Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors?

[YogurtProducer]

Probably, but even then, our success rate on true "hits" was like 50% and we were by far the best at hitting on them

50% on any draft slot would be pretty high, I imagine.

Except in the top 3-5 picks I would imagine so as well.

Even as great as Masai was on those picks, it was never sustainable. We found multiple all-stars/all-defence caliber guys in the late 1st/2nd/UDFA market in like 24 months. It was never a sustainable practice. No doubt we still would be able to find those Delons/Powells at higher rates than most teams, but even then, I am trading 3 Norms and Delons for Ingram any day of the week.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Probably, but even then, our success rate on true "hits" was like 50% and we were by far the best at hitting on them

50% on any draft slot would be pretty high, I imagine.

Except in the top 3-5 picks I would imagine so as well.

Even as great as Masai was on those picks, it was never sustainable. We found multiple all-stars/all-defence caliber guys in the late 1st/2nd/UDFA market in like 24 months. It was never a sustainable practice. No doubt we still would be able to find those Delons/Powells at higher rates than most teams, but even then, I am trading 3 Norms and Delons for Ingram any day of the week.

The drafting was above grade. The contracts and some other decisions however

[tsherkin]

Except in the top 3-5 picks I would imagine so as well.

Sounds about right to me.

Even as great as Masai was on those picks, it was never sustainable. We found multiple all-stars/all-defence caliber guys in the late 1st/2nd/UDFA market in like 24 months. It was never a sustainable practice. No doubt we still would be able to find those Delons/Powells at higher rates than most teams, but even then, I am trading 3 Norms and Delons for Ingram any day of the week.

Yeah, we landed pretty well for a while but like no one else in history has any real sustained level of huge success from there either, so... And as you say, a lot of those lower-level guys, I'd definitely send in bunches for an Ingram-caliber player.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I'd definitely send in bunches for an Ingram-caliber player.

He's not a difference maker.

[tsherkin]

He's not a difference maker.

This is very much inaccurate.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's not a difference maker.

This is very much inaccurate.

All the stuff they point to, is like "did you see this 20 game stretch". Eh.

[Raps in 4]

Lowe has always been a pretty bad analyst. I don't know why people like him.

lol yes, everyone that is negative on the Raptors is a bad analyst. Only Kendrick Perkins is a good analyst.

Ingram has played 65 games once in his career
Barnes didn't improve at all last year.
Poeltl isn't a great fit for the roster
The team is still light on shooting, the bench is mostly unproven.

There are valid reasons for pessimism.

I'm not high on this team at all. I think we're the poster child for mediocrity. I think going for the play-in with the BI trade instead of continuing to rebuild was stupid. But to argue that a team that won 30 games last season while missing most of their starters for the season and actively trying to lose will somehow be worse next season shows a complete lack of knowledge. Lowe isn't saying anything smart here.

[tsherkin]

All the stuff they point to, is like "did you see this 20 game stretch". Eh.

If he comes in and brings his average level of play from the past 300 games or so (aka 23/5.5/5 on 101 TS+ with 37.2% on 4.2 3PA/g), he's going to make a MAJOR change in our offense.

This isn't really something which can be sensibly argued. He instantly becomes the best scoring force on the team. He becomes the lead playmaker on the squad. He becomes a single-handed force in changing the texture of our 3pt attack (never mind Quick's return).

This is basic stuff.

Yes, he isn't a superstar. We shouldn't expect to be a top-5 offense. We won't be contenders. But he will author a major change in our team offense if he is any kind of healthy.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

All the stuff they point to, is like "did you see this 20 game stretch". Eh.

If he comes in and brings his average level of play from the past 300 games or so (aka 23/5.5/5 on 101 TS+ with 37.2% on 4.2 3PA/g), he's going to make a MAJOR change in our offense.

This isn't really something which can be sensibly argued. He instantly becomes the best scoring force on the team. He becomes the lead playmaker on the squad. He becomes a single-handed force in changing the texture of our 3pt attack (never mind Quick's return).

This is basic stuff.

Yes, he isn't a superstar. We shouldn't expect to be a top-5 offense. We won't be contenders. But he will author a major change in our team offense if he is any kind of healthy.

I liked him on the Lakers. That was a good role for him.

But that's still 2nd/3rd option stuff. It's hard to imagine a winning situation where we depend on him.

[tsherkin]

I liked him on the Lakers. That was a good role for him.

