Kuminga to SAC, is there a middle ground?

[Sactowndog]

I don't mind the Monk + Lotto protected 1st offer.

Maybe try to get a 3rd team who wants Monk cause I don't really like his fit with GS. Maybe try to talk the protections down just a bit (top 8/10), but it feels close imo.

The problem is that offer locks you into having to move someone else to avoid the hard cap.

Really with Lacob involved there is no acceptable offer. Kuminga is going to want control of his final destination and the QO gives him that control. Dubs misplayed their hand and he is going to walk for virtually nothing next year.

Still want to see what Kings fans are willing to put money on Kuminga taking the QO. Start a betting pool.

Pretty much every analyst to a man (or women) have said, while it’s an option, they don’t think he’ll do it. It’s too much money left on the table that he won’t recoup.

The offer will get negotiated up though. This is just Lacob’s MO -start with a stupid initial offer before reality hits.

This is the guy who, as Steph f’in Curry was about to hit FA after coming off that discount contract cause of his ankle issues and was winning titles and MVPs, had the audacity to ask if they needed to give him the full max. Bob Myers had to politely (while I’m sure resisting the urge to smack the *#$& out of him) tell him yes, you give Steph Curry the max and don’t you dare offer him a penny less.

Heck Kawakami is Lacob’s puppet and even his article mentioned GS would need to compromise and give Kuminga more guaranteed money

At this point according to Slator that is the direction it’s heading.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/report-warriors-receive-another-new-jonathan-kuminga-update-2111909

[gswhoops]

The problem is that offer locks you into having to move someone else to avoid the hard cap.

Really with Lacob involved there is no acceptable offer. Kuminga is going to want control of his final destination and the QO gives him that control. Dubs misplayed their hand and he is going to walk for virtually nothing next year.

Still want to see what Kings fans are willing to put money on Kuminga taking the QO. Start a betting pool.

Pretty much every analyst to a man (or women) have said, while it’s an option, they don’t think he’ll do it. It’s too much money left on the table that he won’t recoup.

The offer will get negotiated up though. This is just Lacob’s MO -start with a stupid initial offer before reality hits.

This is the guy who, as Steph f’in Curry was about to hit FA after coming off that discount contract cause of his ankle issues and was winning titles and MVPs, had the audacity to ask if they needed to give him the full max. Bob Myers had to politely (while I’m sure resisting the urge to smack the *#$& out of him) tell him yes, you give Steph Curry the max and don’t you dare offer him a penny less.

Heck Kawakami is Lacob’s puppet and even his article mentioned GS would need to compromise and give Kuminga more guaranteed money

At this point according to Slator that is the direction it’s heading.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/report-warriors-receive-another-new-jonathan-kuminga-update-2111909

On the one hand it would be idiotic for Kuminga to turn down 2 years $45 million to take the QO. On the other, his agent does appear to be an idiot. So.....what happens next is anyone's guess

[NW]

The problem is that offer locks you into having to move someone else to avoid the hard cap.

Really with Lacob involved there is no acceptable offer. Kuminga is going to want control of his final destination and the QO gives him that control. Dubs misplayed their hand and he is going to walk for virtually nothing next year.

Still want to see what Kings fans are willing to put money on Kuminga taking the QO. Start a betting pool.

Pretty much every analyst to a man (or women) have said, while it’s an option, they don’t think he’ll do it. It’s too much money left on the table that he won’t recoup.

The offer will get negotiated up though. This is just Lacob’s MO -start with a stupid initial offer before reality hits.

This is the guy who, as Steph f’in Curry was about to hit FA after coming off that discount contract cause of his ankle issues and was winning titles and MVPs, had the audacity to ask if they needed to give him the full max. Bob Myers had to politely (while I’m sure resisting the urge to smack the *#$& out of him) tell him yes, you give Steph Curry the max and don’t you dare offer him a penny less.

Heck Kawakami is Lacob’s puppet and even his article mentioned GS would need to compromise and give Kuminga more guaranteed money

At this point according to Slator that is the direction it’s heading.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/report-warriors-receive-another-new-jonathan-kuminga-update-2111909

It’s his only leverage. No shock that he’s not budging on it-nor should he. But if it was that appealing, why hasn’t he taken the QO yet? Both sides still in a state down and will be

[longfellow44]

Still want to see what Kings fans are willing to put money on Kuminga taking the QO. Start a betting pool.

