Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[RHODEY]

They are not worth nothing, they are just worth less.

Facts

[RHODEY]

Stockton said Lebron's titles do not have value because Stockton is jealous, Stockton should shut up

I doubt he's jealous of the guy that tried to cheat the game while damaging his legacy.

[DimesandKnicks]

Dirk Nowitzki and jokic did something LeBron could never do and that’s win a championship without any help.

LeBron could only win when he was on a super team.

Dirk and jokic won a championship with literally no all stars on their team. They earned their championships, LeBron didn’t. He took the easy way.

Dirk probably played with more allstars and talented players than most of his peers. His teams were contenders/psuedo contenders from the word go. He played for a competent organization that constantly surrounded him with elite talent.

Jokic doesn’t win a championship without Murray averaging like 20 and 10 throughout that playoff run

Jason Kidd was roughly 37 or 38 years old when the Mavs won the title. Shawn Marion was around 33 years old and was a journeyman at this point. Dallas gave Marion life again.

Tyson Chandler made one all-star team two YEARS after being a Mav and winning a title.

Peja Stojaković was 33 years old when he was a Mav. He retired after he won the title that season. He hadn't been an all-star since he was 26 years old.

Who is the elite talent that was surrounding Dirk? He had high IQ basketball minds around him that knew their role the year we won the title.

Dallas couldn’t attract elite talent and still can't.

What they had was depth. In the regular season not a single player on that Mavs roster played 35 minutes a game and in the playoffs only Dirk and Kidd played over 35 minutes.

Compare that to Heatles that year where Wade, Lebron and Bosh all played nearly 40 minutes or more with the next player getting the most minutes was Joel Anthony at just under 30 minutes.

In comparison, Jason Terry played the fourth most minutes on the Mavs (around 32) and he was their second leading scorer. Mind you came off the bench, I believe Deshawn Stevenson was their starter who was a good defender.

Chandler was DPOY, all nba third team and all nba defense the following year. He played the fifth most minutes in the playoffs and played under 30 minutes in the regular season for the Mavs splitting minutes with Haywood who was also a serviceable C.

Peja was a role playing playing under 18 minutes a game. His role was the knock down threes. Compare him to Bibby who was playing 20 minutes in the game who was absolutely worthless. Combine him w JJ also coming off the bench

Kidd was an allstar the year prior and as much as people talk about Dirk running through that gauntlet in the west offensively, Kidd was responsibly for neutralizing those teams best perimeter players, which he did a damn good job of which included playing a huge role in shutting down James.

To tie all that together u have an atg coach in Jim Carey.

So to say elite talent, may be a push but they were an elite team, top down, as any championship team has to be.

And Dallas has ALWAYS had elite talent. Dirk played with a loooong list off all stars elite role players and players who won other accolades along with two HOF coaches

[Tracymcgoaty]

Aren't you doing the exact same thing?

Stockton’s one of the greatest players and minds in nba history. If dudes on a message board are acting like they are higher authorities on basketball than he is then the burden of proof is on them.

This isn't a technical discussion. The value of a championship is not for Stockton to judge alone.

Here is a also a question. Would Stockton have won if he were playing with Wade and Bosh? I am not so sure.

OP is just trying to keep the narrative he's built in his head alive.

[falcolombardi]

I trust stockton about winning as much as i trust him about vaccine epidemiology

[Myth]

Yup, GOAT. Tell me another player who won titles with 3 different teams...

He's the only person in the conversation who was on 3 different teams in or close to his prime. Kareem won with 2 teams, but also only played for 2 teams. Jordan only played for 2 teams, but only 1 team in his prime. If we want to throw Kobe in here (who I don't view as a GOAT candidate, but others throw him in the conversation) only played for 1 team. Duncan 1 team. Magic 1 team. Bird 1 team. Bill Russell 1 team. Wilt and Shaq are the only players remotely in the conversation to have played for 3 or more teams. Congrats to LeBron on being the only player to accomplish a feat only 2 other top 10 players put themselves in position to be eligible for.

Still a cool accomplishment though, regardless.

It is a cool accomplishment, but it means minimal in terms of arguments for who is the GOAT and who is not.

[SFour]

Let's not revise history; it was LeBron who started the super team era.

Lebron brought a knife to a fist fight while KD took out a gun...there's a difference.

Lebron started the superteam stuff but he never joined an established championship caliber team like KD did.....and we've seen the success KD has had starting his own superteams with the Nets and Suns...didn't work out too great.

You considered the Suns a super team? That's odd.

The Nets had a 12-3 record when KD, Kyrie, and Harden played together in Brooklyn. It's odd that you would mention that it didn't work out due to the cermistances. Covid was a thing but you act as if the three of them played a full season together...15 games!

KD to Golden is a problem for you as well. KD lead them to two championships and won the FMVP both times. If you fail to realize he was the guy on Golden State you might be part of the peohlem. The chances are low that Golden State wins those two titles without KD.

