Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[Lalouie]

What player played with more allstar teammates than LeBron before playing with him and during playing with him. Doubt it's close At all.

when a teammate was an allstar or whatever before during or after all reflect the quality of the player regardless. lebron has played with SIXTY all pro/all star/hof/all D players

because players stuck with one team through it all, their teammates were limited by what the org could assemble so i would guess kobe might be next but i'll bet it's around 10+

[Caneman786]

I agree with John. Own em!

[LockoutSeason]

Stockton played in the watered down ‘90s with a HOF teammate and still couldn’t sneak out a ring.

[RRR3]

Quick question.

Has Lebron ever had anything REMOTELY close to the talent level Stockton had in his first stint in cleveland?

Malone all those cavs players put together i mean what are we talking about?

These old heads are borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word) with their takes at times.

nor did he have kareem or pippen or mchale

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. he only had to gather the best at that time. wade bosh allen battier love kyrie ad and a total of 60 allstar/all pro/hof/ all D teammates ...BY FAR more than any other goat ever had

lebron only had to put his thumb on the scales when he was playing

i'm pretty sure all the past greats except maybe walton, has thrown a stinky eye lebron's way

Ray Allen and Battier

[Caneman786]

Quick question.

Has Lebron ever had anything REMOTELY close to the talent level Stockton had in his first stint in cleveland?

Malone all those cavs players put together i mean what are we talking about?

These old heads are borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word) with their takes at times.

nor did he have kareem or pippen or mchale

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. he only had to gather the best at that time. wade bosh allen battier love kyrie ad and a total of 60 allstar/all pro/hof/ all D teammates ...BY FAR more than any other goat ever had

lebron only had to put his thumb on the scales when he was playing

i'm pretty sure all the past greats except maybe walton, has thrown a stinky eye lebron's way

Ray Allen and Battier

This is what LeBron fans do. They take after LeBron and all his character flaws. Blame the other, don't blame yourself.

Ray Allen and Battier were like that. We don't love or respect LeBron.

[MavsDirk41]

Stockton played in the watered down ‘90s with a HOF teammate and still couldn’t sneak out a ring.

Watered down 90s lol

What team had more talent in the eastern conference then the 2010-2014 Miami Heat and the 2015-2018 Cleveland Cavaliers? The east was kind of “watered down” wouldn’t ya say?

[MavsDirk41]

nor did he have kareem or pippen or mchale

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. he only had to gather the best at that time. wade bosh allen battier love kyrie ad and a total of 60 allstar/all pro/hof/ all D teammates ...BY FAR more than any other goat ever had

lebron only had to put his thumb on the scales when he was playing

i'm pretty sure all the past greats except maybe walton, has thrown a stinky eye lebron's way

Ray Allen and Battier

This is what LeBron fans do. They take after LeBron and all his character flaws. Blame the other, don't blame yourself.

Ray Allen and Battier were like that. We don't love or respect LeBron.

Lebron never played with any talent

[RRR3]

Old Ray Allen and Battier were good role players but dude was listing them alongside people like Wade as if they were notable help for an ATG to have.

[Stan]

They are not worth nothing, they are just worth less.

They're worth so much more than the KD Warrior titles, those are truly the most insignificant rings.

Curry's 2015 one is incredibly weak as well.

[Caneman786]

Honestly the way I see it

This new generation and the way LeBron does things really symbolizes moral decline.

Back in the day, people used to be ashamed if they did what LeBron did. Now, they make fun of you if you don't do what he did.

This is why I respect Giannis. One of my favorite athletes in sports. The guy is from Nigeria. Family is important to him. He grew up poor, so he isn't entitled and takes whatever he has going on for granted. He isnt complaining and crying all the time for a few more dollars. He's happy with what hes got. He doesn't look down on the common people like I Show Speed (for example, the way Kevin Durant looked down at him).

And deep down, I think the real reason he hasn't left Milwaukee like all the people want him to do, is because he still has a shred of that old school loyalty. He likes the city of Milwaukee and wants to be a lifer. And he isn't a quitter who wants the easy way out.

These days, the new generation always looks for the easy way out. Giannis bucks the trend, and that's why I respect him and got hope in him as long as he can stay firm in Milwaukee. We need guys like Giannis.

[Lalouie]

Quick question.

Has Lebron ever had anything REMOTELY close to the talent level Stockton had in his first stint in cleveland?

Malone all those cavs players put together i mean what are we talking about?

These old heads are borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word) with their takes at times.

nor did he have kareem or pippen or mchale

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. he only had to gather the best at that time. wade bosh allen battier love kyrie ad and a total of 60 allstar/all pro/hof/ all D teammates ...BY FAR more than any other goat ever had

lebron only had to put his thumb on the scales when he was playing

i'm pretty sure all the past greats except maybe walton, has thrown a stinky eye lebron's way

Ray Allen and Battier

this is the problem with the bronettes. what a joke,,,comparing lebron's teammates with greats of the past. the lebronettes miss the forest.

lebron only had to be better than the rest of the league, and in the east that was an easy chore which makes leaving the cavs even worse. everyone to a man thought miami had a lopsided edge

[prophet_of_rage]

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

What if he pouted and threatened to leave unless they brought him more help. Would that have been ok?

Has to be.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[LockoutSeason]

Stockton played in the watered down ‘90s with a HOF teammate and still couldn’t sneak out a ring.

