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rajajackal wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Nobody wants to work for Mike brown
nah he's well liked. they don't want to be called associate head coach/lead assistant while the star player's daddy is on the bench undermining that role
spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Nobody wants to work for Mike brown
Borrego did but they didn’t let him. Can’t assume the other ones we haven’t signed are all Brown’s fault. The Indy guy seems like a legit concern… his family n loyalty to Carlisle.
There’s a lot of things to consider when taking the job. We’re not exactly the top preferred destination for a lot of people, players included… our fans are psychotic n irrational (look at the tweets KAT got after the trade), media is rabid n nasty, ownership and FO kinda have a sleazy n shady rep… no way it’s all on Brown.
Gravy wrote:Mr_President wrote:Everyone needs to chill out. When have you ever seen an assistant coach search covered in the media as much as we're seeing with Mike Brown's staff?
This is the NY media and #knicksforclicks again - they're covering everything simply because it's the Knicks, and people will click.
I'm sure other asst. coaching staff searches went exactly like this, but no one knew or cared because it was in Milwaukee or Indiana.
Have our previous coaching searches had as much rejections as this one? Also, fans said we would have our pick of whoever we wanted but that is not the case.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Nobody wants to work for Mike brown
Borrego did but they didn’t let him. Can’t assume the other ones we haven’t signed are all Brown’s fault. The Indy guy seems like a legit concern… his family n loyalty to Carlisle.
There’s a lot of things to consider when taking the job. We’re not exactly the top preferred destination for a lot of people, players included… our fans are psychotic n irrational (look at the tweets KAT got after the trade), media is rabid n nasty, ownership and FO kinda have a sleazy n shady rep… no way it’s all on Brown.
We don't even know if Borrego wanted to come here either. We only know that the Knicks were thirsty for him.
We didn't have an issue stealing top assistant coaches from other teams to join Thibs (Johnnie Bryant, Mark Bryant, Kenny Payne, etc). Sounds like to me nobody wants really wants to be an assistant for Mike Brown.
3toheadmelo wrote:Gravy wrote:Mr_President wrote:Everyone needs to chill out. When have you ever seen an assistant coach search covered in the media as much as we're seeing with Mike Brown's staff?
This is the NY media and #knicksforclicks again - they're covering everything simply because it's the Knicks, and people will click.
I'm sure other asst. coaching staff searches went exactly like this, but no one knew or cared because it was in Milwaukee or Indiana.
Have our previous coaching searches had as much rejections as this one? Also, fans said we would have our pick of whoever we wanted but that is not the case.
We didn't have a problem getting top assistants to join Thibs. We have a Mike Brown problem.
spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:
Borrego did but they didn’t let him. Can’t assume the other ones we haven’t signed are all Brown’s fault. The Indy guy seems like a legit concern… his family n loyalty to Carlisle.
There’s a lot of things to consider when taking the job. We’re not exactly the top preferred destination for a lot of people, players included… our fans are psychotic n irrational (look at the tweets KAT got after the trade), media is rabid n nasty, ownership and FO kinda have a sleazy n shady rep… no way it’s all on Brown.
We don't even know if Borrego wanted to come here either. We only know that the Knicks were thirsty for him.
We didn't have an issue stealing top assistant coaches from other teams to join Thibs (Johnnie Bryant, Mark Bryant, Kenny Payne, etc). Sounds like to me nobody wants really wants to be an assistant for Mike Brown.
Borrego interviewed for the head coaching position so that’s a pretty strong indicator that he was willing to join the organization. He’s currently an associate head coach for the worst organization in the league… I don’t think it’s difficult to assume that he would prefer to do that same job here where he wanted to be, and have a chance at a ring. It’s just that NOP denied him that lateral move.
Johnnie Bryant was a development coach with minimal experience in another small market. I wouldn’t say that’s comparable to the type of experienced associate head coach we’re looking for right now. He was an easy get… someone looking to make the leap to further their career, just like he was an easy get now for the head coach position but we passed because we’re looking for someone with more experience.
Mark Bryant and Kenny Payne are also nowhere near the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. These are apples to oranges comparisons.
We all know you hate Brown lol, I think that’s the driving force behind your perspective. Looking at the stuff that’s come out about the FO and seeing how they conduct themselves, added to what everyone already knows about the fans n media… I think there’s far more reasons to point the finger there. There’s also their own personal reasons.. like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr in the past. Blaming Mike Brown 100% is just hating… you know that lol.
Gravy wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Gravy wrote:Have our previous coaching searches had as much rejections as this one? Also, fans said we would have our pick of whoever we wanted but that is not the case.
We didn't have a problem getting top assistants to join Thibs. We have a Mike Brown problem.
