RGM GOAT Debate Thread (Part 3)

[Kawaii Leonard]

Stockton/Malone, Duncan/Manu/Ginobli, Dirks Mavs, Birds Celtics, Magics Lakers, Bad Boy Pistons, Bills Celtics, Thompson, Curry, Green….you actually dont think it was cool seeing these teams win year over year with the same core?

I believe we were discussing what a Dynasty means to you, and not if a team was “cool”. You’re naming off teams that completed the journey my friend (with the Jazz being the only exception), which is what we are pressing you about.

Edit: as for your post above, the fact that you have to cherry-pick (or worse for some other posters here), shows that the comparison is much closer than what the Jordan partisan fans incessantly try to pound into the sand. Some of them can’t even fathom that Lebron could be even in the conversation. That’s what grinds my gears as a fan of both, even though characters like michaelm can’t believe such an anomaly.

I don’t doubt at all that people can be a fan of both players. My doubt concerns whether you are such a fan, and whether you actually observed Jordan in his time. Having watched him contemporaneously in my own relative youth brings its own bias of course, but so does having watched LeBron in his prime in your youth but not Jordan.

You have posted basically a single phrase saying you consider Jordan to be the GOAT, but numerous posts, some quite voluminous, in support of LeBron and taking issue with those who favour Jordan.

What backwards thinking again. Just because I’ve been strong armed to back and forths with the likes of bledredwine, I didn’t watch Jordan in person or during his heyday?

Edit: as for your post above, the fact that you have to cherry-pick (or worse for some other posters here), shows that the comparison is much closer than what the Jordan partisan fans incessantly try to pound into the sand. Some of them can’t even fathom that Lebron could be even in the conversation. That’s what grinds my gears as a fan of both, even though characters like michaelm can’t believe such an anomaly.

Is what I wrote above that incomprehensible?

Yes, because I refute the words of bledredwine’s insanely inaccurate propaganda much like his signature and fabricated numbers, I have to show my partisanship to Jordan? How would that benefit my stance to claim that the two players are much closer in this comparison, and that Jordan doesn’t need to be glorified to the point of a deity for him to still be the goat? Like listen to yourself.. I know we’ve had our run-ins with warrior threads but you sure are difficult to level with.

[Kawaii Leonard]

Spoiler:

Last time i checked SERIES do not imply a single game. then posts 2 games where Jordan shot under 40%

85 playoffs series vs bucks


87 playoffs series vs celtics

Arguing semantics. Did you not process my initial argument? And now you resort to this, when there’s written proof of what was said in sequence. Follow the trail instead of quoting posts out of context and discourse to bicker. You continuously quote me and remove what I was replying to and displace them into posts pages later. I wonder why. What’s even more hilarious is bledredwine resorting to the same antics, quoting my post and completely lacking grade school comprehension, and you had to quote that to kick the dead horse again. And to what avail? How about you reply to my response instead of embarrassing him again. What is it with you Lebron haters and just ignoring replies? This goldfish phenomenon is fascinating.

No series/rounds have a whole other meaning then 1 game. Using semantics is just a cop out.

All within 5 post you go from talking about game 4&3 to series. As posts get quoted then the first posts are first to disappear from the chain. Dont expect people to go back and fact check all of your posts, just in case that you make a mistake and change your wording.

But i do see your point in the first post in the chain and wouldn't have made a challenge on it.

What is even your point? Any grade schooler can follow along the thread and realize what the points I was making about the ‘85 and ‘87 elim games. Games 4&3 back then meant, “with the season on the line”. Cmon. Stop derailing atp or reply to what I said to you instead man.

My point is that you going from "season on the line, Jordan shot 38% and 30% in the 1st round of the playoffs in ‘85 & ‘87" to "You’re right Jordan didn’t shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." first one being pretty vague on what you are talking about, the other implies Jordan shooting 30-38% in multible first round series... Keyword being series which implies to a series of games not 2 singular games.

So dont mention grade schooler and in the span of 3 posts completely change the word and meaning of your argument and then being angry that someone did not spend time to go through your posts to be certain of what you are trying to convey. That saves everyone a lot of time. hence this whole convo wouldnt have happen.

