Cooper Flagg Rookie Season Expectations

[Caneman786]

I'm expecting great things for Cooper.

If you compare his college career to Tatum's directly, you'll see something interesting:

They both went to Duke, but Cooper owns in every way. And is 3 months younger.

Then we saw Tatum peaked at 4th in MVP voting.

Cooper can easily become an MVP.

[Bucks4005]

I'm expecting great things for Cooper.

If you compare his college career to Tatum's directly, you'll see something interesting:

They both went to Duke, but Cooper owns in every way. And is 3 months younger.

Then we saw Tatum peaked at 4th in MVP voting.

Cooper can easily become an MVP.

I thought if that comparison, I just think don’t know if Flagg has the shooting ability. Tatum can shoot volume from 3, and Flagg might be able to do that, but I don’t see that one on one mid range upside that we saw with Tatum, which is a big part in opening up your offensive game. Felt Tatum had more perimeter ability, Flagg is closer to a big than a perimeter SF right now.

I’ll stick with Wagner as my comp. Statistically a 25-5-5 type guy at his peak whose advanced stats show a great defender and love him, but I don’t think Flagg is ever the type to challenge for that scoring title, just not his game. Another comp could be a Jimmy Butler type player, but Flagg has that elite size closer to a Wagner for a SF, but like Butler, I think he’s the type where you check the box score in the 4th wondering why he isn’t scoring more and realize he has 20 points because he leaked out in transition, scored off rebounds, and did the little things offensively that don’t stand out.

[Caneman786]

I'm expecting great things for Cooper.

If you compare his college career to Tatum's directly, you'll see something interesting:

They both went to Duke, but Cooper owns in every way. And is 3 months younger.

Then we saw Tatum peaked at 4th in MVP voting.

Cooper can easily become an MVP.

I thought if that comparison, I just think don’t know if Flagg has the shooting ability. Tatum can shoot volume from 3, and Flagg might be able to do that, but I don’t see that one on one mid range upside that we saw with Tatum, which is a big part in opening up your offensive game. Felt Tatum had more perimeter ability, Flagg is closer to a big than a perimeter SF right now.

I’ll stick with Wagner as my comp. Statistically a 25-5-5 type guy at his peak whose advanced stats show a great defender and love him, but I don’t think Flagg is ever the type to challenge for that scoring title, just not his game. Another comp could be a Jimmy Butler type player, but Flagg has that elite size closer to a Wagner for a SF, but like Butler, I think he’s the type where you check the box score in the 4th wondering why he isn’t scoring more and realize he has 20 points because he leaked out in transition, scored off rebounds, and did the little things offensively that don’t stand out.

Not sure what you're going on with this Wagner stuff. Respectfully it's kind of absurd. Someone earlier in this thread explained the reasons why, completely dismantling your train of thought (respectfully). Not sure if you saw that post or responded to it, and if you did I either didn't notice it or read it but didn't think what you wrote eas compelling.

I like the idea of Jimmy though. Jimmy's one of my favorite players. I don't know if I see that in Cooper honestly. Cooper's kinda different. You could be right though. I think Cooper's shooting will be pretty major though.

This goes to the main point of my post: it's not a given that Cooper is a worse shooter than Tatum. That's highly speculative.

In fact, I think Cooper's gonna be a better shooter than Tatum. Probably by a lot. I don't even have any idea where the idea Tatum's a better shooter than Cooper came from. Maybe it's cuz Tatum does so much shooting in the NBA's cuz of Mazzulla's system. But Tatum's not even that special. What we've seen is that Cooper is way better.

And this is proven!

See: If we compare them in college, Cooper had a higher three point percentage, on a higher number of attempts throughout the season and almost the same amount per game, and a near equal free throw percentage. This includes a major slump he had at the beginning of the year. And he's two and a half months younger (not six as I said earlier). On top of this, Cooper's a demon. He fixes his flaws. I don't know if there's anyone quite like him. Kawhi is probably it. He just finds his weakest point, lasers in, and boom, now it's a strength. I'm not leaving Cooper open from three, that's for sure.

There's no reason to think Tatum's better than him at anything on a basketball court unless Cooper fails to live up to the mark that's already been set by Tatum. And I think Cooper's gonna do it easily. Tatum is not that good.

