ATL - Fox Extension 4/229

[raferfenix]

That Fox contract looks dramatically different after the events of this offseason.

Even aside from the Spurs drafting Dylan Harper.

But San Antonio was too far down the road.

Reneging on the deal would have led to some serious retribution from Rich Paul after what he did:

"It seems there was a directive from his agent, Rich Paul, who played a key role and blackmailed the teams on which player was supposed to get traded where. He brought Fox to the Spurs and Zach LaVine, who is his player, brought him to Sacramento. By doing this, he limited Sacramento from a business standpoint, stating that they get a bit more from this trade with Fox if they had the same discussion with some other teams in the NBA," Stojakovic detailed behind-the-scenes events around this trade.

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/peja-stojakovic-says-rich-paul-225900544.html

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Was he not one of the best 3 players in the league for a several year stretch? 3x all defense, 2 scoring titles. On a basketball level, Embiid stands in rarefied air. I think he'll have a Chris Paul legacy where his greatness is overshadowed by his injuries.

Can you think of a player who's been more celebrated for accomplishing less? Chris Paul absolutely does not qualify.

What do you mean by accomplishing less? I think Embiid has accomplished a ton.

https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/nba/rankings/2025/07/09/79-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/84525554007/
Hoopshype had him at 77, which is way too low IMHO.
How many guys have 1 MVP, 5 all-nba, 7 all-stars? Maybe 50? He doesn't have longevity stats but i think he comfortably ends up top 60 which isn't bad for a guy who was never healthy.

ETA: Embiid is just one of 36 guys to get the MVP.

[Bernman]

The owners and players need to come together to amend the CBA before it expires in 5 years. I don't know if they can make it that long with there being such extreme salaries in each direction. Very good not great players are getting 57 million a year, while good players are netting a few mill.

That is not a product so much of the market rather restrictive rules. Teams are penny-pinching at the aprons but up to them they're splurging. Maybe just get rid of the 2nd apron & some hard-caps. But keep the 1st apron & punitive luxury tax. If they're spending the same what's the diff.

Not sure they’ll be interested in making a fix until mid range players bolt for other leagues.

That's an interesting angle. International leagues have influenced NBA rules in the past, like on draft age eligibility. And money talks. Though there's been no shortage of players who've hung around the G-League in hopes of the biggest stage & $.

But the NBPA serves everybody, so the rules don't help them. And the owners want caps to suppress salaries, but if we get to the same place where there are just large inequities amid the players, while the payrolls are the same, IDK there's pushback, even before they start losing players.

[emunney]

I continue to feel the Spurs were way off base both in targeting Fox as the guy, and now a max extension? For a 27 year old 1 time all-star guard with spotty outside shooting? I don't think you can really **** up the Wemby era from a personnel perspective -- his health is going to be by far the primary factor in the Spurs' success -- but if you were trying to do it, this is the kind of thing you'd do.

[emunney]

The owners and players need to come together to amend the CBA before it expires in 5 years. I don't know if they can make it that long with there being such extreme salaries in each direction. Very good not great players are getting 57 million a year, while good players are netting a few mill.

That is not a product so much of the market rather restrictive rules. Teams are penny-pinching at the aprons but up to them they're splurging. Maybe just get rid of the 2nd apron & some hard-caps. But keep the 1st apron & punitive luxury tax. If they're spending the same what's the diff.

Not sure they’ll be interested in making a fix until mid range players bolt for other leagues.

That's an interesting angle. International leagues have influenced NBA rules in the past, like on draft age eligibility. And money talks. Though there's been no shortage of players who've hung around the G-League in hopes of the biggest stage & $.

But the NBPA serves everybody, so the rules don't help them. And the owners want caps to suppress salaries, but if we get to the same place where there are just large inequities amid the players, while the payrolls are the same, IDK there's pushback, even before they start losing players.

The other thing is that you're never going to get a *big* contract coming back from overseas. So, like, for a guy like Trent, taking the minimum (or close to it) in the NBA is still the best way to demonstrate to NBA teams that you should get a big contract.

