Chris Bosh's tenure in Toronto has become supremely underrated

[TheGeneral99]

He was a pathetic rebounder for his position who got bullied in the low post. Frankly, I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace vs Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Sheed could defend inside. Could you imagine Bosh trying to defend Shaq in the low post? He'd get decapitated and foul out in 10 minutes.

Bosh is without question the worst HOF in recent memory. He never scared you.

A pathetic rebounder who 12th in rebounds in 2006, finished 8th in rebounds in 2007, 8th in rebounds in 2009, and 9th in 2010.

He averaged around 10rpg in his peak, which is pretty elite in terms of rebounding.

[TerryTate]

He was a pathetic rebounder for his position who got bullied in the low post. Frankly, I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace vs Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Sheed could defend inside. Could you imagine Bosh trying to defend Shaq in the low post? He'd get decapitated and foul out in 10 minutes.

Bosh is without question the worst HOF in recent memory. He never scared you.

A pathetic rebounder who 12th in rebounds in 2006, finished 8th in rebounds in 2007, 8th in rebounds in 2009, and 9th in 2010.

He averaged around 10rpg in his peak, which is pretty elite in terms of rebounding.

In my opinion, rebounding is one of those stats that can kinda be inflated.
I don't doubt Bosh could rebound, but again the only REAL C he played with was an old JO and Rasho. Even though he was listed as a C, he played more PF during his tenured with the Raps. Just no one else on that Raptors was good a rebounding.

[TheGeneral99]

He was a pathetic rebounder for his position who got bullied in the low post. Frankly, I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace vs Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Sheed could defend inside. Could you imagine Bosh trying to defend Shaq in the low post? He'd get decapitated and foul out in 10 minutes.

Bosh is without question the worst HOF in recent memory. He never scared you.

A pathetic rebounder who 12th in rebounds in 2006, finished 8th in rebounds in 2007, 8th in rebounds in 2009, and 9th in 2010.

He averaged around 10rpg in his peak, which is pretty elite in terms of rebounding.

In my opinion, rebounding is one of those stats that can kinda be inflated.
I don't doubt Bosh could rebound, but again the only REAL C he played with was an old JO and Rasho. Even though he was listed as a C, he played more PF during his tenured with the Raps. Just no one else on that Raptors was good a rebounding.

Not easy to average 10rpg, especially back in the late 2000s when there were less shot attempts.

Bargnani, who played center, never averaged over 5rpg with the Raptors after Bosh left.

[tsherkin]

Not easy to average 10rpg, especially back in the late 2000s when there were less shot attempts.

Bargnani, who played center, never averaged over 5rpg with the Raptors after Bosh left.

Bargnani was also terrible, and he was especially bad on the offensive glass. He was definitely also one of those guys who chose to stay home making a pseudo-attempt to box out instead of chasing rebounds on the defensive end.

That said, it wasn't that hard to average 10+ in that period of time. It was easier than it had been from like 97-04, for example. 2004-10 (Bosh's time with Toronto), there were 82 player-seasons with a guy playing 40+ GP and averaging 10+ RPG, or an average of about a dozen such seasons per year.

He was just a skinny, perimeter-oriented PF. It was harder for HIM to average 10+ RPG. He wasn't dominant on the offensive glass and he was "only" a solid defensive rebounder, so he only averaged 10+ REB36 twice, and 9.5 one other time. He was, on average, an 8.6 REB36 guy for us, which wasn't horrible for a PF at the time... but we were often actually playing him at the 5, which makes it worse.

To frame that, there were 13 players who managed 10+ RPG 3+ times in that span: Ben Wallace (4), Zach Randolph (5), Emeka Okafor (4), Troy Murphy (4), Shawn Marion (3), David Lee (4), Al Jefferson (3), Dwight Howard (6), Kevin Garnett (4), Tim Duncan (7), Marcus Camby (7), Chris Bosh (3) and Carlos Boozer (4).

