Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[Rust_Cohle]

It always amazes me how often some of these people pick apart Lebrons accomplishments yet never apply to same level of attention or critique to other players.

Is this a joke? Kobe had 3 championships and people still held it against him because he won with Shaq. People actually try to poke holes at Michael F'n Jordan's resume. People are always picking apart Kevin Durant. Even lesser stars like Melo and Westbrook had to deal with the nitpicking.

LeBron is nothing special in this regard.

People really trying to devalue stocktons opinion because it disagrees with the narrative they’ve built in their head

The hilarious thing is I am sure John isn't the only former or current player who thinks this.

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

Kobe gets annihilated constantly and always left out of top 10 on many lists despite tons of players having him in the goat convo. He’s 10-11 all time for me, but of the big 3 I can understand why Kobe fans have the most grievances.

As for MJ, what makes his career appear so mythical is there is very little to truly criticize. Check out tik tok and there are thousands of topics based on bashing MJ with “we done with the 90’s, MJ can’t go left, weak competition/plumbers, fake stats, quit twice, gambler, 1-9 without Pippen, never beat bird, and blah blah blah.

Scranton Bulls is one of the most legendary pro lebron trolls on this forum who does gods work as far as lebron Stan’s go.

And this isn’t to say lebron doesn’t get crucified in some circles either, mostly old heads. But 2011 was unfortunate, especially for the goat debate where everyone is going to argue over everyone’s career with a fine tooth comb.

MJ never losing a series with HCA, and a double three peat is hard to nitpick against. And for LeBron it’s harsh 2011 gets brought up so much, because 1 “down” year out of 22 is a silly thing to focus on over a whole body of work.

But go check out places besides here where the demographic skews much lower, and it’s a lot of MJ bashing against uncs.

[The Master]

> old-head says some nonsense
>> LeBron's haters activate - and create a 20-page long thread about stuff that was discussed 319021 times
>>> In the not-so-distant future: LeBron's haters will complain about LeBron being at the centre of everything

RealGM's circle of life.

[Cavsfansince84]

I dont like him and you keep on taking up for him….sounds good to me

You're free to do that. I just come here every so often to remind people of how absurd most of these arguments and criticisms of him are that people stand by as though they are gospel truth.

[Iwasawitness]

Ah, so basically Durant has been unguarded his entire career. What a ridiculous criteria. If they had put Irving on Durant the whole series, I’d get it. You just can’t grasp the concept that Durant was guarded, and yes tightly. Switch yes and mismatches happen all the time, no one is immune to that. Durant just had an all time feels finals in spite of being guarded tightly.

Not the point I was making. The point I'm making is that your argument lacks a LOT of context and doesn't actually paint the full picture. You're claiming to provide a lot of stats to back up what you're saying (of which I'm convinced isn't even correct by the way because he had a hell of a lot more open looks than what your data states). What actually happened says otherwise. You're an adult, right? You're capable of critical thought, right? Watch the series and you tell me with a straight face that the majority of his shots were tightly guarded. Reality paints a different picture.

I did, I literally double checked Durant highlights and while yes he had open cuts to the rim he also had plenty of shots with defenders draped all over him. This is Kevin freakin Durant. Go watch the games, YouTube has Durant only possessions. All my stats I highlighted came from nba.com. None of that chat gpt crap.

Personal insults aren’t going to help you, I agree context always matters, I double checked the highlights to give you the benefit of the doubt. He was always accounted for and guarded by Lebron for many possessions. He literally just had one of the greatest finals ever in history, and it wasn’t due to being left wide open all the time. Or even half the time. That’s why downgrading Durant hypothetically to someone half or a third as good and that series goes a very different way. Had Warriors not replaced Durant with anyone for 2017 I think the cavs win that series.

They can handle curry going super nova, but Durant shooting 70% TS is Jokic levels of efficient. As much grief and as lame as it was for Durant to go to GS, the one thing I will give him credit for is that he was comfortably the best player for them in both 2017 and 2018. I’d argue no individual player has been as dominant against Lebron in regards to their own numbers as Durant.

I stopped reading the moment you said you watched the highlights.

Highlights.

Off to the ignore list you go. I've wasted enough time.