I don't doubt that some guys are getting squeezed but I wonder if anybody's tested the premise with anything approaching rigor. We definitely can come up with anecdotal examples of guys who shouldn't have gotten a little contract in every offseason, and clearly there were still quite a few guys who got midrange contracts this year (hello, Duncan Robinson).

I also think kind of a less-discussed aspect of the depressed spending to the extent it's happening is the fact that you can now use the MLE in trades. So there's a new reason to keep your powder dry heading into the season that hadn't existed in previous CBAs. It's not solely the aprons/penalties disincentivizing offseason spending.

[Bernman]

Not sure they’ll be interested in making a fix until mid range players bolt for other leagues.

That's an interesting angle. International leagues have influenced NBA rules in the past, like on draft age eligibility. And money talks. Though there's been no shortage of players who've hung around the G-League in hopes of the biggest stage & $.

But the NBPA serves everybody, so the rules don't help them. And the owners want caps to suppress salaries, but if we get to the same place where there are just large inequities amid the players, while the payrolls are the same, IDK there's pushback, even before they start losing players.

The other thing is that you're never going to get a *big* contract coming back from overseas. So, like, for a guy like Trent, taking the minimum (or close to it) in the NBA is still the best way to demonstrate to NBA teams that you should get a big contract.

I don't doubt that some guys are getting squeezed but I wonder if anybody's tested the premise with anything approaching rigor. We definitely can come up with anecdotal examples of guys who shouldn't have gotten a little contract in every offseason, and clearly there were still quite a few guys who got midrange contracts this year (hello, Duncan Robinson).

I also think kind of a less-discussed aspect of the depressed spending to the extent it's happening is the fact that you can now use the MLE in trades. So there's a new reason to keep your powder dry heading into the season that hadn't existed in previous CBAs. It's not solely the aprons/penalties disincentivizing offseason spending.

If the Saudis decide to get involved in basketball, like multiple other sports, they won't need the upper end $ upon returning. There's also some potential in Europe. The highest paid players are getting 4-5m USD. But those are by and large NBA failures. What would NBA rotation guys get? There are a # of countries in Europe where basketball is big. Doesn't quite hit futbol, but it's close, & similar to here.

There may be other factors for the virtual elimination of the NBA middle class. But aprons are far and away proving the biggest motivator. Absorbing players into your MLE via a trade isn't going to be very useful if there aren't many teams offering near full MLE's to players.

[RRyder823]

The owners and players need to come together to amend the CBA before it expires in 5 years. I don't know if they can make it that long with there being such extreme salaries in each direction. Very good not great players are getting 57 million a year, while good players are netting a few mill.

That is not a product so much of the market rather restrictive rules. Teams are penny-pinching at the aprons but up to them they're splurging. Maybe just get rid of the 2nd apron & some hard-caps. But keep the 1st apron & punitive luxury tax. If they're spending the same what's the diff.

Or.... Now hear me out.... NBA teams are gonna just need to come to rationalization that they need to be smarter with how they spend their cap (which it does appear some are) instead of just paying every decent player 30 million a year

They can add more avenues to manipulate the cap sure but as it stands currently the system is working as intended.

Draft great for 3-4 years strait. Grats you're going to get 3-4 years of contention and then you better of either continued to draft well and made smart decisions on who you handed out big contracts to or you're going to have some not fun decisions to make.

Im failing to see how less players getting overpaid is a problem that needs fixing

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[Bernman]

The owners and players need to come together to amend the CBA before it expires in 5 years. I don't know if they can make it that long with there being such extreme salaries in each direction. Very good not great players are getting 57 million a year, while good players are netting a few mill.

That is not a product so much of the market rather restrictive rules. Teams are penny-pinching at the aprons but up to them they're splurging. Maybe just get rid of the 2nd apron & some hard-caps. But keep the 1st apron & punitive luxury tax. If they're spending the same what's the diff.

Or.... Now hear me out.... NBA teams are gonna just need to come to rationalization that they need to be smarter with how they spend their cap (which it does appear some are) instead of just paying every decent player 30 million a year

They can add more avenues to manipulate the cap sure but as it stands currently the system is working as intended.