Probably has to do with the situation here too, if they fired Thibs for getting to the ECF then they could easily be fired next. Coaches might not believe this roster is as easy a fix as people say it is.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:We don't even know if Borrego wanted to come here either. We only know that the Knicks were thirsty for him.
We didn't have an issue stealing top assistant coaches from other teams to join Thibs (Johnnie Bryant, Mark Bryant, Kenny Payne, etc). Sounds like to me nobody wants really wants to be an assistant for Mike Brown.
Borrego interviewed for the head coaching position so that’s a pretty strong indicator that he was willing to join the organization. He’s currently an associate head coach for the worst organization in the league… I don’t think it’s difficult to assume that he would prefer to do that same job here where he wanted to be, and have a chance at a ring. It’s just that NOP denied him that lateral move.
Johnnie Bryant was a development coach with minimal experience in another small market. I wouldn’t say that’s comparable to the type of experienced associate head coach we’re looking for right now. He was an easy get… someone looking to make the leap to further their career, just like he was an easy get now for the head coach position but we passed because we’re looking for someone with more experience.
Mark Bryant and Kenny Payne are also nowhere near the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. These are apples to oranges comparisons.
We all know you hate Brown lol, I think that’s the driving force behind your perspective. Looking at the stuff that’s come out about the FO and seeing how they conduct themselves, added to what everyone already knows about the fans n media… I think there’s far more reasons to point the finger there. There’s also their own personal reasons.. like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr in the past. Blaming Mike Brown 100% is just hating… you know that lol.
Borrego wanted to join as a head coach though. Not as an assistant.
Johnnie Bryant was one of the top assistants in the league when we hired him. Mark Bryant has one of the best reputations in the league as a big man coach and we stole Kenny Payne from Kentucky who also had a really good reputation and nobody thought he would leave them. Thibs even got Mike woody to join him. You think guys like Prigioni who turned us down is on their level?
You hate Thibs too so you’re being biased about this whole thing. But pretty much every media outlet has called our whole coaching search a failure and a laughing joke about how we keep getting rejected left and right. That’s the reality man. You in denial about this tho.
3toheadmelo wrote:Gravy wrote:Mr_President wrote:Everyone needs to chill out. When have you ever seen an assistant coach search covered in the media as much as we're seeing with Mike Brown's staff?
This is the NY media and #knicksforclicks again - they're covering everything simply because it's the Knicks, and people will click.
I'm sure other asst. coaching staff searches went exactly like this, but no one knew or cared because it was in Milwaukee or Indiana.
Have our previous coaching searches had as much rejections as this one? Also, fans said we would have our pick of whoever we wanted but that is not the case.
We didn't have a problem getting top assistants to join Thibs. We have a Mike Brown problem.
spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:
Borrego interviewed for the head coaching position so that’s a pretty strong indicator that he was willing to join the organization. He’s currently an associate head coach for the worst organization in the league… I don’t think it’s difficult to assume that he would prefer to do that same job here where he wanted to be, and have a chance at a ring. It’s just that NOP denied him that lateral move.
Johnnie Bryant was a development coach with minimal experience in another small market. I wouldn’t say that’s comparable to the type of experienced associate head coach we’re looking for right now. He was an easy get… someone looking to make the leap to further their career, just like he was an easy get now for the head coach position but we passed because we’re looking for someone with more experience.
Mark Bryant and Kenny Payne are also nowhere near the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. These are apples to oranges comparisons.
We all know you hate Brown lol, I think that’s the driving force behind your perspective. Looking at the stuff that’s come out about the FO and seeing how they conduct themselves, added to what everyone already knows about the fans n media… I think there’s far more reasons to point the finger there. There’s also their own personal reasons.. like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr in the past. Blaming Mike Brown 100% is just hating… you know that lol.
Borrego wanted to join as a head coach though. Not as an assistant.
Johnnie Bryant was one of the top assistants in the league when we hired him. Mark Bryant has one of the best reputations in the league as a big man coach and we stole Kenny Payne from Kentucky who also had a really good reputation and nobody thought he would leave them. Thibs even got Mike woody to join him. You think guys like Prigioni who turned us down is on their level?
You hate Thibs too so you’re being biased about this whole thing. But pretty much every media outlet has called our whole coaching search a failure and a laughing joke about how we keep getting rejected left and right. That’s the reality man. You in denial about this tho.
Denial? Biased? How? It has nothing to do with Thibs… dude has been gone for months now…when coaches and players leave this team, I let it go. Few weeks to talk about it n that’s it… time to move on.