So 2 of those are series where he won a grand total of 1 game.



Jordan has a grand total of 1 series for his entire career where he shot under 40%.

Why are you straw manning the results of the finals over a comparison of efficiency between two players? Mind you the poster I was replying to specifically cherry-picked Finals performances (specifically Lebron’s blunder in 2011—which no one refuted) while we were discussing efficiency and if Lebron can match Jordan’s while scoring as much. He exceeded multiple times. And are we comparing players or all-time teams here? Next, you’re going to tell me that Jordan would’ve bested the 2018 Durant Warriors with the help of Love, JR Smith, George Hill, and Tristan Thompson? Please apply some context if you’re gonna have an angle like that.

the first one is the most lopsided final in history, they lost by an average of 14 points being efficient in that isnt really impressive, teams tend to relax when they are winning big. The other series wasnt really close either so that gives 2 of the efficient series are not as impressive as 41ppg on 51% fg or 31 on 56% (55.8% is 56% not 55% if you are rounding the numbers, you know grade school and all that ) and actually winning the series. 2-4% isnt really that much of a difference.

You continue to derail this thread over semantics. Surely this is a strike for baiting?

I’ll make a mental note for our special readers that "You're right Jordan didn't shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." isn’t enough when I already stated “with the season on the line” prior in response to a former reply on a similar matter (2010 ECSF g6), and make sure to add the words “elimination games” or “with the season on the line”, again and again for those still confused.

Strike issued for baiting, insults, backseat moderating etc etc

Because this is you 4th strike on the GB, you are now suspended from posting for at least 60 days. -b

[bledredwine]

Arguing semantics. Did you not process my initial argument? And now you resort to this, when there’s written proof of what was said in sequence. Follow the trail instead of quoting posts out of context and discourse to bicker. You continuously quote me and remove what I was replying to and displace them into posts pages later. I wonder why. What’s even more hilarious is bledredwine resorting to the same antics, quoting my post and completely lacking grade school comprehension, and you had to quote that to kick the dead horse again. And to what avail? How about you reply to my response instead of embarrassing him again. What is it with you Lebron haters and just ignoring replies? This goldfish phenomenon is fascinating.

No series/rounds have a whole other meaning then 1 game. Using semantics is just a cop out.

What is even your point? Any grade schooler can follow along the thread and realize what the points I was making about the ‘85 and ‘87 elim games. Games 4&3 back then meant, “with the season on the line”. Cmon. Stop derailing atp or reply to what I said to you instead man.

My point is that you going from "season on the line, Jordan shot 38% and 30% in the 1st round of the playoffs in ‘85 & ‘87" to "You’re right Jordan didn’t shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." first one being pretty vague on what you are talking about, the other implies Jordan shooting 30-38% in multible first round series... Keyword being series which implies to a series of games not 2 singular games.

So dont mention grade schooler and in the span of 3 posts completely change the word and meaning of your argument and then being angry that someone did not spend time to go through your posts to be certain of what you are trying to convey. That saves everyone a lot of time. hence this whole convo wouldnt have happen.

Why are you straw manning the results of the finals over a comparison of efficiency between two players? Mind you the poster I was replying to specifically cherry-picked Finals performances (specifically Lebron’s blunder in 2011—which no one refuted) while we were discussing efficiency and if Lebron can match Jordan’s while scoring as much. He exceeded multiple times. And are we comparing players or all-time teams here? Next, you’re going to tell me that Jordan would’ve bested the 2018 Durant Warriors with the help of Love, JR Smith, George Hill, and Tristan Thompson? Please apply some context if you’re gonna have an angle like that.

the first one is the most lopsided final in history, they lost by an average of 14 points being efficient in that isnt really impressive, teams tend to relax when they are winning big. The other series wasnt really close either so that gives 2 of the efficient series are not as impressive as 41ppg on 51% fg or 31 on 56% (55.8% is 56% not 55% if you are rounding the numbers, you know grade school and all that ) and actually winning the series. 2-4% isnt really that much of a difference.

You continue to derail this thread over semantics. Surely this is a strike for baiting?

