Scottie isn't going to be a #1 option superstar in this league

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I think people are so confused by Scottie, and the group of players we have, because they are so focused on the current style of play.

There is so many interesting combinations here for a futuristic style, on both sides of the ball.

Scottie/Ingram/CMB might be my favourite trio. The traditional three point doesn't bother me one bit, even with Jakob in there.

For as much as they like to pass, I don't think there will be "over passing" between Scottie and CMB.

If we aren't paying BI 47M going forward. He's basically a two year rental.

Bi is owed 38 40 41, Barnes will touch 47 for one yr of his deal, the last yr, 5yrs from now.
No need to embellish

BI's got two and a player option. Rich Paul's his agent. It writes itself imo.

[Thaddy]

If we aren't paying BI 47M going forward. He's basically a two year rental.

Bi is owed 38 40 41, Barnes will touch 47 for one yr of his deal, the last yr, 5yrs from now.
No need to embellish

BI's got two and a player option. Rich Paul's his agent. It writes itself imo.

He's also a poor man's Durant. It's a worthy risk to take. If we can load manage him we will have him fresh for the play in. It'll also give us more of a developmental curve. We will have CMB, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, and Walter who can slide in (due to Barnes versatility).

I would say this was well thought out and the numbers have been proven to be meaningless by several posters. I would also gauge the numbers based on league wide reports of other new deals. It's not the right way to do it, you need to look at it against the overall percentage.

That being said I don't expect Ingram to be someone who gets a finals MVP and lead us into contention. I think it's a good short range move to go from lottery team to pretender. We need to make that leap and establish a winning culture again. Then look at how we can make another jump.

The ultimate hope should be that CMB and Dick can develop into all star talents which can then be paired with Scottie. This isn't a terrible plan if Dick and CMB show they can be top 5 from their strong draft classes. It would give us 3 players in Barnes, CMB, and Dick who can be the stars and we can deal our other assets like Ingram, IQ, and RJ for pieces to put around them.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

Bi is owed 38 40 41, Barnes will touch 47 for one yr of his deal, the last yr, 5yrs from now.
No need to embellish

BI's got two and a player option. Rich Paul's his agent. It writes itself imo.

He's also a poor man's Durant. It's a worthy risk to take. If we can load manage him we will have him fresh for the play in. It'll also give us more of a developmental curve. We will have CMB, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, and Walter who can slide in (due to Barnes versatility).

I would say this was well thought out and the numbers have been proven to be meaningless by several posters. I would also gauge the numbers based on league wide reports of other new deals. It's not the right way to do it, you need to look at it against the overall percentage.

That being said I don't expect Ingram to be someone who gets a finals MVP and lead us into contention. I think it's a good short range move to go from lottery team to pretender. We need to make that leap and establish a winning culture again. Then look at how we can make another jump.

The ultimate hope should be that CMB and Dick can develop into all star talents which can then be paired with Scottie. This isn't a terrible plan if Dick and CMB show they can be top 5 from their strong draft classes. It would give us 3 players in Barnes, CMB, and Dick who can be the stars and we can deal our other assets like Ingram, IQ, and RJ for pieces to put around them.

Rich man's Lou Williams. With Rich Paul as an agent.

If you remember Rich Paul before Masai, it can get ugly.

[Thaddy]

BI's got two and a player option. Rich Paul's his agent. It writes itself imo.

He's also a poor man's Durant. It's a worthy risk to take. If we can load manage him we will have him fresh for the play in. It'll also give us more of a developmental curve. We will have CMB, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, and Walter who can slide in (due to Barnes versatility).

I would say this was well thought out and the numbers have been proven to be meaningless by several posters. I would also gauge the numbers based on league wide reports of other new deals. It's not the right way to do it, you need to look at it against the overall percentage.

That being said I don't expect Ingram to be someone who gets a finals MVP and lead us into contention. I think it's a good short range move to go from lottery team to pretender. We need to make that leap and establish a winning culture again. Then look at how we can make another jump.

The ultimate hope should be that CMB and Dick can develop into all star talents which can then be paired with Scottie. This isn't a terrible plan if Dick and CMB show they can be top 5 from their strong draft classes. It would give us 3 players in Barnes, CMB, and Dick who can be the stars and we can deal our other assets like Ingram, IQ, and RJ for pieces to put around them.

Rich man's Lou Williams. With Rich Paul as an agent.

If you remember Rich Paul before Masai, it can get ugly.

A bigger rich man's Lou Will is worth the money and what we gave up.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

He's also a poor man's Durant. It's a worthy risk to take. If we can load manage him we will have him fresh for the play in. It'll also give us more of a developmental curve. We will have CMB, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, and Walter who can slide in (due to Barnes versatility).

I would say this was well thought out and the numbers have been proven to be meaningless by several posters. I would also gauge the numbers based on league wide reports of other new deals. It's not the right way to do it, you need to look at it against the overall percentage.

That being said I don't expect Ingram to be someone who gets a finals MVP and lead us into contention. I think it's a good short range move to go from lottery team to pretender. We need to make that leap and establish a winning culture again. Then look at how we can make another jump.

