Bears 12.0

[Almost Retired]

You guys are seriously underrating Bo Nix if you think Bagent is 90% of him. He's not a game manager... he's a legit franchise QB.

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


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Bagent went 2-2 when he had the opportunity. On a **** team. With an idiot coach. He now has more experience and an actual professional coaching staff. I would bet you dimes to donuts that with BJ and Declan Bagent could guide this team to at least an 8-9 record. And I would start Bagent before Justin Fields or Anthony Richardson, whoever starts for Cleveland, and probably Tyler Shough. And an outside chance I'd start him over Aaron Rodgers who I think is washed up at this point.

[dougthonus]

You guys are seriously underrating Bo Nix if you think Bagent is 90% of him. He's not a game manager... he's a legit franchise QB.

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't think we know what Bagent can or can't do. He started 4 games and went 2-2 on a pretty bad team. More than likely we'll see him start a game or two this year as it's not unlikely Caleb will miss at least a game with an injury. I am anxious to see how he does in Ben Johnson's offense, and with the talent we have on offense. He was listed ahead of Case Keenum on the depth chart- I don't know if that means much, but reports are that he's looked pretty sharp so far in camp. We'll likely see a good deal of him in preseason. He could be a total dud, or he could be a pretty good back up. Maybe Steve Fuller to Caleb's Jim McMahon.

People are really hung up on the 2-2 record as if the QB controls all the wins and losses.

He had 3 TDs vs 6 INTs and averaged under 5 yards per attempt, which would be lower than any starting QB. Not sure how he's developed over the last year while practicing but not playing games, maybe he's made huge strides, but I don't think there's a lot of reason to think Bagent is going to be a starter one day.

[Dresden]

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't think we know what Bagent can or can't do. He started 4 games and went 2-2 on a pretty bad team. More than likely we'll see him start a game or two this year as it's not unlikely Caleb will miss at least a game with an injury. I am anxious to see how he does in Ben Johnson's offense, and with the talent we have on offense. He was listed ahead of Case Keenum on the depth chart- I don't know if that means much, but reports are that he's looked pretty sharp so far in camp. We'll likely see a good deal of him in preseason. He could be a total dud, or he could be a pretty good back up. Maybe Steve Fuller to Caleb's Jim McMahon.

People are really hung up on the 2-2 record as if the QB controls all the wins and losses.

He had 3 TDs vs 6 INTs and averaged under 5 yards per attempt, which would be lower than any starting QB. Not sure how he's developed over the last year while practicing but not playing games, maybe he's made huge strides, but I don't think there's a lot of reason to think Bagent is going to be a starter one day.

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

[Bulls69]

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I don't think we know what Bagent can or can't do. He started 4 games and went 2-2 on a pretty bad team. More than likely we'll see him start a game or two this year as it's not unlikely Caleb will miss at least a game with an injury. I am anxious to see how he does in Ben Johnson's offense, and with the talent we have on offense. He was listed ahead of Case Keenum on the depth chart- I don't know if that means much, but reports are that he's looked pretty sharp so far in camp. We'll likely see a good deal of him in preseason. He could be a total dud, or he could be a pretty good back up. Maybe Steve Fuller to Caleb's Jim McMahon.

People are really hung up on the 2-2 record as if the QB controls all the wins and losses.

He had 3 TDs vs 6 INTs and averaged under 5 yards per attempt, which would be lower than any starting QB. Not sure how he's developed over the last year while practicing but not playing games, maybe he's made huge strides, but I don't think there's a lot of reason to think Bagent is going to be a starter one day.

Bingo like I said earlier our base has a love fest with Tyson.


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[Bulls69]

You guys are seriously underrating Bo Nix if you think Bagent is 90% of him. He's not a game manager... he's a legit franchise QB.

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Bagent went 2-2 when he had the opportunity. On a **** team. With an idiot coach. He now has more experience and an actual professional coaching staff. I would bet you dimes to donuts that with BJ and Declan Bagent could guide this team to at least an 8-9 record. And I would start Bagent before Justin Fields or Anthony Richardson, whoever starts for Cleveland, and probably Tyler Shough. And an outside chance I'd start him over Aaron Rodgers who I think is washed up at this point.