Pretty much every analyst to a man (or women) have said, while it’s an option, they don’t think he’ll do it. It’s too much money left on the table that he won’t recoup.

The offer will get negotiated up though. This is just Lacob’s MO -start with a stupid initial offer before reality hits.

This is the guy who, as Steph f’in Curry was about to hit FA after coming off that discount contract cause of his ankle issues and was winning titles and MVPs, had the audacity to ask if they needed to give him the full max. Bob Myers had to politely (while I’m sure resisting the urge to smack the *#$& out of him) tell him yes, you give Steph Curry the max and don’t you dare offer him a penny less.

Heck Kawakami is Lacob’s puppet and even his article mentioned GS would need to compromise and give Kuminga more guaranteed money

At this point according to Slator that is the direction it’s heading.

https://www.newsweek.com/sports/nba/report-warriors-receive-another-new-jonathan-kuminga-update-2111909

On the one hand it would be idiotic for Kuminga to turn down 2 years $45 million to take the QO. On the other, his agent does appear to be an idiot. So.....what happens next is anyone's guess

I disagree. And this isn't from the stand point of me as a kings fan wanting Kuminga on my team. As I said in the other thread the money difference is significant but it isn't as large as most people are making it out to be, I would imagine kuminga's worst case scenario next season would be the MLE, but more likely he gets into the 22-25 million range, so really the only loss would be the difference in his salary this season, more if only got the MLE.

But the point is Kuminga seems pretty set on the idea of not being used by the Warriors and letting someone else dictate his career trajectory. It is in the Warriors best interest to trade him and maximize what they could get, which could result in Kuminga ending up in a less favorable role on another team making it even harder for him to earn a bigger pay day going forward. Especially if the team that he is traded to views him as something other than a potential star.

If Kuminga has control of his career and where he ends up, he has the best chance to maximize his future, and that includes earnings on future contracts not just the next contract. I'm not saying it isn't risky, but I am saying that the warriors could really screw him over by trading him to a team that views him as a role player, which would drastically reduce his future earning potential.

[Texas Chuck]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

[longfellow44]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

[SNPA]

Question - if he takes the QO can he later wave his NTC? Could that be a backdoor way of getting to a team he wants if all parties agreed to it?

[SacTown Kings]

Question - if he takes the QO can he later wave his NTC? Could that be a backdoor way of getting to a team he wants if all parties agreed to it?

Why would he waive his NTC? If he wants to control where he goes he then he would want to keep his NTC.

Edit: I think I misunderstood what you were asking. He would want to keep the NTC until there is a deal to a team he prefers then he would waive it.

[longfellow44]

Question - if he takes the QO can he later wave his NTC? Could that be a backdoor way of getting to a team he wants if all parties agreed to it?

Yeah if he is under the qualifying offer then he can waive the ntc whenever he wants.

I also wanted to point out that We now have players (booker and shai)making 70+ million per season in the NBA. I think spending 25 million on a player with high potential isn't unreasonable.

[parsnips33]

Somebody show him Tatum's stats from the Olympics

[Texas Chuck]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

I think you didn't read my post in full because you are leaving out a part of it. I'll highlight it for you.

Really only one team is offering it now, the Kings. The Warriors are offering to pay him more this year to have an option year, they aren't guaranteeing him multiple years at that number.

But if he plays out the QO for a coach who doesn't like or trust him, its hard for me to see him having a big market in a year. Especially if the Warriors will continue to play hardball on a S&T.

but I do get the idea of wanting to get out ahead of a future King and assign them a higher value than is warranted so if the Kings do give up a first round pick for the right to pay him 3 or 4 times what any other team will pay him, you will have pre-justified it.

[SNPA]

Question - if he takes the QO can he later wave his NTC? Could that be a backdoor way of getting to a team he wants if all parties agreed to it?

Why would he waive his NTC? If he wants to control where he goes he then he would want to keep his NTC.

I’m trying to find out if he could wave the NTC once GS makes a deal to a team he wants. He’d keep the NTC if GS tries to send him somewhere he didn’t want to go.