I’ll make mental note for our special readers that "You're right Jordan didn't shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." isn’t enough when I already said “with the season on the line” prior in response to a former reply, and make sure to add the words “elimination games” or “with the season on the line”, again.

Says the guy who spent an entire four paragraph post on explaining the word partisan

[Kawaii Leonard]

No series/rounds have a whole other meaning then 1 game. Using semantics is just a cop out.



My point is that you going from "season on the line, Jordan shot 38% and 30% in the 1st round of the playoffs in ‘85 & ‘87" to "You’re right Jordan didn’t shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." first one being pretty vague on what you are talking about, the other implies Jordan shooting 30-38% in multible first round series... Keyword being series which implies to a series of games not 2 singular games.

So dont mention grade schooler and in the span of 3 posts completely change the word and meaning of your argument and then being angry that someone did not spend time to go through your posts to be certain of what you are trying to convey. That saves everyone a lot of time. hence this whole convo wouldnt have happen.



the first one is the most lopsided final in history, they lost by an average of 14 points being efficient in that isnt really impressive, teams tend to relax when they are winning big. The other series wasnt really close either so that gives 2 of the efficient series are not as impressive as 41ppg on 51% fg or 31 on 56% (55.8% is 56% not 55% if you are rounding the numbers, you know grade school and all that ) and actually winning the series. 2-4% isnt really that much of a difference.

You continue to derail this thread over semantics. Surely this is a strike for baiting?

I’ll make mental note for our special readers that "You're right Jordan didn't shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." isn’t enough when I already said “with the season on the line” prior in response to a former reply, and make sure to add the words “elimination games” or “with the season on the line”, again.

Says the guy who spent an entire four paragraph post on explaining the word partisan

What is even your point? Any grade schooler can follow along the thread and realize what the points I was making about the ‘85 and ‘87 elim games. Games 4&3 back then meant, “with the season on the line”. Cmon. Stop derailing atp or reply to what I said to you instead man.

He’s not derailing.
Almost every one of your posts has been derailing.

How long is it going to take you to realize that for every cherry picked lebron stat, there are at least five in Jordan’s favor and that his arsenal simply dominates this debate?

I’ve been watching you trip over your words for weeks now, trying to deflect through insult or falsifying stats, like the playoff series you thought you pointed out of Jordan shooting in the .300’s like lebron…. didn’t even happen. It all still comes down to longevity and excuses for lebron.

Huh? It's clear that you are not arguing about FG% series but the game when season is on the line, below is the actual argument, you response to that with your first word as interesting, I will bold it for you.

Interesting.

Because basketball reference says that Jordan shot .436 and .417 respectively. That first one being his rookie season, by the way
You must be desperate.

Care to link me to the sources you got those percentages from?
Reality says completely otherwise.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

This, of course, is pertaining to Lebron having multiple series where he shot terribly or even disappeared and Jordan lacking so, just to refresh your memory.

You actually can’t read, can you?



https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198504260CHI.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198704280CHI.html

Yes, I’m the one spreading propaganda here, while you’re still sporting that hilarious sig of yours.
How and why are you lecturing others on the english language, when you’re this inept at reading comprehension.
And you wonder why I’ve stopped having a debate with you and your partisan fan club sources.

And in 2010 with Cleveland’s season on the line, he put up a whopping 15 points against Boston.

I even used your choice of words. And once again, no, Lebron had a 27 19 10 triple double. This just further proves you don’t fact check or even read your own copy and pasted propaganda. You can stop embarrassing yourself now. We are done here. At least I am.

If that argument confuses you, the phrase is color red and where did you get that LeBron scored whopping 15 points against Boston when the season is on the line in 2010? This was the actual game where LeBron posted 27 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals and 1 block.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005130BOS.html

Is that a typo or you are just falsifying stats? Low comprehension? If it's a typo as the excuse you used before then what year are you referring to? Care to link me the sources? In 2008, LeBron scored 32 points in game 6 and 45 points in game 7 both games the season was on the line. In 2012, LeBron scored 45 points in game 6 and 31 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. In 2018, LeBron scored 46 points in game 6 and 35 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. I think that's all of LeBron's playoffs series when the season was on the line against Boston, in other series his team won by a sweep or 5 games if memory serves me right. So what year are you referring to?

