Shams: Fox gets max extension.

[Mavrelous]

I have Fox as a very similar player to Ingram, flawed offensive oriented player, with a defined skillset, though Fox skillset is more valuable than Ingram IMO.
They may not be a good #1 option, even as 2nd option they are questionable, but they have become underrated due to the circumstances around them, they can be very useful players in the right context.

Fox has proven alot more than Ingram tbh.

When?

[zimpy27]

I have Fox as a very similar player to Ingram, flawed offensive oriented player, with a defined skillset, though Fox skillset is more valuable than Ingram IMO.
They may not be a good #1 option, even as 2nd option they are questionable, but they have become underrated due to the circumstances around them, they can be very useful players in the right context.

Fox has proven alot more than Ingram tbh.

When?

Yeah I agree that Fox and Ingram are on similar standing. I think both guys are on the brink of breaking out but never have. I'm not sure who I'd prefer but ok current deals I prefer Ingram.

[One_and_Done]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

[zimpy27]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

Sabonis was the best player on the team

[One_and_Done]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

Sabonis was the best player on the team

Disagree.

But even if he was thr 2nd best player, that's still more than Ingram has ever shown.

[Mavrelous]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

No need to hide behind vague accomplishments, just face the reality that he hasn't done anything that is more impressive than Ingram, they were a 48 wins in the worst year for the western conference in this century due to injuries and the Westbrook trade.
Pelicans had a better record in a tougher conference just a year later, only that record was enough for 8th seed only.
He also was the 2nd best player on that team.

[the_process]

The only way the Spurs don't hate this by next summer is if Harper busts or Castle regresses.

[Vae Victus]

Im more curious at what Fox's market would be like next offseason. Not that many teams will have cap space and the ones that do, are they gonna splash a max/near max deal for a player like Fox? Or even 30mil for someone like Austin Reaves? I personally just dont see it, if you got a bunch of cap space, you either sign a worthy max player, a solid value deal on a role player or up and coming prospect, or play the absorb a bad money deal in exchange for draft capital.

Players like Fox and Reaves are nice 3rd options but these days paying huge pay for 3rd options handcuff you badly.

[nykballa2k4]

He's not worth that much money? Is another reason really necessary?

They can afford to overpay him for a couple years while Wemby/Castle/Harper are cheap, but it'll limit their options to build around those four. And if you end up hitting on both Castle and Harper, Fox is going to be hard to move.

Honestly, disagree. Fox and Wemby are known commodities and even with a max extension, Wemby is going to be underpaid. When you put together Fox/Wemby and their contracts it amounts to positive value for the duration of the contract. Castle and Harper both clearly need to develop and one or both may wind up being a trade asset if a star-level(Banchero level) player becomes available.

Because you have an undervalued asset, it’s ok to intentionally take/make an overvalued asset because the net is still positive? You really think that counts as intelligent asset management?

The awesomeness in having a Jokic, SGA, Doncic, Giannis or Wemby is that they can’t be fairly compensated, true. But you’re supposed to use that advantage to create a roster with more talent and more cohesion than would otherwise be possible. You don’t piss part of the advantage away by paying a guy that’s probably around the 10th best PG in the league (depends on who counts as PGs, could be even lower) as if he’s the 5th best PG in the league.

The Spurs basically got to start from scratch when they drafted Wemby. They had some other talent (Vassell, Sochan, some JAGs), but nothing particularly notable for the long term. To make your first non-draft pick commitment a PG made sense at the time, but to immediately make Fox at best a neutral deal (if he really plays well, which he has done once before) and at worst an albatross (if he plays like last year) is likely not very wise. If this future commitment was a known thing at the time of the deal, San Antonio should have passed.

As long as the combination pushes the ceiling then it's a good investment. Fox and Wemby should be in the playoffs this year. Without Fox, if they take that step back, then you are pissing off Wemby. Fox, Wemby + star asset (using Banchero as a stand in here) would be a contender this year. If you don't go all-in with Fox, then you are not setting yourself up for a window starting this year.

[JHFVF07]

With this extension, what about Harper plus salary for AD? Fox/Castle/Vassell/AD/Wemby would be by far the beste defense on the league and a strong contender.

Dallas would get a young guard to pair with Flagg and still be a playoff team with their frontcourt depth.

Anoter/reverse option is by trade deadline you trade Fox for Gafford/PJ/Neji. Dallas sacrifice their depth to get a stronger start five. Spurs open space for their rookie keeping their word to Fox($$$) geting their starter PF, a good SF (maybe starter) and backup center. Dallas would be an interesting team KY/Fox/Flagg/AD/Lively.

