Did Zach Lowe identify some convincing points for being low on Raptors?

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Cam Johnson also has a great contract and is arguably as good if not better than MPJ. All that considered, you give up a first for Cam Johnson and his great contract.

There are plenty of teams who would give up a first for Cam Johnson. The unprotected part probably was the incentive to include MPJ.

None of this matters, because Ingram is miles better than MPJ is anyways lol

So, I get to keep the Pacers pick...AND I get an unprotected first?

Ingram is better than MPJ. MPJ is just a spot up shooter. BI has more game than that.

Raps just bought low on him, because Pelicans couldn’t afford all of their players.

There is potential for his value to grow with the Raps. If he can perform well, and the Raps play above expectations (which is not hard), his value will increase, as I’m sure some of that progress will be attributed to BI.

Even if they come back and say "No Cam, so all we can offer is top 10 protected". It's still an easy choice. MPJ's owed less money, is more durable.

[JB7]

So, I get to keep the Pacers pick...AND I get an unprotected first?

Ingram is better than MPJ. MPJ is just a spot up shooter. BI has more game than that.

Raps just bought low on him, because Pelicans couldn’t afford all of their players.

There is potential for his value to grow with the Raps. If he can perform well, and the Raps play above expectations (which is not hard), his value will increase, as I’m sure some of that progress will be attributed to BI.

Even if they come back and say "No Cam, so all we can offer is top 10 protected". It's still an easy choice. MPJ's owed less money, is more durable.

MPJ is not more durable than BI. Both are injury prone. BI’s contract is not that restrictive, and could actually be viewed positively if he performs well.

MPJ’s contract gives some more flexibility, but even if they don’t pick up the full year next season (26-27), it is costing the Nets money and they don’t even get the benefit of having MPJ. My guess is the Nets fully guarantee 26-27, and then offer him as an expiring deal to teams, that trade deadline.

So MPJ’s deal could pay out of exactly the same as BI, assuming BI performs well in his prime years and then opts out to capitalize on that performance.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Ingram is better than MPJ. MPJ is just a spot up shooter. BI has more game than that.

Raps just bought low on him, because Pelicans couldn’t afford all of their players.

There is potential for his value to grow with the Raps. If he can perform well, and the Raps play above expectations (which is not hard), his value will increase, as I’m sure some of that progress will be attributed to BI.

Even if they come back and say "No Cam, so all we can offer is top 10 protected". It's still an easy choice. MPJ's owed less money, is more durable.

MPJ is not more durable than BI. Both are injury prone. BI’s contract is not that restrictive, and could actually be viewed positively if he performs well.

MPJ’s contract gives some more flexibility, but even if they don’t pick up the full year next season (26-27), it is costing the Nets money and they don’t even get the benefit of having MPJ. My guess is the Nets fully guarantee 26-27, and then offer him as an expiring deal to teams, that trade deadline.

So MPJ’s deal could pay out of exactly the same as BI, assuming BI performs well in his prime years and then opts out to capitalize on that performance.

They both suck for durability. That's why getting off those contracts matter. It's not something you hold and it appreciates.

*That being said, MPJ is a 40M expiring after this year.

[JB7]

Even if they come back and say "No Cam, so all we can offer is top 10 protected". It's still an easy choice. MPJ's owed less money, is more durable.

MPJ is not more durable than BI. Both are injury prone. BI’s contract is not that restrictive, and could actually be viewed positively if he performs well.

MPJ’s contract gives some more flexibility, but even if they don’t pick up the full year next season (26-27), it is costing the Nets money and they don’t even get the benefit of having MPJ. My guess is the Nets fully guarantee 26-27, and then offer him as an expiring deal to teams, that trade deadline.

So MPJ’s deal could pay out of exactly the same as BI, assuming BI performs well in his prime years and then opts out to capitalize on that performance.

They both suck for durability. That's why getting off those contracts matter. It's not something you hold and it appreciates.

*That being said, MPJ is a 40M expiring after this year.

If BI performs well, he’ll be the same - $40M expiring

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

MPJ is not more durable than BI. Both are injury prone. BI’s contract is not that restrictive, and could actually be viewed positively if he performs well.

MPJ’s contract gives some more flexibility, but even if they don’t pick up the full year next season (26-27), it is costing the Nets money and they don’t even get the benefit of having MPJ. My guess is the Nets fully guarantee 26-27, and then offer him as an expiring deal to teams, that trade deadline.