We are all still waiting for an explanation, Mr. “Verbal Beatdowns”

Arguing over semantics as an actual counterpoint, as opposed to questioning why one would deliberately use partisan sure are similar. You continue to show that you’re an expert at comparisons.

[Gregoire]

95-31. Here we go. Нou can't trick people.

[DOT]

95-31. Here we go. Нou can't trick people.

Totally sane people behavior right here.

[bledredwine]

Spoiler:

You continue to derail this thread over semantics. Surely this is a strike for baiting?

I’ll make mental note for our special readers that "You're right Jordan didn't shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." isn’t enough when I already said “with the season on the line” prior in response to a former reply, and make sure to add the words “elimination games” or “with the season on the line”, again.

Says the guy who spent an entire four paragraph post on explaining the word partisan

He’s not derailing.
Almost every one of your posts has been derailing.

How long is it going to take you to realize that for every cherry picked lebron stat, there are at least five in Jordan’s favor and that his arsenal simply dominates this debate?

I’ve been watching you trip over your words for weeks now, trying to deflect through insult or falsifying stats, like the playoff series you thought you pointed out of Jordan shooting in the .300’s like lebron…. didn’t even happen. It all still comes down to longevity and excuses for lebron.

Huh? It's clear that you are not arguing about FG% series but the game when season is on the line, below is the actual argument, you response to that with your first word as interesting, I will bold it for you.

You actually can’t read, can you?



https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198504260CHI.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198704280CHI.html

Yes, I’m the one spreading propaganda here, while you’re still sporting that hilarious sig of yours.
How and why are you lecturing others on the english language, when you’re this inept at reading comprehension.
And you wonder why I’ve stopped having a debate with you and your partisan fan club sources.




I even used your choice of words. And once again, no, Lebron had a 27 19 10 triple double. This just further proves you don’t fact check or even read your own copy and pasted propaganda. You can stop embarrassing yourself now. We are done here. At least I am.

If that argument confuses you, the phrase is color red and where did you get that LeBron scored whopping 15 points against Boston when the season is on the line in 2010? This was the actual game where LeBron posted 27 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals and 1 block.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005130BOS.html

Is that a typo or you are just falsifying stats? Low comprehension? If it's a typo as the excuse you used before then what year are you referring to? Care to link me the sources? In 2008, LeBron scored 32 points in game 6 and 45 points in game 7 both games the season was on the line. In 2012, LeBron scored 45 points in game 6 and 31 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. In 2018, LeBron scored 46 points in game 6 and 35 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. I think that's all of LeBron's playoffs series when the season was on the line against Boston, in other series his team won by a sweep or 5 games if memory serves me right. So what year are you referring to?

We are all still waiting for an explanation, Mr. “Verbal Beatdowns”

Arguing over semantics as an actual counterpoint, as opposed to questioning why one would deliberately use partisan sure are similar. You continue to show that you’re an expert at comparisons.

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

Poster is on vacation. Please don't respond.

[ScrantonBulls]

Says the guy who spent an entire four paragraph post on explaining the word partisan

Huh? It's clear that you are not arguing about FG% series but the game when season is on the line, below is the actual argument, you response to that with your first word as interesting, I will bold it for you.



If that argument confuses you, the phrase is color red and where did you get that LeBron scored whopping 15 points against Boston when the season is on the line in 2010? This was the actual game where LeBron posted 27 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals and 1 block.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005130BOS.html

Is that a typo or you are just falsifying stats? Low comprehension? If it's a typo as the excuse you used before then what year are you referring to? Care to link me the sources? In 2008, LeBron scored 32 points in game 6 and 45 points in game 7 both games the season was on the line. In 2012, LeBron scored 45 points in game 6 and 31 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. In 2018, LeBron scored 46 points in game 6 and 35 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. I think that's all of LeBron's playoffs series when the season was on the line against Boston, in other series his team won by a sweep or 5 games if memory serves me right. So what year are you referring to?

