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Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors?

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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#161 » by JB7 » Tue Aug 5, 2025 12:08 am

artsncrafts wrote:
ciueli wrote:
dTox wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=NbrvjcgfNFEftONYU5lygw&s=19


I don't really see the Raptors as similar to the Kings. Kings are happily building an entire team around players who can't defend or are at best mediocre defenders, we just used a top 10 pick on CMB with Scottie already on the team and we're looking to get rid of RJ because he isn't the wing defender we need.


I dont think he means the teams are built the same, just that both teams are in the same situation (so they feel). That they went all in for....likely bottom 4 seed (or worse).


I really don’t get these comparisons. The Raps have not gone all in. They still own all of their own picks, and have a roster full of young players. The starters all being paid, are for the most part just going into their prime years.

Once the Raps separate themselves from these teams, during the season, these comparisons will finally stop.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#162 » by Thaddy » Tue Aug 5, 2025 2:07 am

Lowe is high on Miami but not the Raptors. That's weird I have us being much better than the Heat. From a top end perspective Barnes and Ingram are better than Bam and Herro.

IQ is really slept on. Fox topped out better but going forward he isn't. Fox is overhyped defensively but he measures smaller than IQ and he's a much worse shooter.

Poeltl
Adebayo vs Barnes
Barrett
Herro vs Ingram
Fox vs IQ

I like our team better than the alternative from a starting line up perspective. Lowe also disregarded our bench. The bench should make us at least a mid level defensive team. Shead, Mogbo, Walter, Agbaji, and CMB should get more love. Mamu, Martin and Chomche are also dark horses who can contribute on our bench.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#163 » by tsherkin » Tue Aug 5, 2025 11:39 am

Thaddy wrote:From a top end perspective Barnes and Ingram are better than Bam and Herro.


Are they? Herro's coming off a 24/5/5.5 season on +2.9% rTS, which is better than we ever saw from BI. And he's a much more established high-volume 3pt shooter (3 straight seasons of 7.9+ 3PA/g, no lower than 37.5%). Not quite as adept an iso player, to be fair. And Bam is a lot better than Scottie as a scoring threat, if mainly because he fills his role well and doesn't overshoot it, while also providing quality D.

One might quibble over who comes out on top, but I don't see that as clearly in our favor at all.

IQ is really slept on.


He seems it, yeah. IQ being around for more than 30 games should be a rather large boost for us.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#164 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Aug 5, 2025 12:20 pm

It's hard for media to get excited about teams that draft 9th. It's not a big deal.

Miami has been remarkably consistent where you can write them down for 39 wins, and then see where their younger players take them. Their big minute players have all been in deep playoff runs and/or won titles.

Toronto has more question marks. It's hard to go from low 30s to high 40s, which is what you'll need to get out of the play-in. Where I think the ESPN blurb gets too ESPN-y is the idea that this season is the end game for what the Raptors have been building.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#165 » by TravisScott55 » Tue Aug 5, 2025 1:50 pm

Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#166 » by Pointgod » Tue Aug 5, 2025 2:08 pm

ciueli wrote:
dTox wrote:
Read on Twitter
?t=NbrvjcgfNFEftONYU5lygw&s=19


I don't really see the Raptors as similar to the Kings. Kings are happily building an entire team around players who can't defend or are at best mediocre defenders, we just used a top 10 pick on CMB with Scottie already on the team and we're looking to get rid of RJ because he isn't the wing defender we need.


Kings East or Upper Class Bulls is a good way to describe this current team.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#167 » by tsherkin » Tue Aug 5, 2025 2:42 pm

Pointgod wrote:Kings East or Upper Class Bulls is a good way to describe this current team.


For the moment, sure. We do have to give management the chance ton see if they can go anywhere else after this, which is a transitional phase for the team (hopefully).
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#168 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Aug 5, 2025 2:46 pm

TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA


we are not 8th. we are closer to 12-13th if you look at actual salaries (assuming we drop a guy to get to 14 man)
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#169 » by causal_fan » Tue Aug 5, 2025 3:41 pm

TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA

That's what you get when you have no value contracts on the books and giving RFA IQ $32M for 5 years is indefensible. If Bobby Webster is responsible for the payroll mess, then I hope he doesn't get the top job.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#170 » by Tacoma » Tue Aug 5, 2025 4:04 pm

Godaddycurse wrote:
TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA


we are not 8th. we are closer to 12-13th if you look at actual salaries (assuming we drop a guy to get to 14 man)


How do you figure? Per Basketball Reference, we are 8th in contracts committed at $186M which are actual salaries or committed payments for next season, including 13 players under contract and excludes players like Alijah Martin, Chomche and Temple. To get to 14, we have to add, not drop.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#171 » by tsherkin » Tue Aug 5, 2025 4:05 pm

Tacoma wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA


we are not 8th. we are closer to 12-13th if you look at actual salaries (assuming we drop a guy to get to 14 man)


How do you figure? Per Basketball Reference, we are 8th in contracts committed at $186M which are actual salaries or committed payments for next season, including 13 players under contract and excludes players like Alijah Martin, Chomche and Temple. To get to 14, we have to add, not drop.