He couldn't beat out JF when they were on the same team. I would also take Richardson over Tyson, who is just not a starter in the NFL. I don't think he's better than Spencer Rattler.


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[panthermark]

I don't think we know what Bagent can or can't do. He started 4 games and went 2-2 on a pretty bad team. More than likely we'll see him start a game or two this year as it's not unlikely Caleb will miss at least a game with an injury. I am anxious to see how he does in Ben Johnson's offense, and with the talent we have on offense. He was listed ahead of Case Keenum on the depth chart- I don't know if that means much, but reports are that he's looked pretty sharp so far in camp. We'll likely see a good deal of him in preseason. He could be a total dud, or he could be a pretty good back up. Maybe Steve Fuller to Caleb's Jim McMahon.

People are really hung up on the 2-2 record as if the QB controls all the wins and losses.

He had 3 TDs vs 6 INTs and averaged under 5 yards per attempt, which would be lower than any starting QB. Not sure how he's developed over the last year while practicing but not playing games, maybe he's made huge strides, but I don't think there's a lot of reason to think Bagent is going to be a starter one day.

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

I like Agent Bagent for what he is....which is a more athletic Shane "noodle arm" Mathews. He really needs a much stronger arm. That is what holds him back IMO.

As for the things you described he did better than Fields.....well.....he probably does them better than CW too.

[CBS7]

You guys are seriously underrating Bo Nix if you think Bagent is 90% of him. He's not a game manager... he's a legit franchise QB.

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Bagent went 2-2 when he had the opportunity. On a **** team. With an idiot coach. He now has more experience and an actual professional coaching staff. I would bet you dimes to donuts that with BJ and Declan Bagent could guide this team to at least an 8-9 record. And I would start Bagent before Justin Fields or Anthony Richardson, whoever starts for Cleveland, and probably Tyler Shough. And an outside chance I'd start him over Aaron Rodgers who I think is washed up at this point.

I think you just proved his point lol

[dougthonus]

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

His int% would have been the 2nd worst in the NFL if you pro-rated it. Sacks are a negative play, but no where near as negative as an interception. I mean just getting the ball out quickly, but being near bottom of the league in yards per attempt and interception percentage seem like pretty huge mitigating factors. There isn't really any signs of success here, just a sign of lack of failure in one particular area.

Again, maybe he's going to do some better things in time, but I don't see a lot of reason to expect much here.

[molepharmer]

Pretty funny exchange with Tyson on Waddle/Silvy. Waddle asked TB what it's like when he walks into the huddle with DJ, Cole, Luther, Rome, Loveland... and Bagent responds those guys aren't in his huddle. Says he has a couple of guys in his huddle who don't know the plays particularly well and that when he calls the play he focusses on those guys making sure to enunciate the play clearly and slowly.

[MAQ]

Pretty funny exchange with Tyson on Waddle/Silvy. Waddle asked TB what it's like when he walks into the huddle with DJ, Cole, Luther, Rome, Loveland... and Bagent responds those guys aren't in his huddle. Says he has a couple of guys in his huddle who don't know the plays particularly well and that when he calls the play he focusses on those guys making sure to enunciate the play clearly and slowly.

Loved the story about the game in NO.

Scrambles on a play...gets tackled funny...hurting a bit. OC radios in some ridiculous play...ridiculous in the amount of words needed to call it out.

Silvy asks "and what was the result of the play"
Tyson: "Well...i scurried down the sideline for 20 more yards"

Lmfao

[sco]

Was watching this convo earlier... https://www.on3.com/pro/news/espn-jeremy-fowler-claims-chicago-bears-are-treating-caleb-williams-like-a-rookie-right-now-nfl/

I'm happy about this. Caleb needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. Sounded like Ben was looking at he foot mechanics on drops and other micro stuff. May not be great for Caleb's confidence, but the kid IMO got the yips last season, so there may not have been much there to start with. Either BJ is a QB whisperer or it doesn't matter because they will either succeed or fail together.

[fleet]

Super interesting practice matchup, fwiw.

Read on Twitter

[Dresden]

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

His int% would have been the 2nd worst in the NFL if you pro-rated it. Sacks are a negative play, but no where near as negative as an interception. I mean just getting the ball out quickly, but being near bottom of the league in yards per attempt and interception percentage seem like pretty huge mitigating factors. There isn't really any signs of success here, just a sign of lack of failure in one particular area.