So that's not bad. With Bosh, he was 52nd, 69th and 78th (out of 82) in terms of TRB%, which helps reveal that it was more his minutes per game which drove his rebounding average than his actual proficiency as a rebounder.


Just some thoughts. Rebounding was not a major strength for Bosh. It wasn't, like, a CRITICAL weakness for him, but he was very much not the guy you wanted to lean on in that regard.

EDIT: He was, in essence, more of a skinny 6'7 guy with an absurdly long neck to reach his actual height. He was 6'10.25" at the Combine, with a +5.5% wingspan. I have to imagine he'd have been better if his neck had been shorter and he was called a SF instead of a big man.

[Airmiess]

Poor mans KG, which was still very good.

[ballzboyee]

Not easy to average 10rpg, especially back in the late 2000s when there were less shot attempts.

Bargnani, who played center, never averaged over 5rpg with the Raptors after Bosh left.

Bargnani was also terrible, and he was especially bad on the offensive glass. He was definitely also one of those guys who chose to stay home making a pseudo-attempt to box out instead of chasing rebounds on the defensive end.

That said, it wasn't that hard to average 10+ in that period of time. It was easier than it had been from like 97-04, for example. 2004-10 (Bosh's time with Toronto), there were 82 player-seasons with a guy playing 40+ GP and averaging 10+ RPG, or an average of about a dozen such seasons per year.

He was just a skinny, perimeter-oriented PF. It was harder for HIM to average 10+ RPG. He wasn't dominant on the offensive glass and he was "only" a solid defensive rebounder, so he only averaged 10+ REB36 twice, and 9.5 one other time. He was, on average, an 8.6 REB36 guy for us, which wasn't horrible for a PF at the time... but we were often actually playing him at the 5, which makes it worse.

To frame that, there were 13 players who managed 10+ RPG 3+ times in that span: Ben Wallace (4), Zach Randolph (5), Emeka Okafor (4), Troy Murphy (4), Shawn Marion (3), David Lee (4), Al Jefferson (3), Dwight Howard (6), Kevin Garnett (4), Tim Duncan (7), Marcus Camby (7), Chris Bosh (3) and Carlos Boozer (4).

So that's not bad. With Bosh, he was 52nd, 69th and 78th (out of 82) in terms of TRB%, which helps reveal that it was more his minutes per game which drove his rebounding average than his actual proficiency as a rebounder.


Just some thoughts. Rebounding was not a major strength for Bosh. It wasn't, like, a CRITICAL weakness for him, but he was very much not the guy you wanted to lean on in that regard.

EDIT: He was, in essence, more of a skinny 6'7 guy with an absurdly long neck to reach his actual height. He was 6'10.25" at the Combine, with a +5.5% wingspan. I have to imagine he'd have been better if his neck had been shorter and he was called a SF instead of a big man.

Analysis is just improperly framed to fit a questionable narrative. Let's look real numbers with Bosh in a similar role to another star:
Bosh first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 4,776 ; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1,369
Kevin Garnett first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 5,252; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1438
First 7 peak per 100 CB/KG 14.5 to 16.4

On average per game during that span, the difference is +1. But defensive rebounds are the cheese puffs of all stats which is why you see so many stat padding perimeter players camping defensive rebounding numbers that are effectively meaningless. How valuable is Westbrook's defensive rebounds over Steve Adam's clear out for him? Totally overrated stat by people who don't know what's happening. They just look at the box score without context. Offensive rebounds between Bosh and Garnett were almost identical that span, which is where the rubber meets the road in terms of determining who is adding value on the glass.

Bottom line is that when Bosh was in a traditional big man role in Toronto he was easily a 20/10 guy and a very good to great rebounder in the context of his role. When he switched to a stretch 5 in Miami, his rebounding numbers came into line with his role in their offense. Total rebounds also is greatly affected by whether or not a big plays with another big. So when KG got to Boston, even though he was fairly close to his prime, KG's numbers rebounding dropped big time because he shared over 1k floor minutes Kendrick Perkins that year. He's not pumping those number anymore in his new role with Boston.

