Moderators: bisme37, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman
165bows wrote:Fencer reregistered wrote:
Good new watchlist - players that try to start fights with Joe as likely future acquisitions.
Joe pretty much doesn't want anyone that hasn't tried to fight him already.
31to6 wrote:165bows wrote:Fencer reregistered wrote:
Good new watchlist - players that try to start fights with Joe as likely future acquisitions.
Joe pretty much doesn't want anyone that hasn't tried to fight him already.
1. this is probably why we traded Rob
2. which Sun player did Joe try to block when they were attempting an after-the-whistle 3? I think he might be out of the league by now, but otherwise, maybe we'll see him in green some time
Pritchard thinks that Boucher, his former University of Oregon teammate in 2016, was a particularly great pickup.
“He’s a high-energy guy,” Pritchard said. “The plays he’ll be able to make are unbelievable at times. I do remember one thing from college – he never gets tired, so we should definitely use that, him running the floor.”
“I think he’ll fit wonderfully, and we definitely need him.”
Gant wrote:Pritchard on Boucher:Pritchard thinks that Boucher, his former University of Oregon teammate in 2016, was a particularly great pickup.
“He’s a high-energy guy,” Pritchard said. “The plays he’ll be able to make are unbelievable at times. I do remember one thing from college – he never gets tired, so we should definitely use that, him running the floor.”
“I think he’ll fit wonderfully, and we definitely need him.”
https://www.celticsblog.com/boston-celtics-news/120827/its-not-a-gap-year-payton-pritchard-talks-celtics-expectations-starting-chance-and-more
Shak_Celts wrote:Gant wrote:Pritchard on Boucher:Pritchard thinks that Boucher, his former University of Oregon teammate in 2016, was a particularly great pickup.
“He’s a high-energy guy,” Pritchard said. “The plays he’ll be able to make are unbelievable at times. I do remember one thing from college – he never gets tired, so we should definitely use that, him running the floor.”
“I think he’ll fit wonderfully, and we definitely need him.”
https://www.celticsblog.com/boston-celtics-news/120827/its-not-a-gap-year-payton-pritchard-talks-celtics-expectations-starting-chance-and-more
Literally what you see on film! Good memory Pritch!
The energy thing is something I have thought of with every guy we have picked up since drafting Rico. Garza, Minott, Hugo, Rico, Boucher, and others I’m missing.
The only ones who weren’t are either gone or Amari. I didn’t think Amari wasn’t a guy who moved a lot and wasn’t involved in everything until SL. I thought he was going to do some of everything for us in time. He was lost most SL games until we let him run the offense in one of the last games. His energy/hustle let me down. I still believe in him fully, I just thought he’d show sooner than later. If nothing, a motor.
I can’t remember much of the video on Shulga, I was bored and I only got through him shooting poorly before I gave up. However, I don’t remember him loafing. I watched only one full video of the kid from Utah, I remember him doing some of everything too. I don’t know what happened that last game, but you don’t take your best player out because they can’t shoot for one game. It didn’t look like he was playing terribly, just poor shooting, but I didn’t watch the whole game.
Yeah, Watson let me down. He wasn’t an energy guy though. Thought he could be a version of older Al. (If people don’t remember Al before the Celtics you missed out)
Hal14 wrote:Shak_Celts wrote:
Literally what you see on film! Good memory Pritch!
The energy thing is something I have thought of with every guy we have picked up since drafting Rico. Garza, Minott, Hugo, Rico, Boucher, and others I’m missing.
The only ones who weren’t are either gone or Amari. I didn’t think Amari wasn’t a guy who moved a lot and wasn’t involved in everything until SL. I thought he was going to do some of everything for us in time. He was lost most SL games until we let him run the offense in one of the last games. His energy/hustle let me down. I still believe in him fully, I just thought he’d show sooner than later. If nothing, a motor.
I can’t remember much of the video on Shulga, I was bored and I only got through him shooting poorly before I gave up. However, I don’t remember him loafing. I watched only one full video of the kid from Utah, I remember him doing some of everything too. I don’t know what happened that last game, but you don’t take your best player out because they can’t shoot for one game. It didn’t look like he was playing terribly, just poor shooting, but I didn’t watch the whole game.
Yeah, Watson let me down. He wasn’t an energy guy though. Thought he could be a version of older Al. (If people don’t remember Al before the Celtics you missed out)
Motor is a tricky thing to use when evaluating a player.
Nesmith when he was here played with a crazy high motor but it backfired usually because he played too fast, wild and out of control, resulting in him missing layups, playing too fast and then missing jumpers because he needed to slow down and take his time more with his shot or he'd foul jump shooters, etc.
Most people would probably say KG had a much higher motor than Tim Duncan but most people would say Duncan was the better player. Duncan even seemed boring to watch him play often times. His facial expression on the court would probably seem like he doesn't care. It's like that with Tatum too sometimes, which is why I think people read too deeply into some of that kind of stuff.
