Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[Onus]

Can someone explain the infatuation with Keon Ellis? I'm not that familiar with his game.

He's an elite guard defender and a knock down shooter.

[HiRez]

Can someone explain the infatuation with Keon Ellis? I'm not that familiar with his game.

Dude shot 43% on 3s over his 3-year career and is also a very good defender. Warriors were at their best when Steph was next to prime Klay, who rained 3s on one end while covering for Steph on the defensive end. Not saying Keon is prime Klay, but he could have that effect. He also hits his 3s consistently unlike many of our Warriors "shooters", who can be horrifically inconsistent. His WORST month shooting 3s last year was 39.4% (except October which was only 3 games).

[jozef]

What do you think (if it is possible) about trade of
Jimmy Butler and Jonathan Kuminga for Nick Claxton and Michael Porter Jr.?

I am literally Nic Claxton's biggest fan and there's no way I do that trade. Why on earth would we give up Jimmy Butler for that pair? 4 quarters do not make a buck in the NBA.

2 dimes and a nickel, maybe?

MPJ has to be one of the more negative contracts in the nba, right? With his injury hisory and how much is left on the deal, that Denver pick was seen as a cheap price just to get off that contract, much less get a comparable player back.

Porter is 40% 3pt shooter who would just blossom alongside Curry (his training buddy). At 6-9 he is big SF who rebounds a lot. In last 2 seasons he missed only 6 games! Only one year on contract. 27 years old.
Claxton is ultimate rim protector and finisher. At 20 mil per year on good contract. 26 years old.

[jg77]

Can someone explain the infatuation with Keon Ellis? I'm not that familiar with his game.

Dude shot 43% on 3s over his 3-year career and is also a very good defender. Warriors were at their best when Steph was next to prime Klay, who rained 3s on one end while covering for Steph on the defensive end. Not saying Keon is prime Klay, but he could have that effect. He also hits his 3s consistently unlike many of our Warriors "shooters", who can be horrifically inconsistent. His WORST month shooting 3s last year was 39.4% (except October which was only 3 games).

Would love to add a 3&D guy with some actual size in the starting lineup. That would balance the roster nicely.

[AirP.]

If the Kings think protected picks are so great, Kuminga for Ellis and we send them a protected first, surely they can't pass that up.

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

This is what I don't get we'd be giving up essentially 2 1sts for Ellis and the Kings would really say no to that?

Unless GS could get Ellis to extend before the season is up, K.Ellis will be an UFA next summer. I don't know why K.Ellis would extend before free agency next summer unless his team overpays for him.

The big question, when some teams have letdown seasons and decide to pack it in for the season, what can Kuminga's contract (if he opts in ~20 mil), maybe toss in a couple other contracts, toss in 1 or more 1st round picks get GS before the deadline? It's quite possible GS could bring back someone(s) in the range of say... 22 mil to 34 mil(putting Moody's contract with him), there's a lot of players that could help GS in the playoffs at that price point. The only issues are getting Kuminga to sign the 2 year contract then of course waiting to move him.

[Onus]

Can someone explain the infatuation with Keon Ellis? I'm not that familiar with his game.

Dude shot 43% on 3s over his 3-year career and is also a very good defender. Warriors were at their best when Steph was next to prime Klay, who rained 3s on one end while covering for Steph on the defensive end. Not saying Keon is prime Klay, but he could have that effect. He also hits his 3s consistently unlike many of our Warriors "shooters", who can be horrifically inconsistent. His WORST month shooting 3s last year was 39.4% (except October which was only 3 games).

Would love to add a 3&D guy with some actual size in the starting lineup. That would balance the roster nicely.

Keon doesn't have a lot of size and isn't the most versatile defender. He really is only good against guards as he's really light and can get moved easily. He's also really good off ball as well as on ball defensively.

[Onus]

Love this idea. In fact I would prefer giving up that pick and getting Ellis than anything else that has been proposed lately.

This is what I don't get we'd be giving up essentially 2 1sts for Ellis and the Kings would really say no to that?

Unless GS could get Ellis to extend before the season is up, K.Ellis will be an UFA next summer. I don't know why K.Ellis would extend before free agency next summer unless his team overpays for him.

The big question, when some teams have letdown seasons and decide to pack it in for the season, what can Kuminga's contract (if he opts in ~20 mil), maybe toss in a couple other contracts, toss in 1 or more 1st round picks get GS before the deadline? It's quite possible GS could bring back someone(s) in the range of say... 22 mil to 34 mil(putting Moody's contract with him), there's a lot of players that could help GS in the playoffs at that price point. The only issues are getting Kuminga to sign the 2 year contract then of course waiting to move him.

