The weaknesses of the new team, and some good things too

[Gant]

Impact players out from last year: Tatum, Porzingis, Holiday, Horford, Kornet. That's a lot of OUT.

Their inbox replacements so far: Boucher, Garza, Simons, Minott, Gonzalez.


Here are some areas of concern for the new roster:

1) Defense
This is THE biggest downgrade. The Celtics used to start 5 guys who could all play D, then sub a few more and still have no weak spots on that end. No more. The free switching, every area is covered defense might be more like a colander than a bowl now.

2) Five out offense
With the exception of Kornet, they 5-outed through the whole rotation before. That will happen less. For the opposition defense, there will be someone to drop off of more often.

3) Double Bigs
It was a staple last year. This time around the bigs are fewer and will have question marks embroidered into their jersey sleeves to begin the season. They'll play a lot of Boucher/Queta and Boucher/Garza, but that's just standard 4/5 stuff and not the twin towery lineups we're used to.*
* another center could easily be added before opening night.

4) Getting Pummeled Physically
This one's an offshoot of no more double bigs. Not only are there only two big centers now, there is only one true power forward. It's a league of giants, filled with teams that can go with two big men at the same time. The Celtics are often going to be in a position of countering that with someone small or inexperienced at 4 like Hauser, Minott, or Walsh.


Here's some good things about the new roster:

1) Offense
If Simons stays, or I should say IF Simons stays, the offense is pretty potent. Brown, White, Simons, Pritchard, and Hauser can all score. Too bad you can't put them on the floor together. Boucher can score too though, and so can Garza. That leads to another potential weakness...
...area of concern #5: When you put your best scorers on the floor you might either get overwhelmed with size or have a hole in the middle defensively.

2) Hope
Here's the most hopeful scenario I've got. Queta takes a massive leap. He becomes really good; better than anyone ever thought. Faster, wiser, with a more diversified offense. This not super likely but it is possible. Now the colander is looking more bowl-like again. You can score, rebound, match up with big opponents, and sometimes play both ends. No pressure Neemias.

3) Development
It's the season of opportunities. Young and previously forgotten players like Minott, Garza, Walsh, Scheierman, Gonzalez and others have a boulevard-wide chance to make their mark. Fun!

4). A New Style
There will be a faster offense with a lot more cutting and movement. The threes will still fly, but everything else will feel different.


No one knows how this will end up: ping pongs, play-in, playoffs, or pitchforks and paper bags. It is really interesting though. It's a season like no other, a season largely crafted to set up the next one.

[brackdan70]

I do think Queta will take a leap. I don’t see him all of a sudden becoming a top 5 center, but I think he has the skills to be a serviceable starter and maybe more.
I am really high on Minott. Maybe delusional lol, but I think has the body and length to play plenty of of PF. Given an opportunity I could see him really contributing.

[Fierce1]

I do think Queta will take a leap. I don’t see him all of a sudden becoming a top 5 center, but I think he has the skills to be a serviceable starter and maybe more.
I am really high on Minott. Maybe delusional lol, but I think has the body and length to play plenty of of PF. Given an opportunity I could see him really contributing.

You Mynot be delusional because Josh has potential.

[darrendaye]

Detail on the Double Big Downgraded Bigness:

Boucher's standing reach is 9'2.5", Queta 9'4.5", and Garza 8'11.5"....(Minott 8'11.5")
Porzingis 9'4.5", Kornet 9'6", and Horford 8'11".......Tatum 8'11"

[Fierce1]

One potential weakness is the big men.

But Brad has addressed some of the weaknesses from last season.

Getting a dynamic scoring guard like Simons is a big boost.

Drafting and adding guys that are athletic will certainly improve the pace of the offense.

What will be the biggest difference maker is getting easy baskets from cutting and fast breaks.

The Cs really didn't have those last season.

More easy baskets will lessen the reliance on the 3-point shot.

I think the Cs will surprise a lot of fans this season.

[sam_I_am]

This team will be like the 2006-7 team with Pierce after Pierce shut it down. Brown and White are better than Tony Allen and West but the front court is even worse.