Also, guys who people think have a high motor are typically smaller players. The smaller the player, the easier it is for them to play at a really high speed all the time without getting tired, the more energy they can play with. Also, the more athletic they are..(Minott). Also, guys who play a low amount of mins per game..it's easier for them to play with a high motor because they can sit on the bench for awhile, come in well rested, go wild out there with a high motor, knowing that they're only in for a short stint and then come back out.
Guys who are bigger, guys who play more mins, guys who have a usage % of like 24+ (Amari last season checked all those boxes) typically have to pace themselves a bit more. Otherwise, they'll have no gas left in the tank come crunch time..or late in the season when the games matter more..
Guys like Pritchard, TJ McConnell..smaller guys who come of the bench..those are the types of guys who are typically the energy/motor guys for a team..or a freak athlete off the bench like Minott or Obi Toppin..
31to6 wrote:Hal14 wrote:Shak_Celts wrote:Literally what you see on film! Good memory Pritch!
The energy thing is something I have thought of with every guy we have picked up since drafting Rico. Garza, Minott, Hugo, Rico, Boucher, and others I’m missing.
The only ones who weren’t are either gone or Amari. I didn’t think Amari wasn’t a guy who moved a lot and wasn’t involved in everything until SL. I thought he was going to do some of everything for us in time. He was lost most SL games until we let him run the offense in one of the last games. His energy/hustle let me down. I still believe in him fully, I just thought he’d show sooner than later. If nothing, a motor.
I can’t remember much of the video on Shulga, I was bored and I only got through him shooting poorly before I gave up. However, I don’t remember him loafing. I watched only one full video of the kid from Utah, I remember him doing some of everything too. I don’t know what happened that last game, but you don’t take your best player out because they can’t shoot for one game. It didn’t look like he was playing terribly, just poor shooting, but I didn’t watch the whole game.
Yeah, Watson let me down. He wasn’t an energy guy though. Thought he could be a version of older Al. (If people don’t remember Al before the Celtics you missed out)
Motor is a tricky thing to use when evaluating a player.
Nesmith when he was here played with a crazy high motor but it backfired usually because he played too fast, wild and out of control, resulting in him missing layups, playing too fast and then missing jumpers because he needed to slow down and take his time more with his shot or he'd foul jump shooters, etc.
Most people would probably say KG had a much higher motor than Tim Duncan but most people would say Duncan was the better player. Duncan even seemed boring to watch him play often times. His facial expression on the court would probably seem like he doesn't care. It's like that with Tatum too sometimes, which is why I think people read too deeply into some of that kind of stuff.
Also, guys who people think have a high motor are typically smaller players. The smaller the player, the easier it is for them to play at a really high speed all the time without getting tired, the more energy they can play with. Also, the more athletic they are..(Minott). Also, guys who play a low amount of mins per game..it's easier for them to play with a high motor because they can sit on the bench for awhile, come in well rested, go wild out there with a high motor, knowing that they're only in for a short stint and then come back out.
Guys who are bigger, guys who play more mins, guys who have a usage % of like 24+ (Amari last season checked all those boxes) typically have to pace themselves a bit more. Otherwise, they'll have no gas left in the tank come crunch time..or late in the season when the games matter more..
Guys like Pritchard, TJ McConnell..smaller guys who come of the bench..those are the types of guys who are typically the energy/motor guys for a team..or a freak athlete off the bench like Minott or Obi Toppin..
Let's keep it simple then and compare two Celtics Summer League bigs: Amari and Bassey
One of them played with a great motor in his Vegas minutes, and the other did not.
One has a contract (I know it's a two-way, but it's still something) and the other doesn't, so I'm not saying that motor = everything -- and I do believe that one can learn it/develop it.
E.g. Nesmith's college film and profile didn't indicate that he'd be throwing himself around so recklessly out there, but I think the message he received in his early career with the Celtics was 'pure hustle = minutes'. A few years later, he finally seems to be figuring out the right level given his role.
No reason Amari can't develop similarly -- and perhaps even more effectively, too?
Hal14 wrote:31to6 wrote:Hal14 wrote:Motor is a tricky thing to use when evaluating a player.
Nesmith when he was here played with a crazy high motor but it backfired usually because he played too fast, wild and out of control, resulting in him missing layups, playing too fast and then missing jumpers because he needed to slow down and take his time more with his shot or he'd foul jump shooters, etc.
Most people would probably say KG had a much higher motor than Tim Duncan but most people would say Duncan was the better player. Duncan even seemed boring to watch him play often times. His facial expression on the court would probably seem like he doesn't care. It's like that with Tatum too sometimes, which is why I think people read too deeply into some of that kind of stuff.
Also, guys who people think have a high motor are typically smaller players. The smaller the player, the easier it is for them to play at a really high speed all the time without getting tired, the more energy they can play with. Also, the more athletic they are..(Minott). Also, guys who play a low amount of mins per game..it's easier for them to play with a high motor because they can sit on the bench for awhile, come in well rested, go wild out there with a high motor, knowing that they're only in for a short stint and then come back out.
