Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[K9J]

Stockton's Western Conference titles dont have value neither, he lost +10 years against all the great players in his conference and only made the NBA Finals twice finally at 35 and 36 years old, only because the other players were more washed than him and Malone, and because he played in the weakest ERA of the last 50 years with no new generations, with only 2 players in the top 50 of all time who joined the NBA in almost 8 years and were stars in 1997 and 1998: Payton and Shaq(this with a suck team)

Stockton, Imagine how many rings LeBron could have had if he only had to face players of his own generation every year (Wade, Carmelo, Bosh, Howard, CP3, yao ming, Deron) in the playoffs and finals with 30-37 years old, plus only 2 new players from the top 50 of all time from a next generation instead of the 3-4 different all times generation than he face.. 1.starting with durant-curry / 2. follow for jokic-anteto / 3. and could follow with doncic-tatum-shai/ant and obviously each generation with 3-5 years old difference and each one with others +3,+5 great all time players joining the nba

[JujitsuFlip]

You know Lebron's first choice was him and Wade playing with Rose in Chicago right? Never forms a super if Boston doesn't, lol. Only at the first opportunity and in more than one place to do it.

Guarantee you that plan came together after July 31st, 2007. But hey, whatever ya gotta tell yourself.

Just a narrator note, to the readers, Rose wasn't drafted until June 26th, 2008.

Interesting...

Guarantee it didn't (in general). Its well known Wade and James had talked for a long time and James was out no matter what. They colluded. But you make whatever pretzel you have to make in your head to defend your hero.

Lol, way to miss the point. If Boston doesn't form a super team, James STILL does at his first opportunity anyway. Its not like that team was winning after one and done. They weren't the best team to beat. Maybe stop making excuses.

Lol LeBron signed an extension with the Cavs in 2006... So, your 'logic' is pretty flimsy.

You're right, Wade and LeBron were colluding with NCAA freshmen Rose to join up and beat the Celtics.

Lmfao, what a brain-dead idea.

[Johnny Bball]

Guarantee you that plan came together after July 31st, 2007. But hey, whatever ya gotta tell yourself.

Just a narrator note, to the readers, Rose wasn't drafted until June 26th, 2008.

Interesting...

Guarantee it didn't (in general). Its well known Wade and James had talked for a long time and James was out no matter what. They colluded. But you make whatever pretzel you have to make in your head to defend your hero.

Lol, way to miss the point. If Boston doesn't form a super team, James STILL does at his first opportunity anyway. Its not like that team was winning after one and done. They weren't the best team to beat. Maybe stop making excuses.

Lol LeBron signed an extension with the Cavs in 2006... So, your 'logic' is pretty flimsy.

You're right, Wade and LeBron were colluding with NCAA freshmen Rose to join up and beat the Celtics.

Lmfao, what a brain-dead idea.

Oh Lebron signed an extension instead of becoming an RFA and it ending the same? I for one am shocked. Who said it was with Rose when it started? Yep, they were both going to turn down generational wealth in 2005. You just make **** up because your comprehension sucks and you think you're not biased.

[The4thHorseman]

You know Lebron's first choice was him and Wade playing with Rose in Chicago right? Never forms a super if Boston doesn't, lol. Only at the first opportunity and in more than one place to do it.

Guarantee you that plan came together after July 31st, 2007. But hey, whatever ya gotta tell yourself.

Just a narrator note, to the readers, Rose wasn't drafted until June 26th, 2008.

Interesting...

Guarantee it didn't (in general). Its well known Wade and James had talked for a long time and James was out no matter what. They colluded. But you make whatever pretzel you have to make in your head to defend your hero.

Lol, way to miss the point. If Boston doesn't form a super team, James STILL does at his first opportunity anyway. Its not like that team was winning after one and done. They weren't the best team to beat. Maybe stop making excuses.[/quote] [/quote]

If true, then why was LeBron trying to get FA Bosh to agree to a sign and trade with Cleveland?

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

You really think James would've left Cleveland for Miami once Bosh committed to the Cavs??

[Johnny Bball]

Guarantee you that plan came together after July 31st, 2007. But hey, whatever ya gotta tell yourself.

Just a narrator note, to the readers, Rose wasn't drafted until June 26th, 2008.

Interesting...

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

You really think James would've left Cleveland for Miami once Bosh committed to the Cavs??

The article literally discusses collusion which superfan will not acknowledge was happening.

[Iwasawitness]

Oh jfc, so even when Durant is guarded it can’t count due to his height. You’re better than this man. It’s almost trump like where you ignore the facts and just stubbornly. With that logic no defender can guard Durant so he must be the goat.

But we will have to just take your blind fanboy word that Durant had the easiest job in finals history, despite getting less open shots than any other player during that finals, including LeBron. It’s even ridiculous to try and have this convo if you’re just going cover your ears and go lalalala despite every metric slapping you in the face.

