Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Twinkie defense]

But that's the contradiction in their stance. If he's not good enough for the team to guarantee a 2nd year, you're telling the league you think his value isn't very high.

For any team trading for a player, wouldn't you prefer to have more team options than less team options? Since when do teams not like team options?

[Twinkie defense]

^ If teams want Kuminga because he is an expiring contract what's the point. There are plenty of expiring contracts in the league if that's what your looking for.

Do those expiring contracts come with post-Steph Curry first round picks?

[jozef]

What do you think (if it is possible) about trade of
Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga for Nick Claxton and Michael Porter Jr.?

[AirP.]

^ If teams want Kuminga because he is an expiring contract what's the point. There are plenty of expiring contracts in the league if that's what your looking for.

While true, not having that possible chunky contract that "could" be expiring gets you into more trade conversations than if you didn't have it. So once you're in those conversations now you have a chance to decide if the assets you want to give up make sense. It's all about options and quite possibly that extra option could end up bringing in just the right player to give Curry his 5th ring.

[AirP.]

What do you think (if it is possible) about trade of
Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga for Nick Claxton and Michael Porter Jr.?

Although that's a better team with Curry on the court, you're back to no offense with Curry off the court. For a long playoff run you're going to need another engine to the offense.

[AirP.]

^ If teams want Kuminga because he is an expiring contract what's the point. There are plenty of expiring contracts in the league if that's what your looking for.

Do those expiring contracts come with post-Steph Curry first round picks?

Here's a very interesting question to ponder, when is the post-Curry era? It's quite possible there's very little drop off for Curry and even Butler in the next 2 seasons (although health risks should continue to go up), both are skilled, high BBIQ players, don't rely on their athletic ability like most and they both also seem to be very professional with their bodies with great time management to balance their personal and professional lives. Whereas that 2028 pick looks like it could be a lottery pick with Curry, Butler and Draymond's contracts ending in 2027, they may not be done as high-level players. If GS knows Curry will take an extension and will still be a high-level player, it's possible to sell high on the 2028 pick before the rest of the league knows Curry stays around. This also might be a reason why GS isn't keeping Kuminga around for the post-Curry era because it may not start in 2027.

[EvanZ]

What do you think (if it is possible) about trade of
Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga for Nick Claxton and Michael Porter Jr.?

I am literally Nic Claxton's biggest fan and there's no way I do that trade. Why on earth would we give up Jimmy Butler for that pair? 4 quarters do not make a buck in the NBA.

[vvoland]

What do you think (if it is possible) about trade of
Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga for Nick Claxton and Michael Porter Jr.?

I am literally Nic Claxton's biggest fan and there's no way I do that trade. Why on earth would we give up Jimmy Butler for that pair? 4 quarters do not make a buck in the NBA.

2 dimes and a nickel, maybe?

MPJ has to be one of the more negative contracts in the nba, right? With his injury hisory and how much is left on the deal, that Denver pick was seen as a cheap price just to get off that contract, much less get a comparable player back.

[vvoland]

^ If teams want Kuminga because he is an expiring contract what's the point. There are plenty of expiring contracts in the league if that's what your looking for.

Do those expiring contracts come with post-Steph Curry first round picks?

Here's a very interesting question to ponder, when is the post-Curry era? It's quite possible there's very little drop off for Curry and even Butler in the next 2 seasons (although health risks should continue to go up), both are skilled, high BBIQ players, don't rely on their athletic ability like most and they both also seem to be very professional with their bodies with great time management to balance their personal and professional lives. Whereas that 2028 pick looks like it could be a lottery pick with Curry, Butler and Draymond's contracts ending in 2027, they may not be done as high-level players. If GS knows Curry will take an extension and will still be a high-level player, it's possible to sell high on the 2028 pick before the rest of the league knows Curry stays around. This also might be a reason why GS isn't keeping Kuminga around for the post-Curry era because it may not start in 2027.

If only the team had this wisdom 5 years ago, when steph was ~32 and the FO/the league/some of this board, no longer believed in Steph. Many already wanted to 'rebuild'.. soft, or otherwise. If they had real faith in Steph/Dray, those high picks (#2 and #7) would have been moved and the '25-'28 picks would have been traded back when they were valued much like the '30/'32 picks are now. If this FO didn't 'mortgage the future' back then, why would they do so now? Unless, of course, a top 10 player is on the market and GSW is on the short list.

[AirP.]

Do those expiring contracts come with post-Steph Curry first round picks?

Here's a very interesting question to ponder, when is the post-Curry era? It's quite possible there's very little drop off for Curry and even Butler in the next 2 seasons (although health risks should continue to go up), both are skilled, high BBIQ players, don't rely on their athletic ability like most and they both also seem to be very professional with their bodies with great time management to balance their personal and professional lives. Whereas that 2028 pick looks like it could be a lottery pick with Curry, Butler and Draymond's contracts ending in 2027, they may not be done as high-level players. If GS knows Curry will take an extension and will still be a high-level player, it's possible to sell high on the 2028 pick before the rest of the league knows Curry stays around. This also might be a reason why GS isn't keeping Kuminga around for the post-Curry era because it may not start in 2027.