Sure there is some offensive firepower so they could be kind of fun to watch but they will not be able to stop anybody. Lottery pick looks pretty likely to me. If Brown develops as a playmaker such that he can lead the offense and learn to pass out of double teams without Tatum that will really be a plus when Tatum comes back. If Walsh or some other young player develops faster that will also be a positive. A really good draft pick with major upside would be another great outcome.

I just hope that one of Garza, Boucher or Queta proves worthy to be a long term rotation player.

[Smart2Nesmith43]

I actually think the offense is going to take the biggest step back. No Tatum is going to be felt far more on that end and it's getting compounded by the loss of a ton of shooting. On defense, even if the personnel isn't as good as it used to be, you can scheme around limitations more easily in the regular season and I trust Mazzulla to hold them accountable on that end. Detroit and Miami didn't exactly have a roster full of defensive stalwarts and yet were low end top 10 defenses last season. I could see the Celtics do something similar. On the other side it's really hard to have a top 10 offense without elite shot creation which nobody in the roster can provide.

I'm not as worried about the physicality. The Celtics have brought in a bunch of guys playing for their NBA lives and the holdovers have finally have a long summer to rest up. I would be shocked if the Celtics' effort didn't ratchet up significantly this season. On the other side, teams are no longer going against the defending champs but a random team missing their best player. They are going to come in with a lot less energy. So I think that both thoe things are going to help a lot compared to last season even if the frontcourt isn't as big as it used to be.

I'm not super optimistic about Queta making a leap. He is a big that relies a ton on energy to make plays and I wonder how sustainable that is when you scale up his minutes significantly. But hopefully I'm wrong.

Finally I'm open to suggestions for what we should name Gonzalez hype train. Best I could do for now is "Gonzo for Gonzalez".

[165bows]

Simons if He’s Still Around!!!

Sighting in the wild.

[165bows]

I do think Queta will take a leap. I don’t see him all of a sudden becoming a top 5 center, but I think he has the skills to be a serviceable starter and maybe more.
I am really high on Minott. Maybe delusional lol, but I think has the body and length to play plenty of of PF. Given an opportunity I could see him really contributing.

Right, there’s this middle road with Queta where he’s just a decent NBA center who does some things pretty well and some things not well like most of them.

But if that’s the case then they are at least average at most spots outside the 4 and backup 5 and above average in some places (did someone say 6MOTY?!?!!).

Big variable with Queta outside can he be decent is just how many minutes can he play. Celtics have had elite minutes from their 3/4th centers the last year or two and that feels like those days, to put it kindly, are over. I’m not sure they even have enough bodies to play 4k center minutes right now, so maybe the tank has got some juice after all!

[redslastlaugh]

Also, some Celtics fans are dedicated Queta-Haters and I've hardly ever seen anything like it from our fanbase. The haters actively say they don't like him, he stinks and he has only some positive analytic metrics because he shares the floor with four starters of a 60 win team.

Personally, I think Queta has some strong strengths and some weaknesses too as well, but that he's a pretty promising big man. He's just never really played much. Could he break out and become a Hartenstein type of starting caliber 5-man? I absolutely think that's possible, though maybe not likely. And when I watch him, I think the good things he does stand out more than the mistakes or shortcomings.

But Neemi definitely has his haters, which is real weird imo. I think only Marcus Smart, of any recent Celtics, had Queta's % of fans who trash him and harp on the bad and do not see the good. Weird to me

I do think Queta will take a leap. I don’t see him all of a sudden becoming a top 5 center, but I think he has the skills to be a serviceable starter and maybe more.
I am really high on Minott. Maybe delusional lol, but I think has the body and length to play plenty of of PF. Given an opportunity I could see him really contributing.

Right, there’s this middle road with Queta where he’s just a decent NBA center who does some things pretty well and some things not well like most of them.

But if that’s the case then they are at least average at most spots outside the 4 and backup 5 and above average in some places (did someone say 6MOTY?!?!!).