So MPJ’s deal could pay out of exactly the same as BI, assuming BI performs well in his prime years and then opts out to capitalize on that performance.

They both suck for durability. That's why getting off those contracts matter. It's not something you hold and it appreciates.

*That being said, MPJ is a 40M expiring after this year.

If BI performs well, he’ll be the same - $40M expiring

Nope, player option. We got the worst possible end of the stick.

[tsherkin]

They both suck for durability. That's why getting off those contracts matter. It's not something you hold and it appreciates.

*That being said, MPJ is a 40M expiring after this year.

If BI performs well, he’ll be the same - $40M expiring

Nope, player option. We got the worst possible end of the stick.

So he becomes a 42 mil expiring the year after. What's the super worry? It isn't a lengthy contract.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If BI performs well, he’ll be the same - $40M expiring

Nope, player option. We got the worst possible end of the stick.

So he becomes a 42 mil expiring the year after. What's the super worry? It isn't a lengthy contract.

Who was asking for him? Nobody. Right?

Rich Paul is basically calling our front office soft at this point. Bobby should be gone too.

[tsherkin]

Who was asking for him? Nobody. Right?

Rich Paul is basically calling our front office soft at this point. Bobby should be gone too.

It's done. He isn't interrupting us from signing anyone franchise-changing over the next three years. Bitching about it every 5 seconds isn't going to change anything, and us having him on the books isn't actually a big deal. And if he's healthy-ish, he'll make us much better on O.

Time to move on

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Who was asking for him? Nobody. Right?

Rich Paul is basically calling our front office soft at this point. Bobby should be gone too.

It's done. He isn't interrupting us from signing anyone franchise-changing over the next three years. Bitching about it every 5 seconds isn't going to change anything, and us having him on the books isn't actually a big deal. And if he's healthy-ish, he'll make us much better on O.

Time to move on

People who take a year off for ankle rolls, aren't "healthy-ish". Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

[tsherkin]

People who take a year off for ankle rolls, aren't "healthy-ish". Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

People on teams with crap medical leading in? Yeah, I've seen that before. We'll see what happens when he spends the season with us. Maybe he goes down, maybe he doesn't. Meantime, we just have to wait and see.

[JB7]

They both suck for durability. That's why getting off those contracts matter. It's not something you hold and it appreciates.

*That being said, MPJ is a 40M expiring after this year.

If BI performs well, he’ll be the same - $40M expiring

Nope, player option. We got the worst possible end of the stick.

If he performs well, he is opting out of the 3rd year. He wanted the opt out, to give himself the chance at another big contract.

[JB7]

Who was asking for him? Nobody. Right?

Rich Paul is basically calling our front office soft at this point. Bobby should be gone too.

It's done. He isn't interrupting us from signing anyone franchise-changing over the next three years. Bitching about it every 5 seconds isn't going to change anything, and us having him on the books isn't actually a big deal. And if he's healthy-ish, he'll make us much better on O.

Time to move on

People who take a year off for ankle rolls, aren't "healthy-ish". Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

Raps sat him the rest of the season because they were tanking. Easiest way to tank. Just don’t play your starters. He agreed to it, because they already had an extension in place.

[ontnut]

Nah.
The Warriors just got Jimmy for Andrew Wiggins, Dennis Schroder, Kyle Anderson, Lindy Waters and a first. Wiggins contract value was viewed as bad enough that people were also saying the Warriors needed to pay to get off it. Anderson was also bad. Schroder was essentially a rental. And they got Jimmy for it.

Everyone said Lavine was a toxic contract and he was an injury prone, empty stats guy - and they got back Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter and their own 1st rounder back for him.

I'm really not that concerned about recouping our 1st if it comes down to us needing to trade Ingram down the line - with the exception of course being Ingram is injured at the time.

I don’t think any of our players will be difficult to trade. The contract thing is just a talking point one person brought up and now everyone else repeats it. I would love for analysts to never listen to other analysts and give their own views. It will most likely show how much these guys don’t follow 80% of the teams they talk about.

Give Quickley a healthy season and he will make that contract look acceptable.

MPJ just cost the Nuggets an un-protected first. The same money we just gave BI, but BI has a player option for a third. So, it's actually worse if it goes bad.