Oh, wait, according to what you said about the Suns, Nets, and KD in Golden State, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Warriors won championships before and after KD, so his 2 "hard road" championships aren't impressing anyone.

We should put Jokic on the current OKC roster and then you can convince me how impressive those championships would be

[Iwasawitness]

Let's not revise history; it was LeBron who started the super team era.

Lebron brought a knife to a fist fight while KD took out a gun...there's a difference.

Lebron started the superteam stuff but he never joined an established championship caliber team like KD did.....and we've seen the success KD has had starting his own superteams with the Nets and Suns...didn't work out too great.

You considered the Suns a super team? That's odd.

The Nets had a 12-3 record when KD, Kyrie, and Harden played together in Brooklyn. It's odd that you would mention that it didn't work out due to the cermistances. Covid was a thing but you act as if the three of them played a full season together...15 games!

KD to Golden is a problem for you as well. KD lead them to two championships and won the FMVP both times. If you fail to realize he was the guy on Golden State you might be part of the peohlem. The chances are low that Golden State wins those two titles without KD.

Oh, wait, according to what you said about the Suns, Nets, and KD in Golden State, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Chances are low that they win those titles without KD? What kind of ass backwards logic is this? They won 73 games the previous season. They went to the finals for two straight years. They only lost to Cleveland due to injuries and LeBron being LeBron. Now you want to sit here and act like their chances of winning again are low without KD? And you have the nerve to claim HE doesn't know what he's talking about?

[KyRo23]

At least we can be sure that when the forum is stale, a LeBron slader topic will revive it

[SomeBunghole]

The talent on the Cavs from 2003-2010 is lightyears away from the kind of talent Stockton got during his career with the Jazz.

The best team and most successful Stockton was on was the one when Stockton was in his mid-30s. Stockton was in his 10th season when the Jazz finally got a serviceable shooting guard next to him.

LeBron joined the league 4 years younger than Stockton, has already played 20+ seasons, but he couldn't **** wait 2-3 years at the age of 22 for Cavs to be in a position to put good players around him? Come on.

[JujitsuFlip]

He's the only person in the conversation who was on 3 different teams in or close to his prime. Kareem won with 2 teams, but also only played for 2 teams. Jordan only played for 2 teams, but only 1 team in his prime. If we want to throw Kobe in here (who I don't view as a GOAT candidate, but others throw him in the conversation) only played for 1 team. Duncan 1 team. Magic 1 team. Bird 1 team. Bill Russell 1 team. Wilt and Shaq are the only players remotely in the conversation to have played for 3 or more teams. Congrats to LeBron on being the only player to accomplish a feat only 2 other top 10 players put themselves in position to be eligible for.

Still a cool accomplishment though, regardless.

It is a cool accomplishment, but it means minimal in terms of arguments for who is the GOAT and who is not.

There are no great parameters for that. If you say rangz, it isn't MJ.

[MavsDirk41]

Dirk probably played with more allstars and talented players than most of his peers. His teams were contenders/psuedo contenders from the word go. He played for a competent organization that constantly surrounded him with elite talent.

Jokic doesn’t win a championship without Murray averaging like 20 and 10 throughout that playoff run

Jason Kidd was roughly 37 or 38 years old when the Mavs won the title. Shawn Marion was around 33 years old and was a journeyman at this point. Dallas gave Marion life again.

Tyson Chandler made one all-star team two YEARS after being a Mav and winning a title.

Peja Stojaković was 33 years old when he was a Mav. He retired after he won the title that season. He hadn't been an all-star since he was 26 years old.

Who is the elite talent that was surrounding Dirk? He had high IQ basketball minds around him that knew their role the year we won the title.

Dallas couldn’t attract elite talent and still can't.

What they had was depth. In the regular season not a single player on that Mavs roster played 35 minutes a game and in the playoffs only Dirk and Kidd played over 35 minutes.

Compare that to Heatles that year where Wade, Lebron and Bosh all played nearly 40 minutes or more with the next player getting the most minutes was Joel Anthony at just under 30 minutes.

In comparison, Jason Terry played the fourth most minutes on the Mavs (around 32) and he was their second leading scorer. Mind you came off the bench, I believe Deshawn Stevenson was their starter who was a good defender.

Chandler was DPOY, all nba third team and all nba defense the following year. He played the fifth most minutes in the playoffs and played under 30 minutes in the regular season for the Mavs splitting minutes with Haywood who was also a serviceable C.

Peja was a role playing playing under 18 minutes a game. His role was the knock down threes. Compare him to Bibby who was playing 20 minutes in the game who was absolutely worthless. Combine him w JJ also coming off the bench

Kidd was an allstar the year prior and as much as people talk about Dirk running through that gauntlet in the west offensively, Kidd was responsibly for neutralizing those teams best perimeter players, which he did a damn good job of which included playing a huge role in shutting down James.