We are all still waiting for an explanation, Mr. “Verbal Beatdowns”

Arguing over semantics as an actual counterpoint, as opposed to questioning why one would deliberately use partisan sure are similar. You continue to show that you’re an expert at comparisons.

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

I want to be completely sincere and honest with you here. I'm not trying to be malicious or rude, but this is the big problem with all your posts. You don't read what other people are saying. And you don't truly read the stats that you always post. They're wrong so frequently. Look at my signature. Look at earlier in the thread when you claimed LeBron scored 15 points against Boston in game 6 of the 2010 series. You were just flat out wrong and spreading misinformation.

As I said, I'm trying to be sincere here and tell you the honest truth. Your reputation has taken hit after hit because you are frequently posting misinformation. You need to take time to read and understand stats before you post them. Proofread your posts before posting. Quit relying on random YouTube videos that you believe just because they affirm what you want to be true. It would go a long way for the quality of discussions with you if you just took a little longer to proofread your posts.and verified stats before posting them.

[twyzted]

Arguing semantics. Did you not process my initial argument? And now you resort to this, when there’s written proof of what was said in sequence. Follow the trail instead of quoting posts out of context and discourse to bicker. You continuously quote me and remove what I was replying to and displace them into posts pages later. I wonder why. What’s even more hilarious is bledredwine resorting to the same antics, quoting my post and completely lacking grade school comprehension, and you had to quote that to kick the dead horse again. And to what avail? How about you reply to my response instead of embarrassing him again. What is it with you Lebron haters and just ignoring replies? This goldfish phenomenon is fascinating.

No series/rounds have a whole other meaning then 1 game. Using semantics is just a cop out.

What is even your point? Any grade schooler can follow along the thread and realize what the points I was making about the ‘85 and ‘87 elim games. Games 4&3 back then meant, “with the season on the line”. Cmon. Stop derailing atp or reply to what I said to you instead man.

My point is that you going from "season on the line, Jordan shot 38% and 30% in the 1st round of the playoffs in ‘85 & ‘87" to "You’re right Jordan didn’t shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." first one being pretty vague on what you are talking about, the other implies Jordan shooting 30-38% in multible first round series... Keyword being series which implies to a series of games not 2 singular games.

So dont mention grade schooler and in the span of 3 posts completely change the word and meaning of your argument and then being angry that someone did not spend time to go through your posts to be certain of what you are trying to convey. That saves everyone a lot of time. hence this whole convo wouldnt have happen.

Why are you straw manning the results of the finals over a comparison of efficiency between two players? Mind you the poster I was replying to specifically cherry-picked Finals performances (specifically Lebron’s blunder in 2011—which no one refuted) while we were discussing efficiency and if Lebron can match Jordan’s while scoring as much. He exceeded multiple times. And are we comparing players or all-time teams here? Next, you’re going to tell me that Jordan would’ve bested the 2018 Durant Warriors with the help of Love, JR Smith, George Hill, and Tristan Thompson? Please apply some context if you’re gonna have an angle like that.

the first one is the most lopsided final in history, they lost by an average of 14 points being efficient in that isnt really impressive, teams tend to relax when they are winning big. The other series wasnt really close either so that gives 2 of the efficient series are not as impressive as 41ppg on 51% fg or 31 on 56% (55.8% is 56% not 55% if you are rounding the numbers, you know grade school and all that ) and actually winning the series. 2-4% isnt really that much of a difference.

You continue to derail this thread over semantics. Surely this is a strike for baiting?

I’ll make a mental note for our special readers that "You're right Jordan didn't shoot like that in the Finals but he sure did shoot 30% - 38% in multiple first rounds." isn’t enough when I already stated “with the season on the line” prior in response to a former reply on a similar matter (2010 ECSF g6), and make sure to add the words “elimination games” or “with the season on the line”, again and again for those still confused.

I mean referring to a singular game/games as a multibe first rounds/series isnt correct... so no im not arguing semantics, it is literally a whole other meaning by changing the words from "elimination games/with season on the line" to Series/rounds. It isnt about "special readers" it is about using the right words when writing sentences.
And yes elimination game/games and/or with season on the line would be the correct way to word the sentence.