Durant was god like in those finals, and not because he was being guarded by a JJ barea type. He was on fire and for the millionth had a historic level of offense. The cavs absolutely tried to gameplan for him. I would agree curry was game-planned for more but Durant ate LeBron alive when LeBron was guarding him, but hey if one of the “greatest defenders ever” can’t even limit Durant than maybe he is the goat.

Absolutely ridiculous

So you're counting situations where someone like Irving is guarding Durant from four feet as tight defense

THAT'S a trump like argument. But the thing is, you AREN'T better than this, this is the kind of straw grasping argument I expect from you.

Ah, so basically Durant has been unguarded his entire career. What a ridiculous criteria. If they had put Irving on Durant the whole series, I’d get it. You just can’t grasp the concept that Durant was guarded, and yes tightly. Switch yes and mismatches happen all the time, no one is immune to that. Durant just had an all time feels finals in spite of being guarded tightly.

Not the point I was making. The point I'm making is that your argument lacks a LOT of context and doesn't actually paint the full picture. You're claiming to provide a lot of stats to back up what you're saying (of which I'm convinced isn't even correct by the way because he had a hell of a lot more open looks than what your data states). What actually happened says otherwise. You're an adult, right? You're capable of critical thought, right? Watch the series and you tell me with a straight face that the majority of his shots were tightly guarded. Reality paints a different picture.

[MavsDirk41]

Well maybe seeing a player win mutiple championships with the team that drafted them seems more special and genuine than a guy choosing his teammates. My opinion, but like you said his choice. But dont call it stupid if people disagree with you.

Wanting to see something happen as a fan and going about these crusades to diminish what they accomplish if they leave are not the same thing. I'm not calling anyone stupid simply because they disagree with me. What's stupid is acting like every nba player needs to follow certain guidelines or else their accomplishments should just be torn down and dismissed. People will say 'o he didn't wait long enough to leave' by using his age when he left knowing full well that he came into the league at 18. The ultimate goal is always to diminish LeBron and what he did on the court. That's the real purpose of all these 'he didn't do it organically enough yada yada' criticisms that so many people love to lob at him.

Lol he kind of earned some of his criticism with his not 1, not 2, not 3 cause this is gonna be easy comments at his pepper rally, his mocking of Dirk in the 11 finals, and his “I want my damn respect” comment after the bubble championship. The dude has diarrhea of the mouth. Also, Jordan, Kobe, Durant, and other players take some abuse on here as well so he isnt the only one.

[The4thHorseman]

https://www.espn.com/nba/news/story?id=5357607

You really think James would've left Cleveland for Miami once Bosh committed to the Cavs??

The article literally discusses collusion which superfan will not acknowledge was happening.

It discusses and provides information which is the exact opposite of what you claimed.

[NbaAllDay]

It always amazes me how often some of these people pick apart Lebrons accomplishments yet never apply to same level of attention or critique to other players.

Is this a joke? Kobe had 3 championships and people still held it against him because he won with Shaq. People actually try to poke holes at Michael F'n Jordan's resume. People are always picking apart Kevin Durant. Even lesser stars like Melo and Westbrook had to deal with the nitpicking.

LeBron is nothing special in this regard.

People really trying to devalue stocktons opinion because it disagrees with the narrative they’ve built in their head

The hilarious thing is I am sure John isn't the only former or current player who thinks this.

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

[MavsDirk41]

Stockton's Western Conference titles dont have value neither, he lost +10 years against all the great players in his conference and only made the NBA Finals twice finally at 35 and 36 years old, only because the other players were more washed than him and Malone, and because he played in the weakest ERA of the last 50 years with no new generations, with only 2 players in the top 50 of all time who joined the NBA in almost 8 years and were stars in 1997 and 1998: Payton and Shaq(this with a suck team)

Stockton, Imagine how many rings LeBron could have had if he only had to face players of his own generation every year (Wade, Carmelo, Bosh, Howard, CP3, yao ming, Deron) in the playoffs and finals with 30-37 years old, plus only 2 new players from the top 50 of all time from a next generation instead of the 3-4 different all times generation than he face.. 1.starting with durant-curry / 2. follow for jokic-anteto / 3. and could follow with doncic-tatum-shai/ant and obviously each generation with 3-5 years old difference and each one with others +3,+5 great all time players joining the nba

Lmao i love comments like this, have you watched the last 50 years to make your determination about how weak the west was or is this your opinion? Also, aside from OKC last year lets look at the west:

Denver made a playoff run cause Jokic is that great. Thats the only reason.
Minnesota - im waiting for Edwards to take over the league still, i think he is a little overrated. Randle is ok. Gobert is ok. Conley is old.
Memphis- did nothing
Houston - now with Durant they may do something but a team with Jalen Green and Jabari Smith as your core scares nobody.
Lakers - yawn
Clippers - yawn
GS - Curry got hurt and Butler is looking older

What did i miss? Was this a strong west last year?

