Josh Giddey Thread 2.0

[nomorezorro]

shockingly, the ai gave you incorrect information

(you can't use a trade exception to absorb partial salary, gary payton isn't under contract with the warriors, and i dunno what terms you used for the s&t deals but i am skeptical that there is a plausible salary arrangement that would work with those guys)

[Infinity2152]

shockingly, the ai gave you incorrect information

(you can't use a trade exception to absorb partial salary, gary payton isn't under contract with the warriors, and i dunno what terms you used for the s&t deals but i am skeptical that there is a plausible salary arrangement that would work with those guys)

Thanks for the correction. here's a more updated one from a different AI, search terms are included. You can tell me what's missing.

Give a plausible trade scenario for Jonathan Kuminga and Josh Giddey, both receiving $25 mill contracts, utilizing available players and exceptions held by both teams, legal under the current collective bargaining agreement,

ChatGPT said:


Let’s construct a two-team, BYC-compliant sign‑and‑trade between the Warriors and Bulls using only players currently under contract, aside from Kuminga and Giddey:

Key BYC Recap
Both players sign new deals (~$25M/year).

Outgoing salary counts as only 50% of that due to BYC (~$12.5M).

Teams must include additional outgoing salary to properly match incoming value under trade rules.

Available Contracted Players
Golden State Warriors (under contract):
Moses Moody: 3-year, $39M extension; cap hit ~$13M+/yr
Wikipedia

De'Anthony Melton: 1-year, $12.8M contract
Wikipedia

Chicago Bulls (under contract, excluding Giddey):
From the 2025‑26 cap table:

Coby White: $12.89M
Hoopshype

Patrick Williams: $18M
Spotrac

Zach Collins: $18.08M
Spotrac

Proposed Trade Structure
From Golden State to Chicago:
Jonathan Kuminga (BYC outgoing = $12.5M)

Moses Moody (~$13M)

De’Anthony Melton (~$12.8M)

Total outgoing ≈ 12.5 + 13 + 12.8 = ~$38.3M

From Chicago to Golden State:
Josh Giddey (BYC outgoing = $12.5M)

Patrick Williams ($18M)

Zach Collins ($18.08M)

Total outgoing ≈ 12.5 + 18 + 18.08 = ~$48.6M

Evaluation & Adjustments
Right now, Chicago is sending more salary than Golden State (~$48.6M vs ~$38.3M). To balance under the 125% + $100K rule (applicable for teams above the cap), Golden State would need to include or match around an additional $10M in outgoing salary.

Since the user wants only current contracted players, one way to close the gap:

Warriors could also include a minimum-level bench player, but there aren’t clear current contracts with cap hit around $10M besides those already listed.

Alternatively, the Bulls could include less salary by removing a player like Zach Collins ($18M), reducing outgoing from Chicago to ~$30.6M, making the trade more balanced—$38.3M vs $30.6M is much closer.

Revised Balance Scenario
Golden State gives: Kuminga ($12.5M BYC) + Moody ($13M) + Melton ($12.8M) = $38.3M

Chicago gives: Giddey ($12.5M BYC) + Patrick Williams ($18M) = $30.5M

Still slightly off, but within the allowed +/- range under salary‑matching rules for over‑cap teams.

Summary Table
Team Player(s) Sent Total Outgoing Salary (incl. BYC)
Warriors → Bulls Kuminga (BYC $12.5M) + Moody + Melton ~$38.3M
Bulls → Warriors Giddey (BYC $12.5M) + Patrick Williams ~$30.5M

[nomorezorro]

de’anthony melton is also not under contract with the warriors

you can just look at spotrac or whatever before posting ai hallucinations of impossible trades

[Infinity2152]

de’anthony melton is also not under contract with the warriors

you can just look at spotrac or whatever before posting ai hallucinations of impossible trades

Would have thanked you for the suggestion without all the extra bs at the end

Now explain how you would do a proposed trade on Spotrac for two contracts that don't exist yet? Is the trade machine on Spotrac infallible? Doesn't it use the same type of calculations as an AI, with a different database?

You can generally get correct answers with AI, sometimes it takes time and refinement, re-asking the questions, and even correcting some data points. They draw from publicly available data.

For instance:
De anthony melton is not on the warriors

ChatGPT said:
Got it—De'Anthony Melton is no longer with the Warriors, having been traded in December 2024
Wikipedia
Basketball-Reference.com
.