Someone made a list and it was like Wiggins, Brooks, KCP in that salary range.

[jg77]

Dude shot 43% on 3s over his 3-year career and is also a very good defender. Warriors were at their best when Steph was next to prime Klay, who rained 3s on one end while covering for Steph on the defensive end. Not saying Keon is prime Klay, but he could have that effect. He also hits his 3s consistently unlike many of our Warriors "shooters", who can be horrifically inconsistent. His WORST month shooting 3s last year was 39.4% (except October which was only 3 games).

Would love to add a 3&D guy with some actual size in the starting lineup. That would balance the roster nicely.

Keon doesn't have a lot of size and isn't the most versatile defender. He really is only good against guards as he's really light and can get moved easily. He's also really good off ball as well as on ball defensively.

Just did a quick browse and it seems like Kings fans have no interest in trading him Keon. I wonder if Sac is even entertaining offering him.

[Onus]

Would love to add a 3&D guy with some actual size in the starting lineup. That would balance the roster nicely.

Keon doesn't have a lot of size and isn't the most versatile defender. He really is only good against guards as he's really light and can get moved easily. He's also really good off ball as well as on ball defensively.

Just did a quick browse and it seems like Kings fans have no interest in trading him Keon. I wonder if Sac is even entertaining offering him.

They aren’t which is why we would be giving up a 1st and not getting back a 1st. So they would essentially trading Keon for 2 1sts which I find hard for them to turn down.

[AirP.]

This is what I don't get we'd be giving up essentially 2 1sts for Ellis and the Kings would really say no to that?

Unless GS could get Ellis to extend before the season is up, K.Ellis will be an UFA next summer. I don't know why K.Ellis would extend before free agency next summer unless his team overpays for him.

The big question, when some teams have letdown seasons and decide to pack it in for the season, what can Kuminga's contract (if he opts in ~20 mil), maybe toss in a couple other contracts, toss in 1 or more 1st round picks get GS before the deadline? It's quite possible GS could bring back someone(s) in the range of say... 22 mil to 34 mil(putting Moody's contract with him), there's a lot of players that could help GS in the playoffs at that price point. The only issues are getting Kuminga to sign the 2 year contract then of course waiting to move him.

Someone made a list and it was like Wiggins, Brooks, KCP in that salary range.

Sure, but you can also bring in multiple lower priced players.

To see the salaries of everyone (except the newest signed ones), go to...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

For example, maybe you send Kuminga and a couple of smaller contracts, maybe a draft asset to bring back Avdija and R.Williams from Portland for depth. That's just one example of strengthening the roster for the present. Maybe you don't want to risk it with Williams and get your wing/guard defender in Thybulle or push to get Camara in the trade. There's a lot of options out there if you have at least one sizable contract to move before the deadline.

[HiRez]

Would love to add a 3&D guy with some actual size in the starting lineup. That would balance the roster nicely.

Keon doesn't have a lot of size and isn't the most versatile defender. He really is only good against guards as he's really light and can get moved easily. He's also really good off ball as well as on ball defensively.

Just did a quick browse and it seems like Kings fans have no interest in trading him Keon. I wonder if Sac is even entertaining offering him.

Maybe not but they're not even starting him, something that probably doesn't make Keon super-happy. He would definitely start at the 2 in GS — I would hope but it's Kerr so who knows — and also finish (85% FT shooter, shoots 83% on layups/close, compared to 67% for Podz and 73% for Buddy and 72% for Moses = fewer blown layups), and get all the minutes he could eat (more a motivation for him than the Kings but if he puts a little pressure on them...). Plus Kings get a protected pick as compensation.

[Onus]

Unless GS could get Ellis to extend before the season is up, K.Ellis will be an UFA next summer. I don't know why K.Ellis would extend before free agency next summer unless his team overpays for him.

The big question, when some teams have letdown seasons and decide to pack it in for the season, what can Kuminga's contract (if he opts in ~20 mil), maybe toss in a couple other contracts, toss in 1 or more 1st round picks get GS before the deadline? It's quite possible GS could bring back someone(s) in the range of say... 22 mil to 34 mil(putting Moody's contract with him), there's a lot of players that could help GS in the playoffs at that price point. The only issues are getting Kuminga to sign the 2 year contract then of course waiting to move him.

Someone made a list and it was like Wiggins, Brooks, KCP in that salary range.

Sure, but you can also bring in multiple lower priced players.