If only the team had this wisdom 5 years ago, when steph was ~32 and the FO/the league/some of this board, no longer believed in Steph. Many already wanted to 'rebuild'.. soft, or otherwise. If they had real faith in Steph/Dray, those high picks (#2 and #7) would have been moved and the '25-'28 picks would have been traded back when they were valued much like the '30/'32 picks are now. If this FO didn't 'mortgage the future' back then, why would they do so now? Unless, of course, a top 10 player is on the market and GSW is on the short list.

You either build teams to win Championships or just making profits. You have a special player in Steph, not a franchise player, but someone who is one of the greatest to ever play, you should never waste that, the Chicago Bulls wasted possibly another 1-2 seasons of Jordan because that owner only cared about profits... same thing today and the reason I'm no longer a Bulls fan (which is where I got on the Butler bandwagon).

On not going in on Curry years ago, just 5-10 years ago there wasn't much of a history of players playing at a high level deep into their 30s so I can understand not expecting since it wasn't a regular thing but we're really seeing just the first era of players who have had access to great medical and technology to keep themselves in tip top shape if they want to and it's highly likely this will continue to be the trend. All that really fades going deeper into the 30s for players is some of their athletic ability which some players really rely on and of course recovery for their bodies (which of course technology and medical breakthroughs have helped), not just from playing in games but from injuries. LeBron isn't what he used to be but with his size, BBIQ, skill and effort level (when it's there) is still an ALL-NBA level player, same with Curry. Butler's role is no longer a #1 in GS with Curry there and I think that's what he's always wanted, but when he's healthy he can dominate a game when he needs to (which is why his numbers go up in the playoffs vs regular season).

I don't really get fans who want to rebuild while still having a good team (I get rebuilding with a bad team) other than just wanting something different even if it's possibly going to be worse, just a few years ago GS had 3 lottery picks and including #2 and a #7 and neither yielded a franchise level player, Minnesota took 2 PGs right before Curry was picked, Jokic (one of the greatest players) was taken during a Taco Bell commercial in the 2nd round, people passed on Giannis because he didn't play against good competition and didn't know he'd grow a bit more.

[vvoland]

Here's a very interesting question to ponder, when is the post-Curry era? It's quite possible there's very little drop off for Curry and even Butler in the next 2 seasons (although health risks should continue to go up), both are skilled, high BBIQ players, don't rely on their athletic ability like most and they both also seem to be very professional with their bodies with great time management to balance their personal and professional lives. Whereas that 2028 pick looks like it could be a lottery pick with Curry, Butler and Draymond's contracts ending in 2027, they may not be done as high-level players. If GS knows Curry will take an extension and will still be a high-level player, it's possible to sell high on the 2028 pick before the rest of the league knows Curry stays around. This also might be a reason why GS isn't keeping Kuminga around for the post-Curry era because it may not start in 2027.

If only the team had this wisdom 5 years ago, when steph was ~32 and the FO/the league/some of this board, no longer believed in Steph. Many already wanted to 'rebuild'.. soft, or otherwise. If they had real faith in Steph/Dray, those high picks (#2 and #7) would have been moved and the '25-'28 picks would have been traded back when they were valued much like the '30/'32 picks are now. If this FO didn't 'mortgage the future' back then, why would they do so now? Unless, of course, a top 10 player is on the market and GSW is on the short list.

You either build teams to win Championships or just making profits. You have a special player in Steph, not a franchise player, but someone who is one of the greatest to ever play, you should never waste that, the Chicago Bulls wasted possibly another 1-2 seasons of Jordan because that owner only cared about profits... same thing today and the reason I'm no longer a Bulls fan (which is where I got on the Butler bandwagon).

On not going in on Curry years ago, just 5-10 years ago there wasn't much of a history of players playing at a high level deep into their 30s so I can understand not expecting since it wasn't a regular thing but we're really seeing just the first era of players who have had access to great medical and technology to keep themselves in tip top shape if they want to and it's highly likely this will continue to be the trend. All that really fades going deeper into the 30s for players is some of their athletic ability which some players really rely on and of course recovery for their bodies (which of course technology and medical breakthroughs have helped), not just from playing in games but from injuries. LeBron isn't what he used to be but with his size, BBIQ, skill and effort level (when it's there) is still an ALL-NBA level player, same with Curry. Butler's role is no longer a #1 in GS with Curry there and I think that's what he's always wanted, but when he's healthy he can dominate a game when he needs to (which is why his numbers go up in the playoffs vs regular season).