[SacTown Kings]

Question - if he takes the QO can he later wave his NTC? Could that be a backdoor way of getting to a team he wants if all parties agreed to it?

Why would he waive his NTC? If he wants to control where he goes he then he would want to keep his NTC.

I’m trying to find out if he could wave the NTC once GS makes a deal to a team he wants. He’d keep the NTC if GS tries to send him somewhere he didn’t want to go.

Ah gotcha. Yes that is how it would work.

[SacTown Kings]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

I think you didn't read my post in full because you are leaving out a part of it. I'll highlight it for you.

Really only one team is offering it now, the Kings. The Warriors are offering to pay him more this year to have an option year, they aren't guaranteeing him multiple years at that number.

But if he plays out the QO for a coach who doesn't like or trust him, its hard for me to see him having a big market in a year. Especially if the Warriors will continue to play hardball on a S&T.

but I do get the idea of wanting to get out ahead of a future King and assign them a higher value than is warranted so if the Kings do give up a first round pick for the right to pay him 3 or 4 times what any other team will pay him, you will have pre-justified it.

But is the "option" a player option or team option. I thought it was a team option which isn't very appealing to JK, plus he loses his NTC.

[SNPA]

Why would he waive his NTC? If he wants to control where he goes he then he would want to keep his NTC.

I’m trying to find out if he could wave the NTC once GS makes a deal to a team he wants. He’d keep the NTC if GS tries to send him somewhere he didn’t want to go.

Ah gotcha. Yes that is how it would work.

He is signing the QO then. It gives him control. Control is worth more than the gap from the QO to the one year guarantee.

[Crazy-Canuck]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

Technically yes, but not in reality.

Gsw is offering 2/45 with the condition of him waving his ntc. Big detail. We dont want to keep you, and we think you have more value on an expiring deal.

Kings are offering 3/80 + contracts/players that the Warriors do not want. We will pay what jk what he wants just as long as the warriors take a 20M contract off our books.

So both offers have important conditions attached. No team is creating space to offer jk a 20M+ per year deal.

[SacTown Kings]

I’m trying to find out if he could wave the NTC once GS makes a deal to a team he wants. He’d keep the NTC if GS tries to send him somewhere he didn’t want to go.

Ah gotcha. Yes that is how it would work.

He is signing the QO then. It gives him control. Control is worth more than the gap from the QO to the one year guarantee.

That is what I think he will do too.

[longfellow44]

I think the suns also offered 4 years 90 million.

[longfellow44]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

Technically yes, but not in reality.

Gsw is offering 2/45 with the condition of him waving his ntc. Big detail. We dont want to keep you, and we think you have more value on an expiring deal.

Kings are offering 3/80 + contracts/players that the Warriors do not want. We will pay what jk what he wants just as long as the warriors take a 20M contract off our books.

So both offers have important conditions attached. No team is creating space to offer jk a 20M+ per year deal.

If the kings did clear enough cap for kuminga at a reasonable price like 22-25 million, Golden State will just match and then the kings will have wasted assets to clear space and we wouldn't have another target this season with that cap space.

[Sactowndog]

No idea how Kuminga's floor in a year is $22-25M. But taking the QO wouldn't be about maximizing money as much as it would be wresting control of his career away from the Warriors. Which certainly makes sense if you are willing to gamble on yourself. But good chance he never sees the money he gives up. He would need major progression for me to see a bidding war driving him up to a multiyear deal of that size.

That is his floor right now because there are 2 teams actively offering that.

I think you didn't read my post in full because you are leaving out a part of it. I'll highlight it for you.

Really only one team is offering it now, the Kings. The Warriors are offering to pay him more this year to have an option year, they aren't guaranteeing him multiple years at that number.

But if he plays out the QO for a coach who doesn't like or trust him, its hard for me to see him having a big market in a year. Especially if the Warriors will continue to play hardball on a S&T.

but I do get the idea of wanting to get out ahead of a future King and assign them a higher value than is warranted so if the Kings do give up a first round pick for the right to pay him 3 or 4 times what any other team will pay him, you will have pre-justified it.

I think he will have a market regardless if only because people with his physical dimensions are so scarce he will have multiple teams chasing him. If he were a guard it would be a different story as they are a dime a dozen. 6’8” dudes with 7’ wingspan get paid