Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[KGdaBom]

Try reading the whole post.

I did. But nebulous other value is obviously not the cornerstone of the trade.

If you trade McDaniels, you have to get a much better player than Nembhard as your primary return.

If you trade a player like Jaden, you trade for quality, not quantity.

I am not sure I agree with that broad brush stroke statement.

McDaniels is a number 3 player on a championship team. A highly skilled role player (role being a starter who has a specific elite skill set). Us Wolves fan are very high on him.

If trading him, you either make him a part of a bigger star trade (not this scenario) or use his value to better the roster as a whole.

Nembhard is Pacers version of McDaniels. Just as a guard and not as elite.

Per my post, it is not nebulous other value - it is how much value do Pacers add that becomes a SF to backfill Jaden. Let finish the trade as an EXAMPLE…

To Pacers: McDaniels/Sasser
To Pistons: Walker/Dilly
To Wolves: Nembhard/Ausar/Pacers 1st

Assuming Pistons can be talked into trading one of their two SFs and Ausar as that SF, Wolves are left with a much more complete roster:

Gobert/Reid/Beringer
Randle/Reid
Ausar/Miller
Edwards/DDV
Nembhard/Conley

If Ausar is a lite version of Jaden and in short time become Jaden, Wolves solved their backcourt AND rounded out their roster.

You make a decent argument, but I still wouldn't do it.

[cmoss84]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

[BlacJacMac]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

That one is kind of interesting. I guess it depends on if you believe Giddey's shooting last year was real and not a contract year anomaly.

It also means Ant and McDaniels will need to be the full-time POA defenders when Giddey is in the game.

[cmoss84]

Giddey (17) Mike (17) RD (14)
Ant (30) TSJ (14) Giddey (4)
Jaden (20) Matas (20) Giddey (4) TSJ (4)
Naz (30) Jaden (10) Matas (4) Giddey (4)
Rudy (30) JB (8) Naz (5) Jaden (5)

[Klomp]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

I honestly have wondered about this idea myself in the past few weeks. Giddey fits the type of playmaker that I think Finch likes to work with, almost like a Kyle Anderson type.

[TimberKat]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

I honestly have wondered about this idea myself in the past few weeks. Giddey fits the type of playmaker that I think Finch likes to work with, almost like a Kyle Anderson type.

I feel like that is giving up too much for Giddey. Randle is still a borderline all star. Will Giddey get at least one all star appearance in his future career?

[cmoss84]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

I honestly have wondered about this idea myself in the past few weeks. Giddey fits the type of playmaker that I think Finch likes to work with, almost like a Kyle Anderson type.

I feel like that is giving up too much for Giddey. Randle is still a borderline all star. Will Giddey get at least one all star appearance in his future career?

You don't like Buzelis?
He's pretty damn good.
Giddey and Buzelis both very young and talented...and highly versatile.

[KGdaBom]

A third team would almost certainly need to be involved, but you get the idea:

MN OUT: Randle and DDV
IN: Sign and trade for Giddey + Matas

I honestly have wondered about this idea myself in the past few weeks. Giddey fits the type of playmaker that I think Finch likes to work with, almost like a Kyle Anderson type.

I feel like that is giving up too much for Giddey. Randle is still a borderline all star. Will Giddey get at least one all star appearance in his future career?

I think no for Giddey. We are giving up far too much in that deal IMO.

[Klomp]

I feel like that is giving up too much for Giddey. Randle is still a borderline all star. Will Giddey get at least one all star appearance in his future career?

My initial response to this was that Randle was a borderline all-star in the East, but how close is he really in the West?

So then I was curious what the breakdown is now of East vs. West, using The Ringer's Top 100 as a guide (last updated June 4, so pre-offseason; I won't be autocorrecting because that's too much thinking at the moment):
1-10: 5 West, 5 East
11-20: 7 West, 3 East
21-30: 6 West, 4 East
31-40: 4 West, 6 East
41-50: 6 West, 4 East
51-60: 6 West, 4 East (Randle came in here at 52)

So breaking it down at 52 overall, Randle comes in at 29th in the West and 24th in the East. All-Star teams only go 12 deep, so I'm not sure we can call him a borderline all-star using that method. And entering his age 30/31 season, how likely is it that he returns?

For those wondering, Giddey comes in at 81 on the list entering his age 23 season.

[Domejandro]

I do not see a rebuilding Chicago Bulls team treating Matas Buzelis as a throw-in for either a win-now deal or an asset-building deal. Even with a third team, that element doesn't feel coherent for them.

That aside, I would feel somewhat comfortable with swapping Julius Randle for Josh Giddey. He is a near triple-double every night, has great vision (finally someone who can throw a **** lob pass), and would pretty much solve all of Minnesota's ball-handling and facilitating woes.