[MrPainfulTruth]

To be fair unless LeBron deliberately tanked a season they weren’t going to get many if any top 10 draft picks, he is fairly definitely the GOAT floor raiser.

Top 10 draft picks are not the only way to build a contender around a generational talent. Hell, the Cavs had a number 10 pick the year after they drafted LeBron and they took Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, and Jameer Nelson.

This has been discussed before on here, but the problem is that people around LeBron and LeBron himself forced Cavs to go all in when LeBron was 22. That's ludicrous. 22-year-olds don't lead teams to NBA titles even if their name is LeBron. You're just not going to beat experienced, balanced, well-built teams at that age. Maybe you get lucky and win a series or two just based on your youth and talent, but you need to win 16 games to be an NBA champion.

The Cavs traded away so many first and second round picks and traded away anything resembling young talent for corpses of players like Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Shaq, Antawn Jamison. There was never a plan beyond "right now," as if James was 35 at the time and not barely 25 by the time he left.

The Cavs needed to both come up with a long-term plan, wait for talent to develop, or wait for good trades or free agency to work out. They also needed to wait for LeBron to mature and for some of the strong teams around that time to either age out or break up. That's the NBA and that's the reality for every star player. You need planning, you need some luck, and you need patience. The Cavs and LeBron acted that same way the Lakers and LeBron have been acting the past few years except LeBron was 15(!) years younger. It was never going to work out.

That is the ironic part. The scheme is always the same. He forces his franchise to trade their future for his "win now" desires, because he refuses or is unable to develop actual talent himself. Then when his parasitic time is over, he moves on and predictably the franchise will fall into a deep hole - due to his actions and desires. And his stans fanboys and shills then go and point at their misery and say "see how bad they are without LeBron" like he wasnt the very reason for the thing in first place.

Mental gymnastics.

Personal attacks are not allowed. Disagree with each other without dismissing the other guy as a "stan, fanboy and shill," which is obviously meant as an insult.

Because this is your 3rd strike, you are now on vacation. Enjoy. -b

[MrPainfulTruth]

The guy that said "either get me the MVP runner up or I'm going to the Lakers with LeBron and AD"? What the **** are you going on about

Kawhi won a title on a team noone would consider a superteam. I'm not referring to what he did before (winning with the spurs) or after (the all but remarkable Clippers chapter).

LeBron refused to EVER go to an AVERAGE team and attempt to win on his own, outside of his first Lakers season, where he completely failed to even make the post season. On top of that, he crowned himself the King and declared himself the GOAT. Shouldnt we hold him to higher standards than every one else, and not continue to make excuses for him?

Who the hell was calling the 2020 Lakers a superteam? And calling the Raptors an "average" team is **** nuts, that same team won almost 60 games the season prior, it's one of the stronger supporting casts around. Kawhi was a demon in the title run but you're talking straight out of your ass.

Also, not that it actually matters, but LeBron didn't give himself the nickname.

1. Of course you just repeat the nonsense Lebron claims, he never played on a superteam according to ... himself.

I remember how good Kevin Love was, because i was a timberwolves fan back then. He was a phenom in the league with his reboundig and long outlet passes. He had the first 30/30 game in decades. Kyrie is the best scorer and ball handler in the entire league a #1 pick . But of course its not a superteam. As usual, his team mates are dragged down to elevate his share.

2. Who gave him that nickname? I remember when he didnt even enter the league he already had "The Chosen 1" tattooed across his back. Dont act like he isnt the msot entitled and big headed narcissist out there.

My point stands. Others showed more stamina, more resilience and more guts / cojones - and succeeded. He always, always took the easiest road. And considering how many people consider him the GOAT, and he supposedly being "the chosen 1", and always taking the easiest possible road, enjoying every possible backup from league and refs, never losing significant time to injury and playing 20+ seasons...i gotta say that four rings, many of which came with asterisk, is not the outcome to brag about. Others achieved more with less, and never made a show about it.

[Tracymcgoaty]

Didn't Doctor J say the same thing? More and more legends are going to claim the same now that lebron is in the brinks of retirement.

DR J said that the only player who's achieved more than him is Kareem. He said this in 2018.

[MrPainfulTruth]

Top 10 draft picks are not the only way to build a contender around a generational talent. Hell, the Cavs had a number 10 pick the year after they drafted LeBron and they took Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, and Jameer Nelson.