Um. First off, MPJ helped win them a chip. Second, the Nuggets also got back Cam Johnson, a better player overall and better fit for their team - who also happens to be making only $21m for the next 2 years, and thus allowed them to also sign Bruce Brown, THJ and JV.. So...yeah. If we get a better player back than BI and save half the money, which allows us to sign multiple solid FAs, I'd be ok with giving up a 2032 first too. Nevermind the fact that in terms of cap %, BI is getting paid LESS than MPJ was at the time of their signings. Context, sir.

I was actually proposing that Cam would be a solid fit here too, but was laughed at. Nuggets FO thought he was worth it though, maybe we're both dumdums.

[Merit]

Who was asking for him? Nobody. Right?

Rich Paul is basically calling our front office soft at this point. Bobby should be gone too.

It's done. He isn't interrupting us from signing anyone franchise-changing over the next three years. Bitching about it every 5 seconds isn't going to change anything, and us having him on the books isn't actually a big deal. And if he's healthy-ish, he'll make us much better on O.

Time to move on

I’d also like to add that the Raptors have historically found it difficult to attract free agents. Think of this as effectively a free agent signing and the first was payment because we wouldn’t have been able to sign him otherwise. Maybe there weren’t many suitors but to call this contract an albatross is nonsense. I can’t wait to hear your shift in perspective after the season starts.

Also, who tf cares what Rich Paul thinks? The only time his word means anything is if we’re trying to sign his clients. His literal job is to spin in favour of his own. He’s doing that. Don’t fall for it.

Even further - how did you determine Bobby has to go? If anything, the front office stability is an asset, especially considering they let Masai go.

[Merit]

I don’t think any of our players will be difficult to trade. The contract thing is just a talking point one person brought up and now everyone else repeats it. I would love for analysts to never listen to other analysts and give their own views. It will most likely show how much these guys don’t follow 80% of the teams they talk about.

Give Quickley a healthy season and he will make that contract look acceptable.

MPJ just cost the Nuggets an un-protected first. The same money we just gave BI, but BI has a player option for a third. So, it's actually worse if it goes bad.

Um. First off, MPJ helped win them a chip. Second, the Nuggets also got back Cam Johnson, a better player overall and better fit for their team - who also happens to be making only $21m for the next 2 years, and thus allowed them to also sign Bruce Brown, THJ and JV.. So...yeah. If we get a better player back than BI and save half the money, which allows us to sign multiple solid FAs, I'd be ok with giving up a 2032 first too. Nevermind the fact that in terms of cap %, BI is getting paid LESS than MPJ was at the time of their signings. Context, sir.

I was actually proposing that Cam would be a solid fit here too, but was laughed at. Nuggets FO thought he was worth it though, maybe we're both dumdums.

Denver had possibly the best offseason in the game. They are deep enough to get to the finals again next year. Not everyone is gifted the option to get out of an underperforming asset for a first. It just so happens Brooklyn is in peak sell off mode. I for one was not averse to cam, but BI is just better than he is, and we needed a #1 scoring option more than a complementary one.

[Merit]

It's done. He isn't interrupting us from signing anyone franchise-changing over the next three years. Bitching about it every 5 seconds isn't going to change anything, and us having him on the books isn't actually a big deal. And if he's healthy-ish, he'll make us much better on O.

Time to move on

People who take a year off for ankle rolls, aren't "healthy-ish". Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

Raps sat him the rest of the season because they were tanking. Easiest way to tank. Just don’t play your starters. He agreed to it, because they already had an extension in place.

…and because he was legitimately recovering. If there’s anything I have faith in it’s Alex McKechnie’s ability to rehabilitate players. Exhibit A: Kawhi.

[causal_fan]

People who take a year off for ankle rolls, aren't "healthy-ish". Have you ever seen that before? I haven't.

Raps sat him the rest of the season because they were tanking. Easiest way to tank. Just don’t play your starters. He agreed to it, because they already had an extension in place.

…and because he was legitimately recovering. If there’s anything I have faith in it’s Alex McKechnie’s ability to rehabilitate players. Exhibit A: Kawhi.

And who's Exhibit B? - Kawhi was a long time ago and Alex McKechnie didn't seem to prevent all those injuries last season. BI is drifting into chronic injury territory IMO - He's not played 65 games in a season since his rookie campaign and odds are he's not going meet that threshold this coming season especially with him getting paid.

