Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[JujitsuFlip]

Jordan has 2 3 peats winning 6 championships in 8 years as the best player on the team while never being outplayed by the best player on the opposing team. Who else did that? Russell?

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

And the goat of the National Basketball Association should never:

Be outplayed by my man Dirk in the finals
Be the second best player on his team in the finals
Have a 4-6 finals record
Collude with/recruit other all star players to stack the deck
Call himself the goat cause he is insecure

Lol get real

Why not? lol he's played in the NBA longer than any other player ever has or most likely, ever will. There's bound to be a million things a pro encounters in a 23 year career.

[JujitsuFlip]

You're going to figure it all out to win instantly and get enough of you investment back in 4 years? Gilbert literally did figure it out after 2010. So got it, James is the goat, but would NEVER had won if he stayed in Cleveland, even though he won in Cleveland. Good lord man...at least try to be slightly objective. Yeah you lol you ass off while not actually even thinking 5 year contracts can impact 4 year plans.

Yep, roll players that get traded frequently have won with different team. Just as the goat that colluded to win, but could never win without collusion, even though he's the goat. I think I understand the pretzel logic... that it isn't logic.

It's not hard to follow, if you want to.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Kyrie if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Wiggins if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Bennett if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Waiters if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs sign Jon Leuer if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

LOL!

The exact response i would expect lol you don't know the Cavs history one bit.

You're just part of the "lulz LBJ colluded" crowd.

[Johnny Bball]

It's not hard to follow, if you want to.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Kyrie if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Wiggins if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Bennett if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs have the opportunity to draft Waiters if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

Do the Cavs sign Jon Leuer if LeBron stays? I'll answer for you, no.

LOL!

Yeah, there's never been star players that sign to play with James either!

You're entire point is completely conflicting.

The exact response i would expect lol you don't know the Cavs history one bit.

You're just part of the "lulz LBJ colluded" crowd.

Now you are pretending he never colluded? Good god. Have a great weekend.

[JujitsuFlip]

LOL!

Yeah, there's never been star players that sign to play with James either!

You're entire point is completely conflicting.

The exact response i would expect lol you don't know the Cavs history one bit.

You're just part of the "lulz LBJ colluded" crowd.

Now you are pretending he never colluded? Good god. Have a great weekend.

Who cares? Literally. Or will you say Stockton again?

The guy has left every team as a free agent. He has fulfilled every single contract. He's won a title at every stop.

You're just mad he won at every stop. If he didn't you could clown him like KD, Harden, and Kyrie.

His teaming up worked, cry harder.

[Ben-N1ce]

Jordan has 2 3 peats winning 6 championships in 8 years as the best player on the team while never being outplayed by the best player on the opposing team. Who else did that? Russell?

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

And the goat of the National Basketball Association should never:

Be outplayed by my man Dirk in the finals
Be the second best player on his team in the finals
Have a 4-6 finals record
Collude with/recruit other all star players to stack the deck
Call himself the goat cause he is insecure

Lol get real

According to LeBron he won 2 of the hardest titles in history one being the bubble. The Bubble was the most Hostile environment of his career . Goat.

[Myth]

I think there’s a difference between going to a better situation vs constructing super teams with different franchises over and over (while partially being able to do so because your buddy is an agent which is a whole different conversation)

Man, if the GM is not doing their job why not build your own team. In the NBA, your legacy is stupidly determined by titles. If I can build my legacy I will do it; if not, people will call me a loser otherwise.

There’s levels to it. Trying to stack the deck repeatedly is not the sign of true competitors

I think LeBron would have been looked at more favorably if he stayed in Miami after the decline and retirements of Wade and Bosh. Miami was a competent organization; LeBron just didn't have the patience to let them do anything as Wade and Bosh were clearly declining. Instead, LeBron went to the Cavs, who had a young all-star and a fresh #1 pick to trade for another all-star.

[MavsDirk41]

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

And the goat of the National Basketball Association should never:

Be outplayed by my man Dirk in the finals
Be the second best player on his team in the finals
Have a 4-6 finals record
Collude with/recruit other all star players to stack the deck
Call himself the goat cause he is insecure

Lol get real

Why not? lol he's played in the NBA longer than any other player ever has or most likely, ever will. There's bound to be a million things a pro encounters in a 23 year career.

Point being James can be clowned on just like you clowing on Jordan for retiring to go play baseball. We can find issues with every player who is a top 10 player in nba history. No player is perfect. Jordans dad was found dead on the roadside in 93. I dont blame him for taking a break and pursuing baseball if it meant something to him and his dad. Its cool for James to bounce around the league but Jordan cant make his own decisions? Lol why?

[Myth]

Yup, GOAT. Tell me another player who won titles with 3 different teams...