To see the salaries of everyone (except the newest signed ones), go to...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

For example, maybe you send Kuminga and a couple of smaller contracts, maybe a draft asset to bring back Avdija and R.Williams from Portland for depth. That's just one example of strengthening the roster for the present. Maybe you don't want to risk it with Williams and get your wing/guard defender in Thybulle or push to get Camara in the trade. There's a lot of options out there if you have at least one sizable contract to move before the deadline.

Deni is going to cost more than Keon. If you talk to any portland fan Deni is the guy they want to build around.

Do we really want another pf? Jimmy and Dray are already pfs. We really don't need another pf who would be our 3rd best pf and play them out of position.

[HiRez]

Unless GS could get Ellis to extend before the season is up, K.Ellis will be an UFA next summer. I don't know why K.Ellis would extend before free agency next summer unless his team overpays for him.

The big question, when some teams have letdown seasons and decide to pack it in for the season, what can Kuminga's contract (if he opts in ~20 mil), maybe toss in a couple other contracts, toss in 1 or more 1st round picks get GS before the deadline? It's quite possible GS could bring back someone(s) in the range of say... 22 mil to 34 mil(putting Moody's contract with him), there's a lot of players that could help GS in the playoffs at that price point. The only issues are getting Kuminga to sign the 2 year contract then of course waiting to move him.

Someone made a list and it was like Wiggins, Brooks, KCP in that salary range.

Sure, but you can also bring in multiple lower priced players.

To see the salaries of everyone (except the newest signed ones), go to...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

For example, maybe you send Kuminga and a couple of smaller contracts, maybe a draft asset to bring back Avdija and R.Williams from Portland for depth. That's just one example of strengthening the roster for the present. Maybe you don't want to risk it with Williams and get your wing/guard defender in Thybulle or push to get Camara in the trade. There's a lot of options out there if you have at least one sizable contract to move before the deadline.

If it were me I'd send future pick(s)/swaps/players (some combination of Hield/Podz/Moses/whoever) to get Avdija AND Keon (or Murphy is available). Imagine sending out a lineup with Steph/Keon/Deni/Jimmy/Horford (and/or Time Lord), that's a legit contender IMO, that's how you maximize Steph's window. Draymond gets lost in the mix but he could swap at C or PF or come off the bench situationally.

But alas, it does not seem like Lacob is interested in that path. The Giannis thing is a real long shot, but who knows, I didn't believe KD was coming here either. Problem is the clock is ticking and even if they end up with Giannis and it ends up taking a year or two, it's probably too late.

Bottom line is I don't trust them to hit on top draft picks (even the best teams have hits and misses) so I'd rather see them use those picks now for legit young players who can help immediately (first choice), or, I guess, save them to move for another superstar. And it seems Lacob chooses path #2.

[AirP.]

Someone made a list and it was like Wiggins, Brooks, KCP in that salary range.

Sure, but you can also bring in multiple lower priced players.

To see the salaries of everyone (except the newest signed ones), go to...
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/players.html

For example, maybe you send Kuminga and a couple of smaller contracts, maybe a draft asset to bring back Avdija and R.Williams from Portland for depth. That's just one example of strengthening the roster for the present. Maybe you don't want to risk it with Williams and get your wing/guard defender in Thybulle or push to get Camara in the trade. There's a lot of options out there if you have at least one sizable contract to move before the deadline.

Deni is going to cost more than Keon. If you talk to any portland fan Deni is the guy they want to build around.

Do we really want another pf? Jimmy and Dray are already pfs. We really don't need another pf who would be our 3rd best pf and play them out of position.

It was just an example of acquiring multiple players vs just 1. Options may open up as the season moves along.

[AirP.]

Going through this now.
GS has asked FAs to have patience.
Brogdon and Curry's brother are possibilities.

Mentioned GS may have to have roster spots open to take on multiple players if a Kuminga trade does happen (vs cut current roster players to create those spots), another reason no vet minimums have been signed.

He is saying multiple teams have reached out to Giddy's representation to let them know they're interested in him; GS was the only one he mentioned from this group.

Fischer mentions some type of talk with a swap of Giddy for Kuminga is being thought about which of course would include at least 1 more team if not more. Also mentions GS had expected OKC to take Kuminga 6th and they wanted Giddy at #7. No calls have been made by this group of teams to the Bulls to try to negotiate a trade.

Fischer did not find out who GS would have taken if both had been available at #7.

Fischer mentions GS had wanted Caruso before he got traded to OKC, said multiple 1st were being offered.

C.White is looking for more then 30 mil a year for his extension. (Does Chicago want to possibly give a Giddy/White backcourt 60+ million)?