[twyzted]

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

I want to be completely sincere and honest with you here. I'm not trying to be malicious or rude, but this is the big problem with all your posts. You don't read what other people are saying. And you don't truly read the stats that you always post. They're wrong so frequently. Look at my signature. Look at earlier in the thread when you claimed LeBron scored 15 points against Boston in game 5 of the 2010 series. You were just flat out wrong and spreading misinformation.

As I said, I'm trying to be sincere here and tell you the honest truth. Your reputation has taken hit after hit because you are frequently posting misinformation. You need to take time to read and understand stats before you post them. Proofread your posts before posting. Quit relying on random YouTube videos that you believe just because they affirm what you want to be true. It would go a long way for the quality of discussions with you if you just took a little longer to proofread your posts.and verified stats before posting them.

I love that you say that he is flat out wrong, spreading misinformation, telling him to take a little longer to proofread and verify his stats. Then the game you are using to make a point is actually the game where Lebron scored 15 points

[michaelm]

Deleted

[michaelm]

I believe we were discussing what a Dynasty means to you, and not if a team was “cool”. You’re naming off teams that completed the journey my friend (with the Jazz being the only exception), which is what we are pressing you about.

Edit: as for your post above, the fact that you have to cherry-pick (or worse for some other posters here), shows that the comparison is much closer than what the Jordan partisan fans incessantly try to pound into the sand. Some of them can’t even fathom that Lebron could be even in the conversation. That’s what grinds my gears as a fan of both, even though characters like michaelm can’t believe such an anomaly.

I don’t doubt at all that people can be a fan of both players. My doubt concerns whether you are such a fan, and whether you actually observed Jordan in his time. Having watched him contemporaneously in my own relative youth brings its own bias of course, but so does having watched LeBron in his prime in your youth but not Jordan.

You have posted basically a single phrase saying you consider Jordan to be the GOAT, but numerous posts, some quite voluminous, in support of LeBron and taking issue with those who favour Jordan.

What backwards thinking again. Just because I’ve been strong armed to back and forths with the likes of bledredwine, I didn’t watch Jordan in person or during his heyday?

Edit: as for your post above, the fact that you have to cherry-pick (or worse for some other posters here), shows that the comparison is much closer than what the Jordan partisan fans incessantly try to pound into the sand. Some of them can’t even fathom that Lebron could be even in the conversation. That’s what grinds my gears as a fan of both, even though characters like michaelm can’t believe such an anomaly.

Is what I wrote above that incomprehensible?

Yes, because I refute the words of bledredwine’s insanely inaccurate propaganda much like his signature and fabricated numbers, I have to show my partisanship to Jordan? How would that benefit my stance to claim that the two players are much closer in this comparison, and that Jordan doesn’t need to be glorified to the point of a deity for him to still be the goat? Like listen to yourself.. I know we’ve had our run-ins with warrior threads but you sure are difficult to level with.

I stand by my observation that you have posted one sentence, or more a single phrase iirc, that Jordan is your GOAT, and very many posts taking issue with posters in the Jordan camp, including several posters other than Bledred.

You also said Bledred was employing rose coloured glasses in regard to Jordan, which someone who had watched Jordan in his time would be unlikely to claim imo, given both that Jordan like LeBron was actually incredibly good by any objective criteria, and that Bledred’s view of Jordan is pretty much how Jordan was perceived at the time particularly after the 2nd threepeat and the 71 win season, when he was viewed as the consensus GOAT well ahead of previous greats. Sure very likely an element of hagiography was involved, and I did btw say rightly or wrongly, but Bledred whether or not he gets his numbers right is not looking back and awarding Jordan a status he never had.

MavsDirk has it right imo, numbers can be cherry picked to support either player. These include statistics which didn’t exist for Jordan to chase had he wanted to do so. Bledred getting numbers wrong doesn’t make Scranton Bulls correct in the overall debate, imo only of course.

And if you find my arguments unconvincing I will just have to live with that, as you will with my opinion of your arguments.