Reality is that this criticism is confusing Bosh's role with his position. These are not the same thing.

[tsherkin]

Analysis is just improperly framed to fit a questionable narrative. Let's look real numbers with Bosh in a similar role to another star:
Bosh first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 4,776 ; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1,369
Kevin Garnett first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 5,252; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1438
First 7 peak per 100 CB/KG 14.5 to 16.4

On average per game during that span, the difference is +1.

Kevin Garnett started out as a teenager playing SF, and only started half of his rookie year, playing under 29 mpg. He didn't start hitting 10+ RPG until he was playing north of 37 mpg at the PF position. He did also have 12 seasons averaging 10+ REB36, even alongside other guys who rebounded well. It just wasn't the same situation in terms of rebounding proficiency.

Bottom line is that when Bosh was in a traditional big man role in Toronto he was easily a 20/10 guy and a very good to great rebounder in the context of his role.

Nope, that's definitely wrong. He was clearly never a "great" rebounder at any point with us. That's complete and utter nonsense, at odds with literally everything about his time here. He definitely had some solid seasons, but at no point did he do anything which merited the use of the word "great," in a league which showcased other truly great rebounders during the same period.

Toronto was 19th, 19th, 11th, 8th, 4th, 14th and 23rd on the defensive glass during Bosh's tenure here.

We were STARVED for rebounding at the start of his career, Donyell Marshall notwithstanding. Defensive rebounds in particular. They were available, he just didn't dominate in that regard. He was a good offensive rebounder. Not amazing, but pretty good, especially for his frame. A year later, he had 0 excuses. He was the only guy on the team who cleared 6.6 rpg, and he still didn't manage it, while we blew chunks on the defensive boards. He had supplanted Donyell Marshall in the starting lineup, so it's not like they were generally competing with one another.

06 was a decent year for the team. Bosh didn't look any different, but we'd added Charlie V, who helped make up for it some. He was nearly equivalent to CB on the defensive glass.

07, Bosh finally started to get it done at the level we're discussing. 07 and 2010 were his two best years on the defensive boards, and 07 was a good year for the team in that regard.

In 2008, we had our best year on the defensive boards as a team. Bosh had returned to his customary level of production, but we had a SF (Jamario Moon) and a bench C (Rasho Nesterovic) who were helping us make headway in that regard.

A year later in 09, we fell off again, with Moon playing less and the team committing to the horrible waste of skin that was Andrea Bargnani on an NBA court. Bosh actually had a good year, having picked it up a little on the offensive glass and having a solid year on the defensive boards.

Then in 2010, he had another strong year, but the team was garbage.

Ultimately, he rebounded better on the defensive glass when he was used more as a center (which he hated, and which didn't do his body any favors, especially given his build), but wasn't dominant in that regard. And he wasn't a dominant offensive rebounder (albeit far from a bad one), which hurt his overall per-game averages.

[ballzboyee]

Analysis is just improperly framed to fit a questionable narrative. Let's look real numbers with Bosh in a similar role to another star:
Bosh first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 4,776 ; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1,369
Kevin Garnett first 7 seasons: Rebounds -- 5,252; Total Offensive Rebounds -- 1438
First 7 peak per 100 CB/KG 14.5 to 16.4

On average per game during that span, the difference is +1.


Kevin Garnett started out as a teenager playing SF, and only started half of his rookie year, playing under 29 mpg. He didn't start hitting 10+ RPG until he was playing north of 37 mpg at the PF position. He did also have 12 seasons averaging 10+ REB36, even alongside other guys who rebounded well. It just wasn't the same situation in terms of rebounding proficiency.

They were both drafted as teenagers and Garnett actually played more minutes during that seven-year span by quite a bit, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. TRB Per 100 during that time was 13.0 Bosh vs 13.8 Garnett. Basically, less than a whole rebound difference. Unlike Garnett, however, Bosh never played his peak years as a traditional big, so saying he would not have improved like Garnett as a rebounder is just pure unsupported negative speculation on your part. It's in fact likely he would have improved just like Garnett.