Watered down 90s lol

What team had more talent in the eastern conference then the 2010-2014 Miami Heat and the 2015-2018 Cleveland Cavaliers? The east was kind of “watered down” wouldn’t ya say?

5 teams lost 60 games in the Western Conference in 1998. That’s almost half of the teams in the conference. lol

Lebron has never played in a league that bad, not even the eastern conference.

The ‘90s were a Mickey Mouse era propped up by MJ’s marketing department.

[JellosJigglin]

nor did he have kareem or pippen or mchale

HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. he only had to gather the best at that time. wade bosh allen battier love kyrie ad and a total of 60 allstar/all pro/hof/ all D teammates ...BY FAR more than any other goat ever had

lebron only had to put his thumb on the scales when he was playing

i'm pretty sure all the past greats except maybe walton, has thrown a stinky eye lebron's way

Ray Allen and Battier

this is the problem with the bronettes. what a joke,,,comparing lebron's teammates with greats of the past. the lebronettes miss the forest.

lebron only had to be better than the rest of the league, and in the east that was an easy chore which makes leaving the cavs even worse. everyone to a man thought miami had a lopsided edge

It would've been like Magic teaming up with Bird. People want to see rivals go at each other not team up. It was a P move. LeBron has always been self conscious about manufacturing his legacy. He crowned himself the chosen one and called himself the greatest of all time. Cringe. Man has no shame nor respect for the greats before him and his stans fall right in line with whatever he says. Can't wait until he's gone.

[EArl]

Why is it the ones that never won a single thing love to yap?

[76Shots]

Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

Ah yes, what star wouldn't want to rest their championship aspirations on players like Big Z, Rick Davis, Darius Miles, Sasha Pavlovic, Boobie Gibson, Anderson Varejao, Mo Williams (he even made an all-star team once ), Larry Hughes (who, to your point, had already played with Iverson), JJ Hickson (who CLE supposedly refused to give up for prime Staudemire), and how can I forget the Big Diesel himself, Shaq? Hell Kobe won a title with Shaq, and Wade won a title with Shaq. Why couldn't LeBron?

[Johnny Bball]

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins a championship. He goes to Miami he is a ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

How do you know he never wins in Cleveland. You don't.

Stockton might be FOs, but the one thing there is no doubt about, Lebron has colluded more than once to win titles. Or it has resulted in winning titles.

And if you want to respond players can't collude, you're wrong.

[Franco]

Lebron was in a no-win situation. He stays in Cleveland, in his first stint, he never wins championship. He goes to Miami he is ring chaser and his rings are devalued.

The typical straw man as if there wasnt a honorable third way - leave Cleveland but dont go and build a superteam with two other top tier superstars and hide in the east and fill up with great role players.

He could have done a dozen other things people would have accepted, he could have won titles - a few less maybe but a lot more respectable. He chose the easiest possible way while still demanding people call him GOAT. But...GOATs do not need to take the easiest way.

Dirk, Giannis, Kawhi, Joker won without the weak stuff. When all the media manipulation and hype is over, it will be commonly accepted those people are more relevant than LeBron in the big picture.

The guy that said "either get me the MVP runner up or I'm going to the Lakers with LeBron and AD"? What the **** are you going on about

[dhsilv2]

Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

Why is this supposed to be an argument against Lebron's decision? If there was a Celtics or even Magic team like we had in the mid to late 2000s in the early 2000s, Jason Kidd and Iverson would not even have a finals appearance as the lead guy, so why is this arguing against Lebron's decision, you're arguing for the decision by saying this.

None of those guys had a true contending roster in those seasons, and most years were 1st round, at best 2nd round exits. AI got to the finals in a weak East where his team was no match, LeBron's 2007 Cavs were an equally poor roster relative to competition in the East as that Philly team.

Carter asked for trade, TMac asked for a trade. Kobe after Shaq threatened to leave if the roster didn't improve and that was what, like 3 seasons? Lebron gave the Cavs 7 seasons.

So you're arguing that Lebron should have hung around on 1st/2nd round teams and then asked for a trade?

Great points in general. But AI was on one of 2 teams in the NBA with 2 all nba players in 2001. The two teams met in the finals.

[Iwasawitness]

There is some truth to it, but the Cavs front office was not great at the time. Sure, he could have just stayed and hoped something would happen, but it wasn't a guarantee. I don't blame him for going to Miami.

The article mentions Jordan sticking it out with the same team without asking for a trade or asking for help, but he didn't have to. Pippen and Grant came along. Then Rodman. It wasn't guaranteed that would happen for James in Cleveland during the first stint.

so james went out of his way to guarantee it....that's stockton's whole point

Then his point is wrong.

There was nothing guaranteed about any of LeBron's championships in Miami and Cleveland. Each of them required LeBron to play on a level that wasn't much different from his first stint in Cleveland.

2012: He had to put up a historic performance to save Miami from elimination and averaged 30 PPG in the finals against OKC.

2013: He had to score 16 points in the fourth quarter of game 6 to get Miami back in the game after they entered the quarter down double digits, and then needed to be dominant in game 7 to seal the deal.

2016: He had to give back to back 40 point game performances and a triple double in game 7, all while leading both teams in every major statistical category.

If LeBron were riding the cocktails of someone else to get these championships, that would be one thing. But that simply isn't how it all played out. Yeah, LeBron thought it'd be easy. Reality painted a different picture. We've had people here claiming guys like Jokic deserve more respect even though he actually did in fact have it easy. LeBron, apart from 2020, was simply not that fortunate.