[ScrantonBulls]

Spoiler:

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

I want to be completely sincere and honest with you here. I'm not trying to be malicious or rude, but this is the big problem with all your posts. You don't read what other people are saying. And you don't truly read the stats that you always post. They're wrong so frequently. Look at my signature. Look at earlier in the thread when you claimed LeBron scored 15 points against Boston in game 5 of the 2010 series. You were just flat out wrong and spreading misinformation.

As I said, I'm trying to be sincere here and tell you the honest truth. Your reputation has taken hit after hit because you are frequently posting misinformation. You need to take time to read and understand stats before you post them. Proofread your posts before posting. Quit relying on random YouTube videos that you believe just because they affirm what you want to be true. It would go a long way for the quality of discussions with you if you just took a little longer to proofread your posts.and verified stats before posting them.

I love that you say that he is flat out wrong, spreading misinformation, telling him to take a little longer to proofread and verify his stats. Then the game you are using to make a point is actually the game where Lebron scored 15 points

Don't edit my quotes to try and make me look bad.

Poster has been suspended due to a litany of violations throughout the thread. Don't let this happen to you! -b and CCS

[ScrantonBulls]

Spoiler:

I don’t doubt at all that people can be a fan of both players. My doubt concerns whether you are such a fan, and whether you actually observed Jordan in his time. Having watched him contemporaneously in my own relative youth brings its own bias of course, but so does having watched LeBron in his prime in your youth but not Jordan.

You have posted basically a single phrase saying you consider Jordan to be the GOAT, but numerous posts, some quite voluminous, in support of LeBron and taking issue with those who favour Jordan.

What backwards thinking again. Just because I’ve been strong armed to back and forths with the likes of bledredwine, I didn’t watch Jordan in person or during his heyday?

Edit: as for your post above, the fact that you have to cherry-pick (or worse for some other posters here), shows that the comparison is much closer than what the Jordan partisan fans incessantly try to pound into the sand. Some of them can’t even fathom that Lebron could be even in the conversation. That’s what grinds my gears as a fan of both, even though characters like michaelm can’t believe such an anomaly.

Is what I wrote above that incomprehensible?

Yes, because I refute the words of bledredwine’s insanely inaccurate propaganda much like his signature and fabricated numbers, I have to show my partisanship to Jordan? How would that benefit my stance to claim that the two players are much closer in this comparison, and that Jordan doesn’t need to be glorified to the point of a deity for him to still be the goat? Like listen to yourself.. I know we’ve had our run-ins with warrior threads but you sure are difficult to level with.

I stand by my observation that you have posted one sentence, or more a single phrase iirc, that Jordan is your GOAT, and very many posts taking issue with posters in the Jordan camp, including several posters other than Bledred.

You also said Bledred was employing rose coloured glasses in regard to Jordan, which someone who had watched Jordan in his time would be unlikely to claim imo, given both that Jordan like LeBron was actually incredibly good by any objective criteria, and that Bledred’s view of Jordan is pretty much how Jordan was perceived at the time particularly after the 2nd threepeat and the 71 win season, when he was viewed as the consensus GOAT well ahead of previous greats. Sure very likely an element of hagiography was involved, and I did btw say rightly or wrongly, but Bledred whether or not he gets his numbers right is not looking back and awarding Jordan a status he never had.

MavsDirk has it right imo, numbers can be cherry picked to support either player. These include statistics which didn’t exist for Jordan to chase had he wanted to do so. Bledred getting numbers wrong doesn’t make Scranton Bulls correct in the overall debate, imo only of course.

And if you find my arguments unconvincing I will just have to live with that, as you will with my opinion of your arguments.

Ok Colin Robinson, you win

Poster has been suspended due to a litany of violations throughout the thread. Don't let this happen to you! -b and CCS

[zimpy27]

Got to lock this topic for a bit.

The idea is to debate the players, not to attack the way each other posts. If you have an issue with posting them ignore and if it's offensive then report.

[Iwasawitness]

Says the guy who spent an entire four paragraph post on explaining the word partisan

Huh? It's clear that you are not arguing about FG% series but the game when season is on the line, below is the actual argument, you response to that with your first word as interesting, I will bold it for you.



