Horry

[VeggieBurger]

I was checking basketball reference - this guy really was in the playoffs all 16 years he was in the league? His teams also won at least 1 playoff series each year. How is this not Hall of Fame worthy? I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact to help 16 teams in a row to the playoffs. 16 of 16! That’s crazy. Has anyone else ever done anything like this in the modern era - role player superstar or otherwise?

[gavran]

They don't induct you in the HOF for circumstance.

[UcanUwill]

He was also a big who peaked at 12 ppg. on 41% shooting from the field. Guy was on great teams no doubt, but he is not a hall of famer.

James Harden. 16 years in a league, never missed play offs I believe. Kinda opposite to Horry in actual playoffs, but he has not missed it so far.

[Collymore]

horry, kyle korver and landry fields are all locks

[bonita_the_frog]

There's probably a lot of players who made the playoffs every year because players use to stick to one team for their whole careers in the past, so all they'd need to do is play for a great franchise and they'd never miss the playoffs... and there'd be players who only played for 2 teams and both might of been playoff teams always. So there's probably a HUGE and BIG number of players who always made the playoffs, but winning a series in every playoffs is a lot rarer, especially for 16 years and is only likely to happen if San Antonio and the Lakers play a big part in it.

[God Squad]

Big Shot Bob

Spoiler:

[bonita_the_frog]

^ Wow the Spurs rings look particularly pretty and artisticool.

[dhsilv2]

I was checking basketball reference - this guy really was in the playoffs all 16 years he was in the league? His teams also won at least 1 playoff series each year. How is this not Hall of Fame worthy? I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact to help 16 teams in a row to the playoffs. 16 of 16! That’s crazy. Has anyone else ever done anything like this in the modern era - role player superstar or otherwise?

Making the playoffs? Off the top of my head Duncan made it all 19 seasons, well his team did. He was hurt in 2000.

[UcanUwill]

^ Wow the Spurs rings look particularly pretty and artisticool.

It does not say ''world champion'' which is a huge plus, because NBA champions are not world champions, and its amazing in all these years only one actual American athlete called them out for it.

[76Shots]

He was also a big who peaked at 12 ppg. on 41% shooting from the field. Guy was on great teams no doubt, but he is not a hall of famer.

James Harden. 16 years in a league, never missed play offs I believe. Kinda opposite to Horry in actual playoffs, but he has not missed it so far.

If Harden had whatever "it" is that Horry had in the playoffs, I believe he would be in the GOAT conversation.

[Myth]

I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact...

A bit of both. He was a high level role player, who stepped up at the right times, particularly in the playoffs. Essentially, he established himself as a high level role player early on, and therefore contenders consistently wanted him on their teams. So he earned his way onto good teams by reputation in an era where only role players moved teams frequently, and had a lot of luck of getting onto the right contending teams. But we can't forget that he is still a role player. He wasn't suddenly going to carry teams that did not have star power above him in the pecking order.

[dhsilv2]

He was also a big who peaked at 12 ppg. on 41% shooting from the field. Guy was on great teams no doubt, but he is not a hall of famer.

This kinda misses a lot with Horry. If you're using the field goal percentage with being a big. Even in houston he was taking a lot of 3's.

2005 Spurs - Playoffs. 17.9 PER .199 WS/48 7.6 BPM 1.5 VORP. Now I get it, 26.9 minutes a game and just 9.3 and 5.4.

But if we look at his career playoff advanced stats, a story starts to come out.

He's 59th all time in playoff BPM
25th all time in playoff VORP (this benefits from total games but BPM is hurt by playing into his older age)
Playoff WS 33rd

But just for context that BPM has him above Kyrie, Paul George, Kevin McHale, Vince Carter, and George Gervin just to drop a few big names. It also has him behind Toni Kukoc...it's not a perfect metric.

Back in his day we used to have stars, starters, and role player. And Horry was like the ultimate "anti" role player. While role players back then were guys who were specialists. Horry was the ultimate does everything but volume score guy. He was a big who could post, shoot, drive, but mostly was just a shooter. Defensively he could guard 3 positions and was an elite rotation guy both high and low (high steals and blocks). He was even an OK Passer. He was a legit top 50 nba player at 10-15 different things.