[zimpy27]

With this extension, what about Harper plus salary for AD? Fox/Castle/Vassell/AD/Wemby would be by far the beste defense on the league and a strong contender.

Dallas would get a young guard to pair with Flagg and still be a playoff team with their frontcourt depth.

Anoter/reverse option is by trade deadline you trade Fox for Gafford/PJ/Neji. Dallas sacrifice their depth to get a stronger start five. Spurs open space for their rookie keeping their word to Fox($$$) geting their starter PF, a good SF (maybe starter) and backup center. Dallas would be an interesting team KY/Fox/Flagg/AD/Lively.

Spurs might make a midseason move this big. They'd be looking at how Castle, Fox, Harper work at the.guard rotation.

I think we know that Parker-Hill-Manu was a good example of this situation for the Spurs in the past. Eventually they chose to trade Hill for the draft picks that selected Kawhi, which was pick 15.

I could see Spurs doing same again next offseason with a Castle or Harper trade if this year doesn't work

[Daddy 801]

With this extension, what about Harper plus salary for AD? Fox/Castle/Vassell/AD/Wemby would be by far the beste defense on the league and a strong contender.

Dallas would get a young guard to pair with Flagg and still be a playoff team with their frontcourt depth.

Anoter/reverse option is by trade deadline you trade Fox for Gafford/PJ/Neji. Dallas sacrifice their depth to get a stronger start five. Spurs open space for their rookie keeping their word to Fox($$$) geting their starter PF, a good SF (maybe starter) and backup center. Dallas would be an interesting team KY/Fox/Flagg/AD/Lively.

Spurs might make a midseason move this big. They'd be looking at how Castle, Fox, Harper work at the.guard rotation.

I think we know that Parker-Hill-Manu was a good example of this situation for the Spurs in the past. Eventually they chose to trade Hill for the draft picks that selected Kawhi, which was pick 15.

I could see Spurs doing same again next offseason with a Castle or Harper trade if this year doesn't work

Unless Castle makes a large 3 point shooting percentage jump this next year I would assume it would be him on the move. These young guards can take 3-5 years to really develop into the player we think they should be by year 2. But with the Spurs cap situation, Harper now drafted, and the fact I think teams need to make decisions on young guys sooner than later so they don’t end up in a situation like GS is in with Kuminga….it just seems like Castle would be the player sent out to another team willing to take the risk it takes another year or two for Castle to really develop into the player he can become.

If Castle does take a big step forward with his three ball….well then the Spurs are going to be even that much better and I don’t see them making a move this year. And if Harper looks as good as most us think he will….Spurs are going to be real good real fast.

I don’t think Fox has been as good as many on here have touted but I think he is going to be an AllStar this next season if Wemby is healthy. With Wemby playing on the perimeter so often Fox should in theory be able to get to the rack at will. If he doesn’t have Allstar numbers this season I would be surprised.

[zimpy27]

With this extension, what about Harper plus salary for AD? Fox/Castle/Vassell/AD/Wemby would be by far the beste defense on the league and a strong contender.

Dallas would get a young guard to pair with Flagg and still be a playoff team with their frontcourt depth.

Anoter/reverse option is by trade deadline you trade Fox for Gafford/PJ/Neji. Dallas sacrifice their depth to get a stronger start five. Spurs open space for their rookie keeping their word to Fox($$$) geting their starter PF, a good SF (maybe starter) and backup center. Dallas would be an interesting team KY/Fox/Flagg/AD/Lively.

Spurs might make a midseason move this big. They'd be looking at how Castle, Fox, Harper work at the.guard rotation.

I think we know that Parker-Hill-Manu was a good example of this situation for the Spurs in the past. Eventually they chose to trade Hill for the draft picks that selected Kawhi, which was pick 15.

I could see Spurs doing same again next offseason with a Castle or Harper trade if this year doesn't work

Unless Castle makes a large 3 point shooting percentage jump this next year I would assume it would be him on the move. These young guards can take 3-5 years to really develop into the player we think they should be by year 2. But with the Spurs cap situation, Harper now drafted, and the fact I think teams need to make decisions on young guys sooner than later so they don’t end up in a situation like GS is in with Kuminga….it just seems like Castle would be the player sent out to another team willing to take the risk it takes another year or two for Castle to really develop into the player he can become.

If Castle does take a big step forward with his three ball….well then the Spurs are going to be even that much better and I don’t see them making a move this year. And if Harper looks as good as most us think he will….Spurs are going to be real good real fast.

I don’t think Fox has been as good as many on here have touted but I think he is going to be an AllStar this next season if Wemby is healthy. With Wemby playing on the perimeter so often Fox should in theory be able to get to the rack at will. If he doesn’t have Allstar numbers this season I would be surprised.