If that argument confuses you, the phrase is color red and where did you get that LeBron scored whopping 15 points against Boston when the season is on the line in 2010? This was the actual game where LeBron posted 27 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists, 3 steals and 1 block.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005130BOS.html

Is that a typo or you are just falsifying stats? Low comprehension? If it's a typo as the excuse you used before then what year are you referring to? Care to link me the sources? In 2008, LeBron scored 32 points in game 6 and 45 points in game 7 both games the season was on the line. In 2012, LeBron scored 45 points in game 6 and 31 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. In 2018, LeBron scored 46 points in game 6 and 35 points in game 7, both games the season was on the line. I think that's all of LeBron's playoffs series when the season was on the line against Boston, in other series his team won by a sweep or 5 games if memory serves me right. So what year are you referring to?

We are all still waiting for an explanation, Mr. “Verbal Beatdowns”

Arguing over semantics as an actual counterpoint, as opposed to questioning why one would deliberately use partisan sure are similar. You continue to show that you’re an expert at comparisons.

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

I just want everyone to know that this is coming from the guy who claimed LeBron lost 40 pounds between 2014 and 2016.

[bledredwine]

Spoiler:

lol, I’ve ignored your last three’ish posts. I generally ignore the trolls (you and scranton mainly). Didn’t read a single word.

Maybe if you ask my series of ten questions that you didn’t have a word for on lebron’s weaknesses and failures, then we can talk. But that won’t happen. But yep, certainly was a verbal beatdown. You had no answers but to state “falsified stats” for like five of my posts what a joke “Mr Partisan”

I want to be completely sincere and honest with you here. I'm not trying to be malicious or rude, but this is the big problem with all your posts. You don't read what other people are saying. And you don't truly read the stats that you always post. They're wrong so frequently. Look at my signature. Look at earlier in the thread when you claimed LeBron scored 15 points against Boston in game 5 of the 2010 series. You were just flat out wrong and spreading misinformation.

As I said, I'm trying to be sincere here and tell you the honest truth. Your reputation has taken hit after hit because you are frequently posting misinformation. You need to take time to read and understand stats before you post them. Proofread your posts before posting. Quit relying on random YouTube videos that you believe just because they affirm what you want to be true. It would go a long way for the quality of discussions with you if you just took a little longer to proofread your posts.and verified stats before posting them.

I love that you say that he is flat out wrong, spreading misinformation, telling him to take a little longer to proofread and verify his stats. Then the game you are using to make a point is actually the game where Lebron scored 15 points

Didn’t even read a word of his post, funny he hasn’t even learned by now.

Some posters are a waste of time and you’ll get nothing out of it, plain and simple. The amount of tap dancing around facts that those three have done has been affirming, to say the least. I know 100% that they’re delusional, just like prime kobe era kobe fans were.

Strike issued for another personal attack after many warnings. Because this is your 3rd strike on the GB, you are now suspended from posting for 30 days. -b

[K N U C K L E S]

Wilt and Russell played against mostly white guys who were at least 6 inches shorter than them. That's the only reason they put up video game stats. If they played today, they'd still be among the best in the game, but wouldn't put up video game numbers.

Conversely, if you put todays best players in their era, they would put up video game stats.

[Iwasawitness]

Wilt and Russell played against mostly white guys who were at least 6 inches shorter than them. That's the only reason they put up video game stats. If they played today, they'd still be among the best in the game, but wouldn't put up video game numbers.

Conversely, if you put todays best players in their era, they would put up video game stats.

Wilts combination of strength and athleticism would be a joy to watch though.

[The Explorer]

Wilt and Russell played against mostly white guys who were at least 6 inches shorter than them. That's the only reason they put up video game stats. If they played today, they'd still be among the best in the game, but wouldn't put up video game numbers.

Conversely, if you put todays best players in their era, they would put up video game stats.

That's neither here nor there, though. There's so much unknown in hypotheticals that I believe it's pointless to draw meaningful conclusions from them in the goat discourse. Players did what they could given what they had and once you start the time travel debate, the comparisons become unfair both going forward and backward. I tend to compare on what players did in their own eras.