Bears 12.0

[nomorezorro]

monangai is supposed to be a good blocker (although he's a rookie) and roschon is solid at that too. plus we have travis homer who is basically a blocking specialist in addition to being a special teams guy

i suspect the williams workout is solely because roschon got hurt, but i guess we'll see

[fleet]

Williams coming in is a bad sign for the running back room’s projected talent availability. Either not good enough, or not available enough. By the way, What’s going through Swift’s mind…. “Here I go again”

[Dresden]

"miracles do happen" is obviously a figure of speech. I think Tyson's chance are greater than the earth getting hit by a sizable asteroid in the next 10 years, but less than the Cubs winning the division this year.

I also was using miracle liberally. Without doing a bunch of math and research and deeply backing it up, I'd say his odds of being an important part of the Bears future between 1 in 200-500, and by important I don't mean he comes in and wins 2 of 3 games as a backup and plays well, but becomes an above average starting caliber QB capable of leading the Bears somewhere over multiple seasons. Not miracle stuff in the literal sense of the word, but unlikely enough to not be more interesting then literally any QB in the NFL that is under 26 and on a roster and explicitly less interesting than the majority of guys that fit that profile.

I did some digging, and discovered there are at least 2 QB's who have achieved NFL fame after being undrafted: Tony Romo and Kurt Warner. Both had routes to NFL starters that were at least as uncertain as Bagent's. Romo was signed immediately after the draft by Dallas (where Sean Peyton noticed him), but was nothing more than a holder on place kicks for two years, before finally getting a shot when Drew Bledsoe faltered during the 2006 season.

Warner's story is even more circuitous- he was out of football altogether after going undrafted, then caught on with the AFL, and finally landed a contract with St. Louis in 1997 and it took until 1999 for him to become a starter- 5 years after finishing college.

To me, what's interesting about Bagent is that he's on the Bears! I also do think he's got some talent, and while I don't want to see anything happen to Caleb, I'd love to see what he does in a game with this current Bears offense.

[Dresden]

Interesting side note to the Kurt Warner story- he had an invite in 1997 from the Bears for a tryout, but got bitten by some kind of insect while on his honeymoon, which caused problems with his throwing arm, so couldn't attend. What might have been!

[Dresden]

Ashton Jeanty's debut with the Raiders last night: 3 carries, -1 yards.

[Dominator83]

Interesting side note to the Kurt Warner story- he had an invite in 1997 from the Bears for a tryout, but got bitten by some kind of insect while on his honeymoon, which caused problems with his throwing arm, so couldn't attend. What might have been!

Bears never develop anyone so doubt it would have mattered

[Susan]

Read on Twitter

[DropStep]

I am sure the Bears did not think they were drafting this big of a project, and Johnson didn't think he was inheriting this big of a project. We are all rooting for Caleb, like Armstead is, but eesh. Compare it to comments about McCaffrey or Drake Maye, and it just doesn't radiate good vibes.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

It rings true Caleb can’t feel the pressure pre snap or immediately post snap. He usually sees it only when it’s right on top of him, or beelining. It’s a problem. It’s probably why Caleb doesn’t always get through his progressions, he’s distracted by checking for a pass rush that he hasn’t read well. And that’s why you keep an open mind at the top of the draft. Drilling down on player characteristics of each prospect. You got your choice, man. Caleb will have multiple dozens of sacks this year, Thuney and Dalman and Johnson or not

[nomorezorro]

it makes sense that the biggest issue of caleb's rookie season is still an issue in training camp before his second season. obviously not ideal, but despite the delusional homer-level fans who convinced themselves that the coaching staff and offensive line were responsible for all his problems last season, i don't think anyone reasonable expected him to have that part of his game completely cleaned up this year.

the mysteries are whether he can be better on that front this year than he was last year, and whether he can get to a point where his talent and johnson's scheming are enough to overcome any shortcomings that persist

[Susan]

it makes sense that the biggest issue of caleb's rookie season is still an issue in training camp before his second season. obviously not ideal, but despite the delusional homer-level fans who convinced themselves that the coaching staff and offensive line were responsible for all his problems last season, i don't think anyone reasonable expected him to have that part of his game completely cleaned up this year.

the mysteries are whether he can be better on that front this year than he was last year, and whether he can get to a point where his talent and johnson's scheming are enough to overcome any shortcomings that persist

1. This was something that should have been scouted. Nobody put a gun to Ryan Poles' head to draft Caleb

2. The OL absolutely did him zero favors which is why they replaced 3, maybe 4 of that grouping. A certain QB in New York has a stacked OL in front of him right now and will look miles better than he ever did here because of it

3. Neither Waldron nor Ben Johnson have developed a QB before - that's on Ryan Poles. Ben's a great playcaller but Goff had already established himself in the NFL

Caleb's not playing today. It's a move that's many fans and media members are critical of considering where he's at in his development. Blind faith hasn't served the Chicago Bears fan well when talking about the QB position.