He's the only person in the conversation who was on 3 different teams in or close to his prime. Kareem won with 2 teams, but also only played for 2 teams. Jordan only played for 2 teams, but only 1 team in his prime. If we want to throw Kobe in here (who I don't view as a GOAT candidate, but others throw him in the conversation) only played for 1 team. Duncan 1 team. Magic 1 team. Bird 1 team. Bill Russell 1 team. Wilt and Shaq are the only players remotely in the conversation to have played for 3 or more teams. Congrats to LeBron on being the only player to accomplish a feat only 2 other top 10 players put themselves in position to be eligible for.

[MavsDirk41]

No one cares, the GOAT of professional basketball should never be a guy who quit the sport to go play 2 different sports, at an amateur level and fail lol get real.

And the goat of the National Basketball Association should never:

Be outplayed by my man Dirk in the finals
Be the second best player on his team in the finals
Have a 4-6 finals record
Collude with/recruit other all star players to stack the deck
Call himself the goat cause he is insecure

Lol get real

According to LeBron he won 2 of the hardest titles in history one being the bubble. The Bubble was the most Hostile environment of his career . Goat.

Lol im surprised he didnt say he won the 4 most difficult championships in nba history

[PierceFan4ever]

Lebron is the goat ring chaser. He team hopped multiple times to play with multiple stars each time. Whenever things starting to look bleak, he immediately switched teams to better scenarios while majority of the time playing in an all time weak eastern conference which basically was a red carpet to the finals.

And people still overrate the **** out of the 2016 title as if it’s worth 3 titles when those same almighty, unbeatable warriors team were down 3-1 to Kevin Durant’s Thunder the previous round.

[Memories]

Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

That Cleveland team was bad. Before the recent Piston team, they were the worse team record wise in NBA history Lebron left, lol. The fact LBJ brought that team to the finals tells you how good Lebron was rather than how good that team was. And it kinda tells you how much better Lebron is compared to the players you listed.

Those Cleveland teams had a ton more talent than the ones those guys were carrying.

Agreed.

Kobe 2005-2007 would have KILLED to have Mo Williams, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Larry Hughes, Drew Gooden, heck even Anderson Varejão over whoever thought THIS roster was a good idea on any team:

Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Brian Cook, Devan George, Maurice Evans? Lamar Odom was legit the only player worth a damn on that roster. Bynum was a project who didn’t become good until the year Pau Gasol arrived.

Allen Iverson would have killed to even have SOMEBODY else score on offense whether it was Mo or Larry Hughes.

[DimesandKnicks]

Go look at some of the teams ai tmac iverson pierce carter Kobe etc had in the early to mid 2000s. They’d be begging to have the talent LeBron was surrounded with in his first Cleveland run.

Lebron in Cleveland pretty much played with a worse version of AI's title team, maybe same talent or slightly better. TMac, and Carter won nothing and Kobe and Pierce didn't win until you surrounded the with talent that Lebron could have also won a championship with.

Instead of degrading lebron for opting to leave teams, as a free agent (never demanding trades like Kobe did), applaud him for getting to the finals with every single team he's played with.

[Godymas]

of the 4 titles LeBron earned, only 1 would really be viewed as a "true" title which is 2016

2012 and 2013 were a result of LeBron stacking the deck and he still got incredibly fortunate in 2013 with arguably the greatest shot in NBA history

2020 is the fakest title in NBA history, no NBA season has ever had a 3 month break between the regular season and playoffs. It's complete nonsense. No NBA season will ever have a 3 month break between the regular season and playoffs barring another freak global incident.

2012 and 2013 don't have value because he "stacked the deck", even though his team went into the 2012 finals as the underdogs, and they were one Ray Allen three away from losing in 2013?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 90% of you don't know what stacking the deck means.

Your 2020 argument is too laughable to put any time into explaining why it's wrong (which it is btw).

If it was laughable it would be easy for you to explain why it’s wrong, but it isn’t . In almost 80 NBA seasons, the playoffs happen immediately after a 60-80 game regular season. 2020 is the only year when the professionals were able to take 3 months off between the regular season and the playoffs. 3 months to recover, rest, rehab, etc. that has never been an option for any other season of NBA basketball. It’s not a true ring, the players did not play a true season.

[JujitsuFlip]

Yup, GOAT. Tell me another player who won titles with 3 different teams...

He's the only person in the conversation who was on 3 different teams in or close to his prime. Kareem won with 2 teams, but also only played for 2 teams. Jordan only played for 2 teams, but only 1 team in his prime. If we want to throw Kobe in here (who I don't view as a GOAT candidate, but others throw him in the conversation) only played for 1 team. Duncan 1 team. Magic 1 team. Bird 1 team. Bill Russell 1 team. Wilt and Shaq are the only players remotely in the conversation to have played for 3 or more teams. Congrats to LeBron on being the only player to accomplish a feat only 2 other top 10 players put themselves in position to be eligible for.

Still a cool accomplishment though, regardless.

[JayMKE]

Not going thru whole thread but did anybody actually read the quote?