Na, Bryant wasn’t one of the “top” assistants in the league at all. Mike Woodson left here n went to LA to be an assistant for a couple years and back here as an assistant again before leaving the league for years… he’s not a great coach… I’m sure he’d jump at this job if it were offered and SAC let him, but it’s a lateral move. Mark, a big man coach, isn’t on an associate head coach level… that’s my point. Kenny…from college? Cmon man, you’re not making a case for these guys being on the level of what we’re looking for right now. Like I said, it’s apples to oranges.
Media trashing the Knicks is nothing new tho. It’s how they get attention and money. Large fanbase with a reputation for hostility, that hasn’t seen a ring in 50 years? Say shyt to piss them off… keeps them coming back… Knicks for clicks. You should know this. Me personally, idgaf what they say, I loved our offseason lol.
He was one of the top assistant coaches in college basketball with Kentucky and one of the highest-paid assistants in the NBA. He was reportedly making over $1.5 million annually with the Knicks.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Borrego wanted to join as a head coach though. Not as an assistant.
Johnnie Bryant was one of the top assistants in the league when we hired him. Mark Bryant has one of the best reputations in the league as a big man coach and we stole Kenny Payne from Kentucky who also had a really good reputation and nobody thought he would leave them. Thibs even got Mike woody to join him. You think guys like Prigioni who turned us down is on their level?
You hate Thibs too so you’re being biased about this whole thing. But pretty much every media outlet has called our whole coaching search a failure and a laughing joke about how we keep getting rejected left and right. That’s the reality man. You in denial about this tho.
Denial? Biased? How? It has nothing to do with Thibs… dude has been gone for months now…when coaches and players leave this team, I let it go. Few weeks to talk about it n that’s it… time to move on.
Na, Bryant wasn’t one of the “top” assistants in the league at all. Mike Woodson left here n went to LA to be an assistant for a couple years and back here as an assistant again before leaving the league for years… he’s not a great coach… I’m sure he’d jump at this job if it were offered and SAC let him, but it’s a lateral move. Mark, a big man coach, isn’t on an associate head coach level… that’s my point. Kenny…from college? Cmon man, you’re not making a case for these guys being on the level of what we’re looking for right now. Like I said, it’s apples to oranges.
Media trashing the Knicks is nothing new tho. It’s how they get attention and money. Large fanbase with a reputation for hostility, that hasn’t seen a ring in 50 years? Say shyt to piss them off… keeps them coming back… Knicks for clicks. You should know this. Me personally, idgaf what they say, I loved our offseason lol.
Im saying you dislike Thibs so much to the point where you think any coach we get is an instant upgrade, that's why you love this offseason
You're bugging about Mark Bryant. He's very well known. I actually knew who he was when the Knicks hired him.
Mike Woodson is def way better than someone like Prigioni in terms of coaching. Im not sure how that's even debatable. Be fr man lol
Kenny Payne was someone who was viewed as one of the TOP assistants in college basketball.. we literally gave him the bag so he can leave Kentucky.He was one of the top assistant coaches in college basketball with Kentucky and one of the highest-paid assistants in the NBA. He was reportedly making over $1.5 million annually with the Knicks.
You not being truthful if you saying these guys weren't viewed as top coaches when we got them. It really is apples to oranges when you compare them to someone like Prigoni who doesn't even want to join Mike Brown.
The media actually stopped clowning us for a bit after Thibs made us relevant again. Barely any "lol knicks" since Thibs came on board. But it's no secret that our coaching search has been an absolute mess. That's not the media just looking for clicks, it's just reality. And it's really Dolan's fault. He got Thibs fired and it put Leon and FO in a bad spot. They had no plans on firing Thibs until Dolan stepped in so now they went scrambling for a head coach and the only coach we can get is an outdated coach in Mike Brown. Now our problem is we can't even get top assistants to join him. I mean it's bad to the point where we're keeping a bunch of Thibs leftovers because he's struggling to get people to join him. When Thibs came on board in 2020 he completely changed the whole coaching staff with ease. Why? Because Thibs had no problem recruiting other coaches to join him.
Jay10 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:
Denial? Biased? How? It has nothing to do with Thibs… dude has been gone for months now…when coaches and players leave this team, I let it go. Few weeks to talk about it n that’s it… time to move on.
Na, Bryant wasn’t one of the “top” assistants in the league at all. Mike Woodson left here n went to LA to be an assistant for a couple years and back here as an assistant again before leaving the league for years… he’s not a great coach… I’m sure he’d jump at this job if it were offered and SAC let him, but it’s a lateral move. Mark, a big man coach, isn’t on an associate head coach level… that’s my point. Kenny…from college? Cmon man, you’re not making a case for these guys being on the level of what we’re looking for right now. Like I said, it’s apples to oranges.