[Bulls69]

I would agree that being a very good starting QB seems like a long shot. But Brock Purdy was the last player taken in the draft, so not so different, and he's become quite good. Just because Purdy did it doesn't mean Bagent will, but he has done one thing that at least puts doubt into your first point (that he wasn't viewed as an NFL QB)- he's made an NFL roster now for [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]] years in a row. So that's something.

In any case, he's going to get the start this weekend, so that will give him a chance to show what he can do.

The Purdy example is a completely worthless argument, because it says nothing about Bagent. It could be used on literally any QB in the NFL that was drafted late. But beyond that, Purdy was awesome in his rookie season when he got a chance. He had [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]] TDs and [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]] INTs and destroyed Bagent statistically by any way you want to measure it in Bagent's beginning, so Bagent is already not on Purdy's path. If he were, he would have killed it when he had a chance, and he'd be starting.

FWIW, I said "not a starting caliber NFL QB" not "not an NFL QB", but to be more precise by that statement, I mean the Bears viewed him as a long shot prospect to be a starting caliber QB. If they thought he had [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] chance, he wouldn't have made the roster, but I think that would generally I'd say if teams think you have a [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]/[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]] or better shot at being a starter in this league you are going in the [emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]st or [emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]nd round.

Making the roster for [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]] years as a backup isn't really evidence of him being an NFL starting caliber player at all. Furthermore, the odds of him being a good starting QB decrease with every year that he hasn't proven it. Ie, if your long shot guy didn't show out right away, it's less likely he's going to emerge later. Tyson hasn't shown out right away. He got a shot and he was 'meh'. Purdy was not 'meh' when he got a shot. He was fantastic.

There are certainly mitigating factors for Bagent, I don't think he has zero chance, just it's a real long shot that he's more than a backup. I will keep my fingers crossed, I would love to get some surprise upside from anywhere.

(edit to correct that he was a late UDFA vs late draft pick)

That’s my point: folks are anointing Bagent as the second coming of Purdy, who balled out when he was given a chance, like you said.


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[Bulls69]

The Purdy example is a completely worthless argument, because it says nothing about Bagent. It could be used on literally any QB in the NFL that was drafted late. But beyond that, Purdy was awesome in his rookie season when he got a chance. He had 13 TDs and 4 INTs and destroyed Bagent statistically by any way you want to measure it in Bagent's beginning, so Bagent is already not on Purdy's path. If he were, he would have killed it when he had a chance, and he'd be starting.

To be clear though, because I don't think Bagent was viewed as a guy who was likely to have NFL starting QB upside. The fact that he was drafted means he has some chance to develop, but he was viewed as a long shot guy. Making the roster for 3 years as a backup isn't really evidence of him being an NFL starting caliber player at all.

Furthermore, the odds of him being a good starting QB decrease with every year that he hasn't proven it. Ie, if your long shot guy didn't show out right away, it's less likely he's going to emerge later. Tyson hasn't shown out right away. He got a shot and he was 'meh'.

Could he be a viable backup, sure. Could he be a starting caliber guy? Possibly, but probably not. Could he be an above average starting caliber guy? Almost assuredly not at this point.

Agree with everything here, except that Bagent was undrafted.

And Purdy was the last player selected .


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[Dresden]

How many QB's do the Bears have right now? If it's just Keenum and Bagent, each will likely play a half today, right?

[Bulls69]

Ashton Jeanty's debut with the Raiders last night: 3 carries, -1 yards.

If Ashton played on the Bears our base would be calling him a bust after one preseason game


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[Dresden]

Ashton Jeanty's debut with the Raiders last night: 3 carries, -1 yards.

If Ashton played on the Bears our base would be calling him a bust after one preseason game


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I had concerns about his running style translating to the NFL, where defenders are bigger, faster, and better tacklers.

[Bulls69]

Ashton Jeanty's debut with the Raiders last night: 3 carries, -1 yards.

If Ashton played on the Bears our base would be calling him a bust after one preseason game


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I had concerns about his running style translating to the NFL, where defenders are bigger, faster, and better tacklers.

I don't take much stock in a rookie in his first preseason game.


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[molepharmer]

How many QB's do the Bears have right now? If it's just Keenum and Bagent, each will likely play a half today, right?

Think they still have Austin Reed (??)

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Sanborn who? Ok 44

[molepharmer]

refreshed this page several times, thinking surely people are posting about the game, but not so much....
Anywho, hoping Loveland is okay. Haven't seen him in after that catch and run where he took an awkward decent hit. No surprise but the Bears 3rd/4th string DBs stink.