Bottom line is that when Bosh was in a traditional big man role in Toronto he was easily a 20/10 guy and a very good to great rebounder in the context of his role.

Nope, that's definitely wrong. He was clearly never a "great" rebounder at any point with us. That's complete and utter nonsense, at odds with literally everything about his time here. He definitely had some solid seasons, but at no point did he do anything which merited the use of the word "great," in a league which showcased other truly great rebounders during the same period.

Toronto was 19th, 19th, 11th, 8th, 4th, 14th and 23rd on the defensive glass during Bosh's tenure here.

We were STARVED for rebounding at the start of his career, Donyell Marshall notwithstanding. Defensive rebounds in particular. They were available, he just didn't dominate in that regard. He was a good offensive rebounder. Not amazing, but pretty good, especially for his frame. A year later, he had 0 excuses. He was the only guy on the team who cleared 6.6 rpg, and he still didn't manage it, while we blew chunks on the defensive boards. He had supplanted Donyell Marshall in the starting lineup, so it's not like they were generally competing with one another.

06 was a decent year for the team. Bosh didn't look any different, but we'd added Charlie V, who helped make up for it some. He was nearly equivalent to CB on the defensive glass.

07, Bosh finally started to get it done at the level we're discussing. 07 and 2010 were his two best years on the defensive boards, and 07 was a good year for the team in that regard.

In 2008, we had our best year on the defensive boards as a team. Bosh had returned to his customary level of production, but we had a SF (Jamario Moon) and a bench C (Rasho Nesterovic) who were helping us make headway in that regard.

A year later in 09, we fell off again, with Moon playing less and the team committing to the horrible waste of skin that was Andrea Bargnani on an NBA court. Bosh actually had a good year, having picked it up a little on the offensive glass and having a solid year on the defensive boards.

Then in 2010, he had another strong year, but the team was garbage.

Ultimately, he rebounded better on the defensive glass when he was used more as a center (which he hated, and which didn't do his body any favors, especially given his build), but wasn't dominant in that regard. And he wasn't a dominant offensive rebounder (albeit far from a bad one), which hurt his overall per-game averages.

We were talking Bosh's individual rebounding compared to other players in similar roles, not team rebounding. These are not even remotely the same metric. I clearly showed you that Bosh's numbers were very similar to KG's over the first 7 years of their careers and then you start bring up irrelevant excuses about KG being a teenager when Bosh was also drafted as teen and team rebounding. They both were 19 their rookie seasons. Bosh played a few more minutes per game his rookie season, but in the big picture over the first seven years Garnett played over 1,100 more minutes and barely out-rebounded Bosh in total rebounds and did not statistically out-rebound him on the offensive glass at all. Per 100 their numbers were practically identical. Not even going to address the team rebounding argument. It doesn't even matter. A single player can only control their production at their position. Bosh's individual numbers were very good to great. To say otherwise is just not fair to him as a player. If that what you want to do, then fine. You guys can the floor with the just incomplete analysis. I can get the numbers per positional set that will show Bosh blows all these other players out of the water that people on here have argued are better than him. But I think I have made my point. Time to end this discussion and so something productive with my day.

[tsherkin]

They were both drafted as teenagers and Garnett actually played more minutes during that seven-year span by quite a bit, so I am not sure what you are trying to say.

I thought the positional note was fairly explicit, to be honest. Playing as a wing versus as a PF/C was a fairly big difference early on.

Unlike Garnett, however, Bosh never played his peak years as a traditional big,

That isn't accurate at all, no. He was explicitly being used as a PF/C for the Raptors. That he didn't play his offensive game in the low post as much doesn't really change that.