Media trashing the Knicks is nothing new tho. It’s how they get attention and money. Large fanbase with a reputation for hostility, that hasn’t seen a ring in 50 years? Say shyt to piss them off… keeps them coming back… Knicks for clicks. You should know this. Me personally, idgaf what they say, I loved our offseason lol.
Im saying you dislike Thibs so much to the point where you think any coach we get is an instant upgrade, that's why you love this offseason
You're bugging about Mark Bryant. He's very well known. I actually knew who he was when the Knicks hired him.
Mike Woodson is def way better than someone like Prigioni in terms of coaching. Im not sure how that's even debatable. Be fr man lol
Kenny Payne was someone who was viewed as one of the TOP assistants in college basketball.. we literally gave him the bag so he can leave Kentucky.He was one of the top assistant coaches in college basketball with Kentucky and one of the highest-paid assistants in the NBA. He was reportedly making over $1.5 million annually with the Knicks.
You not being truthful if you saying these guys weren't viewed as top coaches when we got them. It really is apples to oranges when you compare them to someone like Prigoni who doesn't even want to join Mike Brown.
The media actually stopped clowning us for a bit after Thibs made us relevant again. Barely any "lol knicks" since Thibs came on board. But it's no secret that our coaching search has been an absolute mess. That's not the media just looking for clicks, it's just reality. And it's really Dolan's fault. He got Thibs fired and it put Leon and FO in a bad spot. They had no plans on firing Thibs until Dolan stepped in so now they went scrambling for a head coach and the only coach we can get is an outdated coach in Mike Brown. Now our problem is we can't even get top assistants to join him. I mean it's bad to the point where we're keeping a bunch of Thibs leftovers because he's struggling to get people to join him. When Thibs came on board in 2020 he completely changed the whole coaching staff with ease. Why? Because Thibs had no problem recruiting other coaches to join him.
You do realize Mark Bryant, Mo Cheeks, Mike Woodson, Kenny Payne, and Johnnie Bryant were all William Wesley hires, and Leon or Wesley actually hired Rick Brunson? Thibodeau guys were the ones that got fired.
The front office forced Thibodeau to add two assistant coaches — Johnnie Bryant and Kenny Payne — onto the staff as a condition of his hiring in 2020, sources tell Bondy. Should Thibodeau be fired, Bondy believes either of those coaches could named the next head coach.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Borrego wanted to join as a head coach though. Not as an assistant.
Johnnie Bryant was one of the top assistants in the league when we hired him. Mark Bryant has one of the best reputations in the league as a big man coach and we stole Kenny Payne from Kentucky who also had a really good reputation and nobody thought he would leave them. Thibs even got Mike woody to join him. You think guys like Prigioni who turned us down is on their level?
You hate Thibs too so you’re being biased about this whole thing. But pretty much every media outlet has called our whole coaching search a failure and a laughing joke about how we keep getting rejected left and right. That’s the reality man. You in denial about this tho.
Denial? Biased? How? It has nothing to do with Thibs… dude has been gone for months now…when coaches and players leave this team, I let it go. Few weeks to talk about it n that’s it… time to move on.
Na, Bryant wasn’t one of the “top” assistants in the league at all. Mike Woodson left here n went to LA to be an assistant for a couple years and back here as an assistant again before leaving the league for years… he’s not a great coach… I’m sure he’d jump at this job if it were offered and SAC let him, but it’s a lateral move. Mark, a big man coach, isn’t on an associate head coach level… that’s my point. Kenny…from college? Cmon man, you’re not making a case for these guys being on the level of what we’re looking for right now. Like I said, it’s apples to oranges.
Media trashing the Knicks is nothing new tho. It’s how they get attention and money. Large fanbase with a reputation for hostility, that hasn’t seen a ring in 50 years? Say shyt to piss them off… keeps them coming back… Knicks for clicks. You should know this. Me personally, idgaf what they say, I loved our offseason lol.
Im saying you dislike Thibs so much to the point where you think any coach we get is an instant upgrade, that's why you love this offseason
You're bugging about Mark Bryant. He's very well known. I actually knew who he was when the Knicks hired him.
Mike Woodson is def way better than someone like Prigioni in terms of coaching. Im not sure how that's even debatable. Be fr man lol
Kenny Payne was someone who was viewed as one of the TOP assistants in college basketball.. we literally gave him the bag so he can leave Kentucky.He was one of the top assistant coaches in college basketball with Kentucky and one of the highest-paid assistants in the NBA. He was reportedly making over $1.5 million annually with the Knicks.
You not being truthful if you saying these guys weren't viewed as top coaches when we got them. It really is apples to oranges when you compare them to someone like Prigoni who doesn't even want to join Mike Brown.