Go Cooper! Looking forward to watching him grow.

[Bucks4005]

Why is the Wagner stuff absurd? Again, a supersized SF, 6-10, 220 lbs vs 6-9, 205 assuming Flagg doesn’t get bigger, if he does, physically are there any other SFs that are closer to Flaggs size? likely will help the Mavs be an elite defense, just like Wagner has for the Magic who have been a top defense despite starting Banchero who isn’t the strongest defender. Wagner has also shown mixed result results as an offensive player lead, showing creation chops, some shooting ability, and has been a featured player on a team, specifically his German team, showing a capability to be the best player on a team, but maybe not great enough to be the main offensive hub. I didn’t see what was said, but what, what specifically is absurd about the comparison? Are there any other jumbo sized SFs like him in the NBA you can compare him to really? Even if they are, are any in a similar role that could get them to be a high end scorer on their team? Like, what specifically is absurd? That I might not expect him to be like Tatum, a 4 time 1st team all NBA guy? To me it’s more absurd to expect that he will reach that level, that’s a level that there are literally maybe 7 players in the NBA that level right now.

https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/an-in-depth-examination-of-cooper

Before we get to Flagg’s rim finishing, I want to touch on his mid-range shooting. Mid-range shots are for stars. Because the Mavericks are likely going to be projecting a star outcome onto Flagg, it’s worth covering this area of his game. He has room to grow here. Flagg went 33.3% on 63 pull-up twos this past season. A lot of his issues tie back to his handle and coordination. Currently, Flagg doesn’t have the deepest counter bag and often goes to his signature spin move to get to the rack. As a result, he can come unglued when trying to string together dribble combinations and shake defenders at times. When that happens, he tends to go up without an ideal level of balance throughout his core, leading to high degree of difficulty attempts. There’s also a tendency to speed up his release a bit too much in this area of the floor. Other times, Flagg keeps his set-ups perhaps simpler than they should and settles for a tough, contested jumper.



Quote from the article, and what I kinda saw. Right now, I don’t see that mid range ability or polish to makes a “great shooter” that Tatum has coming out. I ge the 3 point shooting, but if your trying g to be an offensive hub, you almost have to have that mid range threat. Like, people thought Tatum would be a high end scorer partly because of the mid range game, which opened up his playmaking, etc, but also illustrated a bit of ball handling chops, skills that people saw right away in college and thought would translate right away, which you kinda need as an offensive hub. Can Flagg develop it, maybe, but I’m It more skeptical about it because bigger guys developing the ball handling the make it work in the NBA is a bit harder if they don’t already have it. I think he has some ball handling ability, so,there’s a chance, but saw more of a connective passer, not someone who was elite and breaking his guy down off the dribble and pulling up for a shot, which is a big part of Tatum game and development as to why he got better in the NBA that people expected.

[TheCage4]

Spoiler:

I know I'm a new moderator, but I find this pretty off colour. You are a retired mod.



This post is not productive, either.



Can we both be better than this level of input, please ? Thank you!

As a retired moderator, and most likely your senior by quite a few years, I encourage you to understand sarcasm and to ultimately relax. Unless someone is posting blatantly derogatory comments that offends the overall masses, there is no need to try to censor, or encourage censorship of a post that is clearly tongue in cheek.

If you are intending to police all comments that are not necessarily your "cup of tea," in the end you will fail as a moderator, and worse, you'll be miserable.

I couldn't care less about your age or seniority, joking about injuries isn't cool. Full stop. I didn't report you or censor your post, by the way... I will consider your tongue-in-cheekiness next time. Thanks for the commentary about future me being miserable; I can't wait to get there.

Sick burn. It's going to take me a while to recover from this one.

Can you recommend me a "safe space" or a "calming corner," where I may collect myself and move on as a better person? Thanks.

Bro what on earth is the point of this.

