Al Jefferson low post highlights

[FrodoBaggins]

He was physically big for a PF but not a C. NBA Combine measurements: 6'8.25" barefoot, 6'9.75" in shoes, 263 lbs, 7'2.5" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach. He really needed DeMarcus Cousins (7'5.75", 9'5") or DeAndre Jordan (7'6", 9'5.75") length & reach to make up for his poor athletic qualities (speed, power) and skill and IQ limitations. An unfortunate blend of poor positional size and athleticism. Too unathletic for the PF position, not quite big enough for the C position.

An extra 3 to 4 inches of functional size would've made Al a more effective rebounder, rim & paint protector, and interior finisher. All other qualities remaining the same, of course.

[tsherkin]

I hope Eddy Curry gets an installment in this series.

No such player ever existed.

Heheheh.

His 2011-12 season was nice. Helped the Jazz make the playoffs, comfortably leading a +2.2 offense in MPG (34.0) and OBPM (+3.5) in the RS and in the postseason (35.3, +4.1).

Although Al sported only a 99 TS+, he carried a respectable 22.2 points/75 poss scoring volume (99th percentile) with a freakishly low 3.1 scoring TOV% (99th percentile). Consider that almost none of his points came from transition, and suddenly his scoring efficiency looks better. His playmaking numbers were also respectable (2.2 apg, 2.2:1.0 assist-to-turnover ratio, 12.1 AST%, 2.1 bad pass TOV%).

If he wasn't such a weak playmaker and if he had a lead guard in front of him, he'd be a little better. But he was the low-block equivalent of a mid-range scorer who never passed, which left him very limited in value. Like, his AST:TOV ratio is good... but he also didn't create well for others, which is often a problem for post scorers who don't have dynamic options, and can only score on the low block. Even the extreme versions of this (like, for example, Adrian Dantley), have a ceiling on their offensive value. And Al was not that sort of efficiency monster at all, so his value was quite a bit more limited.

As a second option, especially in-era, a little more palatable if you ignore defense. As a focal weapon for a team you wanted to be particularly good on offense, though... much less so.

[Froob]

He was a problem

[jehosafats]

The Heatles figured out the only way to stop him was to spam 3pters.

[Chokic]

Big Al and Jahlil okafor are two of the most skilled low post scorers in nba history. Both were zero time all stars. Both had great footwork and soft touch around the basket. Both also had massive tunnel vision when they touched the ball bc they were so confident in their own offense that it killed ball movement. Both got phased out from the gradual transition of big men shooting 3 pointers. Noone can convince me multi all star al horford was a better basketball player than al jefferson.

Just because all they can do is post up doesn’t mean they were good at it.

There’s a reason why Okafor couldn’t stay in the league despite playing on 5 teams in 7 years.

Okafor was out of the league bc of his bad attitude not bc he couldnt play or didnt have a position. Had the sixers not had Embiid and Simmons at their disposal at the time they may not have viewed Okafor as completely expendable the sixers might have put up with him and given him more chances. His apathy to try on defense sealed the deal for him.

[tsherkin]

Big Al and Jahlil okafor are two of the most skilled low post scorers in nba history. Both were zero time all stars. Both had great footwork and soft touch around the basket. Both also had massive tunnel vision when they touched the ball bc they were so confident in their own offense that it killed ball movement. Both got phased out from the gradual transition of big men shooting 3 pointers. Noone can convince me multi all star al horford was a better basketball player than al jefferson.

Just because all they can do is post up doesn’t mean they were good at it.

There’s a reason why Okafor couldn’t stay in the league despite playing on 5 teams in 7 years.

Okafor was out of the league bc of his bad attitude not bc he couldnt play or didnt have a position. Had the sixers not had Embiid and Simmons at their disposal at the time they may not have viewed Okafor as completely expendable the sixers might have put up with him and given him more chances. His apathy to try on defense sealed the deal for him.

So.... defense, passing, health, all also factors beyond his attitude.

Additionally, he was at 0.85 (5.9 poss/g), 0.85 (4.0 poss/g), 0.76 (26 GP, 1.6 poss/g), 0.94 (1.8 poss/g), 0.96 (30 GP, 1.7 poss/g), and 1.03 PPP (27 GP, 1.1 poss/g) on post-ups.

When he bothered to cut, when he got out in transition, when he hit the O-boards (and he was a decent offensive rebounder, if nothing special), he scored well. But his actual iso post game was fairly underwhelming under lower volume and small sample sizes took over.

