Bears 12.0

[jnrjr79]

I tend to feel the same. I don't think he wants Caleb to look terrible if he can avoid it. The fact that so many other 1st teamers sat out changes my view a little.

My enthusiasm from the game came from Booker's play. I had wondered if he had improved over last year...hadn't heard much out of camp on him. Good play aside, Booker looked great last preseason too. I would be thrilled if this level of play carries over.

I'm rooting hard for Wheeler to make the final squad. He did look really good.

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

The Bears protected something like 18 starters. The starting quarterback is going to receive the most protection. You may not agree with Johnson’s decision to approach it that way, which is fair. You’re right that Caleb could use more reps in the abstract. I’m sure Johnson agrees, but 1) he’s got to weigh that against injury risk, and 2) if you’re not putting him out there with 4 of the 5 starting linemen, that would be basically insane. So, if you want to play Caleb, you really need to have the full offensive starting unit out there ideally, but minimally the line to protect him. It’s unserious trolling to suggest that Caleb being “not ready” factored into it, given how widespread the benchings were.

[dougthonus]

I tend to feel the same. I don't think he wants Caleb to look terrible if he can avoid it. The fact that so many other 1st teamers sat out changes my view a little.

My enthusiasm from the game came from Booker's play. I had wondered if he had improved over last year...hadn't heard much out of camp on him. Good play aside, Booker looked great last preseason too. I would be thrilled if this level of play carries over.

I'm rooting hard for Wheeler to make the final squad. He did look really good.

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

I don't know enough about the NFL to know, but I wonder how valuable preseason reps are.

My fake argument with myself:
Dude, You are probably taking 10x as many reps in a normal practice as you are in a preseason game.

Yeah, but you are taking them all against the same defense, preseason gives you different looks

But those preseason teams are often playing backups and only showing their vanilla defense anyway

Okay, but he still needs all the reps he can get

But why take these reps where he is more likely to be hurt than practice, and you're still only going up against vanilla defenses?

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

I could make the opposite case in 20 minutes though if my mood changes

[nomorezorro]

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

this to me is so clearly the dynamic that's going on here. fans are coming at it from a place of "i want to see this for myself" and "how could taking more reps not be better" and it melds together to form a conclusive "playing in the preseason is a meaningful benefit for a player"

but like...these guys are professional football players. they're practicing playing football a lot. how much of a difference could taking 8 snaps in a "game setting" against a vanilla defense really mean.

[jnrjr79]

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

I don't know enough about the NFL to know, but I wonder how valuable preseason reps are.

My fake argument with myself:
Dude, You are probably taking 10x as many reps in a normal practice as you are in a preseason game.

Yeah, but you are taking them all against the same defense, preseason gives you different looks

But those preseason teams are often playing backups and only showing their vanilla defense anyway

Okay, but he still needs all the reps he can get

But why take these reps where he is more likely to be hurt than practice, and you're still only going up against vanilla defenses?

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

I could make the opposite case in 20 minutes though if my mood changes

The other factor here is the Bears were just coming off joint practices with the Dolphins, so Caleb was not actually going up against his own defense. It’s been fairly common in recent years for some coaches to say they got what they needed out of the joint practices and therefore didn’t need to have some player play in the subsequent preseason game.

[fleet]

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

I don't know enough about the NFL to know, but I wonder how valuable preseason reps are.

My fake argument with myself:
Dude, You are probably taking 10x as many reps in a normal practice as you are in a preseason game.

Yeah, but you are taking them all against the same defense, preseason gives you different looks

But those preseason teams are often playing backups and only showing their vanilla defense anyway

Okay, but he still needs all the reps he can get

But why take these reps where he is more likely to be hurt than practice, and you're still only going up against vanilla defenses?

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

I could make the opposite case in 20 minutes though if my mood changes

The other factor here is the Bears were just coming off joint practices with the Dolphins, so Caleb was not actually going up against his own defense. It’s been fairly common in recent years for some coaches to say they got what they needed out of the joint practices and therefore didn’t need to have some player play in the subsequent preseason game.