[bonita_the_frog]

Quote from the article, and what I kinda saw. Right now, I don’t see that mid range ability or polish to makes a “great shooter” that Tatum has coming out. I ge the 3 point shooting, but if your trying g to be an offensive hub, you almost have to have that mid range threat. Like, people thought Tatum would be a high end scorer partly because of the mid range game, which opened up his playmaking, etc, but also illustrated a bit of ball handling chops, skills that people saw right away in college and thought would translate right away, which you kinda need as an offensive hub. Can Flagg develop it, maybe, but I’m It more skeptical about it because bigger guys developing the ball handling the make it work in the NBA is a bit harder if they don’t already have it. I think he has some ball handling ability, so,there’s a chance, but saw more of a connective passer, not someone who was elite and breaking his guy down off the dribble and pulling up for a shot, which is a big part of Tatum game and development as to why he got better in the NBA that people expected.

What about a fade-away jump shot, does Cooper Flaggpole have that?

[Bucks4005]

Quote from the article, and what I kinda saw. Right now, I don’t see that mid range ability or polish to makes a “great shooter” that Tatum has coming out. I ge the 3 point shooting, but if your trying g to be an offensive hub, you almost have to have that mid range threat. Like, people thought Tatum would be a high end scorer partly because of the mid range game, which opened up his playmaking, etc, but also illustrated a bit of ball handling chops, skills that people saw right away in college and thought would translate right away, which you kinda need as an offensive hub. Can Flagg develop it, maybe, but I’m It more skeptical about it because bigger guys developing the ball handling the make it work in the NBA is a bit harder if they don’t already have it. I think he has some ball handling ability, so,there’s a chance, but saw more of a connective passer, not someone who was elite and breaking his guy down off the dribble and pulling up for a shot, which is a big part of Tatum game and development as to why he got better in the NBA that people expected.

What about a fade-away jump shot, does Cooper Flaggpole have that?

I mean it’s not really about the aethsics of a mid range, it’s just the semblance of a high range one. Like, physically, a high scorer end like Tatum has ball handling ability the be one and is s threat from there, so defenses have to play it differently. A Durant SF type has height to get off any shot he wants. PG and SGs that are elite scorers have the ball handling to beat their guy to a spot on the floor the take an open shot. Even a big like Jokic has a ridiculous post set that allows him to put pressure on teams inside the paint and back people down from mid range. These things open up all the other scoring opportunities. I just don’t see the true effectiveness that separates the elite scorers from the good ones in Flagg. He’s just really good at everything, but nothing really stands out as “hang your hat on this one thing”, like the SGA(mid range and FT merchant), Giannis(Best rim pressure in the NBA), or a even a Luka(Another FT merchant with more size and ball handling than Flagg) right. I just see the ball handling that you’ll clearly say “we want every possession to be initiated with him” like a Doncic, Giannis, or Jokic so I compare him to Wagner, a near 25 PPG scorer right now because Flagg still gets points doing little things like that, also like Butler, but physically with his size and growth upside, is much closer to a Wagner type physically.

To all the people referencing 3 point shot, yes, he has that ability. But the ball handling, mid range threat, etc. is what separates Stephen Curry from say the Buddy Hield, is it not? Point is Curry’s ball handling is what makes him so great, the 3 point shot is a clear part, but the ball handling and his ability to get anywhere in the court with the ball is what separates him from others, because he can do that paired with his shooting to get an open shot off from anywhere. Durant as a SF comparison has the height to get off any shot from anywhere on the court. Flagg again, I don’t see that physical elite trait compared to those who have true elite traits like a Durant/Giannis he’s gonna hang his hat on or the high end ball handling progress to be the lead initiator every play like a Doncic or LeBron, a lead ball handler on offense.

[bonita_the_frog]

Quote from the article, and what I kinda saw. Right now, I don’t see that mid range ability or polish to makes a “great shooter” that Tatum has coming out. I ge the 3 point shooting, but if your trying g to be an offensive hub, you almost have to have that mid range threat. Like, people thought Tatum would be a high end scorer partly because of the mid range game, which opened up his playmaking, etc, but also illustrated a bit of ball handling chops, skills that people saw right away in college and thought would translate right away, which you kinda need as an offensive hub. Can Flagg develop it, maybe, but I’m It more skeptical about it because bigger guys developing the ball handling the make it work in the NBA is a bit harder if they don’t already have it. I think he has some ball handling ability, so,there’s a chance, but saw more of a connective passer, not someone who was elite and breaking his guy down off the dribble and pulling up for a shot, which is a big part of Tatum game and development as to why he got better in the NBA that people expected.

What about a fade-away jump shot, does Cooper Flaggpole have that?