The media actually stopped clowning us for a bit after Thibs made us relevant again. Barely any "lol knicks" since Thibs came on board. But it's no secret that our coaching search has been an absolute mess. That's not the media just looking for clicks, it's just reality. And it's really Dolan's fault. He got Thibs fired and it put Leon and FO in a bad spot. They had no plans on firing Thibs until Dolan stepped in so now they went scrambling for a head coach and the only coach we can get is an outdated coach in Mike Brown. Now our problem is we can't even get top assistants to join him. I mean it's bad to the point where we're keeping a bunch of Thibs leftovers because he's struggling to get people to join him. When Thibs came on board in 2020 he completely changed the whole coaching staff with ease. Why? Because Thibs had no problem recruiting other coaches to join him.
spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:
Denial? Biased? How? It has nothing to do with Thibs… dude has been gone for months now…when coaches and players leave this team, I let it go. Few weeks to talk about it n that’s it… time to move on.
Na, Bryant wasn’t one of the “top” assistants in the league at all. Mike Woodson left here n went to LA to be an assistant for a couple years and back here as an assistant again before leaving the league for years… he’s not a great coach… I’m sure he’d jump at this job if it were offered and SAC let him, but it’s a lateral move. Mark, a big man coach, isn’t on an associate head coach level… that’s my point. Kenny…from college? Cmon man, you’re not making a case for these guys being on the level of what we’re looking for right now. Like I said, it’s apples to oranges.
Media trashing the Knicks is nothing new tho. It’s how they get attention and money. Large fanbase with a reputation for hostility, that hasn’t seen a ring in 50 years? Say shyt to piss them off… keeps them coming back… Knicks for clicks. You should know this. Me personally, idgaf what they say, I loved our offseason lol.
Im saying you dislike Thibs so much to the point where you think any coach we get is an instant upgrade, that's why you love this offseason
You're bugging about Mark Bryant. He's very well known. I actually knew who he was when the Knicks hired him.
Mike Woodson is def way better than someone like Prigioni in terms of coaching. Im not sure how that's even debatable. Be fr man lol
Kenny Payne was someone who was viewed as one of the TOP assistants in college basketball.. we literally gave him the bag so he can leave Kentucky.He was one of the top assistant coaches in college basketball with Kentucky and one of the highest-paid assistants in the NBA. He was reportedly making over $1.5 million annually with the Knicks.
You not being truthful if you saying these guys weren't viewed as top coaches when we got them. It really is apples to oranges when you compare them to someone like Prigoni who doesn't even want to join Mike Brown.
The media actually stopped clowning us for a bit after Thibs made us relevant again. Barely any "lol knicks" since Thibs came on board. But it's no secret that our coaching search has been an absolute mess. That's not the media just looking for clicks, it's just reality. And it's really Dolan's fault. He got Thibs fired and it put Leon and FO in a bad spot. They had no plans on firing Thibs until Dolan stepped in so now they went scrambling for a head coach and the only coach we can get is an outdated coach in Mike Brown. Now our problem is we can't even get top assistants to join him. I mean it's bad to the point where we're keeping a bunch of Thibs leftovers because he's struggling to get people to join him. When Thibs came on board in 2020 he completely changed the whole coaching staff with ease. Why? Because Thibs had no problem recruiting other coaches to join him.
Absolutely lol. Spent the whole season laying out the laundry list of obvious mistakes he’s made. I know it’s cliche, but the dude really was his own worst enemy. I even said before the start of last season that he’d have to make major adjustments in his style to fit this new team’s needs… even remember you saying the same. He didn’t tho. So getting another coach who’s not stubborn or set in their ways is a huge upgrade. That alone is insanely valuable.
Regarding the other coaches… seems like there’s a miscommunication. I’m saying that those coaches aren’t the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. They were good for what they were, but they were easier to get than what we’re looking to add now.
It’s just not so binary like you’re making it seem. It’s not we got good coaches to join under Thibs so Thibs=great coach vs having difficulty filling the associate position under Brown so Brown=bad coach. That’s very superficial thinking. If you really want answers, gotta dig deeper.
There’s so many factors to consider here if you’re truly being objective and not agenda posting. I mentioned the rep about ownership, management, fanbase, media, attention, pressure, etc. There’s also the personal issues like family/location/loyalty… again like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr we missed out before on. That’s a thing. Look at Dame and Cp3.. instead of chasing their first ring, these guys are running home to be with family.
Then there’s timing. This year it’s slim pickings, clearly. So many coaches under contract, not much to choose from, even for the associate position. But it was time for Thibs to go regardless, just like I and many others here have been saying, which the FO ultimately agreed with. So just like last year with the lack of options for the bench, we’re dealing with it for the coaching staff.