This has been discussed before on here, but the problem is that people around LeBron and LeBron himself forced Cavs to go all in when LeBron was 22. That's ludicrous. 22-year-olds don't lead teams to NBA titles even if their name is LeBron. You're just not going to beat experienced, balanced, well-built teams at that age. Maybe you get lucky and win a series or two just based on your youth and talent, but you need to win 16 games to be an NBA champion.

The Cavs traded away so many first and second round picks and traded away anything resembling young talent for corpses of players like Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Shaq, Antawn Jamison. There was never a plan beyond "right now," as if James was 35 at the time and not barely 25 by the time he left.

The Cavs needed to both come up with a long-term plan, wait for talent to develop, or wait for good trades or free agency to work out. They also needed to wait for LeBron to mature and for some of the strong teams around that time to either age out or break up. That's the NBA and that's the reality for every star player. You need planning, you need some luck, and you need patience. The Cavs and LeBron acted that same way the Lakers and LeBron have been acting the past few years except LeBron was 15(!) years younger. It was never going to work out.

Fair enough, I didn’t follow the NBA or the Cavs closely enough back then to know what draft picks they had. Whether this was on LeBron rather than the Cavs organisation becomes the question though, did he pressure them to go win now when he was 20 ?.

I am a Curry partisan and whether partly due to injury misfortune which eventually became good fortune or not GSW who had been similarly hapless as a franchise managed to build around him to win 4 titles which they didn’t commence doing until he was 25. Their owner was prepared to spend as well as take short term fan disapproval, and at least had the good judgement to get Jerry West involved, though.

If Lebron was on a team that was LeBron, Klay, Barnes, Green, Bogut - Livingston, Barbosa, Iggy, Festus when he was 26 then he wouldn't have left the Cavs.

If they then swapped Barnes for Durant then he wouldn't have ever left. Through all the iterations of the Warriors if you swapped LeBron with Curry then LeBron would have never left either.

Just interesting how the dice roll.

Are you trying to say that LeBron could have done what the greatest shooter in the history of the league did? Just plug him in instead of Steph and expect the same results? Thats actually hilarious knowing what LeBron's shooting looked like for the majority of his career

[Rust_Cohle]

Not the point I was making. The point I'm making is that your argument lacks a LOT of context and doesn't actually paint the full picture. You're claiming to provide a lot of stats to back up what you're saying (of which I'm convinced isn't even correct by the way because he had a hell of a lot more open looks than what your data states). What actually happened says otherwise. You're an adult, right? You're capable of critical thought, right? Watch the series and you tell me with a straight face that the majority of his shots were tightly guarded. Reality paints a different picture.

I did, I literally double checked Durant highlights and while yes he had open cuts to the rim he also had plenty of shots with defenders draped all over him. This is Kevin freakin Durant. Go watch the games, YouTube has Durant only possessions. All my stats I highlighted came from nba.com. None of that chat gpt crap.

Personal insults aren’t going to help you, I agree context always matters, I double checked the highlights to give you the benefit of the doubt. He was always accounted for and guarded by Lebron for many possessions. He literally just had one of the greatest finals ever in history, and it wasn’t due to being left wide open all the time. Or even half the time. That’s why downgrading Durant hypothetically to someone half or a third as good and that series goes a very different way. Had Warriors not replaced Durant with anyone for 2017 I think the cavs win that series.

They can handle curry going super nova, but Durant shooting 70% TS is Jokic levels of efficient. As much grief and as lame as it was for Durant to go to GS, the one thing I will give him credit for is that he was comfortably the best player for them in both 2017 and 2018. I’d argue no individual player has been as dominant against Lebron in regards to their own numbers as Durant.

I stopped reading the moment you said you watched the highlights.

Highlights.

Off to the ignore list you go. I've wasted enough time.

Did you read what I said? Highlights of durant’s shots only. You have the emotional IQ of a hamster.

You’ve been shown countless charts and stats and yet you insist on an alternate reality of what actually happened. It’s fascinating how Trump like and anti intellectual you are. It’s also sad too.