I mean it’s not really about the aethsics of a mid range, it’s just the semblance of a high range one. Like, physically, a high scorer end like Tatum has ball handling ability the be one and is s threat from there, so defenses have to play it differently. A Durant SF type has height to get off any shot he wants. PG and SGs that are elite scorers have the ball handling to beat their guy to a spot on the floor the take an open shot. Even a big like Jokic has a ridiculous post set that allows him to put pressure on teams inside the paint and back people down from mid range. These things open up all the other scoring opportunities. I just don’t see the true effectiveness that separates the elite scorers from the good ones in Flagg. He’s just really good at everything, but nothing really stands out as “hang your hat on this one thing”, like the SGA(mid range and FT merchant), Giannis(Best rim pressure in the NBA), or a even a Luka(Another FT merchant with more size and ball handling than Flagg) right. I just see the ball handling that you’ll clearly say “we want every possession to be initiated with him” like a Doncic, Giannis, or Jokic so I compare him to Wagner, a near 25 PPG scorer right now because Flagg still gets points doing little things like that, also like Butler, but physically with his size and growth upside, is much closer to a Wagner type physically.

To all the people referencing 3 point shot, yes, he has that ability. But the ball handling, mid range threat, etc. is what separates Stephen Curry from say the Buddy Hield, is it not? Point is Curry’s ball handling is what makes him so great, the 3 point shot is a clear part, but the ball handling and his ability to get anywhere in the court with the ball is what separates him from others, because he can do that paired with his shooting to get an open shot off from anywhere. Durant as a SF comparison has the height to get off any shot from anywhere on the court. Flagg again, I don’t see that physical elite trait compared to those who have true elite traits like a Durant/Giannis he’s gonna hang his hat on or the high end ball handling progress to be the lead initiator every play like a Doncic or LeBron, a lead ball handler on offense.

Considering the ball will be in Flagg's hands early in each possession, i hope he's selfish enough to look for his own shot... because with his size and ball-handliing, he can back his way into the post and score over a smaller defender.... that could be his go-to play for consistent scoring.

Yup nice point about Curry, people think of his 3-pointers mostly, and his moving without the ball, but yeah he dribbles the ball everywhere and shoots well from everywhere including the midrange and paint.

But at least Flagg is so tall he won't need to create space as much, so he'll be like Durant but with worse shooting and better passing skills i guess.
I agree Flagg should score 25ppg, but i've heard he's unselfish, so i hope his unselfishness doesn't get in the way of his PPG.

[HMFFL]

Is there any chance Cooper Flagg wins MVP if Dallas finished Top2 and Flagg scores 25ppg?
Has a rookie ever won MVP?

I expect the Mavs to be 10th at best in the West.

Rookies typically don't make the All-Star team, not that you mentioned it, but Blake Griffin was the last rookie to do it.

Off the top of my head, I believe Wes Unseld won MVP as a rookie, but I'm not sure if he's the only rookie to win it.

[bonita_the_frog]

Is there any chance Cooper Flagg wins MVP if Dallas finished Top2 and Flagg scores 25ppg?
Has a rookie ever won MVP?

I expect the Mavs to be 10th at best in the West.

Rookies typically don't make the All-Star team, not that you mentioned it, but Blake Griffin was the last rookie to do it.

Off the top of my head, I believe Wes Unseld won MVP as a rookie, but I'm not sure if he's the only rookie to win it.

Yep i checked it, Wilt and Unseld.
Unseld won it with 13.8 points per game, 18.2 rebounds per game.
That's probably the most likely way for a rookie to win MVP, big rebounding numbers.

Because a lot of big men have had their best rebounding or shot-blocking numbers early in their career.
Griffin averaged 12.1 rebounds per game in his rookie season and never averaged 11 ever again.
Rookie Shaq averaged a career-high 13.9 rebounds and 3.5 blocks.

But obviously most dominant rookies are not in teams that finish top of the West or East, so hard to win MVP.
At least Cooper Flagg has a roster that could finish top 4 in the West, if Irving returns soon enough....

Though i only predict Dallas to finish 6th, because unsure of Irving's return and i'm going to assume the worst with Flagg, because rookies are unpredictable... but if Flagg dominates then anything's possible with such a great defense roster.