[___Rand___]

I think this is what happens when there's a push to be as good as possible fast. No patience, and we try to be competitive right away after a year of failed tanking. I wonder where that push has been coming from? We've had some pivots in strategy and Webster's been at the center of it all so that makes me wonder about his abilities as a GM in terms of being a strategic thinker.

Masai and Webster work for MLSE. Not all ownership groups are equal. It's naive to think that Masai or Webster have the leeway to tank for a prolonged period of time.

Yes that is what I am hinting at with "I wonder where that push has been coming from?" It has to be MLSE. And in some ways, yes we needed to do better, and our record post 2019 hasn't been good. In hindsight, now that the emotional shock is over, Masai wasn't living up to his contract. And Bobby deserves some of the blame too.

[___Rand___]

Nah.
The Warriors just got Jimmy for Andrew Wiggins, Dennis Schroder, Kyle Anderson, Lindy Waters and a first. Wiggins contract value was viewed as bad enough that people were also saying the Warriors needed to pay to get off it. Anderson was also bad. Schroder was essentially a rental. And they got Jimmy for it.

Everyone said Lavine was a toxic contract and he was an injury prone, empty stats guy - and they got back Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Kevin Huerter and their own 1st rounder back for him.

I'm really not that concerned about recouping our 1st if it comes down to us needing to trade Ingram down the line - with the exception of course being Ingram is injured at the time.

I don’t think any of our players will be difficult to trade. The contract thing is just a talking point one person brought up and now everyone else repeats it. I would love for analysts to never listen to other analysts and give their own views. It will most likely show how much these guys don’t follow 80% of the teams they talk about.

Give Quickley a healthy season and he will make that contract look acceptable.

Yah. IQ's deal is probably our most negatively-perceived contract, and now looking at the deal Fox just got...I don't see how IQ is "immovable", or that we'd need to attach picks. Even as-is, we can move him for something in return - but I'm still optimistic on him having a strong season this upcoming season.

Reaves turned down a 4 year $90m deal and is looking for a $30+AAV deal. Clearly his agent thinks he's worth it. I don't think Reaves is any better than IQ....

I didn't think IQ's deal was way overpriced at the time it was given out. I thought it was rich but not insane. I don't think there was as much chatter about that contract until end of last season when the team and him weren't performing. And in the context of the hyperinflation that we're seeing in contracts, people will have to do a revision to their opinions. Just like everyone else, I think we have talent, some pieces. I just don't know about the "fit". Which is the recurring theme of roster construction post 2019.

[ontnut]

MPJ just cost the Nuggets an un-protected first. The same money we just gave BI, but BI has a player option for a third. So, it's actually worse if it goes bad.

Um. First off, MPJ helped win them a chip. Second, the Nuggets also got back Cam Johnson, a better player overall and better fit for their team - who also happens to be making only $21m for the next 2 years, and thus allowed them to also sign Bruce Brown, THJ and JV.. So...yeah. If we get a better player back than BI and save half the money, which allows us to sign multiple solid FAs, I'd be ok with giving up a 2032 first too. Nevermind the fact that in terms of cap %, BI is getting paid LESS than MPJ was at the time of their signings. Context, sir.

I was actually proposing that Cam would be a solid fit here too, but was laughed at. Nuggets FO thought he was worth it though, maybe we're both dumdums.

Denver had possibly the best offseason in the game. They are deep enough to get to the finals again next year. Not everyone is gifted the option to get out of an underperforming asset for a first. It just so happens Brooklyn is in peak sell off mode. I for one was not averse to cam, but BI is just better than he is, and we needed a #1 scoring option more than a complementary one.

Agree on most points. BI is better for this team.
But on the " getting out of underperforming asset" part, the only two I can recall off the top of my head were the Beal and Lillard deals where they had to eat it. Beal's deal was catastrophic from the moment it was signed, and Lillard's was really only because he's out for the year (although the trade was bad business to begin with). What was the last 20ppg-near-allstar contract that had to be paid to get off? Wiggins, Lavine both got traded for value. Derozan got moved for next to nothing which was just weird business on the part of the Bulls, but I'd argue BI has way more utility/tradeability in 2025 than Derozan.