The ultimate hope should be that CMB and Dick can develop into all star talents which can then be paired with Scottie. This isn't a terrible plan if Dick and CMB show they can be top 5 from their strong draft classes. It would give us 3 players in Barnes, CMB, and Dick who can be the stars and we can deal our other assets like Ingram, IQ, and RJ for pieces to put around them.

Rich man's Lou Williams. With Rich Paul as an agent.

If you remember Rich Paul before Masai, it can get ugly.

A bigger rich man's Lou Will is worth the money and what we gave up.

Everybody's going to love the offense when he plays. But if the future ask is 47M+, like he wanted. We're going to ultimately be sellers.

[DreamTeam09]

He's also a poor man's Durant. It's a worthy risk to take. If we can load manage him we will have him fresh for the play in. It'll also give us more of a developmental curve. We will have CMB, Mogbo, Agbaji, Dick, and Walter who can slide in (due to Barnes versatility).

I would say this was well thought out and the numbers have been proven to be meaningless by several posters. I would also gauge the numbers based on league wide reports of other new deals. It's not the right way to do it, you need to look at it against the overall percentage.

That being said I don't expect Ingram to be someone who gets a finals MVP and lead us into contention. I think it's a good short range move to go from lottery team to pretender. We need to make that leap and establish a winning culture again. Then look at how we can make another jump.

The ultimate hope should be that CMB and Dick can develop into all star talents which can then be paired with Scottie. This isn't a terrible plan if Dick and CMB show they can be top 5 from their strong draft classes. It would give us 3 players in Barnes, CMB, and Dick who can be the stars and we can deal our other assets like Ingram, IQ, and RJ for pieces to put around them.

Rich man's Lou Williams. With Rich Paul as an agent.

If you remember Rich Paul before Masai, it can get ugly.

A bigger rich man's Lou Will is worth the money and what we gave up.

His floor is already being a way better passer than Lou will ever was, that's not a good comparable, clearly homeboy is down, which is his prerogative, when we are good I just hope everyone admits it & doesn't move the goal post in some silly manner

[DreamTeam09]

Watch on YouTube

- Took too many pull up 3s (I think that's a good thing in a transition year, should drop back down with a healthy Bi n Quickly)
- Wasn't really good as the PnR ball handler (Again, more reps in a lost year)
- Exceptional defender, future all NBA defender,
- able to sag off and get back out to the perimeter
-Great ball denier while having a high usg
-Bi will make Scottie better because now teams gotta put their best defender on BI
-Scottie will blow by bigs and bully smaller players
-Gotta keep his dribble alive more because he's deadly going down hill, exceptional driver
-teams can't help off of BI at the nail, can't help off of quickly, RJ will have to hit 3s continue to cut & finish
-Good repport with Jakob
.
+ Many many more

[bartron_44]

The question isnt BI’s offense. Its can they get him to play the kind of defense we saw in SL from the backups. Same question I have about Quickley…and to a lesser extent, Barrett. If they can, they will be worth the price. If they can’t, they are just sever overpays they will need to get rid of. And considering they traded OG and Siakam for those guys, I really hope at least one or two work out.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

i think thats why they got Ingram.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

i think thats why they got Ingram.

Superstar!

[dballislife]

scottie has all nba defense, he can also drop 6 dimes maybe even 7 in prime, can grab 8 boards too, and potentially avg around that rare 1.5 1.5 stocks

barnes with all of this going on, he can give you a efficient 18-20 at ages 25-32 and be a superstar

he just needs a great franchise to put the correct help around him, and so far we doing a good job, hes surrounded by a lot of young scoring and shooting

[Los_29]

scottie has all nba defense, he can also drop 6 dimes maybe even 7 in prime, can grab 8 boards too, and potentially avg around that rare 1.5 1.5 stocks

barnes with all of this going on, he can give you a efficient 18-20 at ages 25-32 and be a superstar

he just needs a great franchise to put the correct help around him, and so far we doing a good job, hes surrounded by a lot of young scoring and shooting

He’s never been an efficient scorer in his career. That’s the one concern. He wasn’t even efficient when his role was reduced.

I’m optimistic that with BI and IQ healthy, Scottie will be more efficient in a reduced role. Combine that with his defense and that’s a great player.

[dballislife]

scottie has all nba defense, he can also drop 6 dimes maybe even 7 in prime, can grab 8 boards too, and potentially avg around that rare 1.5 1.5 stocks

barnes with all of this going on, he can give you a efficient 18-20 at ages 25-32 and be a superstar

he just needs a great franchise to put the correct help around him, and so far we doing a good job, hes surrounded by a lot of young scoring and shooting

He’s never been an efficient scorer in his career. That’s the one concern. He wasn’t even efficient when his role was reduced.