Personal attacks are now allowed. Disagree without calling the other guy an anti-intellectual hamster ffs. -b

[michaelm]

Is this a joke? Kobe had 3 championships and people still held it against him because he won with Shaq. People actually try to poke holes at Michael F'n Jordan's resume. People are always picking apart Kevin Durant. Even lesser stars like Melo and Westbrook had to deal with the nitpicking.

LeBron is nothing special in this regard.



The hilarious thing is I am sure John isn't the only former or current player who thinks this.

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

Kobe gets annihilated constantly and always left out of top 10 on many lists despite tons of players having him in the goat convo. He’s 10-11 all time for me, but of the big 3 I can understand why Kobe fans have the most grievances.

As for MJ, what makes his career appear so mythical is there is very little to truly criticize. Check out tik tok and there are thousands of topics based on bashing MJ with “we done with the 90’s, MJ can’t go left, weak competition/plumbers, fake stats, quit twice, gambler, 1-9 without Pippen, never beat bird, and blah blah blah.

Scranton Bulls is one of the most legendary pro lebron trolls on this forum who does gods work as far as lebron Stan’s go.

And this isn’t to say lebron doesn’t get crucified in some circles either, mostly old heads. But 2011 was unfortunate, especially for the goat debate where everyone is going to argue over everyone’s career with a fine tooth comb.

MJ never losing a series with HCA, and a double three peat is hard to nitpick against. And for LeBron it’s harsh 2011 gets brought up so much, because 1 “down” year out of 22 is a silly thing to focus on over a whole body of work.

But go check out places besides here where the demographic skews much lower, and it’s a lot of MJ bashing against uncs.

I probably have Kobe where you have him, and agree he gets bashed, particularly for someone who was integral to the winning of 5 titles. Someone in a previous discussion made the point though which I consider valid that it is hard to put him in any GOAT discussion because he is pretty much the same player as Jordan except not as good. I consider it rather significant that while Phil Jackson was obviously a great coach he won 11 titles as a coach with either Jordan or Kobe, so such a player seems to have been the basis of his playing schemes.

As I believe you said earlier KD has been bashed on this very thread which doesn’t at all concern him. He gets bashed a lot in general, which I believe is hypocritical when LeBron fans who seem to me to be the major perpetrators are doing the bashing. What is ironic for me is that much of the basis of the criticism is essentially that he is too good, as in this thread when it was argued against you that his performances in the finals for GSW don’t really count apparently because he couldn’t be defended despite his direct opponent at SF being one LeBron James. The whole point of KD is that he has freakish skills for his height.

[Rust_Cohle]

3 of the people who liked your post prove my point time and time again.

It's hilarious that think people pick apart Kobe or MJ like they do Lebron.

Kobe gets annihilated constantly and always left out of top 10 on many lists despite tons of players having him in the goat convo. He’s 10-11 all time for me, but of the big 3 I can understand why Kobe fans have the most grievances.

As for MJ, what makes his career appear so mythical is there is very little to truly criticize. Check out tik tok and there are thousands of topics based on bashing MJ with “we done with the 90’s, MJ can’t go left, weak competition/plumbers, fake stats, quit twice, gambler, 1-9 without Pippen, never beat bird, and blah blah blah.

Scranton Bulls is one of the most legendary pro lebron trolls on this forum who does gods work as far as lebron Stan’s go.

And this isn’t to say lebron doesn’t get crucified in some circles either, mostly old heads. But 2011 was unfortunate, especially for the goat debate where everyone is going to argue over everyone’s career with a fine tooth comb.

MJ never losing a series with HCA, and a double three peat is hard to nitpick against. And for LeBron it’s harsh 2011 gets brought up so much, because 1 “down” year out of 22 is a silly thing to focus on over a whole body of work.

But go check out places besides here where the demographic skews much lower, and it’s a lot of MJ bashing against uncs.

I probably have Kobe where you have him, and agree he gets bashed, particularly for someone who was integral to the winning of 5 titles. Someone in a previous discussion made the point though which I consider valid that it is hard to put him in any GOAT discussion because he is pretty much the same player as Jordan except not as good. I consider it rather significant that while Phil Jackson was obviously a great coach he won 11 titles as a coach with either Jordan or Kobe, so such a player seems to have been the basis of his playing schemes.