To tie all that together u have an atg coach in Jim Carey.

So to say elite talent, may be a push but they were an elite team, top down, as any championship team has to be.

And Dallas has ALWAYS had elite talent. Dirk played with a loooong list off all stars elite role players and players who won other accolades along with two HOF coaches

Lmao when you said Dallas has always had elite talent…..you want me to give you the years they didnt…? Cause i will

[JayMKE]

idk why people are getting mad at Stockton for having the same opinion as 99% of other people. Even Laker fans would agree, it’s more special to win a championship as a lifer with one team that you’ve gone thru the trials and tribulations with. LeBron’s image would be a lot different had he stayed in Cleveland his whole career, at least his perception with fans.

[michaelm]

The talent on the Cavs from 2003-2010 is lightyears away from the kind of talent Stockton got during his career with the Jazz.

The best team and most successful Stockton was on was the one when Stockton was in his mid-30s. Stockton was in his 10th season when the Jazz finally got a serviceable shooting guard next to him.

LeBron joined the league 4 years younger than Stockton, has already played 20+ seasons, but he couldn't **** wait 2-3 years at the age of 22 for Cavs to be in a position to put good players around him? Come on.

To be fair unless LeBron deliberately tanked a season they weren’t going to get many if any top 10 draft picks, he is fairly definitely the GOAT floor raiser.

But just maybe assembling a cohesive team rather than fairly randomly stacking talented players together regardless of fit is the better approach. Complaining about players who made different choices than LeBron having advantages over him is what irks me in these discussions, particularly extending the argument to the 2011 Mavs, who didn’t have more than one superstar by any stretch of the imagination. It is to Dirk’s credit more than perhaps any other player in NBA history imo that a team with good fit constructed around him and led by him could win the 2011 title against the opposition they faced.

[michaelm]

idk why people are getting mad at Stockton for having the same opinion as 99% of other people. Even Laker fans would agree, it’s more special to win a championship as a lifer with one team that you’ve gone thru the trials and tribulations with. LeBron’s image would be a lot different had he stayed in Cleveland his whole career, at least his perception with fans.

I disagree, without any titles he would be a nearly man who couldn’t get it done at the highest level like Malone and Stockton themselves (more so Malone, Stockton although obviously excellent was never a franchise level player imo) and not have anywhere near his current position in the NBA pantheon.

[Iwasawitness]

The talent on the Cavs from 2003-2010 is lightyears away from the kind of talent Stockton got during his career with the Jazz.

The best team and most successful Stockton was on was the one when Stockton was in his mid-30s. Stockton was in his 10th season when the Jazz finally got a serviceable shooting guard next to him.

LeBron joined the league 4 years younger than Stockton, has already played 20+ seasons, but he couldn't **** wait 2-3 years at the age of 22 for Cavs to be in a position to put good players around him? Come on.

Huh???

[MrPainfulTruth]

Dirk Nowitzki and jokic did something LeBron could never do and that’s win a championship without any help.

LeBron could only win when he was on a super team.

Dirk and jokic won a championship with literally no all stars on their team. They earned their championships, LeBron didn’t. He took the easy way.

Green font?

Jokic's 'no help' was a teammate averaging 26 PPG and 7 APG lmfao the mental gymnastics here are wild.

When it comes to mental gymnastics, moving the goal posts and finding endless excuses for your guy, noone beats you bunch. You've been practising for over 20 years of excuses, after all.

[Rust_Cohle]

Lebron brought a knife to a fist fight while KD took out a gun...there's a difference.

Lebron started the superteam stuff but he never joined an established championship caliber team like KD did.....and we've seen the success KD has had starting his own superteams with the Nets and Suns...didn't work out too great.

You considered the Suns a super team? That's odd.

The Nets had a 12-3 record when KD, Kyrie, and Harden played together in Brooklyn. It's odd that you would mention that it didn't work out due to the cermistances. Covid was a thing but you act as if the three of them played a full season together...15 games!

KD to Golden is a problem for you as well. KD lead them to two championships and won the FMVP both times. If you fail to realize he was the guy on Golden State you might be part of the peohlem. The chances are low that Golden State wins those two titles without KD.

Oh, wait, according to what you said about the Suns, Nets, and KD in Golden State, it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

Chances are low that they win those titles without KD? What kind of ass backwards logic is this? They won 73 games the previous season. They went to the finals for two straight years. They only lost to Cleveland due to injuries and LeBron being LeBron. Now you want to sit here and act like their chances of winning again are low without KD? And you have the nerve to claim HE doesn't know what he's talking about?

2017 cavs probably beat the warriors without KD in fairness

[Black Jack]

Stockton is always saying some weird ****, he's definitely not someone whose opinion I respect.

[52-12-7]

Didn't Doctor J say the same thing? More and more legends are going to claim the same now that lebron is in the brinks of retirement.