Castle seems most likely but he is a strong defender.

I guess it depends what offers hey get for who.

[Daddy 801]

Spurs might make a midseason move this big. They'd be looking at how Castle, Fox, Harper work at the.guard rotation.

I think we know that Parker-Hill-Manu was a good example of this situation for the Spurs in the past. Eventually they chose to trade Hill for the draft picks that selected Kawhi, which was pick 15.

I could see Spurs doing same again next offseason with a Castle or Harper trade if this year doesn't work

Unless Castle makes a large 3 point shooting percentage jump this next year I would assume it would be him on the move. These young guards can take 3-5 years to really develop into the player we think they should be by year 2. But with the Spurs cap situation, Harper now drafted, and the fact I think teams need to make decisions on young guys sooner than later so they don’t end up in a situation like GS is in with Kuminga….it just seems like Castle would be the player sent out to another team willing to take the risk it takes another year or two for Castle to really develop into the player he can become.

If Castle does take a big step forward with his three ball….well then the Spurs are going to be even that much better and I don’t see them making a move this year. And if Harper looks as good as most us think he will….Spurs are going to be real good real fast.

I don’t think Fox has been as good as many on here have touted but I think he is going to be an AllStar this next season if Wemby is healthy. With Wemby playing on the perimeter so often Fox should in theory be able to get to the rack at will. If he doesn’t have Allstar numbers this season I would be surprised.

Castle seems most likely but he is a strong defender.

I guess it depends what offers hey get for who.

Agreed. I just think Harper will be better than Castle. No way Castle would be rookie of the year in this upcoming year. Last years draft blows. I mean good for him for winning ROTY in his class….but I think we all know he isn’t a superstar in the making. Harper looks like a much more complete player with AllStar to SuperStar potential. Guess we’ll see.

[Jon1798]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

Pelicans won 49 games just two seasons ago, more than the 48 games the Kings won that season lol. That beam team is so overrated. I would take Ingram the player, mostly because of his size and versatility, but his injury history makes it hard to really pick him overall.

[BoogieTime]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

Pelicans won 49 games just two seasons ago, more than the 48 games the Kings won that season lol. That beam team is so overrated. I would take Ingram the player, mostly because of his size and versatility, but his injury history makes it hard to really pick him overall.

Sabonis would be the best player

By far the best Kings player, nba candidate, and the best of both

[Jon1798]

Fox was the best player on a team that was 3rd in the West, and looked like a legitimate playoff team, albeit one that was a little over their heads.

Ingram hasn't even proven he's a winning player yet.

Pelicans won 49 games just two seasons ago, more than the 48 games the Kings won that season lol. That beam team is so overrated. I would take Ingram the player, mostly because of his size and versatility, but his injury history makes it hard to really pick him overall.

Sabonis would be the best player

By far the best Kings player, nba candidate, and the best of both

While maybe not the “perfect” fit, I would have loved/hated seeing Siakim with Sabonis. I’m a big Sabonis fan. Just needs a long defender next to him that isn’t named Myles Turner.

[Sactowndog]

Yeah, that was the max extension he was eligible for at the time (3 years, 165 million)

If that was the strongest argument you could come up with, you might want to sit this one out.

The bolded isn't exactly a strong argument. Absence of evidence for one possibility is in no way evidence of its opposite.

It's not hard to believe that even an organization as poorly run as the Kings might balk at a max extension for a middling player at his position; it's certainly in the realm of probability. And I suspect that a few teams inquired about trading for Fox then balked upon learning of his extension demands.

My guy, there's two accounts of the situation: one by Shams Charania and Sam Amick, in which the Kings wanted to extend Fox for the max but he said he would not, and another by jbk1234 and SkyHook, random posters on RealGM with no sources. My evidence is the account of credible reporters, yours is mere speculation by a random poster on the internet. If you're worried about weak arguments, look in the mirror.

Amick is very plugged into the Kings. He started as a Kings beat reporter.

[daoneandonly]

With this extension, what about Harper plus salary for AD? Fox/Castle/Vassell/AD/Wemby would be by far the beste defense on the league and a strong contender.

Dallas would get a young guard to pair with Flagg and still be a playoff team with their frontcourt depth.

Anoter/reverse option is by trade deadline you trade Fox for Gafford/PJ/Neji. Dallas sacrifice their depth to get a stronger start five. Spurs open space for their rookie keeping their word to Fox($$$) geting their starter PF, a good SF (maybe starter) and backup center. Dallas would be an interesting team KY/Fox/Flagg/AD/Lively.

Dallas cant give up that much depth and pair Kyrie and Fox together. I'd do the Harper/AD swap in a heartbeat, even without seeing what Harper brings, but dont see SA doing it