Draft great for 3-4 years strait. Grats you're going to get 3-4 years of contention and then you better of either continued to draft well and made smart decisions on who you handed out big contracts to or you're going to have some not fun decisions to make.

Im failing to see how less players getting overpaid is a problem that needs fixing

DeAaron Foxes aren't worth 15 times more to year team's success than Gary Trents. The problem is the artificial disparity. A sub-sect is grossly underpaid, and another grossly underpaid.

And like Drew said earlier, teams would change this strategy if outside leagues came in scoop up the useful players in the regular, or even postseason. The NBA would be compelled to pay up, to have a leg up domestically and worldwide. As is, w/ the new rules, they can just build out their core+ as their 1st priority, and leave the rest w/ minimums cuz it's all they can legally spend. NBA teams would grossly underachieve their payrolls if they built that way in an int'l sport. We see that w/ MLS in futbol.

[Profound23]

If Castle and Harper stay healthy then Fox will be traded with assets within a year

[soxperry]

Fox is a vessel for a big game hunt. They will have to pay more because of his contract but at least the salary match will be easy.

[FlagsFlyForever]

I think guys like

D Rose
TMac
Grant Hill
Amare Stoudamire
Yao Ming
Ray Allen


Would be in that conversation

Hell, even Mitch Richmond and Joe Johnson are top 50 all time in points.

Embiid won MVP and had three seasons as a top two MVP vote getter. None of the players you mentioned came close to achieving that.

[MickeyDavis]

Read on Twitter

[emunney]

I think guys like

D Rose
TMac
Grant Hill
Amare Stoudamire
Yao Ming
Ray Allen


Would be in that conversation

Hell, even Mitch Richmond and Joe Johnson are top 50 all time in points.

Embiid won MVP and had three seasons as a top two MVP vote getter. None of the players you mentioned came close to achieving that.

This is basically what I'm talking about though. I'm complaining about perception and you're submitting perception as evidence.

Getting MVP votes is not an achievement. It's a sentimental election that correlates with achievement. Sometimes more or less strongly. The fact, as I see it, is that Embiid *did* have a stretch where he was a top 3 player when healthy, but not a particularly long stretch, and also, his idea of taking care of his body is falling more to protect his foot. It's not all fate. But that's a separate discussion.

Remember all the nat'l writers who penciled the 6ers into the Finals when they signed Paul George? This is the disconnect I'm talking about. I'm not saying that healthy Joel Embiid isn't a great player. I'm saying no player has ever done less to achieve that level of reverence.

[emunney]

Read on Twitter

They can trade a 2-way guy they just signed?

[MickeyDavis]

Read on Twitter

[RRyder823]

The owners and players need to come together to amend the CBA before it expires in 5 years. I don't know if they can make it that long with there being such extreme salaries in each direction. Very good not great players are getting 57 million a year, while good players are netting a few mill.

That is not a product so much of the market rather restrictive rules. Teams are penny-pinching at the aprons but up to them they're splurging. Maybe just get rid of the 2nd apron & some hard-caps. But keep the 1st apron & punitive luxury tax. If they're spending the same what's the diff.

Or.... Now hear me out.... NBA teams are gonna just need to come to rationalization that they need to be smarter with how they spend their cap (which it does appear some are) instead of just paying every decent player 30 million a year

They can add more avenues to manipulate the cap sure but as it stands currently the system is working as intended.

Draft great for 3-4 years strait. Grats you're going to get 3-4 years of contention and then you better of either continued to draft well and made smart decisions on who you handed out big contracts to or you're going to have some not fun decisions to make.

Im failing to see how less players getting overpaid is a problem that needs fixing

DeAaron Foxes aren't worth 15 times more to year team's success than Gary Trents. The problem is the artificial disparity. A sub-sect is grossly underpaid, and another grossly underpaid.

And like Drew said earlier, teams would change this strategy if outside leagues came in scoop up the useful players in the regular, or even postseason. The NBA would be compelled to pay up, to have a leg up domestically and worldwide. As is, w/ the new rules, they can just build out their core+ as their 1st priority, and leave the rest w/ minimums cuz it's all they can legally spend. NBA teams would grossly underachieve their payrolls if they built that way in an int'l sport. We see that w/ MLS in futbol.