You're bringing up Garnett. He took a while to develop, and then come 2000, he hit what was Bosh's individual peak season level, and didn't really drop off from that on the defensive glass. 2000-2016, Garnett was a 27.9% DRB guy. Bosh's career-high was 25.2%, and he only hit 24%+ twice in his career.

Not sure why you're trying to use Garnett as any sort of sensible counterpoint here, because he was very clearly a superior defensive rebounder for the majority of his career, except very early on. Similar on the offensive boards, but then, both of them were perimeter-oriented guys, to be sure.

Meantime, the team portion was to note that even when we were struggling on the DRBs, Bosh didn't do anything particularly special, so the idea that he was a "great" rebounder was just, again, wildly inaccurate. Decent, but far from great. And also notably worse than KG on the defensive boards.

[wegotthabeet]

He wasn’t underrated. Everyone had him as a clear cut top 15 player when he joined the Heatles.

No they didn't. He had ONE all-NBA season (2006-2007) (and he never made the team ever again) up to that point with zero playoff success. He was NEVER considered a top 15 player in the NBA. His pathetic rebounding, poor interior defense, non-existent playmaking, and poor playoff performances cemented that.

When he joined the Heat (remember that he hadn't been all-nba in 3 seasons), was he better than:

Dirk
Duncan
Lebron
Wade
KD
Kobe
Dwight
CP3
Pau
Westbrook
Carmelo
Amare (made three more all-nba after Bosh made it (including being 1st team the one time Bosh ever made an all-nba team))
Manu (take him 100x over Bosh. He actually played well in the playoffs)
LMA (he was always a better player than Bosh was. LMA could actually be focus of an offense and wouldn't wilt under pressure and be a complete zero in the playoffs)
Zbo (again, didn't wilt in the playoffs and could actually bang and rebound unlike Bosh and his pathetic rebounding)
Rose (no one ever takes Bosh over Rose at the time Bosh was in FA)


And that is the top of my head. How can be considered a top 15 player when you hadn't been All-NBA in three years?

He was.

https://aminoapps.com/c/nba/page/blog/top-300-nba-players-2009-2010-55/WJDk_oLLuXukqep61E3BNxdxnK1G4PMGY8Y

There’s tons of list like this from 2009 and 2010. All of them have Bosh as a top 15 player.

Your list is embarrassing and just subjective nonsense. He was better than at least a third of those guys in 2009 easily.

[tsherkin]

Your list is embarrassing and just subjective nonsense. He was better than at least a third of those guys in 2009 easily.

That's an interesting list he had there, isn't it?

Dirk
Duncan
Lebron
Wade
KD
Kobe
Dwight
CP3

Obviously, Bosh was worse than all of these guys. Even Duncan, who was a 19/10.5/3.5 guy with far better defense, despite being into his 30s at that point, and notably load managed.

Pau
Westbrook

Russ was a rookie, so I'd generally give it to Bosh there. He was a 15/5/5 guy, but he was also horrendously inefficient and, of course, made decisions like, well, Russ.

Pau, though, was both a better defender and a better passer, and then also a better playoff performer. That said, he was also in a role more suited to him, as #2 to Kobe. When he was in Memphis, the question of who was better was a tougher call.

Carmelo

This one's tough. Melo had a strong PG next to him, but had a major down year in volume and had a rough year in terms of efficiency. Was a weird year where he was All-NBA 3rd Team but didn't make the AS team, probably because he missed so much time in January.

I'd take Bosh. They had a bunch of similar weaknesses in terms of playmaking and the amount of time they took to jab step my patience to death, but Bosh was actually an efficient scorer and was still better on D.

Amare

I'd take Bosh. Amare didn't do anything special that year, and missed a lot of games. He was also one of the worst defenders in the league. He was more efficient, but he also had Nash. Was a weird year with Shaq on the team, and Alvin Gentry taking over as coach and it was just... eh.

Manu

Nah, I'd take Bosh. I think Manu did better in the role he was filling, but dude was like a 16/4.5/3.5 guy playing under 30 mpg who missed almost half the season. I like Manu, but Bosh was doing more work that year.