[JujitsuFlip]

Guarantee it didn't (in general). Its well known Wade and James had talked for a long time and James was out no matter what. They colluded. But you make whatever pretzel you have to make in your head to defend your hero.

Lol, way to miss the point. If Boston doesn't form a super team, James STILL does at his first opportunity anyway. Its not like that team was winning after one and done. They weren't the best team to beat. Maybe stop making excuses.

Lol LeBron signed an extension with the Cavs in 2006... So, your 'logic' is pretty flimsy.

You're right, Wade and LeBron were colluding with NCAA freshmen Rose to join up and beat the Celtics.

Lmfao, what a brain-dead idea.

Oh Lebron signed an extension instead of becoming an RFA and it ending the same? I for one am shocked. Who said it was with Rose when it started? Yep, they were both going to turn down generational wealth in 2005. You just make **** up because your comprehension sucks and you think you're not biased.

Some guy with the username of Johnny Bball said it, 6 hours ago lmfaoooooo

[Johnny Bball]

Lol LeBron signed an extension with the Cavs in 2006... So, your 'logic' is pretty flimsy.

You're right, Wade and LeBron were colluding with NCAA freshmen Rose to join up and beat the Celtics.

Lmfao, what a brain-dead idea.

Oh Lebron signed an extension instead of becoming an RFA and it ending the same? I for one am shocked. Who said it was with Rose when it started? Yep, they were both going to turn down generational wealth in 2005. You just make **** up because your comprehension sucks and you think you're not biased.

Some guy with the username of Johnny Bball said it, 6 hours ago lmfaoooooo

You really aren't comprehending anything. When they first started talking and colluding it was Wade and James. It was always about those two. Whether the third player was Bosh or Rose ended up not mattering much. James first choice was Chicago and Rose, Wade obviously was selling him on the Heat, but the first team they discussed was the one with cap space, until Miami later made cap space mid season, and very likely at Wade's urging. Comprehend now superfan? Or is your very literate self going to need it spelled out again?

Argue all you want, he colluded and it it was at his first UFA. Deal with it.

Edit; All three signed 3 year deals (3 plus 1) when offered 5 and more money. And that was in 2006, not 2005. Should I type 10 posts saying how horribly you're wrong or should I just assume that I know what you meant?

Still can't admit collusion.

[slick_watts]

famously obstinate former player who stuck with a single small market franchise for two decades has pointedly biased thoughts on lebron james' nba career. shocking! deserving of 19 pages of debate.

[Cavsfansince84]

Lol he kind of earned some of his criticism with his not 1, not 2, not 3 cause this is gonna be easy comments at his pepper rally, his mocking of Dirk in the 11 finals, and his “I want my damn respect” comment after the bubble championship. The dude has diarrhea of the mouth. Also, Jordan, Kobe, Durant, and other players take some abuse on here as well so he isnt the only one.

Come on dude, we are talking about sports. Do I really need to go through all the crazy stuff pro athletes have said over the last 50 years going back to Ali? Honestly, you guys act like pro sports is the boy scouts of America or something whenever it suits your arguments to do that. Also, people always forget that the not 1, not 2 was a scripted thing. The guy who asked the question worked for the Heat and said 'you 3 kings didn't come here just to win 1 ring, did you' or something like that so of course LeBron answered by saying what he did. The fact that you are even bringing that answer up all these years later speaks volumes to me about how desperate some people are to justify their 15 year long hate fests of this man. Anyhow, you keep on hating, its the same old story with you and 5-6 others on here.

[JujitsuFlip]

Oh Lebron signed an extension instead of becoming an RFA and it ending the same? I for one am shocked. Who said it was with Rose when it started? Yep, they were both going to turn down generational wealth in 2005. You just make **** up because your comprehension sucks and you think you're not biased.

Some guy with the username of Johnny Bball said it, 6 hours ago lmfaoooooo

You really aren't comprehending anything. When they first started talking and colluding it was Wade and James. It was always about those two. Whether the third player was Bosh or Rose ended up not mattering much. James first choice was Chicago and Rose, Wade obviously was selling him on the Heat, but the first team they discussed was the one with cap space, until Miami later made cap space mid season, and very likely at Wade's urging. Comprehend now superfan? Or is your very literate self going to need it spelled out again?

Argue all you want, he colluded and it it was at his first UFA. Deal with it.

Edit; All three signed 3 year deals (3 plus 1) when offered 5 and more money. And that was in 2006, not 2005. Should I type 10 posts saying how horribly you're wrong or should I just assume that I know what you meant?