Now at the end of the day, I don't think he's worthy of the hall of fame. But I think too many people dismiss him off his points and rebounds while ignoring that he was stuffing the stat sheet and uniquely improved his game in the playoffs. For his career in the playoffs he averaged about 2 steals + blocks. That's incredible stuff and so often gets ignored.

[tamaraw08]

I was checking basketball reference - this guy really was in the playoffs all 16 years he was in the league? His teams also won at least 1 playoff series each year. How is this not Hall of Fame worthy? I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact to help 16 teams in a row to the playoffs. 16 of 16! That’s crazy. Has anyone else ever done anything like this in the modern era - role player superstar or otherwise?

You really, I mean REALLY ask yourself this question.
Was Robert Horry one of the main reasons his team made it to the playoffs? Was Horry, the team's 3rd best player at least every time?
The guy has a career average of 7pts, 2 assists and under 5 rebounds per game.
Is he super clutch, making crucial 3's almost every time his team badly need a crucial basket? YES !!!
but let's not pretend that he also lacked the needed productivity to go to the HOF list. His career 3pt% for playoffs is under 36%.

[HotelVitale]

I was checking basketball reference - this guy really was in the playoffs all 16 years he was in the league? His teams also won at least 1 playoff series each year. How is this not Hall of Fame worthy? I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact to help 16 teams in a row to the playoffs. 16 of 16! That’s crazy. Has anyone else ever done anything like this in the modern era - role player superstar or otherwise?

Making the playoffs? Off the top of my head Duncan made it all 19 seasons, well his team did. He was hurt in 2000.

I think Stockton did too. Horford is really close too, 19 seasons and I think just missed it once.

[dhsilv2]

I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact...

A bit of both. He was a high level role player, who stepped up at the right times, particularly in the playoffs. Essentially, he established himself as a high level role player early on, and therefore contenders consistently wanted him on their teams. So he earned his way onto good teams by reputation in an era where only role players moved teams frequently, and had a lot of luck of getting onto the right contending teams. But we can't forget that he is still a role player. He wasn't suddenly going to carry teams that did not have star power above him in the pecking order.

One of these days someone is going to have to actual define "role player". Because saying someone is or isn't an all time great because of that and that alone is absurd.

The 29 year XRAPM data has Horry in the 99th percentile on defenses and the 95th overall. This despite missing some of his best years in Houston and having all his worst years (though as we know he's not alone in that with a 29 year sample). It's key to point out, Horry in his prime was not some guy filling in a small role on his teams. He was a foundational building block on defense. No, he was Hakeem or Duncan, but after those two he was as central to any of his teams defenses as anyone if not the next more important guy.

Offensively, today we might see the stretch 4 as a somewhat generic role type. But when Horry did it, he was revolutionizing the game. And the fact he stepped it up in the playoffs was all the more important and telling.

If Horry had played in the regular season like he did in the playoffs, he'd have a strong case to be ranked over a Horace Grant who's always one of the last guys in on the player comp board's top 100. Which would leave him outside the hall. But it would have him very much worthy of discussion and certainly not being dismissed by some absurd term that doesn't have any real meaning.

But most importantly, Horry was not just some guy filling a role. Teams were built around his unique talent in a way honestly half the hall guys I'm not sure you can say did. There were far more volume scorers in NBA history and elite defenders who could guard inside and out while stretching the floor before we knew that mattered so much. Throw in he could put the ball on the floor or post up in a pinch and even made some decent reads passing. This was a complete player.

[JayMKE]

Not to discredit his contributions but Horry definitely was in the right place at the right time between the Rockets, Lakers, Spurs.

[dhsilv2]

I was checking basketball reference - this guy really was in the playoffs all 16 years he was in the league? His teams also won at least 1 playoff series each year. How is this not Hall of Fame worthy? I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact to help 16 teams in a row to the playoffs. 16 of 16! That’s crazy. Has anyone else ever done anything like this in the modern era - role player superstar or otherwise?

Making the playoffs? Off the top of my head Duncan made it all 19 seasons, well his team did. He was hurt in 2000.

I think Stockton did too. Horford is really close too, 19 seasons and I think just missed it once.