“I like where guys tighten their belt up and say…let’s go to work. We just got to get better. We got to play harder. We gotta play smarter, instead of just huh, where’s the grass greener? I’m gonna go there and win a championship. I think it devalues that. You’re not climbing the mountain, you’re taking a helicopter to the top.”

He’s just saying he values sticking with one team despite the obstacles and winning a championship, literally what we all do. Dirk’s one championship is universally beloved for those reason, the guys who stick with one team are really special. The quote is not that LeBron’s championships don’t have value, it simply against team hopping which is part of LeBron’s legacy like it or not.

[JujitsuFlip]

And the goat of the National Basketball Association should never:

Be outplayed by my man Dirk in the finals
Be the second best player on his team in the finals
Have a 4-6 finals record
Collude with/recruit other all star players to stack the deck
Call himself the goat cause he is insecure

Lol get real

Why not? lol he's played in the NBA longer than any other player ever has or most likely, ever will. There's bound to be a million things a pro encounters in a 23 year career.

Point being James can be clowned on just like you clowing on Jordan for retiring to go play baseball. We can find issues with every player who is a top 10 player in nba history. No player is perfect. Jordans dad was found dead on the roadside in 93. I dont blame him for taking a break and pursuing baseball if it meant something to him and his dad. Its cool for James to bounce around the league but Jordan cant make his own decisions? Lol why?

And he quit the 2nd time to play Pro-Am golf, why was that? Because his college coach enjoyed it? Or who did it mean something to?

What about the 3rd time, it wasn't because the goat was about to be drafted in 2 months after he hung it up, right?

[DimesandKnicks]

Why is this supposed to be an argument against Lebron's decision? If there was a Celtics or Magic team like we had in the mid to late 2000s in the early 2000s, Jason Kidd and Iverson would not even have a finals appearance as the lead guy, so why is this arguing against Lebron's decision, you're arguing for the decision by saying this.

None of those guys had a true contending roster in those seasons, and most years were 1st round, at best 2nd round exits. AI got to the finals in a weak East where his team was no match, LeBron's 2007 Cavs were an equally poor roster relative to competition in the East as that Philly team.

Carter asked for trade, TMac asked for a trade. Kobe after Shaq threatened to leave if the roster didn't improve and that was what, like 3 seasons? Lebron gave the Cavs 7 seasons.

So you're arguing that Lebron should have hung around on 1st/2nd round teams and then asked for a trade?

No, I’m saying he went and repeatedly tried to form super teams in his prime with different franchises when the going got rough where he was. None of those guys did that to that degree. No one in history besides kd and harden.

Well, first of all LeBron's prime was like 3 times as long as 3 of those guys, so they didn't even have a chance to do it if they wanted to.

Second, regardless, take out Kobe who got to play on the franchise that gets all the players and championships and already had 3 championships, none of those guys won a championship or were ever on a contender.

So if you're argument is, well, look, these guys on poor or mediocre run franchises had worse rosters and accomplished nothing, so Lebron shouldn't have tried to form strong teams, it's an argument for, not against Lebron.

Kobe on the Lakers, in LA, the land of getting top players, already with 3 chips in the bag, and only 3 years of "suffering", I'm not even sure why he's being mentioned. Oh no, what a hard situation, lol

Not to mention, Kobe pretty much forced his way to LA as a rookie. Wtf are we even talking about

[Godymas]

So 2020 title is different, it does not make it fake.

it is fake, i've made my decision, doesn't matter if in that year it was competitive integrity. Compared to every other year in NBA history it destroys the integrity due to a free off-season between the regular season and the playoffs. There was no marathon that year, it was two short bursts.

All contenders were playing, circumstances were the same for everyone, they played basketball games.

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. Compare it to any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

[JujitsuFlip]

it is fake, i've made my decision, doesn't matter if in that year it was competitive integrity. Compared to every other year in NBA history it destroys the integrity due to a free off-season between the regular season and the playoffs. There was no marathon that year, it was two short bursts.

All contenders were playing, circumstances were the same for everyone, they played basketball games.

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. It compared any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

No other team had to sit in isolation without their family, friends, trainers either. For multiple months.

[Godymas]

All contenders were playing, circumstances were the same for everyone, they played basketball games.

In every other year all contenders play 90-100 games in a row. In 2020 the contenders played 40-50 games and then had 3 months off. It compared any other contender in NBA history, they had a huge break to rehab, get healthy, get rested, and then play the playoffs. It is a 1 unique occurrence in 80 seasons, it is the anomaly, it is different, it is not competitive with other NBA championships that required winning across nearly 100 games with no break. It is an insult to the actual effort required to win a championship ring.

No other team had to sit in isolation without their family, friends, trainers either. For multiple months.

exactly, that’s another thing that makes it different, every single thing you can say about 2020 is significantly different from any other ring in NBA history, it doesn’t have any competitive integrity to it.