Josh Giddey / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Johnny Juzang
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Jaylen Clark
Naz Reid / Joe Ingles / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Joan Beringer

2WP: Rocco Zikarsky, Tristen Newton, Enrique Freeman]

Lots of flexbility to run small-ball line-ups with Jaden McDaniels, Terrence Shannon Jr., or even Josh Giddey at Power-Forward. Definitely pretty thin in the front-court, which is concerning.

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

[cmoss84]

I do not see a rebuilding Chicago Bulls team treating Matas Buzelis as a throw-in for either a win-now deal or an asset-building deal. Even with a third team, that element doesn't feel coherent for them.

That aside, I would feel somewhat comfortable with swapping Julius Randle for Josh Giddey. He is a near triple-double every night, has great vision (finally someone who can throw a **** lob pass), and would pretty much solve all of Minnesota's ball-handling and facilitating woes.

Josh Giddey / Rob Dillingham
Anthony Edwards / Donte DiVincenzo / Johnny Juzang
Jaden McDaniels / Terrence Shannon Jr. / Jaylen Clark
Naz Reid / Joe Ingles / Leonard Miller
Rudy Gobert / Joan Beringer

2WP: Rocco Zikarsky, Tristen Newton, Enrique Freeman]

Lots of flexbility to run small-ball line-ups with Jaden McDaniels, Terrence Shannon Jr., or even Josh Giddey at Power-Forward. Definitely pretty thin in the front-court, which is concerning.

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

Agree big time on Buzelis. He's good. I think one of my biggest priorities is balancing positions and versatility. What about something like this?

Mia IN: Randle
Mia OUT: Wiggins

Chi IN: Wiggins and DDV
Chi OUT: Giddey and White

MN IN: Giddey and White
MN OUT: Randle and DDV

[Neeva]

Eh Buzelis looked mid in summer league for a second year player but it was summer league.

[shrink]

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

[Biff Cooper]

I believe Chicago said at the trade deadline that everyone was available except Buzelis. Doubt we are getting him in a trade.

[NebWolvesFan]

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

Randle knew only one team could give him a good contract and that was Minnesota. I think Randle knows that he's on the block starting in Feb 26. The writing is on the wall that Reid will be this team's long-term PF, but I could still see Randle finish out the year or maybe return in 26-27. I really think he's a good fit next to Edwards.

[Wolveswin]

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

Randle knew only one team could give him a good contract and that was Minnesota. I think Randle knows that he's on the block starting in Feb 26. The writing is on the wall that Reid will be this team's long-term PF, but I could still see Randle finish out the year or maybe return in 26-27. I really think he's a good fit next to Edwards.

I don’t think anyone is arguing Randle is a ‘good’ fit with Edwards - Randle serves his secondary scoring threat role well.

Randle is simply the most expendable asset on a team with a) limited assets and b) continual need to build around primary star Edwards. So, along with DDV and Dilly (for right player in trade), Randle will be traded at some point.

Then we add the fact Randle has a younger, now locked in core player in Reid right behind him…and writing is on the wall.

[frankenwolf]

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

Randle knew only one team could give him a good contract and that was Minnesota. I think Randle knows that he's on the block starting in Feb 26. The writing is on the wall that Reid will be this team's long-term PF, but I could still see Randle finish out the year or maybe return in 26-27. I really think he's a good fit next to Edwards.

I don’t think anyone is arguing Randle is a ‘good’ fit with Edwards - Randle serves his secondary scoring threat role well.

Randle is simply the most expendable asset on a team with a) limited assets and b) continual need to build around primary star Edwards. So, along with DDV and Dilly (for right player in trade), Randle will be traded at some point.

Then we add the fact Randle has a younger, now locked in core player in Reid right behind him…and writing is on the wall.

I agree with all of that except that they will trade Dilly. He's only coming into his second year and the assets given up and the so few minutes actually played last year means that they are invested in his future starting this season. Unless someone offers an outlandish deal, Dilly is here for the foreseeable future.

[Klomp]

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

I don't think that's been confirmed has it?

[KGdaBom]

Being honest though, I don't see a realistic world where Minnesota trades Julius Randle before the season. I get that people generally don't care about this consideration, but committing to resigning him and then immediately shipping him off would be a pretty questionable/bad look.

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

I don't think that's been confirmed has it?

I haven't heard or seen it confirmed by anyone else. Shrink normally knows his ****. Shrink inform us please.

[shrink]

When Randle accepted a contract with unusually low raises that kept him trade eligible, I think both the Wolves and Randle were signaling that a trade could happen.

I don't think that's been confirmed has it?

I haven't heard or seen it confirmed by anyone else. Shrink normally knows his ****. Shrink inform us please.

Klomp’s correct that it isn’t confirmed. All anyone has seen is “three years, $100 mil.”

Most of the speculation was that this contract would be immediately tradeable, because it didn’t include a big enough increase over the previous salary to demand a December 15th CBA trade deadline, and it didn’t include big enough raises to also mandate the December 15th restriction. Because this info hasn't been released, maybe to help Randle’s reputation, different sites are reporting it differently.