Guys who are bigger, guys who play more mins, guys who have a usage % of like 24+ (Amari last season checked all those boxes) typically have to pace themselves a bit more. Otherwise, they'll have no gas left in the tank come crunch time..or late in the season when the games matter more..
Guys like Pritchard, TJ McConnell..smaller guys who come of the bench..those are the types of guys who are typically the energy/motor guys for a team..or a freak athlete off the bench like Minott or Obi Toppin..
Let's keep it simple then and compare two Celtics Summer League bigs: Amari and Bassey
One of them played with a great motor in his Vegas minutes, and the other did not.
One has a contract (I know it's a two-way, but it's still something) and the other doesn't, so I'm not saying that motor = everything -- and I do believe that one can learn it/develop it.
E.g. Nesmith's college film and profile didn't indicate that he'd be throwing himself around so recklessly out there, but I think the message he received in his early career with the Celtics was 'pure hustle = minutes'. A few years later, he finally seems to be figuring out the right level given his role.
No reason Amari can't develop similarly -- and perhaps even more effectively, too?
One of the points I was trying to make is that the player who appears to have the better motor is not necessarily the better player. IE, Duncan better than KG, Tatum better than Nesmith, D-white better than Pritchard, KD better than Josh Hart, etc.
Shak_Celts wrote:Now when did better player get into this? I thought I said Amari is my binky, I think he’s going to be excellent.
You’re talking personality, no one you named, of the best players, give me the vibe of lazy on the court or inactive. I never thought KG played harder than Duncan, just think Duncan was great but a boring personality. I still think KG was better, nothing to do with energy. Every good player you named did/does some of everything out there. They are always involved in both sides of the court. That’s energy. I understand what it takes to play both sides at a high level.
Sure, we laud guys who dive on the floor and make hustle plays, but that doesn't mean the best players are loafing around and not hustling. When you don’t have much responsibility the least you could do is be active and make an impact.
DWhite is another guy who isn’t the top tier star and does everything, I never saw him as someone who wasn’t a hustle player. He doesn’t have a fiery personality tho.
I think you think that I believe an outgoing persona is the same as a hustle player. I definitely don’t. There are quite a few players that make you see them, but they are lazy as hell. They only hustle when they get the ball or think they are about to get it. They don’t move unless it’s about them.
Amari wasn’t as active as I thought he would be. There were times when I thought if he reacted sooner he’d have had more defensive impact. I thought he’d be more active on offense. I looked for him on purpose because I like him and he’d just stand there without the ball or when not screening. He seemed slow to react. I didn’t think he was bad, as people suggest, U simply think with a little more urgency he could have been better. I’m sure some of it was because he hasn’t adjusted to not being THE MAN, but a man. He’ll figure it out in the G, because that’s what NBA players have to figure out to survive. Everybody can’t be the star. He’s likely not going to be a hub for a few years, if he lives up to potential. He needs to accept that and get better at the things there will get you PT with the stars.
One of my favorite players of all time is Al Horford, he is a top tier active player. He doesn’t have the look at me type personality either (well, at times when he was younger). He just does some of everything, you want him involved in every aspect.
Garza nor Boucher are small guys and I included them. In fact, Boucher was the main character in my post. I watch videos and he’s always moving, even when the ball isn’t coming his way. The little NBA vid on Garza, he never stops moving. They don’t look lost. I thought Amari looked out of his element and it caused stagnation. Doesn’t mean I don’t think highly of him.
I know I mentioned watching the videos of him when they show the good and the bad. I remember commenting that he never stopped moving. It seemed like he knew where to be, even when it was a bad outcome on his part. He simply didn’t look the same in SL, that’s why I was disappointed. You gotta to put some pep in that step. He seemed freer in both ends when they let him be involved more on offense. You can’t do that in the NBA and expect to get a chance, if you weren’t already anointed as a future good player out of the gate. You gotta move that butt and not stand around lost. I know he has it, but in this day, you have to play like it matters at all times or they’ll move on quickly.
Look at Watson the season prior. They aren’t going to beg you to tap in, you either have a motor or you don’t. You can’t look like you are active one game and then go missing the next. Heck, sometimes in the same game. Only few people get to use all of their energy on one end and get away with it, they are top-tier scorers. Watson was scared to shoot at times.
IT4 was a lightning bug on offense, sometimes he really did try on defense, but it wasn’t a consistent effort at all. Avery Bradley bust his butt way more than IT4, IMO. AB was always active on both sides. It used to anger me when he got credit for anything except defense. That guy was out there active on both sides. Exerted all that energy on defense and still came down and gave good play on offense, he hustled his butt off, even if he wasn’t THE best offender (which people tend to love more).
I could go on and on about players being active. Tatum?? You talking bout Tat of the Boston Celtics? That guy is active asl!! He’s not a hustle player in a sense, because he’s a star, but he’s far from lazy or inactive out there. He is a hustle player if you call it straight, and not how we usually give that term to guys who are role players. All the stars you mentioned are hustle players in the true sense of it.