Hoopshype has us at 9th, for what that's worth.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#172 » by Godaddycurse » Tue Aug 5, 2025 4:37 pm

Tacoma wrote:
Godaddycurse wrote:
TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA


we are not 8th. we are closer to 12-13th if you look at actual salaries (assuming we drop a guy to get to 14 man)


How do you figure? Per Basketball Reference, we are 8th in contracts committed at $186M which are actual salaries or committed payments for next season, including 13 players under contract and excludes players like Alijah Martin, Chomche and Temple. To get to 14, we have to add, not drop.


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cap

under active salary we are 10th w/ 15 man roster. can get down to ~12 give or take if we drop a guy i think. I also assume GSW may go above the tax/below first apron once they eventually sort out their roster, and phoenix may add more potentially if they do the rumored kuminga deal
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#173 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Aug 5, 2025 5:07 pm

Fans worrying about the luxury tax is an antiquated approach to looking at team building that the media hasn't picked up on yet. Being in the luxury doesn't hinder flexibility, being in the 1st & more importantly the 2nd apron does
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#174 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Aug 5, 2025 5:30 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:Fans worrying about the luxury tax is an antiquated approach to looking at team building that the media hasn't picked up on yet. Being in the luxury doesn't hinder flexibility, being in the 1st & more importantly the 2nd apron does

Aprons are for...teams with franchise players. We're still in the play pen. Spending more has to make sense at some point.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#175 » by Badonkadonk » Tue Aug 5, 2025 5:31 pm

TravisScott55 wrote:Raptors have no business being the 8th highest payroll in the NBA

The only thing that matters is apron status, there's no practical difference in being a higher salaried 1st apron team.

Where you rank within an apron is largely a function of how many rotational guys you have, how many rookie deals, top-heavy vs. distributed lineups etc.

IMHO the most important thing to watch for apron teams is whether it has moveable vs. stuck contracts. You don't want to be in a Bradley Beal situation, but that's relatively rare where a guy is SO out of step with his market value.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#176 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Aug 5, 2025 5:53 pm

That's the problem though, teams are getting small. There is no market for teams taking on money like this. We're effectively locked in.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#177 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Aug 5, 2025 6:02 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:That's the problem though, teams are getting small. There is no market for teams taking on money like this. We're effectively locked in.


No, mostly because the market is not constant. Teams like San Antonio and New York, without a gun to their head, just handed out filthy extensions. There will always be mistakes and correction-based compulsion to make deals.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#178 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Aug 5, 2025 6:21 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:That's the problem though, teams are getting small. There is no market for teams taking on money like this. We're effectively locked in.


No, mostly because the market is not constant. Teams like San Antonio and New York, without a gun to their head, just handed out filthy extensions. There will always be mistakes and correction-based compulsion to make deals.

Yeah, to guys on their team. Very few teams are taking on money this year. Most are shedding. It's a buyer's market if you have money left.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#179 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Aug 5, 2025 6:40 pm

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:That's the problem though, teams are getting small. There is no market for teams taking on money like this. We're effectively locked in.


No, mostly because the market is not constant. Teams like San Antonio and New York, without a gun to their head, just handed out filthy extensions. There will always be mistakes and correction-based compulsion to make deals.

Yeah, to guys on their team. Very few teams are taking on money this year. Most are shedding. It's a buyer's market if you have money left.


Long term it won't be a problem. Teams that are shedding will add again. Their options to get better are 1) risky RFA market 2) UFA market (quick, name the best UFAs available in the next 2 off-seasons) 3) Trade for one of these overpriced max deals 4) Trade for good but not great players on reasonable deals.

The players that will truly get squeezed are the Chris Boucher, George Niang-types. Those will fall off dramatically. The Raptors shouldn't be criticized for handing out money unless they give Ochai a big extension.
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Re: Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors? 

Post#180 » by Harcore Fenton Mun » Tue Aug 5, 2025 6:55 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
No, mostly because the market is not constant. Teams like San Antonio and New York, without a gun to their head, just handed out filthy extensions. There will always be mistakes and correction-based compulsion to make deals.

Yeah, to guys on their team. Very few teams are taking on money this year. Most are shedding. It's a buyer's market if you have money left.


Long term it won't be a problem. Teams that are shedding will add again. Their options to get better are 1) risky RFA market 2) UFA market (quick, name the best UFAs available in the next 2 off-seasons) 3) Trade for one of these overpriced max deals 4) Trade for good but not great players on reasonable deals.

The players that will truly get squeezed are the Chris Boucher, George Niang-types. Those will fall off dramatically. The Raptors shouldn't be criticized for handing out money unless they give Ochai a big extension.

Trading for BI at least, at this point. It dun look good. Not only the over pay, but the pick. You can say that about a few of our contracts now though. They looked OK two years ago, but they don't fit the landscape going forward.
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