Let’s rebuild the two-team, BYC-compliant sign-and-trade between the Warriors and Bulls, using only players currently under contract in 2025–26 (besides Kuminga and Giddey). Here’s a refined, fully legal scenario:

Warriors’ Contracted Players (2025–26, excluding Kuminga):
Moses Moody – ~$5.8M base salary; counting value is higher due to “poison pill” structure
Reddit
Wikipedia

Buddy Hield – ~$8.78M
Reddit
Diario AS

Gary Payton II – ~$9.13M
Reddit

Kyle Anderson – ~$8.78M
Diario AS
Reddit

Kevon Looney – ~$9M
Reddit

Brandin Podziemski – young player (~$3.7M option)
Fanspo.com
Diario AS

Bulls’ Contracted Players (2025–26, excluding Giddey):
Coby White – ~$12.9M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

Patrick Williams – ~$18M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

Zach Collins – ~$18.08M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

BYC Essentials Recap
Kuminga and Giddey both sign new $25M/year deals → outgoing credit is ~$12.5M each (50% due to BYC).

Each team's incoming is $25M → need to add ~ $12.5M real salary to match.

Must stay within NBA over-cap trade match rules (125% + $100K).

Proposed Trade Structure
Warriors send to Bulls:

Jonathan Kuminga (BYC = $12.5M)

Moses Moody (~$5.8M)

Buddy Hield (~$8.8M)

Total outgoing ≈ $27.1M, which balances Giddey incoming at $25M.

Bulls send to Warriors:

Josh Giddey (BYC = $12.5M)

Patrick Williams (~$18M)

Total outgoing ≈ $30.5M, matching Kuminga’s incoming $25M.

Why This Works
BYC is accounted for—each team’s outgoing includes reduced credit plus additional contracted salary.

Salary matching rules are satisfied—both sides are within the allowed +/- threshold.

Only current contracted players are used—no third team needed.

This is CBA-legal, balancing incoming/outgoing within trade parameters for over-cap teams.

Breakdown Table
Team Players Sent Outgoing Value (incl. BYC)
Warriors → Bulls Kuminga (12.5M) + Moody (5.8M) + Hield (8.8M) ~27.1M
Bulls → Warriors Giddey (12.5M) + Patrick Williams (18M) ~30.5M

Final Thoughts
This two-team sign-and-trade handles the BYC restrictions and keeps it clean by using only players currently under contract. Let me know if you'd like tweaks—maybe swapping Moody for someone else, adjusting for exact cap figures, or another balance alternative!

Then if you see an error, you could simply point it out without calling anything stupid or ridiculous. Additional input is welcome, corrections are welcome, your personal criticisms of the tools I'm using you can keep.

[ChettheJet]

Boy people devote too much of their likes to a marginal to this point Jonathon Kuminga.

While the Bulls may not want to go over $25M to bring back Giddey, they know what he's going to contribute right now and he could be better. What I can't see is them ever going past $20M for Kuminga because he has only shown flashes on a contending team, no consistency to earn full time status there and who knows what he'd do or how he'd behave on a young team without the veteran leadership he's been around at GS. All this FA talk of what teams think he's worth and what they'd give up to get him could be swirling around in his head and he could think he's going somewhere to be a mega star.

[sco]

de’anthony melton is also not under contract with the warriors

you can just look at spotrac or whatever before posting ai hallucinations of impossible trades

Would have thanked you for the suggestion without all the extra bs at the end

Now explain how you would do a proposed trade on Spotrac for two contracts that don't exist yet? Is the trade machine on Spotrac infallible? Doesn't it use the same type of calculations as an AI, with a different database?

You can generally get correct answers with AI, sometimes it takes time and refinement, re-asking the questions, and even correcting some data points. They draw from publicly available data.

For instance:
De anthony melton is not on the warriors

ChatGPT said:
Got it—De'Anthony Melton is no longer with the Warriors, having been traded in December 2024
Wikipedia
Basketball-Reference.com
.

Let’s rebuild the two-team, BYC-compliant sign-and-trade between the Warriors and Bulls, using only players currently under contract in 2025–26 (besides Kuminga and Giddey). Here’s a refined, fully legal scenario:

Warriors’ Contracted Players (2025–26, excluding Kuminga):
Moses Moody – ~$5.8M base salary; counting value is higher due to “poison pill” structure
Reddit
Wikipedia

Buddy Hield – ~$8.78M
Reddit
Diario AS

Gary Payton II – ~$9.13M
Reddit

Kyle Anderson – ~$8.78M
Diario AS
Reddit

Kevon Looney – ~$9M
Reddit

Brandin Podziemski – young player (~$3.7M option)
Fanspo.com
Diario AS

Bulls’ Contracted Players (2025–26, excluding Giddey):
Coby White – ~$12.9M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

Patrick Williams – ~$18M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

Zach Collins – ~$18.08M
Reddit
Fanspo.com

BYC Essentials Recap
Kuminga and Giddey both sign new $25M/year deals → outgoing credit is ~$12.5M each (50% due to BYC).