Horace Grant did it 16 out of 17 though he himself wasn't always in the playoffs some years. Just missed them in 98 on a 41 win team which isn't terrible, that makes the playoffs most years.

[parapooper]

By some impact measures Horry was 98%ile in the postseason (without requiring much usage!) and was getting paid peanuts.

And as said above, result-wise
16x at least won first round (100% of his seasons) = GOAT by minimum results
7x finals won (100% of his finals) = GOAT by maximum team results

But for some reason none of the idiots who rank players by how good their teammates/coaches/management/opposition were have him even in the top10 GOATs - weird

Also weird how he was never listed as part of a big3 or big4 and none of his teams were called superteams despite his wildly superior postseason impact compared to Bosh
Some postseason numbers for scale:

BPM:
Lebron --- Kobe --- Horry --- Bosh
10.0 --- 5.4 --- 3.7 --- 1.8
#3 --- #30 --- #58 --- #159 out of 3000+ or so

RAPM (97-24) (age 26-37 for Horry)
Lebron --- Kobe --- Horry --- Bosh
7.7 --- 1.7 --- 3.0 --- -2.6
#1 ---#71 --- #26 --- #1351 out of 1507

--> if Lebron and Kobe can be compared by riiiings, why can't Horry be compared by rings to everyone when impact wise there is no one important in NBA history further away from him than the Lebron-Kobe gap?


And look who had 2 of the top7 clutchest playoffs (as in not just one shot here and there, but entire playoff clutch contribution)
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fis-tyrese-haliburton-having-the-most-clutch-postseason-by-v0-2c7lv1ddw85f1.png%3Fwidth%3D975%26format%3Dpng%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D58c224b111cdca2c76fc69fa5f0e1712d8051476

[Mirotic12]

Horry deserves to be in the Hall of Fame.

He was one of the most clutch basketball players ever. He hit so many big shots. He was also a great defender and he was very important for spreading the floor for Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan.

Without Horry, none of those 7 championship teams he was on would have won the title.

Houston made a gigantic mistake when they traded Horry for Barkley.

[UcanUwill]

I mean either he’s the luckiest player on the planet or he has enough of a residual impact...

A bit of both. He was a high level role player, who stepped up at the right times, particularly in the playoffs. Essentially, he established himself as a high level role player early on, and therefore contenders consistently wanted him on their teams. So he earned his way onto good teams by reputation in an era where only role players moved teams frequently, and had a lot of luck of getting onto the right contending teams. But we can't forget that he is still a role player. He wasn't suddenly going to carry teams that did not have star power above him in the pecking order.

One of these days someone is going to have to actual define "role player". Because saying someone is or isn't an all time great because of that and that alone is absurd.

The 29 year XRAPM data has Horry in the 99th percentile on defenses and the 95th overall. This despite missing some of his best years in Houston and having all his worst years (though as we know he's not alone in that with a 29 year sample). It's key to point out, Horry in his prime was not some guy filling in a small role on his teams. He was a foundational building block on defense. No, he was Hakeem or Duncan, but after those two he was as central to any of his teams defenses as anyone if not the next more important guy.

Offensively, today we might see the stretch 4 as a somewhat generic role type. But when Horry did it, he was revolutionizing the game. And the fact he stepped it up in the playoffs was all the more important and telling.

If Horry had played in the regular season like he did in the playoffs, he'd have a strong case to be ranked over a Horace Grant who's always one of the last guys in on the player comp board's top 100. Which would leave him outside the hall. But it would have him very much worthy of discussion and certainly not being dismissed by some absurd term that doesn't have any real meaning.

But most importantly, Horry was not just some guy filling a role. Teams were built around his unique talent in a way honestly half the hall guys I'm not sure you can say did. There were far more volume scorers in NBA history and elite defenders who could guard inside and out while stretching the floor before we knew that mattered so much. Throw in he could put the ball on the floor or post up in a pinch and even made some decent reads passing. This was a complete player.

No, you are right, Horry was good, I didn't want to say he was bad, but he was not one of those players who I thought would be a huge odd swinger, altho in moments, we could argue he was probably exactly that. But not like I thought Horry was the guy who put Lakers or Spurs over the top, he was a role player who did have legendary career.