There was an opinion posted by T Armstead that Caleb was struggling against the Miami defense, and running into “sacks”. If that’s the case, he has things to improve on. How you do that is up for debate.

Read on Twitter

I realize you posted earlier that I may be disagreeing with the coach on how he is handling this. I do not. I’m only disagreeing with the explanation that the Bears are putting out there that Caleb is getting better by reps in practice more than in a game itself. There’s a limit. It sounds more like a story for what is imo more likely. That Caleb has not cleared whatever hurdle yet that Ben wants to see in order to progress into a game. Ben will stop a practice before he skips a step. Ben may not have liked what he saw in practice actually, and he wants to nail it down before the next step.

[sco]

I don't know enough about the NFL to know, but I wonder how valuable preseason reps are.

My fake argument with myself:
Dude, You are probably taking 10x as many reps in a normal practice as you are in a preseason game.

Yeah, but you are taking them all against the same defense, preseason gives you different looks

But those preseason teams are often playing backups and only showing their vanilla defense anyway

Okay, but he still needs all the reps he can get

But why take these reps where he is more likely to be hurt than practice, and you're still only going up against vanilla defenses?

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

I could make the opposite case in 20 minutes though if my mood changes

The other factor here is the Bears were just coming off joint practices with the Dolphins, so Caleb was not actually going up against his own defense. It’s been fairly common in recent years for some coaches to say they got what they needed out of the joint practices and therefore didn’t need to have some player play in the subsequent preseason game.

There was an opinion posted by T Armstead that Caleb was struggling against the Miami defense, and running into “sacks”. If that’s the case, he has things to improve on. How you do that is up for debate.

Read on Twitter

I realize you posted earlier that I may be disagreeing with the coach on how he is handling this. I do not. I’m only disagreeing with the explanation that the Bears are putting out there that Caleb is getting better by reps in practice more than in a game itself. There’s a limit. It sounds more like a story for what is imo more likely. That Caleb has not cleared whatever hurdle yet that Ben wants to see in order to progress into a game. Ben will stop a practice before he skips a step. Ben may not have liked what he saw in practice actually, and he wants to nail it down before the next step.

The conspiracy theory is that BJ, like you suggest, saw that Caleb was clearly having problems with the MIA defense and was likely to have the same problems again (until he has practice time to work on the issue he saw)...so BJ didn't need to see that in a game and Caleb didn't need to take additional risk in a problematic situation...so BJ decides to not play Caleb, and to somewhat disguise this, he doesn't play 18 other starters. Honestly, I have no problem with the move if that was the case.

[fleet]

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

I don't know enough about the NFL to know, but I wonder how valuable preseason reps are.

My fake argument with myself:
Dude, You are probably taking 10x as many reps in a normal practice as you are in a preseason game.

Yeah, but you are taking them all against the same defense, preseason gives you different looks

But those preseason teams are often playing backups and only showing their vanilla defense anyway

Okay, but he still needs all the reps he can get

But why take these reps where he is more likely to be hurt than practice, and you're still only going up against vanilla defenses?

I think in the end, I land on preseason meaning more to fans than players, because fans get to see it but don't get to see practice every day. In that sense, the preseason gives us some feeling about a player that we only get through the rumor mill otherwise, and we want to be able to see it with our own eyes. I'm not sure that there's really a big developmental aspect at play though.

I could make the opposite case in 20 minutes though if my mood changes

I think there’s way less of importance for preseason action to individual positions on either line for example, than for a quarterback particularly who struggles in the structure of an offense, trying to learn the system and get into a rhythm with receivers and pre snap reads. You open the season against Brian Flores in a divisional game. Getting your young quarterback prepared quickly could be key, rather than ramping up in a non competitive year. The Bears want to win, and it’s not out of their wheelhouse, theoretically. Again, how this is done is debatable. And the timing it is done is debatable. But the rules are different for veterans than for virtual rookies being built up brick by brick. If this was the only preseason game, my bet is that Caleb would’ve played. Because it probably does matter.