Again, maybe he's going to do some better things in time, but I don't see a lot of reason to expect much here.

It's a 4 game sample size. I don't think anyone would look at any other rookie after 4 games and say "his int% is bad so he'll never be a starting QB". My point is that we don't really know one way or the other based on what we've seen so far. The coaches I'm sure have a good idea- they see him everyday in practice. If the depth chart means anything, he's at least beat out Kase Keenum.

I'm just interested to see what he can do this year if he's given a chance with the first team offense. He could bomb, he could be pretty good. I think we just can't say based on 4 games. But from Ben Johnson's recent comments, he's at least doing some things right.

[Dresden]

People are really hung up on the 2-2 record as if the QB controls all the wins and losses.

He had 3 TDs vs 6 INTs and averaged under 5 yards per attempt, which would be lower than any starting QB. Not sure how he's developed over the last year while practicing but not playing games, maybe he's made huge strides, but I don't think there's a lot of reason to think Bagent is going to be a starter one day.

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

I like Agent Bagent for what he is....which is a more athletic Shane "noodle arm" Mathews. He really needs a much stronger arm. That is what holds him back IMO.

As for the things you described he did better than Fields.....well.....he probably does them better than CW too.

Someone last year posted velocity numbers of various QB's that threw at the combine that year, and Bagent's velocity was right up there with a lot of them- I think he was middle of the pack. So I think concerns about his arm strength are overblown. Also, Brock Purdy has one of the weakest arms I've ever seen in the NFL- a lot of his passes look like lollipops- but he gets the job done. While it's nice to have a QB who can zip the ball, it's not the most important thing.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

His int% would have been the 2nd worst in the NFL if you pro-rated it. Sacks are a negative play, but no where near as negative as an interception. I mean just getting the ball out quickly, but being near bottom of the league in yards per attempt and interception percentage seem like pretty huge mitigating factors. There isn't really any signs of success here, just a sign of lack of failure in one particular area.

Again, maybe he's going to do some better things in time, but I don't see a lot of reason to expect much here.

It's a 4 game sample size. I don't think anyone would look at any other rookie after 4 games and say "his int% is bad so he'll never be a starting QB". My point is that we don't really know one way or the other based on what we've seen so far. The coaches I'm sure have a good idea- they see him everyday in practice. If the depth chart means anything, he's at least beat out Kase Keenum.

I'm just interested to see what he can do this year if he's given a chance with the first team offense. He could bomb, he could be pretty good. I think we just can't say based on 4 games. But from Ben Johnson's recent comments, he's at least doing some things right.

He could even be a boat.

Sorry, old Simpsons reference.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Some nice camp fluff to brighten your day…

https://youtube.com/shorts/701FzdNEO-Y?si=uUU4FY7Q2QWWcSyY

[panthermark]

The biggest thing he did was not take sacks like Fields was doing, and he got the ball out on time. QB's aren't solely responsible for wins and losses but they're more responsible than any other single player. As for the short passes- the coaches dialed up those plays, not him. The Bears line was terrible at pass protection so they didn't want him holding the ball for very long.

I like Agent Bagent for what he is....which is a more athletic Shane "noodle arm" Mathews. He really needs a much stronger arm. That is what holds him back IMO.

As for the things you described he did better than Fields.....well.....he probably does them better than CW too.

Someone last year posted velocity numbers of various QB's that threw at the combine that year, and Bagent's velocity was right up there with a lot of them- I think he was middle of the pack. So I think concerns about his arm strength are overblown. Also, Brock Purdy has one of the weakest arms I've ever seen in the NFL- a lot of his passes look like lollipops- but he gets the job done. While it's nice to have a QB who can zip the ball, it's not the most important thing.

No, the concern is correct. Velocity without context is irrelevant.
With a full wind up available, no obstacles and not concerned about pin point accuracy since they are throwing at a big ass pad 10 yards in front of them, he can have decent velocity.

When being hurried, and/or throwing off of one foot and/or having to change the height/angle of delivery and/or not getting full wind up and/or throwing to throw a deep ball accurately or zip a ball in a tight window down field, the velocity is no longer there.