Watch on YouTube

[statsman]

Going through this now.
GS has asked FAs to have patience.
Brogdon and Curry's brother are possibilities.

Mentioned GS may have to have roster spots open to take on multiple players if a Kuminga trade does happen (vs cut current roster players to create those spots), another reason no vet minimums have been signed.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

So, these vets sit around waiting, and there's the possibility that the Warriors would need to pass on some of them because of a Kuminga S&T?

If I'm these vets, go get the sure thing now. This is ridiculous to ask these players to stick around and possibly (however remote) they might get screwed over.

Better to sign now with a team they would want to play for rather than be limited to teams with available roster spots 1-2 months from now.

[AirP.]

Going through this now.
GS has asked FAs to have patience.
Brogdon and Curry's brother are possibilities.

Mentioned GS may have to have roster spots open to take on multiple players if a Kuminga trade does happen (vs cut current roster players to create those spots), another reason no vet minimums have been signed.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

So, these vets sit around waiting, and there's the possibility that the Warriors would need to pass on some of them because of a Kuminga S&T?

If I'm these vets, go get the sure thing now. This is ridiculous to ask these players to stick around and possibly (however remote) they might get screwed over.

Better to sign now with a team they would want to play for rather than be limited to teams with available roster spots 1-2 months from now.

No... To complete a deal you have to have the roster spots available to take on the players in the trade, after that you can waive or buy them out once the trade is complete to open up the roster spots for the FAs.

[Twinkie defense]

^ If teams want Kuminga because he is an expiring contract what's the point. There are plenty of expiring contracts in the league if that's what your looking for.

Do those expiring contracts come with post-Steph Curry first round picks?

Here's a very interesting question to ponder, when is the post-Curry era? It's quite possible there's very little drop off for Curry and even Butler in the next 2 seasons (although health risks should continue to go up), both are skilled, high BBIQ players, don't rely on their athletic ability like most and they both also seem to be very professional with their bodies with great time management to balance their personal and professional lives. Whereas that 2028 pick looks like it could be a lottery pick with Curry, Butler and Draymond's contracts ending in 2027, they may not be done as high-level players. If GS knows Curry will take an extension and will still be a high-level player, it's possible to sell high on the 2028 pick before the rest of the league knows Curry stays around. This also might be a reason why GS isn't keeping Kuminga around for the post-Curry era because it may not start in 2027.

That's what I was thinking, it would be funny if teams put a high trade value on the Warriors' 2028 first round pick and Stephen Curry is still cooking lol

[statsman]

Going through this now.
GS has asked FAs to have patience.
Brogdon and Curry's brother are possibilities.

Mentioned GS may have to have roster spots open to take on multiple players if a Kuminga trade does happen (vs cut current roster players to create those spots), another reason no vet minimums have been signed.

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

So, these vets sit around waiting, and there's the possibility that the Warriors would need to pass on some of them because of a Kuminga S&T?

If I'm these vets, go get the sure thing now. This is ridiculous to ask these players to stick around and possibly (however remote) they might get screwed over.

Better to sign now with a team they would want to play for rather than be limited to teams with available roster spots 1-2 months from now.

No... To complete a deal you have to have the roster spots available to take on the players in the trade, after that you can waive or buy them out once the trade is complete to open up the roster spots for the FAs.

I understand the part of needing roster spots to make trades. Ugh. But what if what returns in a Kuminga S&T are two lower salaried players the Warriors intend to keep? If they're going to be anal about this, why not consider that possibility?

[AirP.]

So, these vets sit around waiting, and there's the possibility that the Warriors would need to pass on some of them because of a Kuminga S&T?

If I'm these vets, go get the sure thing now. This is ridiculous to ask these players to stick around and possibly (however remote) they might get screwed over.

Better to sign now with a team they would want to play for rather than be limited to teams with available roster spots 1-2 months from now.

No... To complete a deal you have to have the roster spots available to take on the players in the trade, after that you can waive or buy them out once the trade is complete to open up the roster spots for the FAs.

I understand the part of needing roster spots to make trades. Ugh. But what if what returns in a Kuminga S&T are two lower salaried players the Warriors intend to keep? If they're going to anal about this, why not consider that possibility?

I would hope the minimum guys have been given the situation. For instance telling Horford he's getting more then the vet min and hopefully Melton would be geting a vet min if he waits while Seth Curry, GP2 and Brogdon "probably" would get a vet min with GS, I would suspect if GS wouldn't sign all those players, they could find a team willing to give them a vet minimum, they just prefer to play for a contender and quite possibly a role in the rotation.