Stockton says LeBrons titles don’t have value

[SomeBunghole]

No doubt many think that, but the question is why ?. I am a Curry fan myself, so it is a narrative which suits me, but I don’t see any compelling argument, it is perhaps something of a motherhood statement.

Because sports are a performance and narratives make performance great. That's why we watch sports. If there were no narrative, we wouldn't watch. Winning with a team that drafted you or playing for the hometown team or staying loyal to a team makes for a compelling narrative.

[Yank3525]

The talent on the Cavs from 2003-2010 is lightyears away from the kind of talent Stockton got during his career with the Jazz.

The best team and most successful Stockton was on was the one when Stockton was in his mid-30s. Stockton was in his 10th season when the Jazz finally got a serviceable shooting guard next to him.

LeBron joined the league 4 years younger than Stockton, has already played 20+ seasons, but he couldn't **** wait 2-3 years at the age of 22 for Cavs to be in a position to put good players around him? Come on.

Yeah.

The Cavs big mistake the first go around was going all in on Lebron as if he was 28 instead of 21. I don't know if Gilbert and Ferry were pressured by LeBron's camp to make moves. But they really should have been aiming to have a championship caliber team by 2010/2011. Ages 26-28 is usually the age when great players start to win championship rings anyway. There was no need to rush.

[Cavsfansince84]

It's silly to even draw comparisons between Stockton and LeBron. Stockton has absolutely no idea what its like to be hailed as the Chosen One going into his jr year of hs, being the #1 pick in a draft at 18 and then going to a 17 win team and being expected to win rings there. Much less, being a 4x mvp, 4x fmvp and 40k pt scorer. So ya Stockton is probably still a top 30 player all time but his experiences as an nba player are not in the least like those of LeBron so him commenting is kind of ridiculous tbh. Really, nobody in nba history outside of like 4-5 guys has any idea what it's like to be LeBron with all those expectations at such a young age. Wemby is the latest. Stockton didn't even become a full time starter until he was 25.

[The4thHorseman]

Watch on YouTube

The YT video was Stockton when part of the dream team getting unnoticed as he and his family walked the streets. Then encountered a fan wearing a dream team shirt but was clueless to who Stockton was until told.

[Cavsfansince84]

Yeah.

The Cavs big mistake the first go around was going all in on Lebron as if he was 28 instead of 21. I don't know if Gilbert and Ferry were pressured by LeBron's camp to make moves. But they really should have been aiming to have a championship caliber team by 2010/2011. Ages 26-28 is usually the age when great players start to win championship rings anyway. There was no need to rush.

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing. Then Hughes has a serious back injury and is basically a wasted contract and in spite of all that LeBron still leads the team to 66 wins in 09 and has everyone thinking that we might actually win the title after going 8-0 the first two rounds. Really, if we'd had a top 5-10 coach at that time I think we would have at least beat Orl but MB was more like bottom 5-10. So the franchise had fooled itself and its fans into thinking they'd been making good enough moves all those years to make us into a contender but the 09/10 playoffs sort of exposed us for what we were. We just had a goat level player with enough two way impact to still get us 1 seeds.

[SomeBunghole]

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing.

Again, it's impossible to get assets and keep assets and stockpile assets when you're trading everything you have every season for over-the-hill vets.

[The4thHorseman]

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing.

Again, it's impossible to get assets and keep assets and stockpile assets when you're trading everything you have every season for over-the-hill vets.

Which assets did Cleveland trade during LeBron's first stint there?

Im guessing you don't know how the Boozer situation went down with Cleveland and how he ended up in Utah??

[Cavsfansince84]

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing.

Again, it's impossible to get assets and keep assets and stockpile assets when you're trading everything you have every season for over-the-hill vets.

There was nothing to keep or stockpile dude. We were getting top 20ish draft picks every year and the main option was just to sign over the hill free agents like big Ben and Shaq which is what they did. Maybe a competent front office could have gotten a legit #2/3 but then again maybe not. The big move they made in the 05-08 years was the Larry Hughes trade and then he got injured so it was a waste. It was a bunch of low level starters and journeymen who filled out the roster and then we got Mo who was really more like an ok #3 on a real contender.

[KyRo23]

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing.

Again, it's impossible to get assets and keep assets and stockpile assets when you're trading everything you have every season for over-the-hill vets.

What assets? After year 2, LeBron was leading the Cavs to 50 win seasons. It's not like they had high draft picks. When they actually had a lottery pick during his tenure, they wasted it on Luke Jackson.

[SomeBunghole]

Im guessing you don't know how the Boozer situation went down with Cleveland and how he ended up in Utah??

Nah man, as a Jazz fan in my 40s, I have no recollection of the Boozer saga.