As I believe you said earlier KD has been bashed on this very thread which doesn’t at all concern him. He gets bashed a lot in general, which I believe is hypocritical when LeBron fans who seem to me to be the major perpetrators are doing the bashing. What is ironic for me is that much of the basis of the criticism is basically that he is too good, as in this thread when it was argued against you that his performances in the finals for GSW don’t really count apparently because he couldn’t be defended despite his direct opponent at SF bring one LeBron James. The whole point of KD is that he has freakish skills for his height.

THANK YOU. I thought I was taking crazy pills. Mismatches happen constantly, but the concept of a defender not counting as guarding someone due to height is one of the more asinine things I have read on this forum. I agree with everything you said.

[zimpy27]

Fair enough, I didn’t follow the NBA or the Cavs closely enough back then to know what draft picks they had. Whether this was on LeBron rather than the Cavs organisation becomes the question though, did he pressure them to go win now when he was 20 ?.

I am a Curry partisan and whether partly due to injury misfortune which eventually became good fortune or not GSW who had been similarly hapless as a franchise managed to build around him to win 4 titles which they didn’t commence doing until he was 25. Their owner was prepared to spend as well as take short term fan disapproval, and at least had the good judgement to get Jerry West involved, though.

If Lebron was on a team that was LeBron, Klay, Barnes, Green, Bogut - Livingston, Barbosa, Iggy, Festus when he was 26 then he wouldn't have left the Cavs.

If they then swapped Barnes for Durant then he wouldn't have ever left. Through all the iterations of the Warriors if you swapped LeBron with Curry then LeBron would have never left either.

Just interesting how the dice roll.

Are you trying to say that LeBron could have done what the greatest shooter in the history of the league did? Just plug him in instead of Steph and expect the same results? Thats actually hilarious knowing what LeBron's shooting looked like for the majority of his career

No not saying he'd shoot as many 3s as Steph, just saying who would have many more rings and he'd have stayed with original team that drafted him.

[LakerLegend]

Don't forget 2012 was a lockout season chip.

[ball_takes23]

If Lebron was on a team that was LeBron, Klay, Barnes, Green, Bogut - Livingston, Barbosa, Iggy, Festus when he was 26 then he wouldn't have left the Cavs.

If they then swapped Barnes for Durant then he wouldn't have ever left. Through all the iterations of the Warriors if you swapped LeBron with Curry then LeBron would have never left either.

Just interesting how the dice roll.

Are you trying to say that LeBron could have done what the greatest shooter in the history of the league did? Just plug him in instead of Steph and expect the same results? Thats actually hilarious knowing what LeBron's shooting looked like for the majority of his career

No not saying he'd shoot as many 3s as Steph, just saying who would have many more rings and he'd have stayed with original team that drafted him.

Steph's best teammate from 2020-2025 was Andrew Wiggins until they traded for a 35 year old Butler. Lebron is currently on a team with Luka, Ayton, Reaves and Rui and he's still sending passive aggressive messages to management that they aren't doing enough to win now. there is 0 evidence to believe that he would have stayed.

[Iwasawitness]

Don't forget 2012 was a lockout season chip.

Completely irrelevant.

[DimesandKnicks]

To be fair unless LeBron deliberately tanked a season they weren’t going to get many if any top 10 draft picks, he is fairly definitely the GOAT floor raiser.

Top 10 draft picks are not the only way to build a contender around a generational talent. Hell, the Cavs had a number 10 pick the year after they drafted LeBron and they took Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, and Jameer Nelson.

This has been discussed before on here, but the problem is that people around LeBron and LeBron himself forced Cavs to go all in when LeBron was 22. That's ludicrous. 22-year-olds don't lead teams to NBA titles even if their name is LeBron. You're just not going to beat experienced, balanced, well-built teams at that age. Maybe you get lucky and win a series or two just based on your youth and talent, but you need to win 16 games to be an NBA champion.

The Cavs traded away so many first and second round picks and traded away anything resembling young talent for corpses of players like Ben Wallace, Wally Szczerbiak, Shaq, Antawn Jamison. There was never a plan beyond "right now," as if James was 35 at the time and not barely 25 by the time he left.