[jnrjr79]

The other factor here is the Bears were just coming off joint practices with the Dolphins, so Caleb was not actually going up against his own defense. It’s been fairly common in recent years for some coaches to say they got what they needed out of the joint practices and therefore didn’t need to have some player play in the subsequent preseason game.

There was an opinion posted by T Armstead that Caleb was struggling against the Miami defense, and running into “sacks”. If that’s the case, he has things to improve on. How you do that is up for debate.

Read on Twitter

I realize you posted earlier that I may be disagreeing with the coach on how he is handling this. I do not. I’m only disagreeing with the explanation that the Bears are putting out there that Caleb is getting better by reps in practice more than in a game itself. There’s a limit. It sounds more like a story for what is imo more likely. That Caleb has not cleared whatever hurdle yet that Ben wants to see in order to progress into a game. Ben will stop a practice before he skips a step. Ben may not have liked what he saw in practice actually, and he wants to nail it down before the next step.

The conspiracy theory is that BJ, like you suggest, saw that Caleb was clearly having problems with the MIA defense and was likely to have the same problems again (until he has practice time to work on the issue he saw)...so BJ didn't need to see that in a game and Caleb didn't need to take additional risk in a problematic situation...so BJ decides to not play Caleb, and to somewhat disguise this, he doesn't play 18 other starters. Honestly, I have no problem with the move if that was the case.

The notion that Ben Johnson would bench *18* players to cover up wanting to wait, what, one more week to deploy Caleb is so ridiculous it does not merit discussion.

[fleet]

There was an opinion posted by T Armstead that Caleb was struggling against the Miami defense, and running into “sacks”. If that’s the case, he has things to improve on. How you do that is up for debate.

Read on Twitter

I realize you posted earlier that I may be disagreeing with the coach on how he is handling this. I do not. I’m only disagreeing with the explanation that the Bears are putting out there that Caleb is getting better by reps in practice more than in a game itself. There’s a limit. It sounds more like a story for what is imo more likely. That Caleb has not cleared whatever hurdle yet that Ben wants to see in order to progress into a game. Ben will stop a practice before he skips a step. Ben may not have liked what he saw in practice actually, and he wants to nail it down before the next step.

The conspiracy theory is that BJ, like you suggest, saw that Caleb was clearly having problems with the MIA defense and was likely to have the same problems again (until he has practice time to work on the issue he saw)...so BJ didn't need to see that in a game and Caleb didn't need to take additional risk in a problematic situation...so BJ decides to not play Caleb, and to somewhat disguise this, he doesn't play 18 other starters. Honestly, I have no problem with the move if that was the case.

The notion that Ben Johnson would bench *18* players to cover up wanting to wait, what, one more week to deploy Caleb is so ridiculous it does not merit discussion.

Read on Twitter

I doubt that a plan for players playing is always a wholistic plan. Preseason normally has a lot of veterans not playing the first preseason game. The quarterback discussion about when to play them is likely nuanced to the point where it’s impossible to have a general discussion about it. Caleb is learning a new, detailed offense. And by all accounts, not particularly well yet. If he was able to benefit from playing without compromising the learning process, there’s a good case to be made by playing him. You can wait, and that’s fine. But in no way do I believe that practice reps will substitute well.

[Bulls69]

My whole thing is if there is irrational exuberance out there for Bagent, there is also irrational negativity. There is no empirical reason to place limits on Bagent as far as have been placed by some people for some reason. My take is, they haven’t seen enough to be so definitive

I dunno. Is "he's a backup QB at best and that is likely all he will ever be" really irrational?

I don't get it folks keep pushing Tyson as a starter in my eyes he is a career backup.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[Betta Bulleavit]

I tend to feel the same. I don't think he wants Caleb to look terrible if he can avoid it. The fact that so many other 1st teamers sat out changes my view a little.

My enthusiasm from the game came from Booker's play. I had wondered if he had improved over last year...hadn't heard much out of camp on him. Good play aside, Booker looked great last preseason too. I would be thrilled if this level of play carries over.