But that's still 2nd/3rd option stuff. It's hard to imagine a winning situation where we depend on him.

We're going to need follow-on moves regardless. But we can definitely be a second round team with him at the fore of our offense if he's healthy (granted, a big if).

[YogurtProducer]

He's not a difference maker.

This is very much inaccurate.

All the stuff they point to, is like "did you see this 20 game stretch". Eh.

Nope, they point to his entire career in which he was been a plus player in pretty poor situations.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

This is very much inaccurate.

All the stuff they point to, is like "did you see this 20 game stretch". Eh.

Nope, they point to his entire career in which he was been a plus player in pretty poor situations.

If I came in last summer and said BI would be our future next year. Like 98%+ of this forum would have called BS.

[ontnut]

Fair market value for BI is around what? 28M, maybe 30M. It's an L.

$26.5-$28m puts him in Wiggins, Vassell, Rozier, Simons range.
$30m is like CJ McCollum, Porzingis (both expiring).
Poole is $33m, Grant $34m, Jru $35m.
Ingram's market value is above all these guys. C'mon now.

He under performed his last contract, right?

Did he?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

$26.5-$28m puts him in Wiggins, Vassell, Rozier, Simons range.
$30m is like CJ McCollum, Porzingis (both expiring).
Poole is $33m, Grant $34m, Jru $35m.
Ingram's market value is above all these guys. C'mon now.

He under performed his last contract, right?

Did he?

I mean, if he's playing 20 games or so. That's a big affirmative.

[___Rand___]

I think this is what happens when there's a push to be as good as possible fast. No patience, and we try to be competitive right away after a year of failed tanking. I wonder where that push has been coming from? We've had some pivots in strategy and Webster's been at the center of it all so that makes me wonder about his abilities as a GM in terms of being a strategic thinker.

[Godaddycurse]

I think this is what happens when there's a push to be as good as possible fast. No patience, and we try to be competitive right away after a year of failed tanking. I wonder where that push has been coming from? We've had some pivots in strategy and Webster's been at the center of it all so that makes me wonder about his abilities as a GM in terms of being a strategic thinker.

technically its 2 years of failed tanking. ownership had enough

[canada_dry]

Lowe has always been a pretty bad analyst. I don't know why people like him.

lol yes, everyone that is negative on the Raptors is a bad analyst. Only Kendrick Perkins is a good analyst.

Ingram has played 65 games once in his career
Barnes didn't improve at all last year.
Poeltl isn't a great fit for the roster
The team is still light on shooting, the bench is mostly unproven.

There are valid reasons for pessimism.

Lol. Lowe is one of the best analysts out there.

On the otherhand Raps in 4 said BUDDY HIELD will carry the warriors past the wolves with steph down on the main board and that might not be the most egregious thing hes said over there, or here.

Take that analysis for what it is...

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I think this is what happens when there's a push to be as good as possible fast. No patience, and we try to be competitive right away after a year of failed tanking. I wonder where that push has been coming from? We've had some pivots in strategy and Webster's been at the center of it all so that makes me wonder about his abilities as a GM in terms of being a strategic thinker.

technically its 2 years of failed tanking. ownership had enough

He woke up half way through last year and said "Hey, I have no contract". Then they tried to sell us on BI being a deal they couldn't pass up. That turned out to be false.

[deck]

I think this is what happens when there's a push to be as good as possible fast. No patience, and we try to be competitive right away after a year of failed tanking. I wonder where that push has been coming from? We've had some pivots in strategy and Webster's been at the center of it all so that makes me wonder about his abilities as a GM in terms of being a strategic thinker.

Masai and Webster work for MLSE. Not all ownership groups are equal. It's naive to think that Masai or Webster have the leeway to tank for a prolonged period of time.

[Raps in 4]

Lowe has always been a pretty bad analyst. I don't know why people like him.

lol yes, everyone that is negative on the Raptors is a bad analyst. Only Kendrick Perkins is a good analyst.

Ingram has played 65 games once in his career
Barnes didn't improve at all last year.
Poeltl isn't a great fit for the roster
The team is still light on shooting, the bench is mostly unproven.

There are valid reasons for pessimism.

Lol. Lowe is one of the best analysts out there.

On the otherhand Raps in 4 said BUDDY HIELD will carry the warriors past the wolves with steph down on the main board and that might not be the most egregious thing hes said over there, or here.

Take that analysis for what it is...

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I didn't know Lowe was being sarcastic with his commentary.