I said 2006, lmaoooo wow, can't even remeber who said what, scroll up in the thread man, it's right there or should i do another screenshot for ya?

[Yank3525]

It always amazes me how often some of these people pick apart Lebrons accomplishments yet never apply to same level of attention or critique to other players.

Is this a joke? Kobe had 3 championships and people still held it against him because he won with Shaq. People actually try to poke holes at Michael F'n Jordan's resume. People are always picking apart Kevin Durant. Even lesser stars like Melo and Westbrook had to deal with the nitpicking.

LeBron is nothing special in this regard.

People really trying to devalue stocktons opinion because it disagrees with the narrative they’ve built in their head

The hilarious thing is I am sure John isn't the only former or current player who thinks this.

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

They do.

People to this day still ding Kobe for winning three rings with Shaq. As for MJ, there has been a whole media campaign the last few yearrs trying to pick apart his career.

[MavsDirk41]

Lol he kind of earned some of his criticism with his not 1, not 2, not 3 cause this is gonna be easy comments at his pepper rally, his mocking of Dirk in the 11 finals, and his “I want my damn respect” comment after the bubble championship. The dude has diarrhea of the mouth. Also, Jordan, Kobe, Durant, and other players take some abuse on here as well so he isnt the only one.

Come on dude, we are talking about sports. Do I really need to go through all the crazy stuff pro athletes have said over the last 50 years going back to Ali? Honestly, you guys act like pro sports is the boy scouts of America or something whenever it suits your arguments to do that. Also, people always forget that the not 1, not 2 was a scripted thing. The guy who asked the question worked for the Heat and said 'you 3 kings didn't come here just to win 1 ring, did you' or something like that so of course LeBron answered by saying what he did. The fact that you are even bringing that answer up all these years later speaks volumes to me about how desperate some people are to justify their 15 year long hate fests of this man. Anyhow, you keep on hating, its the same old story with you and 5-6 others on here.

I dont like him and you keep on taking up for him….sounds good to me

[MavsDirk41]

Is this a joke? Kobe had 3 championships and people still held it against him because he won with Shaq. People actually try to poke holes at Michael F'n Jordan's resume. People are always picking apart Kevin Durant. Even lesser stars like Melo and Westbrook had to deal with the nitpicking.

LeBron is nothing special in this regard.



The hilarious thing is I am sure John isn't the only former or current player who thinks this.

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

They do.

People to this day still ding Kobe for winning three rings with Shaq. As for MJ, there has been a whole media campaign the last few yearrs trying to pick apart his career.

Remember the Jordan didnt deserve his DPOY whine fest a year ago lol? Jordan won that in what? 87?

[Rust_Cohle]

So you're counting situations where someone like Irving is guarding Durant from four feet as tight defense

THAT'S a trump like argument. But the thing is, you AREN'T better than this, this is the kind of straw grasping argument I expect from you.

Ah, so basically Durant has been unguarded his entire career. What a ridiculous criteria. If they had put Irving on Durant the whole series, I’d get it. You just can’t grasp the concept that Durant was guarded, and yes tightly. Switch yes and mismatches happen all the time, no one is immune to that. Durant just had an all time feels finals in spite of being guarded tightly.

Not the point I was making. The point I'm making is that your argument lacks a LOT of context and doesn't actually paint the full picture. You're claiming to provide a lot of stats to back up what you're saying (of which I'm convinced isn't even correct by the way because he had a hell of a lot more open looks than what your data states). What actually happened says otherwise. You're an adult, right? You're capable of critical thought, right? Watch the series and you tell me with a straight face that the majority of his shots were tightly guarded. Reality paints a different picture.

I did, I literally double checked Durant highlights and while yes he had open cuts to the rim he also had plenty of shots with defenders draped all over him. This is Kevin freakin Durant. Go watch the games, YouTube has Durant only possessions. All my stats I highlighted came from nba.com. None of that chat gpt crap.

Personal insults aren’t going to help you, I agree context always matters, I double checked the highlights to give you the benefit of the doubt. He was always accounted for and guarded by Lebron for many possessions. He literally just had one of the greatest finals ever in history, and it wasn’t due to being left wide open all the time. Or even half the time. That’s why downgrading Durant hypothetically to someone half or a third as good and that series goes a very different way. Had Warriors not replaced Durant with anyone for 2017 I think the cavs win that series.

They can handle curry going super nova, but Durant shooting 70% TS is Jokic levels of efficient. As much grief and as lame as it was for Durant to go to GS, the one thing I will give him credit for is that he was comfortably the best player for them in both 2017 and 2018. I’d argue no individual player has been as dominant against Lebron in regards to their own numbers as Durant.

[brackdan70]

Yeah Stocktons championships are much more meaningful.