Each team's incoming is $25M → need to add ~ $12.5M real salary to match.

Must stay within NBA over-cap trade match rules (125% + $100K).

Proposed Trade Structure
Warriors send to Bulls:

Jonathan Kuminga (BYC = $12.5M)

Moses Moody (~$5.8M)

Buddy Hield (~$8.8M)

Total outgoing ≈ $27.1M, which balances Giddey incoming at $25M.

Bulls send to Warriors:

Josh Giddey (BYC = $12.5M)

Patrick Williams (~$18M)

Total outgoing ≈ $30.5M, matching Kuminga’s incoming $25M.

Why This Works
BYC is accounted for—each team’s outgoing includes reduced credit plus additional contracted salary.

Salary matching rules are satisfied—both sides are within the allowed +/- threshold.

Only current contracted players are used—no third team needed.

This is CBA-legal, balancing incoming/outgoing within trade parameters for over-cap teams.

Breakdown Table
Team Players Sent Outgoing Value (incl. BYC)
Warriors → Bulls Kuminga (12.5M) + Moody (5.8M) + Hield (8.8M) ~27.1M
Bulls → Warriors Giddey (12.5M) + Patrick Williams (18M) ~30.5M

Final Thoughts
This two-team sign-and-trade handles the BYC restrictions and keeps it clean by using only players currently under contract. Let me know if you'd like tweaks—maybe swapping Moody for someone else, adjusting for exact cap figures, or another balance alternative!

Then if you see an error, you could simply point it out without calling anything stupid or ridiculous. Additional input is welcome, corrections are welcome, your personal criticisms of the tools I'm using you can keep.

I get the math exercise, but why would we do this?

[cocktailswith_2short]

This whole issue is why we got him in the first place . He has intriguing traits but is the juice worth the squeeze ?

[Infinity2152]

Fellas! It was a thought exercise just to see if it could happen and what would it take to happen. Posed the question to a couple of AI's cause I was lazy and shared the results. Relax! Not trying to advocate getting Kuminga, literally said it would suck for us just to forestall all those comments, lmao!

[WesPeace]

If Bulls sign and trade Giddey for Kuminga they are officialy dumbest FO in NBA

[bullskokie]

If Bulls sign and trade Giddey for Kuminga they are officialy dumbest FO in NBA

Yes!

[kodo]

If Bulls sign and trade Giddey for Kuminga they are officialy dumbest FO in NBA

OMG I joked about this earlier in the thread...

[Indomitable]

If Bulls sign and trade Giddey for Kuminga they are officialy dumbest FO in NBA

OMG I joked about this earlier in the thread...

This whole scenario is just pointless.

[WesPeace]

If they sign him in 22-25M range, you keep him..

[coldfish]

If they sign him in 22-25M range, you keep him..

I think people are losing sight of how much the cap is going up. The full MLE is going to be $14.1m this year and is projected at $16.6m in 3 years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/exceptions

Those numbers are 50% more than the MLE. Even if you don't want him, he is tradeable at that level. Of course you keep him.

IMO, its a done deal that Giddey comes back on a deal. They are just horse trading over length of contract, non guarantees, team and player options, etc.

Personally, I would prefer a longer deal even at more money if they can get a team option on the last year. 4/100 with the last being a team option.

[MAQ]

Yeah, similar thoughts as coldfish...

I was okay with getting him at the price they wanted. Then I saw Fox get 60 mil a year. Im more than okay with paying Giddey half of that amount. That's going to be a valuable asset.

At this point, I'd rather see the deal get done sooner rather than later as there's no reason to create bad relationships or burnt bridges.

[sco]

Yeah, similar thoughts as coldfish...

I was okay with getting him at the price they wanted. Then I saw Fox get 60 mil a year. Im more than okay with paying Giddey half of that amount. That's going to be a valuable asset.

At this point, I'd rather see the deal get done sooner rather than later as there's no reason to create bad relationships or burnt bridges.