I don't really get fans who want to rebuild while still having a good team (I get rebuilding with a bad team) other than just wanting something different even if it's possibly going to be worse, just a few years ago GS had 3 lottery picks and including #2 and a #7 and neither yielded a franchise level player, Minnesota took 2 PGs right before Curry was picked, Jokic (one of the greatest players) was taken during a Taco Bell commercial in the 2nd round, people passed on Giannis because he didn't play against good competition and didn't know he'd grow a bit more.

I think you're right but another HUUUGE part of it was that it took the '22 title for people inside the organization to realize Curry wasn't just great, he was an ALL-TIME great. Like better everyone that's ever played the game except 5-6 players, in the history of basketball. The fact that fans wanted to turn the page and go full-tank, I kinda get. The fact that the FO was fence-sitting was preposterous.

[HiRez]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

[EvanZ]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

[Onus]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

This is what I don't get we'd be giving up essentially 2 1sts for Ellis and the Kings would really say no to that?

[vvoland]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

It feels like a half measure. At that point, I'd rather try to package some combo of picks/podz/jk/moody/buddy and get a big wing that can shoot (trey murphy, deni, etc.). Getting Keon would be nice but seems like a luxury move that still keeps us 'flexible' and not 'mortgaging the future' when, imho, we should be pushing all out chips to the middle of the table.

It's like half the reason I want to keep JK until his trade restrictions expire. Maybe he won't outplay his contract but we can get a better crop of player once we can use the full 20M (or so) as opposed to all of these restrictions with the S&T.

[statsman]

Lacob is looking to take back as much salary as possible in order to facilitate a possible trade during the first half of the season. Retaining Kuminga (not on the QO) gives the Warriors the largest possible salary chuck. Any S&T is going to limit that to the BYC value (plus possibly TJD/Santos).

Trading Kuminga just for Ellis would go counter to those plans, not to mention putting the Kings into the position of needing to jettison salary somewhere other than the Warriors to salary match a Kuminga S&T.

If it weren't for Lacob's desires, getting back a couple of decent rotation players is about as good as it gets, outside of retaining Kuminga.

[EvanZ]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

It feels like a half measure. At that point, I'd rather try to package some combo of picks/podz/jk/moody/buddy and get a big wing that can shoot (trey murphy, deni, etc.). Getting Keon would be nice but seems like a luxury move that still keeps us 'flexible' and not 'mortgaging the future' when, imho, we should be pushing all out chips to the middle of the table.

It's like half the reason I want to keep JK until his trade restrictions expire. Maybe he won't outplay his contract but we can get a better crop of player once we can use the full 20M (or so) as opposed to all of these restrictions with the S&T.

Nobody is giving up those players. Keon is at least somewhat obtainable imo. Trey Murphy is not obtainable for us unless we give up 3 picks lol. Neither is Deni.

Those are just not realistic trades. Giving up a pick for Keon might actually work.

[EvanZ]

Lacob is looking to take back as much salary as possible in order to facilitate a possible trade during the first half of the season. Retaining Kuminga (not on the QO) gives the Warriors the largest possible salary chuck. Any S&T is going to limit that to the BYC value (plus possibly TJD/Santos).

Trading Kuminga just for Ellis would go counter to those plans, not to mention putting the Kings into the position of needing to jettison salary somewhere other than the Warriors to salary match a Kuminga S&T.

If it weren't for Lacob's desires, getting back a couple of decent rotation players is about as good as it gets, outside of retaining Kuminga.

I truly hope this is not the plan, because if they are turning down actually real possibilities to improve the team over some pie in the sky Giannis trade, I'm going to be so pissed.

[vvoland]

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

It feels like a half measure. At that point, I'd rather try to package some combo of picks/podz/jk/moody/buddy and get a big wing that can shoot (trey murphy, deni, etc.). Getting Keon would be nice but seems like a luxury move that still keeps us 'flexible' and not 'mortgaging the future' when, imho, we should be pushing all out chips to the middle of the table.

It's like half the reason I want to keep JK until his trade restrictions expire. Maybe he won't outplay his contract but we can get a better crop of player once we can use the full 20M (or so) as opposed to all of these restrictions with the S&T.

Nobody is giving up those players. Keon is at least somewhat obtainable imo. Trey Murphy is not obtainable for us unless we give up 3 picks lol. Neither is Deni.

Those are just not realistic trades. Giving up a pick for Keon might actually work.

I think podz may be valued like a good FRP. So Podz and 2 picks + salary filler for Trey or Deni? I'd do that deal, even without protecting the picks.

As far as attainable? We'll see. Pels and Blazers can easily find themselves well below their expectations, despite those already being pretty low. I didn't think we had any shot at Butler last year, yet, here we are.

[jg77]

Can someone explain the infatuation with Keon Ellis? I'm not that familiar with his game.