LMA Zbo

Nah. LMA was a worse scorer, no better on the glass, not much better as a playmaker... his main claim is he shot so many jumpers that his turnover rate was hella low. He was a roughly 18/7.5 guy posting under league-average efficiency, nothing that special that season. ANd Z-Bo, while a better rebounder, wasn't better at anything else.

Rose

This was rookie Rose. No one sane would take rookie Derrick Rose over 09 Chris Bosh.

[NZB2323]

Your list is embarrassing and just subjective nonsense. He was better than at least a third of those guys in 2009 easily.

That's an interesting list he had there, isn't it?

Dirk
Duncan
Lebron
Wade
KD
Kobe
Dwight
CP3

Obviously, Bosh was worse than all of these guys. Even Duncan, who was a 19/10.5/3.5 guy with far better defense, despite being into his 30s at that point, and notably load managed.

Pau
Westbrook

Russ was a rookie, so I'd generally give it to Bosh there. He was a 15/5/5 guy, but he was also horrendously inefficient and, of course, made decisions like, well, Russ.

Pau, though, was both a better defender and a better passer, and then also a better playoff performer. That said, he was also in a role more suited to him, as #2 to Kobe. When he was in Memphis, the question of who was better was a tougher call.

Carmelo

This one's tough. Melo had a strong PG next to him, but had a major down year in volume and had a rough year in terms of efficiency. Was a weird year where he was All-NBA 3rd Team but didn't make the AS team, probably because he missed so much time in January.

I'd take Bosh. They had a bunch of similar weaknesses in terms of playmaking and the amount of time they took to jab step my patience to death, but Bosh was actually an efficient scorer and was still better on D.

Amare

I'd take Bosh. Amare didn't do anything special that year, and missed a lot of games. He was also one of the worst defenders in the league. He was more efficient, but he also had Nash. Was a weird year with Shaq on the team, and Alvin Gentry taking over as coach and it was just... eh.

Manu

Nah, I'd take Bosh. I think Manu did better in the role he was filling, but dude was like a 16/4.5/3.5 guy playing under 30 mpg who missed almost half the season. I like Manu, but Bosh was doing more work that year.

LMA Zbo

Nah. LMA was a worse scorer, no better on the glass, not much better as a playmaker... his main claim is he shot so many jumpers that his turnover rate was hella low. He was a roughly 18/7.5 guy posting under league-average efficiency, nothing that special that season. ANd Z-Bo, while a better rebounder, wasn't better at anything else.

Rose

This was rookie Rose. No one sane would take rookie Derrick Rose over 09 Chris Bosh.

I think you’re off by a year. Bosh joined the Heat after 2010, where he finished 12th in MVP voting, but that’s certainly an argument for him being a top 15 player. However, Amare played 82 games in 2010 and Rose and Westbrook were sophomores.

[Cavsfansince84]

He was a pathetic rebounder for his position who got bullied in the low post. Frankly, I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace vs Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Sheed could defend inside. Could you imagine Bosh trying to defend Shaq in the low post? He'd get decapitated and foul out in 10 minutes.

Bosh is without question the worst HOF in recent memory. He never scared you.

A pathetic rebounder who 12th in rebounds in 2006, finished 8th in rebounds in 2007, 8th in rebounds in 2009, and 9th in 2010.

He averaged around 10rpg in his peak, which is pretty elite in terms of rebounding.

Well, he isn't a pathetic rebounder, but even just using his Toronto years when he was playing closer to the basket and compare him to Anthony Davis using treb%(which to me is the best thing we have for rebounding), his top %'s were 17.7, 16.4 & 15.5. AD for his career avgs 16.8% and has 4 seasons at 18.8% or higher. Bosh in his Miami years maxed out at 13.6%. So I don't think he was ever really a strong rebounder. Decent-solid but not really good for a center-pf.

[wegotthabeet]

Your list is embarrassing and just subjective nonsense. He was better than at least a third of those guys in 2009 easily.

