lobbied the FO to be drafted to Orlando, and he came from their favourite talent pool in Michigan.

But yeah, I can get behind the Bamba bust being a much worse move than Nicholson. Same with Isaac over Donovan Mitchell (or a trade to also get DM), Cole over Maxey, no attempt to trade up for Haliburton, etc. Those were all my preferred picks for those drafts and I wish we’d made those moves.

WITHIN CONTEXT the pick made no sense. Vucevic played a zillion minutes and they had no intention of pulling the plug on the roster until AG called it quits. Mario was called a scorer to a team with bad wings and guards.

Within context the pick made sense. Bamba was a highly regarded prospect that draft. Vuc was yet to become an allstar, and the combo of his contract year and the insult of drafting his replacement lit a fuse under his arse and got him to carry the Magic back to the playoffs that same season. What did you want WeHam to do? Bench an Allstar? Trade his expiring contract for pennies on the dollar? Trade him on draft night when his stock was at his lowest and then watch him become an Allstar on another team - which you’d probably then also hold against WeHam. They could’ve/should’ve traded Bamba sooner once they knew they were re-signing Vuc, so that was probably the failure in that whole chapter.

Jett pick made no sense. Even if you picked players mocked in the range of #11 you’d still land for a guy heralded as a volume shooter. They did neither. They selected a reach AND he didn’t pan out as opposed to picking a mocked player that didn’t and was considered literally the same archetype.

I’m not defending the Jett pick, even though I’m not as down on him as you. I don’t see Dick or Hawkins as franchise changing talents, but yeah they should’ve traded back to take him and gained some extra value.

Thats what I’m saying here. Sure, you could be “that guy”and run through every draft saying “yeah they didn’t take X” that’s not what I’m doing. Indecision for years, no trades for multiple seasons, holding onto players until value reaches zero like Fultz, etc etc. it’s cumulative.

That’s the point you’re missing. You only consider the negatives to be cumulative and you fail to acknowledge how they’ve responded to their own missteps and still been able to correct course and get the team back to a team now regarded as one of the best in the East (on paper).

Where did they start? They took over a team that was a borderline playoff team. After one wasted season of evaluation the team was back into the playoffs for the next 2 seasons. In that time they traded for the former #1 pick who would’ve also addressed a weakness in the team - but he couldn’t be rehabilitated.

So they fielded a playoff team for 2/3 years. Then the team reached its ceiling, they blew it up, and 2.5 seasons later they were back in the playoffs as the 5th seed.

1 down year, 2 playoff years. Then 2.5 down years, 2 playoff years and a path to actual contention.

Could they have done better? Sure. But what’s the case study for how they should’ve handled it? Remember, Hennigan was the guy who gave away the pieces which eventually landed SGA for OKC. Hennigan brought in JV and Skiles and Vogel - all of whom couldn’t get the most out of the roster.

I need to hire you as my legal counsel because you laid out the case better than I could.

I honestly don’t get why the argument triggers people so much. Ranking a franchise’s worst moves is subjective by nature but I clearly laid out the criteria I was using. You offered a different lens, and others are free to do the same. My stance is simple: bad moves are bad because they destroy value and derail progress. That’s what gives them weight.

Weltman has made mistakes. He’s lost value on some picks, trades, and through inaction, no doubt. But he hasn’t derailed progress, in fact, he’s built real momentum. The Hennigan era, on the other hand, did both. Even smaller misses like Nicholson mattered because they were part of a larger pattern of failure that cratered the rebuild. That’s the difference.

I hated living through that stretch. This era has brought back some belief. Weltman’s not perfect, but he’s navigating the climb. Hennigan ran us straight into the ground. That’s why the list skews how it does.

[jezzerinho]

You know, I've had plenty to say about how this team has been run in the last 10 or so years.

But, while it might not be balanced to the optimum level, this years roster is too exciting to be wasting any more time on how we got here, "if only's" and "what ifs".

I just want to look forward now. For the first time since forever - I don't care about the past.

[paperboymafia]

just read the original post and looking the dates in which the things happened any my first thought was..."damn, its been that long since that?"....getting old