So in essence, until he was playing fewer games and doing it only a couple times per game, he wasn't actually scoring that well from the post in the NBA. When he was spamming it early in his rookie contract, he was well below average for his first three seasons.

He just... wasn't worth it.

[Klomp]

Al Harrington -> Al Jefferson -> Antawn Jamison

For some reason those three players mix together in my head.

Is that you, shrink?

[Klomp]

Big Al and Jahlil okafor are two of the most skilled low post scorers in nba history. Both were zero time all stars. Both had great footwork and soft touch around the basket. Both also had massive tunnel vision when they touched the ball bc they were so confident in their own offense that it killed ball movement. Both got phased out from the gradual transition of big men shooting 3 pointers. Noone can convince me multi all star al horford was a better basketball player than al jefferson.

This is such an underrated difference-maker between what makes great players great and what makes average players average, never reaching their full potential. I think you also see it on the perimeter with the sixth man super scorer type like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, Bobby Jackson, Nick Young, JR Smith, etc. So many guys have talent, but there needs to be an awareness of when to use it and when to defer.

[sikma42]

He’s not that skilled. Footwork is slow and rudimentary.

Compared to someone like Anthony Davis, he looks like a basic 65 year old unc.

don't think you understand what you're watching. AD doesn't have particularly good footwork on the low block.

[tsherkin]

This is such an underrated difference-maker between what makes great players great and what makes average players average, never reaching their full potential. I think you also see it on the perimeter with the sixth man super scorer type like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, Bobby Jackson, Nick Young, JR Smith, etc. So many guys have talent, but there needs to be an awareness of when to use it and when to defer.

TBF, both Bobby Jackson and Jason Terry adapted into a microwave-scorer kind of role rather well. Terry was CRITICAL to the 2011 Mavs and Jackson was a big part of some very good Kings teams. Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford had nice handles and could get hot from three, but their overall games lacked much else... but both managed to figure it out at least during the RS well enough to be perennial 6MOY contenders. What they failed to do was become perennial All-Star perimeter guys, but they still found a valuable niche.

[Klomp]

This is such an underrated difference-maker between what makes great players great and what makes average players average, never reaching their full potential. I think you also see it on the perimeter with the sixth man super scorer type like Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford, Jason Terry, Bobby Jackson, Nick Young, JR Smith, etc. So many guys have talent, but there needs to be an awareness of when to use it and when to defer.

TBF, both Bobby Jackson and Jason Terry adapted into a microwave-scorer kind of role rather well. Terry was CRITICAL to the 2011 Mavs and Jackson was a big part of some very good Kings teams. Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford had nice handles and could get hot from three, but their overall games lacked much else... but both managed to figure it out at least during the RS well enough to be perennial 6MOY contenders. What they failed to do was become perennial All-Star perimeter guys, but they still found a valuable niche.

Oh, of course. I probably should have differentiated more between the true 6th man role and guys like Young or Smith. The latter are probably more like Al, where the tunnel vision really cut their careers short. The others just had to tweak their games, but made the transition.

[FrodoBaggins]

Just because all they can do is post up doesn’t mean they were good at it.

There’s a reason why Okafor couldn’t stay in the league despite playing on 5 teams in 7 years.

Okafor was out of the league bc of his bad attitude not bc he couldnt play or didnt have a position. Had the sixers not had Embiid and Simmons at their disposal at the time they may not have viewed Okafor as completely expendable the sixers might have put up with him and given him more chances. His apathy to try on defense sealed the deal for him.

So.... defense, passing, health, all also factors beyond his attitude.

Additionally, he was at 0.85 (5.9 poss/g), 0.85 (4.0 poss/g), 0.76 (26 GP, 1.6 poss/g), 0.94 (1.8 poss/g), 0.96 (30 GP, 1.7 poss/g), and 1.03 PPP (27 GP, 1.1 poss/g) on post-ups.

When he bothered to cut, when he got out in transition, when he hit the O-boards (and he was a decent offensive rebounder, if nothing special), he scored well. But his actual iso post game was fairly underwhelming under lower volume and small sample sizes took over.

So in essence, until he was playing fewer games and doing it only a couple times per game, he wasn't actually scoring that well from the post in the NBA. When he was spamming it early in his rookie contract, he was well below average for his first three seasons.

He just... wasn't worth it.