We’re still gunna be fine tho. It’s not a reason to catastrophize and complain. Let them do their thing. But scapegoating Brown over it? That’s really reaching. Just give the dude a chance… you’re a Knick fan, not a Thibs fan. Let go of the Brown, KAT, n Mikal hate bro lol, it’s actually really cathartic, trust me.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Im saying you dislike Thibs so much to the point where you think any coach we get is an instant upgrade, that's why you love this offseason
You're bugging about Mark Bryant. He's very well known. I actually knew who he was when the Knicks hired him.
Mike Woodson is def way better than someone like Prigioni in terms of coaching. Im not sure how that's even debatable. Be fr man lol
Kenny Payne was someone who was viewed as one of the TOP assistants in college basketball.. we literally gave him the bag so he can leave Kentucky.
You not being truthful if you saying these guys weren't viewed as top coaches when we got them. It really is apples to oranges when you compare them to someone like Prigoni who doesn't even want to join Mike Brown.
The media actually stopped clowning us for a bit after Thibs made us relevant again. Barely any "lol knicks" since Thibs came on board. But it's no secret that our coaching search has been an absolute mess. That's not the media just looking for clicks, it's just reality. And it's really Dolan's fault. He got Thibs fired and it put Leon and FO in a bad spot. They had no plans on firing Thibs until Dolan stepped in so now they went scrambling for a head coach and the only coach we can get is an outdated coach in Mike Brown. Now our problem is we can't even get top assistants to join him. I mean it's bad to the point where we're keeping a bunch of Thibs leftovers because he's struggling to get people to join him. When Thibs came on board in 2020 he completely changed the whole coaching staff with ease. Why? Because Thibs had no problem recruiting other coaches to join him.
Absolutely lol. Spent the whole season laying out the laundry list of obvious mistakes he’s made. I know it’s cliche, but the dude really was his own worst enemy. I even said before the start of last season that he’d have to make major adjustments in his style to fit this new team’s needs… even remember you saying the same. He didn’t tho. So getting another coach who’s not stubborn or set in their ways is a huge upgrade. That alone is insanely valuable.
Regarding the other coaches… seems like there’s a miscommunication. I’m saying that those coaches aren’t the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. They were good for what they were, but they were easier to get than what we’re looking to add now.
It’s just not so binary like you’re making it seem. It’s not we got good coaches to join under Thibs so Thibs=great coach vs having difficulty filling the associate position under Brown so Brown=bad coach. That’s very superficial thinking. If you really want answers, gotta dig deeper.
There’s so many factors to consider here if you’re truly being objective and not agenda posting. I mentioned the rep about ownership, management, fanbase, media, attention, pressure, etc. There’s also the personal issues like family/location/loyalty… again like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr we missed out before on. That’s a thing. Look at Dame and Cp3.. instead of chasing their first ring, these guys are running home to be with family.
Then there’s timing. This year it’s slim pickings, clearly. So many coaches under contract, not much to choose from, even for the associate position. But it was time for Thibs to go regardless, just like I and many others here have been saying, which the FO ultimately agreed with. So just like last year with the lack of options for the bench, we’re dealing with it for the coaching staff.
We’re still gunna be fine tho. It’s not a reason to catastrophize and complain. Let them do their thing. But scapegoating Brown over it? That’s really reaching. Just give the dude a chance… you’re a Knick fan, not a Thibs fan. Let go of the Brown, KAT, n Mikal hate bro lol, it’s actually really cathartic, trust me.
I disagree heavily on your sentiments about Thibs. I don't see any random coach being an upgrade over him. I think Thibs did as well as a job any head coach could do with a flawed roster. He got us to the ECF in the first time in 20 years. I mean we beat Boston which everyone thought was impossible. That alone should've kept him secured. Shams, Fred Katz, James Edwards all said that Thibs job was safe until Dolan stepped in. So Leon clearly wasn't alligned with it which is why we've been scrambling to find coaches because Dolan put him in a really bad spot.
I don't hate Mikal. But the dude plays soft and his 3 point shot is broken. It's not Thibs fault that he is passing up layups for middies and keeps changing his form on 3s. I actually do appreciate him keeping the mid range alive cause I love players who utilize it. But he needs a lot work outside of middies. And his defense was really inconsistent at times too.
KAT.. not much to say about him. Players and the coaching staff were extremely frustrated with his defense. That's really on him too. But it sounds like the Knicks are going to move him to the 4 permanently so it might work out with him.