I think you make an interesting point. There are maybe 20 guys in the NBA who are elite and arguably someone who you can build a contenter around. Then there are the marginal allstars, and let's say there are another 20 of those guys...Fox and Zach fit in this group. IMO they are only worth MAX money to teams that already have someone in the first group, because they know it's highly unlikely they can find another guy in that group, and it's pretty competitive to get guys in that 2nd group, so that 2nd group who are good but not good enough to carry a contender (or likely a playoff team by themselves), get overpaid. Then there are the guys who are good enough to start, but aren't allstars (which could include guys on the rise who may make that 2nd group and guys who are over 32 who were in that 2nd group, but who have lost a step)...Giddey's in this group. The issue here is that there are many of these guys and it's harder to value them because there is high substitutability...the issue is that they are all flawed in one way or another (can't shoot 3's, can't defend, can't stay healthy), so their value IMO is highly variable due to their fit, availability of substitutes, needs of teams, cap space of teams, FA status. They can get anywhere from $20M to $35M, and the difference from one to another may be as much situational as it is about them. IMO Giddey's value is high enough to us where I'm sure we'd pay $30M if someone else put in a contract sheet, but IMO Giddey's value to other teams really doesn't go past $30M, and teams aren't going to waste the effort to test the Bulls' metal.

Interestingly, Kuminga is in a situation where GS doesn't value him very much, BUT they have been hoping that some other team does so that they can collect some value in S&T. I think they played their situation right...up to the point that they didn't take SAC's offer, which IMO was as good as it was going to get.

[Stratmaster]

That would certainly be better for the Bulls. But if I am him, asking 30, and they are wanting me to come down to 23 mil, I would insist on it. Or I would just take the QO before locking myself in at that number for 3 seasons.

I have no idea where Giddey's thought process is, everyone weighs risk / value differently. If I'm the Bulls, my hard lines would be:

1: 3-5 years in deal length
2: AAV 25M or under

Ideally, I'd try to do 5 year 125M with TO on the 5th year with a descending structure. If Giddey wants fewer years and the most money, then 4/100M (player option on 4th year) would be my "best" offer in that direction. Granted, my lines don't need to be the Bulls lines, but those would be my hard cut offs personally.

If I was Giddey, I'd ultimately take 4/100M (PO on 4th year) over the QO. I'm not sure how Giddey thinks, he may not want to do that, but if I was Giddey that's probably in my range. If the Bulls had slightly harder hard lines like 5/125M PO on 5th year, I'd still probably take that if I'm Giddey too.

My guess is that ultimately, the middle ground both sides will take is larger than a single point and have wider overlap, but it's possible that there is no overlap.

I agree with all of that. If the Bulls get up to 25m and offer a PO (whether 4 or 5 years) I think Giddey will take it. Personally, I wouldn't want the 5 year scenario if I were him. He has an upside that would make him significantly more than that. I understand he also has a risk factor. If I am him I roll those dice if the Bulls insist on control for 4 full seasons. But, like you, I have no idea what Giddey's risk tolerance is. The fact that he asked for 30m, hasn't budged to date, and has taken actions (not attending summer league as an example) and expressed frustration hints that if he doesn't get what he considers a reasonable deal he might be willing to take a risk. But it could also all be a negotiating tactic.

[Stratmaster]

If they sign him in 22-25M range, you keep him..

I think people are losing sight of how much the cap is going up. The full MLE is going to be $14.1m this year and is projected at $16.6m in 3 years.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cba/exceptions

Those numbers are 50% more than the MLE. Even if you don't want him, he is tradeable at that level. Of course you keep him.

IMO, its a done deal that Giddey comes back on a deal. They are just horse trading over length of contract, non guarantees, team and player options, etc.

Personally, I would prefer a longer deal even at more money if they can get a team option on the last year. 4/100 with the last being a team option.

I agree. That would be better for the Bulls. But at 25M, if I am Giddey, I would not allow the Bulls to have control of me for more than 3 seasons. 4/100 with a PO.

[Stratmaster]

So as of 17 hours ago Jake Fischer is reporting that GSW have expressed an interest in Giddey. Anyone know how reliable this Fischer guy has been?

Giddey has an Aussie friend he works out with who GSW have (I believe) control over and are expected to sign. They also have another Aussie player. Knowing this front office, the Bulls will end up with Kuminga and Giddey will head to Golden State. They will pay Kuminga 20 mil, and will lose Giddey due to stubborness over 4 or 5 million per. That would be an AKME move.

[Stratmaster]

If Bulls sign and trade Giddey for Kuminga they are officialy dumbest FO in NBA

Well.... your point? They already are the dumbest FO in the NBA.