That's an interesting list he had there, isn't it?

Dirk
Duncan
Lebron
Wade
KD
Kobe
Dwight
CP3

Obviously, Bosh was worse than all of these guys. Even Duncan, who was a 19/10.5/3.5 guy with far better defense, despite being into his 30s at that point, and notably load managed.

Pau
Westbrook

Russ was a rookie, so I'd generally give it to Bosh there. He was a 15/5/5 guy, but he was also horrendously inefficient and, of course, made decisions like, well, Russ.

Pau, though, was both a better defender and a better passer, and then also a better playoff performer. That said, he was also in a role more suited to him, as #2 to Kobe. When he was in Memphis, the question of who was better was a tougher call.

Carmelo

This one's tough. Melo had a strong PG next to him, but had a major down year in volume and had a rough year in terms of efficiency. Was a weird year where he was All-NBA 3rd Team but didn't make the AS team, probably because he missed so much time in January.

I'd take Bosh. They had a bunch of similar weaknesses in terms of playmaking and the amount of time they took to jab step my patience to death, but Bosh was actually an efficient scorer and was still better on D.

Amare

I'd take Bosh. Amare didn't do anything special that year, and missed a lot of games. He was also one of the worst defenders in the league. He was more efficient, but he also had Nash. Was a weird year with Shaq on the team, and Alvin Gentry taking over as coach and it was just... eh.

Manu

Nah, I'd take Bosh. I think Manu did better in the role he was filling, but dude was like a 16/4.5/3.5 guy playing under 30 mpg who missed almost half the season. I like Manu, but Bosh was doing more work that year.

LMA Zbo

Nah. LMA was a worse scorer, no better on the glass, not much better as a playmaker... his main claim is he shot so many jumpers that his turnover rate was hella low. He was a roughly 18/7.5 guy posting under league-average efficiency, nothing that special that season. ANd Z-Bo, while a better rebounder, wasn't better at anything else.

Rose

This was rookie Rose. No one sane would take rookie Derrick Rose over 09 Chris Bosh.

Yeah he was borderline top ten and definitely top 20. I would have put him right around 15 at the time.

[TheGeneral99]

He was a pathetic rebounder for his position who got bullied in the low post. Frankly, I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace vs Chris Bosh any day of the week. At least Sheed could defend inside. Could you imagine Bosh trying to defend Shaq in the low post? He'd get decapitated and foul out in 10 minutes.

Bosh is without question the worst HOF in recent memory. He never scared you.

A pathetic rebounder who 12th in rebounds in 2006, finished 8th in rebounds in 2007, 8th in rebounds in 2009, and 9th in 2010.

He averaged around 10rpg in his peak, which is pretty elite in terms of rebounding.

Well, he isn't a pathetic rebounder, but even just using his Toronto years when he was playing closer to the basket and compare him to Anthony Davis using treb%(which to me is the best thing we have for rebounding), his top %'s were 17.7, 16.4 & 15.5. AD for his career avgs 16.8% and has 4 seasons at 18.8% or higher. Bosh in his Miami years maxed out at 13.6%. So I don't think he was ever really a strong rebounder. Decent-solid but not really good for a center-pf.

Again, it's fair to say that Bosh isn't an elite rebounder, but he's definitely a very good rebounder who could hold his own in that category. He doesn't reach the levels of KG, Duncan, Dwight, Love etc. but he's in the same category as guys like Aldridge, Webber, Pau, Boozer, Amare etc.

[tsherkin]

I think you’re off by a year. Bosh joined the Heat after 2010, where he finished 12th in MVP voting, but that’s certainly an argument for him being a top 15 player. However, Amare played 82 games in 2010 and Rose and Westbrook were sophomores.

The post was discussing 09, which was Bosh's second-last season with the Raptors, so that's what I was using for point of comparison.

[HMFFL]

He wasn’t underrated. Everyone had him as a clear cut top 15 player when he joined the Heatles.