Im giving Mike Brown a chance, but the bar is extremely high for him. I mean he literally has to get to the finals...I'm extremely skeptical that he's the guy for the job because he hasn't had any type of success in the post season without Lebron. it's really finals or bust for him. Theres a chance everything works out, but there's a reason why alot of us are skeptical about him, and our inability to secure top assistants for him is worrisome as well.
spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:
Absolutely lol. Spent the whole season laying out the laundry list of obvious mistakes he’s made. I know it’s cliche, but the dude really was his own worst enemy. I even said before the start of last season that he’d have to make major adjustments in his style to fit this new team’s needs… even remember you saying the same. He didn’t tho. So getting another coach who’s not stubborn or set in their ways is a huge upgrade. That alone is insanely valuable.
Regarding the other coaches… seems like there’s a miscommunication. I’m saying that those coaches aren’t the caliber of coach we’re looking for right now. They were good for what they were, but they were easier to get than what we’re looking to add now.
It’s just not so binary like you’re making it seem. It’s not we got good coaches to join under Thibs so Thibs=great coach vs having difficulty filling the associate position under Brown so Brown=bad coach. That’s very superficial thinking. If you really want answers, gotta dig deeper.
There’s so many factors to consider here if you’re truly being objective and not agenda posting. I mentioned the rep about ownership, management, fanbase, media, attention, pressure, etc. There’s also the personal issues like family/location/loyalty… again like the Indy coach, and guys like Kerr we missed out before on. That’s a thing. Look at Dame and Cp3.. instead of chasing their first ring, these guys are running home to be with family.
Then there’s timing. This year it’s slim pickings, clearly. So many coaches under contract, not much to choose from, even for the associate position. But it was time for Thibs to go regardless, just like I and many others here have been saying, which the FO ultimately agreed with. So just like last year with the lack of options for the bench, we’re dealing with it for the coaching staff.
We’re still gunna be fine tho. It’s not a reason to catastrophize and complain. Let them do their thing. But scapegoating Brown over it? That’s really reaching. Just give the dude a chance… you’re a Knick fan, not a Thibs fan. Let go of the Brown, KAT, n Mikal hate bro lol, it’s actually really cathartic, trust me.
I disagree heavily on your sentiments about Thibs. I don't see any random coach being an upgrade over him. I think Thibs did as well as a job any head coach could do with a flawed roster. He got us to the ECF in the first time in 20 years. I mean we beat Boston which everyone thought was impossible. That alone should've kept him secured. Shams, Fred Katz, James Edwards all said that Thibs job was safe until Dolan stepped in. So Leon clearly wasn't alligned with it which is why we've been scrambling to find coaches because Dolan put him in a really bad spot.
I don't hate Mikal. But the dude plays soft and his 3 point shot is broken. It's not Thibs fault that he is passing up layups for middies and keeps changing his form on 3s. I actually do appreciate him keeping the mid range alive cause I love players who utilize it. But he needs a lot work outside of middies. And his defense was really inconsistent at times too.
KAT.. not much to say about him. Players and the coaching staff were extremely frustrated with his defense. That's really on him too. But it sounds like the Knicks are going to move him to the 4 permanently so it might work out with him.
Im giving Mike Brown a chance, but the bar is extremely high for him. I mean he literally has to get to the finals...I'm extremely skeptical that he's the guy for the job because he hasn't had any type of success in the post season without Lebron. it's really finals or bust for him. Theres a chance everything works out, but there's a reason why alot of us are skeptical about him, and our inability to secure top assistants for him is worrisome as well.
Yea I’m not gunna pretend to know what really happened behind the scenes. There’s so much out there with his falling out with Leon over the season, Rick turning on him, Wes n Brock not liking him, Dolan being a minutes policeman, reports about the FO saying he’d have to have won a title to have kept his job, the players being upset with him, then the report about Leon having 100% control and threatening to walk if forced to do something he didn’t want including firing Thibs, etc. I think ignoring all that and blaming it all on Dolan is too conspiratorial and agenda driven.
Let’s be honest, Boston wasn’t at full strength. KP wasn’t really in it and Jaylen was also playing hurt. We barely beat Detroit, and the Indy series was a catastrophe of biblical proportions. That’s on Thibs.
The guy basically admitted he screwed up all season by changing things in the playoffs, but it was too little too late. Going switch heavy, deeper into the bench, changing lineups, etc. Everything we complained about all year he finally gave us, but then reverted back to dumb decisions at times which ultimately cost us everything. FO probably didn’t think he could stick to not being stubborn over another whole season.
I like to think in terms of root causes for things… KAT’s defense 1 on 1 is solid. Thibs put him in drop tho. It’s no wonder why people were frustrated with his defense… he was set up to fail.
Only thing I blame Mikal for is his shot change. It got better as the season went on tho. Would I like him to attack the basket more? Sure, but at that point you’re asking him to be a superstar. He’s just not. That’s why he’s 3rd/4th option. Everything else is fine. The defensive numbers/stats/rankings that have come out have been very impressive. Considering Thibs drove him into the dirt (ran him thru the most screens, played the most minutes, never missed a game) and played him out of position, what more can we ask for? The guy still saved our ass in two playoff games vs Boston… which was the very reason we traded for him.