I'm rooting hard for Wheeler to make the final squad. He did look really good.

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

Whether or not the reps could have been beneficial is a legitimate debate. However, 3/4 of the guys you mentioned are rookies that aren’t exactly guaranteed to start. So playing them makes sense in the broader scheme of things. But the idea that Caleb didn’t get the reps because BJ doesn’t think he’s ready is a bit more of an assumption than I’d be willing to make at this point. And as another poster mentioned, Williams performed pretty well in what was said to be a pretty spirited joint practice on Friday.

[Susan]

Read on Twitter

[TheJordanRule]

Read on Twitter

Dan Weiderer annoys me, and not just because this is bad news, the kind we dread the most. This information is not specific enough. Were there problems with the OL? Did Caleb hold the ball again? Or was it a problem with his accuracy or range or processing? This is like hearing that the team lost, period. And? How did it all unfold?

[Dominator83]

I tend to feel the same. I don't think he wants Caleb to look terrible if he can avoid it. The fact that so many other 1st teamers sat out changes my view a little.

My enthusiasm from the game came from Booker's play. I had wondered if he had improved over last year...hadn't heard much out of camp on him. Good play aside, Booker looked great last preseason too. I would be thrilled if this level of play carries over.

I'm rooting hard for Wheeler to make the final squad. He did look really good.

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

Yea i mean Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase played in their preseason opener. It was because the last couple years they didn't and they started the season slow. If proven players like that aren't above pre-season work, our unproven guys most certainly aren't!

[fleet]

The other factor here is the Bears were just coming off joint practices with the Dolphins, so Caleb was not actually going up against his own defense. It’s been fairly common in recent years for some coaches to say they got what they needed out of the joint practices and therefore didn’t need to have some player play in the subsequent preseason game.

There was an opinion posted by T Armstead that Caleb was struggling against the Miami defense, and running into “sacks”. If that’s the case, he has things to improve on. How you do that is up for debate.

Read on Twitter

I realize you posted earlier that I may be disagreeing with the coach on how he is handling this. I do not. I’m only disagreeing with the explanation that the Bears are putting out there that Caleb is getting better by reps in practice more than in a game itself. There’s a limit. It sounds more like a story for what is imo more likely. That Caleb has not cleared whatever hurdle yet that Ben wants to see in order to progress into a game. Ben will stop a practice before he skips a step. Ben may not have liked what he saw in practice actually, and he wants to nail it down before the next step.

The conspiracy theory is that BJ, like you suggest, saw that Caleb was clearly having problems with the MIA defense and was likely to have the same problems again (until he has practice time to work on the issue he saw)...so BJ didn't need to see that in a game and Caleb didn't need to take additional risk in a problematic situation...so BJ decides to not play Caleb, and to somewhat disguise this, he doesn't play 18 other starters. Honestly, I have no problem with the move if that was the case.

Less of a conspiracy theory that starters didn’t play to cover for Caleb, is simply that if Ben thought Caleb was going to be ready by Ben’s checklist of prerequisites to be playing in the game, that the starters would have joined him for a series or 2. Then playing time in games 2-3 following suit according to how well things are going. We would have to check the Lions pattern to have a better idea of the way this has been played.

[fleet]

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

Yea i mean Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase played in their preseason opener. It was because the last couple years they didn't and they started the season slow. If proven players like that aren't above pre-season work, our unproven guys most certainly aren't!

IIRC, Burrow lobbied Taylor to play. Not sure. But playing PS is valued as a tool to get ready.


I imagine each team makes decisions based on perceived benefit analysis. The only classmate of Caleb’s that didn’t play was Daniels. How things are going in DC would be news to me. But Kevin OConnell and Sean Payton know what they’re doing.

[fleet]

Given that none of our starters played yesterday lends itself to the idea that this decision was more philosophical than an evaluation of readiness. It’s highly likely that BJ is simply prioritizing depth at this moment. That is to say, he and Allen are probably set on who the starters are going to be in most spots and are more concerned with the guys that are going to be backing them up.