And like I said just hear me out..... Teams could just stop handing out the bad contracts and being smarter about the money they spend and then you wouldnt have the Fox's being paid 15xs more then the Trent which then leaves more for other players

I know I know. Something something cba cba. Heaven forbid teams simply be smart with their cap space



Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[GoldenAntlers]

I thought this was the expectation? That teams will have to adapt over time. I'm not arguing for or against, I just think this was expected. Some teams took note, some didn't, and others didn't care.

[BroncoBuck]

Can you think of a player who's been more celebrated for accomplishing less? Chris Paul absolutely does not qualify.

What do you mean by accomplishing less? I think Embiid has accomplished a ton.

https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/nba/rankings/2025/07/09/79-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/84525554007/
Hoopshype had him at 77, which is way too low IMHO.
How many guys have 1 MVP, 5 all-nba, 7 all-stars? Maybe 50? He doesn't have longevity stats but i think he comfortably ends up top 60 which isn't bad for a guy who was never healthy.

ETA: Embiid is just one of 36 guys to get the MVP.

I’d argue Embiid is the most skilled center of all time or at least right there with Hakeem. It sucks injuries have been so impactful on his career and he’s obviously not going to have the longevity Hakeem had. All time rankings definitely take a hit due to the shortened career, but he’s been unbelievable on the floor.

It’s also a reminder on how badly the Sixers mismanaged their assets. Letting Jimmy walk, trading up for Fultz, Ben Simmons mental breakdown, Harden fiasco, now the Paul George signing. Someday we’re going to get the documentary on who knew what regarding Fultz’s accident.

[jschligs]

What do you mean by accomplishing less? I think Embiid has accomplished a ton.

https://www.hoopshype.com/story/sports/nba/rankings/2025/07/09/79-greatest-nba-players-ever-hoopshype-list/84525554007/
Hoopshype had him at 77, which is way too low IMHO.
How many guys have 1 MVP, 5 all-nba, 7 all-stars? Maybe 50? He doesn't have longevity stats but i think he comfortably ends up top 60 which isn't bad for a guy who was never healthy.

ETA: Embiid is just one of 36 guys to get the MVP.

I’d argue Embiid is the most skilled center of all time or at least right there with Hakeem. It sucks injuries have been so impactful on his career and he’s obviously not going to have the longevity Hakeem had. All time rankings definitely take a hit due to the shortened career, but he’s been unbelievable on the floor.

It’s also a reminder on how badly the Sixers mismanaged their assets. Letting Jimmy walk, trading up for Fultz, Ben Simmons mental breakdown, Harden fiasco, now the Paul George signing. Someday we’re going to get the documentary on who knew what regarding Fultz’s accident.

Hakeem and Jokic are by far the most skilled centers. I'd even argue Kareem up there too. Not only could he score, rebound, and defend. He was a great passer as well.

I don't think I'd put Embiid in the top 3.

[midranger]

I think guys like

D Rose
TMac
Grant Hill
Amare Stoudamire
Yao Ming
Ray Allen


Would be in that conversation

Hell, even Mitch Richmond and Joe Johnson are top 50 all time in points.

Embiid won MVP and had three seasons as a top two MVP vote getter. None of the players you mentioned came close to achieving that.

This is basically what I'm talking about though. I'm complaining about perception and you're submitting perception as evidence.

Getting MVP votes is not an achievement. It's a sentimental election that correlates with achievement. Sometimes more or less strongly. The fact, as I see it, is that Embiid *did* have a stretch where he was a top 3 player when healthy, but not a particularly long stretch, and also, his idea of taking care of his body is falling more to protect his foot. It's not all fate. But that's a separate discussion.

Remember all the nat'l writers who penciled the 6ers into the Finals when they signed Paul George? This is the disconnect I'm talking about. I'm not saying that healthy Joel Embiid isn't a great player. I'm saying no player has ever done less to achieve that level of reverence.

On the same wavelength.

He was really good for a really short period. He was treated like the best player in the league and a huge playoff difference maker. He was never either.