3toheadmelo wrote:spree8 wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:I disagree heavily on your sentiments about Thibs. I don't see any random coach being an upgrade over him. I think Thibs did as well as a job any head coach could do with a flawed roster. He got us to the ECF in the first time in 20 years. I mean we beat Boston which everyone thought was impossible. That alone should've kept him secured. Shams, Fred Katz, James Edwards all said that Thibs job was safe until Dolan stepped in. So Leon clearly wasn't alligned with it which is why we've been scrambling to find coaches because Dolan put him in a really bad spot.
I don't hate Mikal. But the dude plays soft and his 3 point shot is broken. It's not Thibs fault that he is passing up layups for middies and keeps changing his form on 3s. I actually do appreciate him keeping the mid range alive cause I love players who utilize it. But he needs a lot work outside of middies. And his defense was really inconsistent at times too.
KAT.. not much to say about him. Players and the coaching staff were extremely frustrated with his defense. That's really on him too. But it sounds like the Knicks are going to move him to the 4 permanently so it might work out with him.
Im giving Mike Brown a chance, but the bar is extremely high for him. I mean he literally has to get to the finals...I'm extremely skeptical that he's the guy for the job because he hasn't had any type of success in the post season without Lebron. it's really finals or bust for him. Theres a chance everything works out, but there's a reason why alot of us are skeptical about him, and our inability to secure top assistants for him is worrisome as well.
Yea I’m not gunna pretend to know what really happened behind the scenes. There’s so much out there with his falling out with Leon over the season, Rick turning on him, Wes n Brock not liking him, Dolan being a minutes policeman, reports about the FO saying he’d have to have won a title to have kept his job, the players being upset with him, then the report about Leon having 100% control and threatening to walk if forced to do something he didn’t want including firing Thibs, etc. I think ignoring all that and blaming it all on Dolan is too conspiratorial and agenda driven.
Let’s be honest, Boston wasn’t at full strength. KP wasn’t really in it and Jaylen was also playing hurt. We barely beat Detroit, and the Indy series was a catastrophe of biblical proportions. That’s on Thibs.
The guy basically admitted he screwed up all season by changing things in the playoffs, but it was too little too late. Going switch heavy, deeper into the bench, changing lineups, etc. Everything we complained about all year he finally gave us, but then reverted back to dumb decisions at times which ultimately cost us everything. FO probably didn’t think he could stick to not being stubborn over another whole season.
I like to think in terms of root causes for things… KAT’s defense 1 on 1 is solid. Thibs put him in drop tho. It’s no wonder why people were frustrated with his defense… he was set up to fail.
Only thing I blame Mikal for is his shot change. It got better as the season went on tho. Would I like him to attack the basket more? Sure, but at that point you’re asking him to be a superstar. He’s just not. That’s why he’s 3rd/4th option. Everything else is fine. The defensive numbers/stats/rankings that have come out have been very impressive. Considering Thibs drove him into the dirt (ran him thru the most screens, played the most minutes, never missed a game) and played him out of position, what more can we ask for? The guy still saved our ass in two playoff games vs Boston… which was the very reason we traded for him.
It's not conspiracy/agenda driven tho. Fred Katz is one of the best writers out there and he doesn't say stuff for clicks. He's very plugged in with the Knicks as well.
Boston basically won the chip last year without KP so he doesn't really count. Sure Brown was hurt, but he was still putting up 20+ PPG. Boston had 2 big leads in the first 2 games so they absolutely still could've beaten us. I don't think you're giving the team/Thibs enough credit for beating Boston.
Indiana was simply the better team as much as we hate to admit it. They probably win the chip if Hali didn't tear his achilles.
KAT's defense is awful in drop and at switching. There's not much you can really do to fix it. The most you can do is move him at the 4 which is what Minny did and what we're going to do going forward.
Mikal was pretty terrible against Indiana. Im not asking him to be a superstar. Im asking him to not pass up an open drive for a contested middy fadeaway. That's basketball 101 lol
At the end of the day we'll see how things go this year. Our window is pretty wide open this season to go to the finals with Boston and indiana's injuries. If Mike Brown can't get to the finals then hiring him was a massive mistake.
3toheadmelo wrote:rajajackal wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:Nobody wants to work for Mike brown
nah he's well liked. they don't want to be called associate head coach/lead assistant while the star player's daddy is on the bench undermining that role
Im not buying that. If that was the case then Johnnie Bryant would've left as soon as Rick came on board. It seems likely that the league thinks of Mike Brown as an assistant and not a head coach.