Big variable with Queta outside can he be decent is just how many minutes can he play. Celtics have had elite minutes from their 3/4th centers the last year or two and that feels like those days, to put it kindly, are over. I’m not sure they even have enough bodies to play 4k center minutes right now, so maybe the tank has got some juice after all!

[Gant]

Also, some Celtics fans are dedicated Queta-Haters and I've hardly ever seen anything like it from our fanbase. The haters actively say they don't like him, he stinks and he has only some positive analytic metrics because he shares the floor with four starters of a 60 win team.

Personally, I think Queta has some strong strengths and some weaknesses too as well, but that he's a pretty promising big man. He's just never really played much. Could he break out and become a Hartenstein type of starting caliber 5-man? I absolutely think that's possible, though maybe not likely. And when I watch him, I think the good things he does stand out more than the mistakes or shortcomings.

But Neemi definitely has his haters, which is real weird imo. I think only Marcus Smart, of any recent Celtics, had Queta's % of fans who trash him and harp on the bad and do not see the good. Weird to me

I do think Queta will take a leap. I don’t see him all of a sudden becoming a top 5 center, but I think he has the skills to be a serviceable starter and maybe more.
I am really high on Minott. Maybe delusional lol, but I think has the body and length to play plenty of of PF. Given an opportunity I could see him really contributing.

Right, there’s this middle road with Queta where he’s just a decent NBA center who does some things pretty well and some things not well like most of them.

But if that’s the case then they are at least average at most spots outside the 4 and backup 5 and above average in some places (did someone say 6MOTY?!?!!).

Big variable with Queta outside can he be decent is just how many minutes can he play. Celtics have had elite minutes from their 3/4th centers the last year or two and that feels like those days, to put it kindly, are over. I’m not sure they even have enough bodies to play 4k center minutes right now, so maybe the tank has got some juice after all!

People really do like to hate. It might be unresolved childhood trauma or dreams unrealized or something.

[31to6]

ping pongs, play-in, playoffs, or pitchforks and paper bags.

This is awesome, and should be on T-shirts left on every seat for opening night at the Garden

Re: this season -- idk. I am a believer that Queta will be pretty good, and that if Jaylen, Derrick, Payton, Sam and (hellll yeah) Chris Boucher are healthy, this team can be in the playoff hunt to the tune of fighting for the 4th seed (probably not getting it). We know Joe will coach his tail off, and hopefully someone like Minott, Garza, Baylor, or even Hugo surprises us.

But conceptually I'd rather they get like the 10th best lottery odds, so we shall see what we shall see!

[3pt %]

Somewhere between a play-in team and a low lottery team I think. One of the more interesting seasons in a while, even if the wins won't be there.

[Fierce1]

Remove Simons and his potential 20 ppg then I would agree the Cs would be a play-in or lottery team.

We've seen White and PP go for 40 points each.

More scoring from cutting to the basket and getting easy buckets from fast breaks will put this Cs team at the top 4 of the east.

Regular season is about offense.
If the Cs have Simons then this Cs team will be surprisingly good.

[Dogen]

The Celtics have 8 new players (including 3 new 2-Ways) since the championship season. That's a lot of player turnover.

Assuming Simons stays with the team at least until the deadline, are there any other big men FA's that could sign without putting the team back over the apron?

For starters, I can't help but wonder if Al Horford is holding out to see what Brad can do, but would be willing to sign a sweat heart deal for The C's. Maybe unlikely, but possible. Thing is, does it make sense for him to come in for a year, make the team marginally better, but not enough to compete deep in the playoffs, and then by the end of the season he's 40 and really ready to retire.

Charles Bassey made a name for himself in summer league, but is oft-injured and maybe not an upgrade to Queta.

Mo Bamba heading to Europe? He'd be the consolation prize after losing Luke. Apparently the Spurs had some interest in him as a backup. He's had a few moments and I recall him hitting some threes, but wouldn't really move the needle much, and probably prefers to make more money overseas.

Slim pickins out there.

[Gant]

The Celtics have 8 new players (including 3 new 2-Ways) since the championship season. That's a lot of player turnover.

Assuming Simons stays with the team at least until the deadline, are there any other big men FA's that could sign without putting the team back over the apron?