[the_process]

I don’t trust when John Stockton does his own research

We should be at the apology stage by now.

[ballzboyee]

I don't really agree with this take. I mean, if you play legit comp in the finals then the championship is good to go in my book. OKC and SA were more than legit in my opinion. GSW was totally legit. The only one you can really call into question is the bubble championship, but that's out of everybody's control.

[parapooper]

The problem is that they never really had any good assets from his 1st year to his 7th outside of Boozer who we lost for nothing.

Again, it's impossible to get assets and keep assets and stockpile assets when you're trading everything you have every season for over-the-hill vets.

They never had anything to stockpile. They were even refusing to trade JJ Hickson since he was their one great hope

They were just an idiot franchise. When Lebron left for 4 years the supporting cast they built for him was so trash that they could have drafted Embiid + Gobert + Jokic + Giannis + Draymond + Kawhi + Klay + Lillard + Middleton + a few more. Instead, they put together the Kyrie/Love supporting cast that won 4 out of 27 when Lebron was sitting - and then had meh synergy with him when he was playing (2 guys who needed the ball to have any positive impact next to Lebron who is maximized when he has the ball as much as possible)

On top of their general incompetence they also had quite a bit of bad luck. Boozer went back on his handshake deal, Hughes got injured right away and fell off a cliff.
Same with Ben Wallace - he was +13 on/off in the PS since 2003 but then was -22 with the 2009 Cavs (deep in -30s against ORL) after piling up injuries before the playoffs, allowing Dwight to have an epic series - they would have easily made the finals otherwise.

[The4thHorseman]

Im guessing you don't know how the Boozer situation went down with Cleveland and how he ended up in Utah??

Nah man, as a Jazz fan in my 40s, I have no recollection of the Boozer saga.

Then why sling blame when knowing Boozer **** on the Cavs and bolted? Weird way of you knowing how things went down with him.

[Black Jack]

NBA retirees have way too much bad to say about current players. You don't hear Tom Brady or Ken Griffey Jr or somebody like that whining about guys playing today anywhere near the amount HoF level NBA players do.

It's become ridiculous and honestly jealousy seems to be the real issue.

There's no other sport where retirees are so convinced their era was better. get real.

[SomeBunghole]

What assets? After year 2, LeBron was leading the Cavs to 50 win seasons. It's not like they had high draft picks. When they actually had a lottery pick during his tenure, they wasted it on Luke Jackson.

Draft picks are assets, regardless of where they land. Young player are assets. Cap space is an asset. All the stuff traded for Jamison and Szczerbiak and Wallace was assets.

[SomeBunghole]

Then why sling blame when knowing Boozer **** on the Cavs and bolted? Weird way of you knowing how things went down with him.

You're asking why I'm blaming Cavs ownership for trying to pull an illegal, under-the-table move? Really?

[michaelm]

No doubt many think that, but the question is why ?. I am a Curry fan myself, so it is a narrative which suits me, but I don’t see any compelling argument, it is perhaps something of a motherhood statement.

Because sports are a performance and narratives make performance great. That's why we watch sports. If there were no narrative, we wouldn't watch. Winning with a team that drafted you or playing for the hometown team or staying loyal to a team makes for a compelling narrative.

If so you need to find some Cavs fans upset with the course he took. They mostly seem to consider the organisation rather than him is to blame for him leaving the first time and happy he came back and led them to their only title, and many of them also seem to have remained fans.

I don’t see why LeBron’s narrative has to fit with what pleases people who are not fans of him or his teams. I have the same view of the attitude of LeBron fans to Kevin Durant though.

[WiggOuts]

NBA retirees have way too much bad to say about current players. You don't hear Tom Brady or Ken Griffey Jr or somebody like that whining about guys playing today anywhere near the amount HoF level NBA players do.

It's become ridiculous and honestly jealousy seems to be the real issue.

There's no other sport where retirees are so convinced their era was better. get real.

I think none of these old timers want to admit it, you hear the odd person come out and say it here and there but I think there's TONS of jealousy surrounding how much these guys make. Nowadays you have average players signing contracts that some of these old guys have barely made over their entire CAREERS. I bet its hard for these guys not to feel a ways and it trickles down through their subconscious

[KyRo23]

What assets? After year 2, LeBron was leading the Cavs to 50 win seasons. It's not like they had high draft picks. When they actually had a lottery pick during his tenure, they wasted it on Luke Jackson.

Draft picks are assets, regardless of where they land. Young player are assets. Cap space is an asset. All the stuff traded for Jamison and Szczerbiak and Wallace was assets.

Well yeah, everyone has these "assets", but it doesn't mean they were good assets. There is a reason they traded them for over the hill mid tier players. I'm not saying it was impossible for them to make better trades, but they didn't have many assets that interested the league