Yeah, way too many deficiencies in his game, and as you said, the iso post game was weak sauce. For comparison, Big Al was at 0.95 ppp (84th percentile; 8% above league average) on 7.5 poss/g (96th percentile) from 2013-14 to 2017-18. 2,151 total possessions. 1.06 ppp (94th percentile; 20% above league average) on 6.7 poss/g (98th percentile) over 67 possessions in the playoffs (2014, 2016).

Similar raw TS%, but Okafor was way more turnover prone. Al I could see as a bench big man who could be efficient on 2-3 post-up possessions per game today. Not so for Okafor.

[DOT]

Firstly, it's just wild to read "I miss the days of low post scoring" about a guy whose peak was 2008-2014 (he actually got MVP votes in 2014 lol) because people usually act like the moment the clock struck 2000, everything changed. In reality, the change happened far later than you think

It's just that when we talk about guys like Al Jefferson or even Jahlil Okafor, the issue with them isn't the post scoring, it's the everything else. You can be a low post scorer, you just can't be only a low post scorer. In Big Al's time, yeah he was always on bad teams, but his teams were usually worse with him on because all he could do was score down low

My counterpoint to him would be Lamarcus Aldridge, who played in basically the same era (was drafted 2 years after Big Al) yet his teams were basically always better when he was on. Because while he was a great post up player, he could do much more on the court. There's a reason he made 7 All Star teams and 5 All-NBA teams to Al's 0 All Stars and 1 All-NBA

This is a highlight video of his post-up game from 2016:

Watch on YouTube

[tsherkin]

Oh, of course. I probably should have differentiated more between the true 6th man role and guys like Young or Smith. The latter are probably more like Al, where the tunnel vision really cut their careers short. The others just had to tweak their games, but made the transition.

Nick Young and JR Smith were also just dumb, at least in basketball terms, which is obviously the only place I can evaluate them. They did not have good instincts on the court, consistently made tons of mistakes, etc.

Al wasn't dumb, nor did he suffer from issues with his motor. He had some tunnel vision as he sort of worked to "enter the system" once he got the ball in the post and he didn't have great vision. Surely a limitation, but at least with him, you can say it wasn't attitude-based, you know? Moral victory, perhaps, but still.

Yeah, way too many deficiencies in his game, and as you said, the iso post game was weak sauce. For comparison, Big Al was at 0.95 ppp (84th percentile; 8% above league average) on 7.5 poss/g (96th percentile) from 2013-14 to 2017-18. 2,151 total possessions. 1.06 ppp (94th percentile; 20% above league average) on 6.7 poss/g (98th percentile) over 67 possessions in the playoffs (2014, 2016).

Yeah, if Al had been a little more capable with some of the off-ball stuff, his iso post game (which still wasn't elite scoring for that particular possession type, despite his proficient skill set), and was a little better a passer, his overall offense would have been MUUUUCH more tolerable. But he was athletically limited in a lot of ways. And as you say later, he might have thrived in a Corliss Williamson kind of lower-volume bench role.

Similar raw TS%, but Okafor was way more turnover prone. Al I could see as a bench big man who could be efficient on 2-3 post-up possessions per game today. Not so for Okafor.

Yeah, that was another big issue with Okafor for sure.

[Last Guardian]

Yeeesh, NBA slow season is officially here if we're posting Big Al highlights...

He was quite skillful. Lacked the athleticism/power to be really dominant, and he wasn't a particularly good passer. Couldn't draw fouls or finish at an elite rate and was a tepid FT shooter, so he just didn't have enough else going, leaving him floating around -1% rTS most of his scoring prime.

But the footwork? The touch on his hook shot? The various fakes? Dude was fantastic in those regards. We could do worse than watch highlights of him rooking people.

Like a smaller Eddy Curry?

[tsherkin]

Like a smaller Eddy Curry?

Curry had tools, man. Good power, decent footwork, good hook shot. Weak playmaker, but not because he had poor vision or anything, just... didn't pass out most of the time once he got it; he sometimes played post/re-post and he could make a good pass after receiving on a cut and stuff, but he was just not a high-end playmaker at all, mostly because he looked to finish plays too much. Kind of like a more disappointing Amare, I guess. Bleh defender. Disappointing rebounder. Lazy at basically everything but scoring. He had a left hand, he obviously knew how to use his base and strength. Could work on either side of the key. He had any kind of foot speed, could set a decent screen and play decent PnR when he wanted to... He was talented.

Wasn't as deft as Al, though. Not nearly as good finishing outside of the RA. He had size and knew how to use it. He had basic but functional footwork and enough of a handle in and around the key to get by. Not really similar to Big Al's skill set.