For starters, I can't help but wonder if Al Horford is holding out to see what Brad can do, but would be willing to sign a sweat heart deal for The C's. Maybe unlikely, but possible. Thing is, does it make sense for him to come in for a year, make the team marginally better, but not enough to compete deep in the playoffs, and then by the end of the season he's 40 and really ready to retire.

Charles Bassey made a name for himself in summer league, but is oft-injured and maybe not an upgrade to Queta.

Mo Bamba heading to Europe? He'd be the consolation prize after losing Luke. Apparently the Spurs had some interest in him as a backup. He's had a few moments and I recall him hitting some threes, but wouldn't really move the needle much, and probably prefers to make more money overseas.

Slim pickins out there.

An upgrade to Queta for the minimum does not seem possible. The best guys available might be Bassey and Simmons. They reportedly preferred Boucher to Simmons, but that isn't to say they're not open to both.

Along with having a limited offensive game, Bassey's injury history is a major reason he's available. His production is very good, but he couldn't stay healthy. He'd probably be on the Spurs still if not for the physical setbacks, and could still end up getting Boston's final spot.

Bassey might be waiting on Horford, who's waiting on Kuminga. Horford's 99% gone, but the Celtics could very well want to keep that 1% open and not make a further move until post-Al. They have said things that make you think Bassey's still in play even though they've not rushed to sign him.

[Celts17Pride]

Remove Simons and his potential 20 ppg then I would agree the Cs would be a play-in or lottery team.

We've seen White and PP go for 40 points each.

More scoring from cutting to the basket and getting easy buckets from fast breaks will put this Cs team at the top 4 of the east.

Regular season is about offense.
If the Cs have Simons then this Cs team will be surprisingly good.

So the season hinges on Simons? Got to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen in awhile.

[phincsfan]

The potential weakness could be Mazzulla.

Only 2 superstars starting (JB and White).

The last two seasons he had 6 veteran superstars to mix and match every game. When Porzingis was out he always had AL.

He'll be forced to expand the rotation, but will he stick with that consistently in order to develop guys?

The bold could be very good for the future.

[Fierce1]

Remove Simons and his potential 20 ppg then I would agree the Cs would be a play-in or lottery team.

We've seen White and PP go for 40 points each.

More scoring from cutting to the basket and getting easy buckets from fast breaks will put this Cs team at the top 4 of the east.

Regular season is about offense.
If the Cs have Simons then this Cs team will be surprisingly good.

So the season hinges on Simons? Got to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen in awhile.

I did not say the season hinges on Simons.

What's dumb is you jumping to conclusions.

So a guy that's a 20 ppg scorer will not make a difference when the the Cs are missing their #1 option and his 27 ppg?

No Simons means the Cs are most likely going to win 30+ games because JB and White are not enough to offset the missing 27 ppg from JT.

What's dumb is dumping Simons for a guy like Okogie.

Maybe that's why Brad has not been able to trade Simons because Brad does not do dumb trades.

[Celts17Pride]

Remove Simons and his potential 20 ppg then I would agree the Cs would be a play-in or lottery team.

We've seen White and PP go for 40 points each.

More scoring from cutting to the basket and getting easy buckets from fast breaks will put this Cs team at the top 4 of the east.

Regular season is about offense.
If the Cs have Simons then this Cs team will be surprisingly good.

So the season hinges on Simons? Got to be one of the dumbest statements I've seen in awhile.

I did not say the season hinges on Simons.

What's dumb is you jumping to conclusions.

So a guy that's a 20 ppg scorer will not make a difference when the the Cs are missing their #1 option and his 27 ppg?

No Simons means the Cs are most likely going to win 30+ games because JB and White are not enough to offset the missing 27 ppg from JT.

What's dumb is dumping Simons for a guy like Okogie.

Maybe that's why Brad has not been able to trade Simons because Brad does not do dumb trades.

You said the Celtics are a lottery team without Simons, the guy the Celtics have been trying to trade since the day they got him. Simons is probably not even going to be on the team by mid September.