I’m optimistic that with BI and IQ healthy, Scottie will be more efficient in a reduced role. Combine that with his defense and that’s a great player.

at his developing 20-24 years in league though, so yes his efficiency hasn't been great.....we not asking for a efficient 23-25, but a efficient 18-20 in his prime years is totally possible

[tsherkin]

at his developing 20-24 years in league though, so yes his efficiency hasn't been great.....we not asking for a efficient 23-25, but a efficient 18-20 in his prime years is totally possible

It is, however, quite unlikely unless something very significant about him changes. Meantime, "hasn't been great" is a little bit of a euphemism. In two of his seasons, he's been DISASTROUSLY inefficient, not "hasn't been great." One at reduced volume, one at volume. The main hope at this point is that he can become a league-average-efficiency scorer, so he could potentially become a reasonable second or third option. And that's likely to be a long wait, given what skills and tools he has and hasn't shown. How long do we want to wait to see if he can turn himself into Demar on offense, statistically speaking? Or do we want to pivot now, and start working on ways to make him viable in his role at the 4, functioning as a connecting passer and a strong defensive presence, so we can start getting value out of him earlier, you know what I mean?

[YogurtProducer]

Tailoring his shot diet doesn’t breed much optimism in my mind. We’re having the same talks about RJ. So now instead of having guys who create advantages for other players we’re talking about having to put players in roles to help themselves instead of the team as a whole.

I get we have to work with what we’ve got but it’s not overly confidence inspiring. If we’re paying guys $25m+ we need improvement, not mitigation.

I mean, yeah, why wouldn't we want to put guys in positions for them to succeed rather than in a role above their capabilities?

Getting Ingram, as well IQ back from injury, should in turn help RJ and Barnes both slot in more naturally on a pecking order. Ingram and IQ are by far our best 2 creators on the team, and that should mean the "harder" possessions get soaked up by them and hopefully it means efficiency gains for RJ + Barnes.

That is not "mitigation" it is just better utilization.

How is putting Barnes in the corner better for us? He’s being put there by default because he’s terrible ATB. So in an effort to bump up Barnes’ efficiency we have to put him in the corner where he is also a below average 3pt shooter. How does that help the rest of the team? Trying to boost Barnes efficiency doesn’t help the rest of the team. It’s pretty clear that reducing the offensive roles of guys like Barnes or Barrett is not conducive to helping a team overall. They aren’t good off-ball players and as such that creates other down stream issues for everyone due to lack of spacing. If the idea is “boost their efficiency to up their trade value” then it makes sense but if the idea is “give poor off ball players more off ball possessions” then that’s not really helping the team.

If Barnes gets an uptick in 3pt% because he’s relegated to the corner that’s not overly helpful if teams are still cheating off of him or even when he makes the shot it’s still a below average offensive outcome for the shot type.

Barnes isn’t going to be relegated to the corner, but even for arguments sake, he is a career 35% corner shooter which would be a nice uptick over his sub 30% from ATB.

But that isn’t what’s going to happen. Hes going to just not be the one taking some bail out shots, initiating offence, etc. which overall will have massive gains to our offensive efficiency.

I don’t know how you possibly think that replacing Barnes and RJs offensive output with guys more suited to on-ball creative roles ISNT going to help our team as a whole. Barnes/RJ as a 1/2 were giving us like 55TS%. Ingram/Quickley in those same roles hopefully get us 58-60TS% from those same possessions, and you hope RJ/Barnes as a 3/4 option offensively gives you better offensive output than the guys we had as a 3/4 last year (Dick, Shead, Olynyk, etc.)

It’s prettt clear how rearranging the pecking order will help everyone.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

So, let's say.. BI 21-23ppg, IQ 14-21ppg, RJ 19-21ppg. That leaves Scottie the "facilitator" Barnes at 14-19ppg

[DreamTeam09]

So, let's say.. BI 21-23ppg, IQ 14-21ppg, RJ 19-21ppg. That leaves Scottie the "facilitator" Barnes at 14-19ppg

4 20pt scorers is only 80pts, there's still another 30-35-40 pts to get to. You guys a worrying about things that don't need to be worried about,

I get it tho, it's August. I hope everyone is enjoying the summer.

If the best defender is covering BI, you guys are anticipating Barnes production to drop? That makes sense to y'all?

[DreamTeam09]

Watch on YouTube

.
Relevant notes

-Orbital fracture which would affect depth perception
-Ankle injury which would limit burst
-Wrist contusion, which would affect shooting mechanics

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

So, let's say.. BI 21-23ppg, IQ 14-21ppg, RJ 19-21ppg. That leaves Scottie the "facilitator" Barnes at 14-19ppg

4 20pt scorers is only 80pts, there's still another 30-35-40 pts to get to. You guys a worrying about things that don't need to be worried about,

I get it tho, it's August. I hope everyone is enjoying the summer.

If the best defender is covering BI, you guys are anticipating Barnes production to drop? That makes sense to y'all?

Just one ball. Not enough touches.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

So, let's say.. BI 21-23ppg, IQ 14-21ppg, RJ 19-21ppg. That leaves Scottie the "facilitator" Barnes at 14-19ppg

4 20pt scorers is only 80pts, there's still another 30-35-40 pts to get to. You guys a worrying about things that don't need to be worried about,

I get it tho, it's August. I hope everyone is enjoying the summer.

If the best defender is covering BI, you guys are anticipating Barnes production to drop? That makes sense to y'all?

when you're holding opponents to league best 79 points, its all good.