No they didn't. He had ONE all-NBA season (2006-2007) (and he never made the team ever again) up to that point with zero playoff success. He was NEVER considered a top 15 player in the NBA. His pathetic rebounding, poor interior defense, non-existent playmaking, and poor playoff performances cemented that.

When he joined the Heat (remember that he hadn't been all-nba in 3 seasons), was he better than:

[/b]?

In the 09-10 season before he left for Miami, Chris Bosh finished tied for 12th in MVP voting.

He was tied with Chauncey Billups, Stephen Jackson, and Joe Johnson.

So, therefore, according to the MVP rankings, Chris Bosh was a top 15 player. Stephen Jackson was the only one not to make the all-star team. Joe Johnson was the only one to make an All NBA team.

[TheGOATRises007]

Always said if the Bulls would have gotten Bosh and Boozer went to Miami, the Bulls win the 2011 title

With his propensity for folding in the playoffs against physicality? Unlikely.

He destroyed the Bulls in the ECF

[ballzboyee]

He wasn’t underrated. Everyone had him as a clear cut top 15 player when he joined the Heatles.

No they didn't. He had ONE all-NBA season (2006-2007) (and he never made the team ever again) up to that point with zero playoff success. He was NEVER considered a top 15 player in the NBA. His pathetic rebounding, poor interior defense, non-existent playmaking, and poor playoff performances cemented that.

When he joined the Heat (remember that he hadn't been all-nba in 3 seasons), was he better than:

[/b]?

I mean, what's the point? You realize that Bosh signed a max deal with Miami before Lebron and LeDecision, right? Did Stephen Jackson sign a max deal in 2010? Okay, I rest my case. I just think it is hilarious that you guys act like Bosh was not all that when Vegas already jumped Miami to favorites to win the East BEFORE Lebron even joined the team. Then, you have the infamous Lebron shouting to the crowd, "Not one... not two.. not one..." speech. I seem to recall there three players on that stage that day and Bosh was on of them. They trying change history in this post right now, but we ain't gonna let them forget, fam. They wanna act like Bosh was a nobody now because my man got blood clots, had to retire, and couldn't show out post-Lebron.

Watch on YouTube

[mhd]

No they didn't. He had ONE all-NBA season (2006-2007) (and he never made the team ever again) up to that point with zero playoff success. He was NEVER considered a top 15 player in the NBA. His pathetic rebounding, poor interior defense, non-existent playmaking, and poor playoff performances cemented that.

When he joined the Heat (remember that he hadn't been all-nba in 3 seasons), was he better than:

[/b]?

I mean, what's the point? You realize that Bosh signed a max deal with Miami before Lebron and LeDecision, right? Did Stephen Jackson sign a max deal in 2010? Okay, I rest my case. I just think it is hilarious that you guys act like Bosh was not all that when Vegas already jumped Miami to favorites to win the East BEFORE Lebron even joined the team. Then, you have the infamous Lebron shouting to the crowd, "Not one... not two.. not one..." speech. I seem to recall there three players on that stage that day and Bosh was on of them. They trying change history in this post right now, but we ain't gonna let them forget, fam. They wanna act like Bosh was a nobody now because my man got blood clots, had to retire, and couldn't show out post-Lebron.

Watch on YouTube

Was he going to show out by getting dominated in the post by scrubs by Roy Hibbert? Or how about scoring zero points in a game 7 in the Finals against the Spurs when the opposing defenses were focused on Lebron & Wade? LMA made 5 all-nba selections his whole career vs Bosh's one selection. Please name me ONE instance in Bosh's whole career as impressive as LMA against Dwight, Harden, and the Rockets in the 1st round? Heck, name me one instance better than Z-Bo leading Memphis as an 8 seed upsetting Duncan and the #1 seeded Spurs? Z-Bo averaged 22, 9, 3 assists, 1 steal, and .5 blocks while shooting 50% as the focus of the offense. When has Bosh EVER done anything like that?