The Cavs needed to both come up with a long-term plan, wait for talent to develop, or wait for good trades or free agency to work out. They also needed to wait for LeBron to mature and for some of the strong teams around that time to either age out or break up. That's the NBA and that's the reality for every star player. You need planning, you need some luck, and you need patience. The Cavs and LeBron acted that same way the Lakers and LeBron have been acting the past few years except LeBron was 15(!) years younger. It was never going to work out.

That is the ironic part. The scheme is always the same. He forces his franchise to trade their future for his "win now" desires, because he refuses or is unable to develop actual talent himself. Then when his parasitic time is over, he moves on and predictably the franchise will fall into a deep hole - due to his actions and desires. And his stans fanboys and shills then go and point at their misery and say "see how bad they are without LeBron" like he wasnt the very reason for the thing in first place.

Mental gymnastics.

It’s Lebron’s job to develop players too. And the “draft young talent and wait for them to develop” would make sense if the Cav’s were a lottery team but they turned into a 50 win team by what? Year three?

[FJS]

What Stockton ia saying is not saying his rings have no value, but he took shortcuts. He chose where to play and with. And he choose elite players. It's legit, and 2016 ring was one of the most difficult rings to win ever, no Matter what.
Stockton could go elsewhere and chose not to do It.
He, and Malone, where not projected to be all time players (they weren't top 10 in their draft) and after hard work they were able to be really near to win the tittle.
Probably , if would be more satisfactory, than winning one going with prime Barkley and prime Ewing in 90 to say 2 ringless players.


Sent from my 23030RAC7Y using RealGM mobile app

[CzBoobie]

What Stockton ia saying is not saying his rings have no value, but he took shortcuts. He chose where to play and with. And he choose elite players. It's legit, and 2016 ring was one of the most difficult rings to win ever, no Matter what.
Stockton could go elsewhere and chose not to do It.
He, and Malone, where not projected to be all time players (they weren't top 10 in their draft) and after hard work they were able to be really near to win the tittle.
Probably , if would be more satisfactory, than winning one going with prime Barkley and prime Ewing in 90 to say 2 ringless players.


Sent from my 23030RAC7Y using RealGM mobile app

That is not a shortcut. Athletes in every sport do it all the time. They actually choose where they want to play. Pretending it is like some forbidden thing for a professional athlete to do is wild...And especially one who always honored his contract.

[CzBoobie]

Are you trying to say that LeBron could have done what the greatest shooter in the history of the league did? Just plug him in instead of Steph and expect the same results? Thats actually hilarious knowing what LeBron's shooting looked like for the majority of his career

No not saying he'd shoot as many 3s as Steph, just saying who would have many more rings and he'd have stayed with original team that drafted him.

Steph's best teammate from 2020-2025 was Andrew Wiggins until they traded for a 35 year old Butler. Lebron is currently on a team with Luka, Ayton, Reaves and Rui and he's still sending passive aggressive messages to management that they aren't doing enough to win now. there is 0 evidence to believe that he would have stayed.

Yeah, Curry only played with Andrew Wiggins, all others were nameless trash like Klay Thompson, Draymond Green, Jordan Poole, Payton jr., Porter jr...no one can compare to Ayton and Hachimura I guess.

[michaelm]

What Stockton ia saying is not saying his rings have no value, but he took shortcuts. He chose where to play and with. And he choose elite players. It's legit, and 2016 ring was one of the most difficult rings to win ever, no Matter what.
Stockton could go elsewhere and chose not to do It.
He, and Malone, where not projected to be all time players (they weren't top 10 in their draft) and after hard work they were able to be really near to win the tittle.
Probably , if would be more satisfactory, than winning one going with prime Barkley and prime Ewing in 90 to say 2 ringless players.


Sent from my 23030RAC7Y using RealGM mobile app

What he is saying is that it is not how things were done in his day, and he is a leading curmudgeon as has been said.

His contention about LeBron’s titles is nonsense, LeBron didn’t have it easy at all and was majorly responsible for winning all 4 titles, perhaps co-equally with AD for the last one when he was 35. I also don’t see that his path is intrinsically less worthy than other paths.

I take it you don’t hold with the narrative of Jordan being advantaged by his team-mates and have no issue with KD exercising his own prerogative to join GSW as a Free Agent either though.