Ozzy and Braxton played. Burden and Loveland played. The definition of starter is insignificant. Caleb Williams could have benefited from the reps. Unless he is just not ready on Ben Johnson’s terms to have played.

Whether or not the reps could have been beneficial is a legitimate debate. However, 3/4 of the guys you mentioned are rookies that aren’t exactly guaranteed to start. So playing them makes sense in the broader scheme of things. But the idea that Caleb didn’t get the reps because BJ doesn’t think he’s ready is a bit more of an assumption than I’d be willing to make at this point. And as another poster mentioned, Williams performed pretty well in what was said to be a pretty spirited joint practice on Friday.

Terron Armstead had a contrary take. And this is the latest Monday from the Sun Times:

Maybe it’ll be at the end of the week, because it sure didn’t look good Monday. The Bears practiced for a little over an hour, mainly using first-stringers who didn’t play in the 24-24 tie with the Dolphins the day before, and Williams and the starting offense were clunky.

The two aspects that needed to be cleaned up going into this week were his passing accuracy and the pre-snap glitches, and both were problems in team drills. Williams let out a yell in frustration just as the officials flagged him for a delay-of-game violation, and the practice ended with a sputtering two-minute drill in which he misfired twice in a row to an open Rome Odunze.

Those issues shouldn’t be happening anymore. Johnson said going into training camp that his expectation is for Williams to complete 70% of his passes this season — he was 33rd of 39 qualifying quarterbacks at 62.5% as a rookie last season — and, by extension, he wants him around that number in practice.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/08/11/bears-need-qb-caleb-williams-to-show-them-something-this-week-with-practice-game-vs-bills


Caleb’s delay of game penalties, accuracy and sacks need to get cleaned up. Ball is still sticking to him. Only question is how to work these problems. Ben has his own step by step process. If playing Caleb in PS is delayed, then so be it.

[fleet]

In the absence visually of improvement on the field, the knives will be out. Ben and Caleb shouldn’t care obviously, and it is what it is until this becomes past tense.

Read on Twitter

"'He's got the talent to go up, but in terms of processing ability and getting the ball out of his hands, it was the worst we played against,' a defensive coordinator said. 'He just holds the ball forever. I'm thinking, 'The ball should go right there! Throw it! Throw it!' And he did not throw it.'"

A head coach raised the alarms over Williams' processing.

"'He is definitely a 1 talent,' a head coach said. 'I just think it's going to take him longer than Jayden Daniels. He is not playing fast right now. There is something there. His processing to me was alarming watching the tape.'"

“You saw signs and ability, and I also think you saw signs and ability that scare you,” another coach said. “Nervousness in the pocket, inability to see and play on time. But I do not know yet if that was him or coaching. Parts of me wondered if you could get it done with this guy, but it’s good enough to make you think you have a chance.”

https://fansided.com/nfl/nfl-coaches-and-execs-deliver-blunt-verdict-on-caleb-williams

[dice]

in no way do I believe that practice reps will substitute well.

depends. the bears at least have a decent defense. if they're going hard in practice...how much did miami play their starters on defense?

i'm curious whether caleb is at the paired down playbook stage yet or BJ is still throwing everything at him. if it's the latter, might make some sense that he didn't play yet. although...game action would give a better indication of what he's comfortable with right now

[dice]

Not sure in what world Caleb is too good to need pre-season reps. If anything he needs the most reps in the league. This offense is gonna suck

Has it been noted that he won’t play in the preseason at all?

Idk, it’s always a great debate. Does a guy need a bunch of preseason reps against 2nd and 3rd teamers and does the potential gain outweigh the injury risk involved with playing said guy? I tend to lean slightly in the direction of increased reps for a guy like Caleb. But if you play him, you pretty much have to play the whole 1st unit.

can mostly take injury risk out of it by mainly using quick reads. the objective is to improve on things (like accuracy!), not win the game. fans would prefer to see caleb too