I like Agent Bagent a ton, but he does not have a great arm. We have watched him get pulled for a hail mary, watched tight windows close on him and end up as picks, and have watched him throw ducks on deep balls. I hope there is something that can be done with his arm, but it probably is what it is at this point in his career.

Just pulled this link so people can see how it is done.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1b515s2/velocity_measurement_throws_from_today/

[dice]

Our base has an unwarranted love fest with Bagent the kid is a good backup not every a down NFL stater. I can't name one current NFL starter that I would say Tyson is better than not one.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Bagent went 2-2 when he had the opportunity. On a **** team. With an idiot coach. He now has more experience and an actual professional coaching staff. I would bet you dimes to donuts that with BJ and Declan Bagent could guide this team to at least an 8-9 record. And I would start Bagent before Justin Fields or Anthony Richardson, whoever starts for Cleveland, and probably Tyler Shough. And an outside chance I'd start him over Aaron Rodgers who I think is washed up at this point.

He couldn't beat out JF when they were on the same team.

draft slot and talent level bias perhaps? i wouldn't have started bagent even if he was marginally outperforming fields in practice. 'cause his ceiling was obviously significantly lower

[Dresden]

I like Agent Bagent for what he is....which is a more athletic Shane "noodle arm" Mathews. He really needs a much stronger arm. That is what holds him back IMO.

As for the things you described he did better than Fields.....well.....he probably does them better than CW too.

Someone last year posted velocity numbers of various QB's that threw at the combine that year, and Bagent's velocity was right up there with a lot of them- I think he was middle of the pack. So I think concerns about his arm strength are overblown. Also, Brock Purdy has one of the weakest arms I've ever seen in the NFL- a lot of his passes look like lollipops- but he gets the job done. While it's nice to have a QB who can zip the ball, it's not the most important thing.

No, the concern is correct. Velocity without context is irrelevant.
With a full wind up available, no obstacles and not concerned about pin point accuracy since they are throwing at a big ass pad 10 yards in front of them, he can have decent velocity.

When being hurried, and/or throwing off of one foot and/or having to change the height/angle of delivery and/or not getting full wind up and/or throwing to throw a deep ball accurately or zip a ball in a tight window down field, the velocity is no longer there.

I like Agent Bagent a ton, but he does not have a great arm. We have watched him get pulled for a hail mary, watched tight windows close on him and end up as picks, and have watched him throw ducks on deep balls. I hope there is something that can be done with his arm, but it probably is what it is at this point in his career.

Just pulled this link so people can see how it is done.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1b515s2/velocity_measurement_throws_from_today/

I'm not convinced his arm strength is a problem. I found these old highlights of him from his so. year in college, and he makes plenty of long throws, throws on the run, throws into tight windows:

Watch on YouTube

.

I'm not saying he's got a great arm, but I don't think that's the reason why he won't become a good NFL QB.

I remember in one of the games he played either last year or the year before, he made a throw on 3rd and long into a tight window for a first down, and the color analyst, a former NFL QB I believe, said something like "if you can make those kinds of throws, you can play QB in the NFL".

Not saying he'll ever be a starter in the NFL. Just saying I hope to see more of him to see what he can do at some point. And I'm sure we'll see that in preseason, although playing with the second team, and against second team defenses.

[dougthonus]

It's a 4 game sample size. I don't think anyone would look at any other rookie after 4 games and say "his int% is bad so he'll never be a starting QB". My point is that we don't really know one way or the other based on what we've seen so far. The coaches I'm sure have a good idea- they see him everyday in practice. If the depth chart means anything, he's at least beat out Kase Keenum.

I'm just interested to see what he can do this year if he's given a chance with the first team offense. He could bomb, he could be pretty good. I think we just can't say based on 4 games. But from Ben Johnson's recent comments, he's at least doing some things right.

Sure, you can't say for sure based on 4 games.

What you can say is:
1: Coming out of the draft he wasn't viewed as an NFL starting caliber prospect
2: He's done nothing since then that should change that opinion

So while you cannot say for sure what will happen, the odds of him becoming a very good QB vs fringe starting caliber QB vs being a backup vs being out of league caliber are not all just toss ups where you have no idea. The category we care about, very good QB, would seem highly, highly unlikely based on his pedigree coming in, and lack of evidence to change that opinion.